What 343 Excel at and what they need to work on.

I decided that I wanted to make this thread in order to provide constructive criticism into 343’s writing style and techniques, praising the positives of their work, along with what they need to work on. The word “constructive” in “constructive criticism”. I don’t want to see extremely negative, hostile comments on 343 or their work, or anything about the behind the scenes development, Microsoft or anything of the sort, nor should anyone call out anyone specifically (most of you know what exactly am I referring to). And note that this doesn’t just apply to Halo 5, but all their work thus far.

To the mods, I request the thread be closed if anything gets out of hand (say any of the stuff that I mentioned above does happen).

I’ll start us off.
I think that 343’s strongest area is their attention to detail, especially in regards to the lore and story. This is quite evident when looking into Canon Fodder, the Mission Logs in Halo 5, Halo 4 and the Anniversary Additions of the remastered Halo games. I love seeing the effects of a glassed planet and how that has effected the people living there. I loved hearing the alien names for the Covenant races. It fleshes them out a lot more and this kind of thing makes the universe feel real, a living, breathing space. Even in One of the Sprint Videos a writer points out how the size of the Composer is not to scale. This is the attention to detail that I have and will continue to praise 343 for, and hope they continue this trend in the future.

On the other hand, their weakest area is, for the most part, the larger scale story. This can be seen in both Halo 5: Guardians and Halo: Hunters in the Dark, and Halo 4 to a certain extent. With Halo 4, while the Chief and Cortana subplot was the strongest part of the game, it’s arguable that the weakest part was its villain and overarching plot (I personally did enjoy it, but I know many others that didn’t). With Hunters in the Dark, its main plot was to stop the activation of the Halo Array in 2555. Not only was this unnecessary but also took away much from the more interesting parts of the novel, and the villain was rather one dimensional (the novel would have worked better as a Sangheili/Human Exploration Team Exploring the Ark when they slowly come to realise something is watching them, while also have a few people (ONI) being aware of the UNSC Rubicon and attempting find out what happened to it. This would have been a far better story than what we got). With Halo 5, to put it simply (people have said a lot about it, so let’s not dwell too much on it), it undermines several established themes of Halo 4 and the expanded fiction in order to shift to plot into something that has (arguably) had no build up to it (unless you look at Halo: Legends - Origins, and even the new…). I’m also… Bitter about Jul’s demise, but I won’t get into that.

One thing I see as a double edge sword here is 343’s inter-connectivity with the fiction, how every piece of fiction has several connections to previous fiction and hence the overall lore. While this is something I as a fan of the novels, canon fodder and other pieces of fiction, I do see this as an issue for those new to the fiction. One notable example of this is the Ur-Didact in Halo 4, where we are shown this character which contradicts his prior depiction in the Halo 3 terminals and nothing in-game properly explained the reason behind his motivations. The Forerunner Saga reconciled this, but that’s the problem: one had to rely on external fiction to explain the Didact’s motivations. I think 343 should attempt to compromise this, to find a middle ground between the lore fans and newcomers. I think both a previously on Halo prologue, or a long introductory prologue should be present, along with an in-game codex similarly with Mass Effect. Bonus points for narration. I think the Universe entries here on waypoint could serve as a good foundation for this. And please have this in-game. stares at a certain other game

Well, that’s it for me for now. What constructive criticism/advice would you give to 343.

I don’t think I’m qualified to judge. I actually loved the -Yoink- out of that campaign, and thought the story was absolutely momentous if a little incoherent. Having been obsessively reading through any scrap of EU I could find beforehand, I immediately felt at home in the boots of Osiris, knowing as much as there was to know about all the characters involved. Speaking of which, I personally find 343’s reliance on external fiction to be very engaging. Rather than just having everything spoon-fed to me on my couch, I like piecing things together myself and creating my own interpretation of the universe.

Cortana’s motivation is another aspect that people often criticize, and it’s something I’ve only ever really looked at and thought - these are the same saps that cry at the end of Halo 4, right? They’re just Cortana fanboys. All you have to do is look at Halsey to see that Cortana’s basically doing what Halsey did to the Spartans to the entirety of known space. It seems shallow, but Halsey and Cortana are effectively the same person.

But if there’s one thought of mine I want to contribute to this discussion, it’s this - we don’t know the full story yet. We don’t know how the things we’ve seen in Escalation, and in the novels, and in Halo 4 and 5 will be used to tie into the ending of the Reclaimer saga. Halo 6 has been in development for longer than Halo 5 was - I believe that’s an indication of a mammoth campaign, that’s bound to tell an absolutely mammoth story in which I believe there will be room to make everything come together and just click for the fanbase. We’re not really in a position to judge yet - we might be with another franchise, but not Halo. The story of Halo has always been a level apart.

As stated 343 is good with details but even the they can forget details like an the Map Raid on Apex 7 on the fuel tanks stand " when alam bell ring" so they have forgotten an “R” but I think its great that they have take the time to even make an readable sign even noone (excluding me)will read it.
I also like this small lamp over the visor of the AirAssault helmet in fact I like the whole new AirAssault concept.
To judge about the campaign is hard so I wont do it.
The Req system has it problems because mystery things are always frustating so I hope in Halo6 we get separate weapon armor packs.
The 3D printing idea is interesting and for someone like me its just heaven because I can finally have my own AirAssault spartan( Yes I like this armor)
At all I like Halo5 and hope we will get more lore and stuff in the following months.
Personnal views are welcome.

> 2533274927592272;2:
> I don’t think I’m qualified to judge. I actually loved the -Yoink- out of that campaign, and thought the story was absolutely momentous if a little incoherent. Having been obsessively reading through any scrap of EU I could find beforehand, I immediately felt at home in the boots of Osiris, knowing as much as there was to know about all the characters involved. Speaking of which, I personally find 343’s reliance on external fiction to be very engaging. Rather than just having everything spoon-fed to me on my couch, I like piecing things together myself and creating my own interpretation of the universe.
>
> Cortana’s motivation is another aspect that people often criticize, and it’s something I’ve only ever really looked at and thought - these are the same saps that cry at the end of Halo 4, right? They’re just Cortana fanboys. All you have to do is look at Halsey to see that Cortana’s basically doing what Halsey did to the Spartans to the entirety of known space. It seems shallow, but Halsey and Cortana are effectively the same person.
>
> But if there’s one thought of mine I want to contribute to this discussion, it’s this - we don’t know the full story yet. We don’t know how the things we’ve seen in Escalation, and in the novels, and in Halo 4 and 5 will be used to tie into the ending of the Reclaimer saga. Halo 6 has been in development for longer than Halo 5 was - I believe that’s an indication of a mammoth campaign, that’s bound to tell an absolutely mammoth story in which I believe there will be room to make everything come together and just click for the fanbase. We’re not really in a position to judge yet - we might be with another franchise, but not Halo. The story of Halo has always been a level apart.

I’m enjoy the expanded universe immensely and the interconnectivity between the expanded fiction and the games but, from the perspective of someone who hasn’t read the novels or kept up with anything shouldn’t suffer for it. As I’ve mentioned, give them something explaining what they need to know and give the, the option of learning more about the universe other than just reading the novels. You enjoy 343’s reliance of the novels from the perspective of someone who reads them, however you do not consider the perspectives of others who are unable or have no intention to read the expanded fiction, in fact it sounds as though you are berating them for it.

And you’ve just insulted everyone who was a fan of Cortana, anyone who had enjoyed Halo 4’s ending and appreciated the work and effort 343 the writers had placed into developing a well crafted scene, a scene that was heavily undermined by Cortana’s “resurrection”. I’m not going to argue whether Cortana is basically doing what Halsey was doing or not. This isn’t the place to discuss it, and I’m not in the mood to discuss Cortana in Halo 5.

That isn’t exactly criticism. Of course we don’t know the full story, Halo 5 just released last year and we won’t have any significant advances on it until a novel/comic/TV series or Halo 6 gets released. Criticising an episode of Game of Thrones because you have to wait a week isn’t really criticism, or at least, isn’t constructive criticism, or a valid one at that. However, it can be see no so criticism if you’re criticising how Halo 5 didn’t have too many ties with the established fiction.

You are right about 343’s attention to detail! They do a lot to make their Halo’s feel…Halo esque :slight_smile:

For instance, when you are inactive for too long on multiplayer, that ‘Wake Up, John’ message is just so cool no matter how minor it is.

It’s little references like this that 4, MCC and Guardians are filled with it. Love that!

I stopped reading after u said there attention to detail.They didn’t get emiles armor right or the way the arbiter and his elites looked from halo 3 amongst other things.So ya there goes attention to detail

> 2533274830166194;6:
> I stopped reading after u said there attention to detail.They didn’t get emiles armor right or the way the arbiter and his elites looked from halo 3 amongst other things.So ya there goes attention to detail

The appearance of the elites changes constantly each game. Plus the Arbiter simply has a new armor since his return to sanghelios. It’s in the canon between 4 and 5 as well.

> 2533274808539505;7:
> > 2533274830166194;6:
> > I stopped reading after u said there attention to detail.They didn’t get emiles armor right or the way the arbiter and his elites looked from halo 3 amongst other things.So ya there goes attention to detail
>
>
> The appearance of the elites changes constantly each game. Plus the Arbiter simply has a new armor since his return to sanghelios. It’s in the canon between 4 and 5 as well.

New skin color and texture as well apparently and I knew about his new armor and like it I don’t like how there is no distinction between the SoS elites and jul mdamas faction

> 2533274830166194;8:
> > 2533274808539505;7:
> > > 2533274830166194;6:
> > > I stopped reading after u said there attention to detail.They didn’t get emiles armor right or the way the arbiter and his elites looked from halo 3 amongst other things.So ya there goes attention to detail
> >
> >
> > The appearance of the elites changes constantly each game. Plus the Arbiter simply has a new armor since his return to sanghelios. It’s in the canon between 4 and 5 as well.
>
>
> New skin color and texture as well apparently and I knew about his new armor and like it I don’t like how there is no distinction between the SoS elites and jul mdamas faction

I dunno, it’s pretty clear that the SOS elites wear red armor whereas the Covenant Remnant elites wear the classic dark blue colors. But if you say you can’t see it, then there is not much I can say to make you see it I guess haha.

If you just keep an open mind, you see lots of attention to detail I reckon.I believe people sometimes forget to be amazed. Look at what we are coming from! The Sanhelios missions are beyond gorgeous!

> 2533274830166194;6:
> I stopped reading after u said there attention to detail.They didn’t get emiles armor right or the way the arbiter and his elites looked from halo 3 amongst other things.So ya there goes attention to detail

I was speaking from a writing/narrative perspective, NOT from a visual standpoint. If you REALLY want to go and discuss visuals which are entirely subject to artistic license, engine limitations and budget, I could always complain how utterly inconsistent the UNSC Magnetic Acceleration Cannon is.

This thread revolves around criticising 343 from a writing standpoint, not multiplayer, game assets and artistic license or anything of the sort. I thought that was rather clear in the OP.

> 2533274926227685;1:
> I decided that I wanted to make this thread in order to provide constructive criticism into 343’s writing style and techniques, praising the positives of their work, along with what they need to work on. The word “constructive” in “constructive criticism”. I don’t want to see extremely negative, hostile comments on 343 or their work, or anything about the behind the scenes development, Microsoft or anything of the sort, nor should anyone call out anyone specifically (most of you know what exactly am I referring to). And note that this doesn’t just apply to Halo 5, but all their work thus far.
>
> To the mods, I request the thread be closed if anything gets out of hand (say any of the stuff that I mentioned above does happen).
>
> I’ll start us off.
> I think that 343’s strongest area is their attention to detail, especially in regards to the lore and story. This is quite evident when looking into Canon Fodder, the Mission Logs in Halo 5, Halo 4 and the Anniversary Additions of the remastered Halo games. I love seeing the effects of a glassed planet and how that has effected the people living there. I loved hearing the alien names for the Covenant races. It fleshes them out a lot more and this kind of thing makes the universe feel real, a living, breathing space. Even in One of the Sprint Videos a writer points out how the size of the Composer is not to scale. This is the attention to detail that I have and will continue to praise 343 for, and hope they continue this trend in the future.
>
> On the other hand, their weakest area is, for the most part, the larger scale story. This can be seen in both Halo 5: Guardians and Halo: Hunters in the Dark, and Halo 4 to a certain extent. With Halo 4, while the Chief and Cortana subplot was the strongest part of the game, it’s arguable that the weakest part was its villain and overarching plot (I personally did enjoy it, but I know many others that didn’t). With Hunters in the Dark, its main plot was to stop the activation of the Halo Array in 2555. Not only was this unnecessary but also took away much from the more interesting parts of the novel, and the villain was rather one dimensional (the novel would have worked better as a Sangheili/Human Exploration Team Exploring the Ark when they slowly come to realise something is watching them, while also have a few people (ONI) being aware of the UNSC Rubicon and attempting find out what happened to it. This would have been a far better story than what we got). With Halo 5, to put it simply (people have said a lot about it, so let’s not dwell too much on it), it undermines several established themes of Halo 4 and the expanded fiction in order to shift to plot into something that has (arguably) had no build up to it (unless you look at Halo: Legends - Origins, and even the new…). I’m also… Bitter about Jul’s demise, but I won’t get into that.
>
> One thing I see as a double edge sword here is 343’s inter-connectivity with the fiction, how every piece of fiction has several connections to previous fiction and hence the overall lore. While this is something I as a fan of the novels, canon fodder and other pieces of fiction, I do see this as an issue for those new to the fiction. One notable example of this is the Ur-Didact in Halo 4, where we are shown this character which contradicts his prior depiction in the Halo 3 terminals and nothing in-game properly explained the reason behind his motivations. The Forerunner Saga reconciled this, but that’s the problem: one had to rely on external fiction to explain the Didact’s motivations. I think 343 should attempt to compromise this, to find a middle ground between the lore fans and newcomers. I think both a previously on Halo prologue, or a long introductory prologue should be present, along with an in-game codex similarly with Mass Effect. Bonus points for narration. I think the Universe entries here on waypoint could serve as a good foundation for this. And please have this in-game. stares at a certain other game
>
> Well, that’s it for me for now. What constructive criticism/advice would you give to 343.

Couldn’t agree more with this

> 2533274926227685;1:
> I decided that I wanted to make this thread in order to provide constructive criticism into 343’s writing style and techniques, praising the positives of their work, along with what they need to work on. The word “constructive” in “constructive criticism”. I don’t want to see extremely negative, hostile comments on 343 or their work, or anything about the behind the scenes development, Microsoft or anything of the sort, nor should anyone call out anyone specifically (most of you know what exactly am I referring to). And note that this doesn’t just apply to Halo 5, but all their work thus far.
>
> To the mods, I request the thread be closed if anything gets out of hand (say any of the stuff that I mentioned above does happen).
>
> I’ll start us off.
> I think that 343’s strongest area is their attention to detail, especially in regards to the lore and story. This is quite evident when looking into Canon Fodder, the Mission Logs in Halo 5, Halo 4 and the Anniversary Additions of the remastered Halo games. I love seeing the effects of a glassed planet and how that has effected the people living there. I loved hearing the alien names for the Covenant races. It fleshes them out a lot more and this kind of thing makes the universe feel real, a living, breathing space. Even in One of the Sprint Videos a writer points out how the size of the Composer is not to scale. This is the attention to detail that I have and will continue to praise 343 for, and hope they continue this trend in the future.
>
> On the other hand, their weakest area is, for the most part, the larger scale story. This can be seen in both Halo 5: Guardians and Halo: Hunters in the Dark, and Halo 4 to a certain extent. With Halo 4, while the Chief and Cortana subplot was the strongest part of the game, it’s arguable that the weakest part was its villain and overarching plot (I personally did enjoy it, but I know many others that didn’t). With Hunters in the Dark, its main plot was to stop the activation of the Halo Array in 2555. Not only was this unnecessary but also took away much from the more interesting parts of the novel, and the villain was rather one dimensional (the novel would have worked better as a Sangheili/Human Exploration Team Exploring the Ark when they slowly come to realise something is watching them, while also have a few people (ONI) being aware of the UNSC Rubicon and attempting find out what happened to it. This would have been a far better story than what we got). With Halo 5, to put it simply (people have said a lot about it, so let’s not dwell too much on it), it undermines several established themes of Halo 4 and the expanded fiction in order to shift to plot into something that has (arguably) had no build up to it (unless you look at Halo: Legends - Origins, and even the new…). I’m also… Bitter about Jul’s demise, but I won’t get into that.
>
> One thing I see as a double edge sword here is 343’s inter-connectivity with the fiction, how every piece of fiction has several connections to previous fiction and hence the overall lore. While this is something I as a fan of the novels, canon fodder and other pieces of fiction, I do see this as an issue for those new to the fiction. One notable example of this is the Ur-Didact in Halo 4, where we are shown this character which contradicts his prior depiction in the Halo 3 terminals and nothing in-game properly explained the reason behind his motivations. The Forerunner Saga reconciled this, but that’s the problem: one had to rely on external fiction to explain the Didact’s motivations. I think 343 should attempt to compromise this, to find a middle ground between the lore fans and newcomers. I think both a previously on Halo prologue, or a long introductory prologue should be present, along with an in-game codex similarly with Mass Effect. Bonus points for narration. I think the Universe entries here on waypoint could serve as a good foundation for this. And please have this in-game. stares at a certain other game
>
> Well, that’s it for me for now. What constructive criticism/advice would you give to 343.

While I do feel the inter-connectivity can be problematic, I’ll be introducing someone to Halo soon, I’m not just going to introduce them to the games, I’m gonna introduce them to EVERYTHING - so basically, if you want to be a Halo fan, I highly value experiencing every possible aspect of it.

Another issue with 343’s writing is how they tend to focus a significant amount of “screen time” on certain groups in the universe while at the same time ignoring other groups in the fiction. The most notable cases are the Spartan-IIIs being ignored (for Gamma Company it makes no sense considering how the Achilles Armour exists) along with the several different races of the Covenant, most notably the Jiralhanae and the Yanme’e, with the Spartan-IVs and IIs, and the Sangheili (respectively) are taking up a extremely large amount of “screen time” in comparison to the two other “groups” I had just mentioned. The same can be said about the use of the Forerunners as a recurring theme, which is an issue, especially in excess. We have an entire galaxy’s worth of races and factions and yet it feels as though the galaxy is only composed of Spartan-IIs and IVs, the Sangheili and the Forerunners.

One more thing I want to bring up for now which connects to my above point is how, looking back at previously established fiction, the vast (vast) majority of media had a distinct focus on the Sangheili while we had two novels exploring the perspective of the Great Schism from the San’Shyuum. Most notably however, we haven’t had anythign on the Schism from the perspective of the Jiralhanae, one of the most distinct parts of the Great Schism itself. So far we haven’t had anything exploring their perspective of the Great Schsim or why they chose to follow the San’Shyuum, specifically Truth, from THEIR perspective. In fact, almost every depiction of the Jiralhanae post Schism has depicted them in a negative light with very little exploring the morality behind the Jiralhanae.

> 2533274926227685;4:
> > 2533274927592272;2:
> > I don’t think I’m qualified to judge. I actually loved the -Yoink- out of that campaign, and thought the story was absolutely momentous if a little incoherent. Having been obsessively reading through any scrap of EU I could find beforehand, I immediately felt at home in the boots of Osiris, knowing as much as there was to know about all the characters involved. Speaking of which, I personally find 343’s reliance on external fiction to be very engaging. Rather than just having everything spoon-fed to me on my couch, I like piecing things together myself and creating my own interpretation of the universe.
> >
> > Cortana’s motivation is another aspect that people often criticize, and it’s something I’ve only ever really looked at and thought - these are the same saps that cry at the end of Halo 4, right? They’re just Cortana fanboys. All you have to do is look at Halsey to see that Cortana’s basically doing what Halsey did to the Spartans to the entirety of known space. It seems shallow, but Halsey and Cortana are effectively the same person.
> >
> > But if there’s one thought of mine I want to contribute to this discussion, it’s this - we don’t know the full story yet. We don’t know how the things we’ve seen in Escalation, and in the novels, and in Halo 4 and 5 will be used to tie into the ending of the Reclaimer saga. Halo 6 has been in development for longer than Halo 5 was - I believe that’s an indication of a mammoth campaign, that’s bound to tell an absolutely mammoth story in which I believe there will be room to make everything come together and just click for the fanbase. We’re not really in a position to judge yet - we might be with another franchise, but not Halo. The story of Halo has always been a level apart.
>
>
> I’m enjoy the expanded universe immensely and the interconnectivity between the expanded fiction and the games but, from the perspective of someone who hasn’t read the novels or kept up with anything shouldn’t suffer for it. As I’ve mentioned, give them something explaining what they need to know and give the, the option of learning more about the universe other than just reading the novels. You enjoy 343’s reliance of the novels from the perspective of someone who reads them, however you do not consider the perspectives of others who are unable or have no intention to read the expanded fiction, in fact it sounds as though you are berating them for it.
>
> And you’ve just insulted everyone who was a fan of Cortana, anyone who had enjoyed Halo 4’s ending and appreciated the work and effort 343 the writers had placed into developing a well crafted scene, a scene that was heavily undermined by Cortana’s “resurrection”. I’m not going to argue whether Cortana is basically doing what Halsey was doing or not. This isn’t the place to discuss it, and I’m not in the mood to discuss Cortana in Halo 5.
>
> That isn’t exactly criticism. Of course we don’t know the full story, Halo 5 just released last year and we won’t have any significant advances on it until a novel/comic/TV series or Halo 6 gets released. Criticising an episode of Game of Thrones because you have to wait a week isn’t really criticism, or at least, isn’t constructive criticism, or a valid one at that. However, it can be see no so criticism if you’re criticising how Halo 5 didn’t have too many ties with the established fiction.

Yah the whole cortana thing is since the halo 5 release that which shall not be named.