WHAT 343, AMAZINGLY, FAILED TO UNDERSTAND

Games Other Halo
1

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not create alternate accounts to bypass forum bans. Alternate accounts will be permanently banned, and offending users will be subject to both temporary and permanent bans.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

343 failed to understand the very simple heart of the problem. The population for the Halo series is mostly attributable to the dislike of Halo: Reach.

People who are new to the series, or don’t have the 10 years experience in Halo, are always very inclined to base the population drop on some other factors (ie- there’s more competition in the market, better games are out, people are sick of Halo, etc.) or whatever factors they attribute the decline to.

While these are all possible causes, and indeed have probably had mionor impacts across the board, anyone who has the played all the games a lot, with other people who have all spent a lot of time around the game and the community, knows the real reason.

343’s failure to realize this shows the same misunderstandings common among those new to the series, and can be directly related to the even worse than Reach numbers the game is pulling now.

The real reason, and what I am absolutely certain the most common reason that would be given among players of Halo 1-3 that stopped playing, if you could ask them all, and no it wasn’t because NHL 2011 was a better shooter than Halo, the REAL REASON is that they didn’t like Reach. They didn’t like Reach, their friends didn’t like Reach. It was a weird and poor deviation from standard Halo and it wasn’t a good game. It had tons of randomness and problems, poor map designs…everything that was wrong with that game is what led to the Halo series’ population plummet.

New players, younger players, and apparently the developers themselves attribute the decline in Halo’s population to all this big list of various reasons, but it is very obvious to the real long-time players, and if you ask just about anyone of them, they will tell you from experience, from seeing their friends list fragment, from hearing their friends’ and other player’s opinions while going through the FALL of Halo.

People who are the longtime players know qutie well that Reach made Halo unpopular, because it was a terrible Halo game.

Anyone who had a friends list comprised of mostly people they had met playing Halo can tell you this is what happened, and that their friends quit for CoD or whatever online game of choice, because they just didn’t like palying Reach.

Any of these people can tell you why the population for this game has suffered. So please, next time you see one, instead of baiting them about how you’re now as good as they are, or makign fun of them, or yelling ADAPT at them, just try calmly askign them their opinion (do not startle them, for they are a sensitive and angry bunch atm), but ask quietly and see why they think Halo’s population is so bad.

TL;DR

Reach failed,not because NHL 2011 was that much better than Halo: Reach,therefore Halo 4 was bound to fail. And if anybody at 343 had bothered to listen to or ask anybody who knows, they could have avoided this second disgrace to the franchise, and the second installment of widespread disappointment.

A disgrace in gameplay is subjective on an individual basis, but the disgrace this game is to the series’ population numbers are undeniable.

2

This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.

That being said, you cannot discount the fact that the competition has gotten more fierce. I distinctly remember that when Halo 3 came out, every game by every other developer was going the be the “Halo Killer”. They were all out to get Halo and have had some degree of success, but they failed to “kill” halo despite their best efforts.

Online population stats do not tell the whole story. They were calculated differently with Halo 3 and cannot be compared to Reach or Halo 4 numbers.

Bottom line, when Microsoft gets unhappy with online population counts they will either replace 343i or just fold up the tent (as they did with FASA and the MechWarrior series).

No amount of rhetoric in the forums will be the decisive factor in what happens with matchmaking. The only real vote you have is in your wallet (and I’m talking about money, not that other thing :wink:

3

> This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.
>
> That being said, you cannot discount the fact that the competition has gotten more fierce. I distinctly remember that when Halo 3 came out, every game by every other developer was going the be the “Halo Killer”. They were all out to get Halo and have had some degree of success, but they failed to “kill” halo despite their best efforts.
>
> Online population stats do not tell the whole story. They were calculated differently with Halo 3 and cannot be compared to Reach or Halo 4 numbers.
>
> Bottom line, when Microsoft gets unhappy with online population counts they will either replace 343i or just fold up the tent (as they did with FASA and the MechWarrior series).
>
> No amount of rhetoric in the forums will be the decisive factor in what happens with matchmaking. The only real vote you have is in your wallet (and I’m talking about money, not that other thing :wink:

i agree with you Master Of Unicorns

4

> This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.
>
> That being said, you cannot discount the fact that the competition has gotten more fierce. I distinctly remember that when Halo 3 came out, every game by every other developer was going the be the “Halo Killer”. They were all out to get Halo and have had some degree of success, but they failed to “kill” halo despite their best efforts.
>
> Online population stats do not tell the whole story. They were calculated differently with Halo 3 and cannot be compared to Reach or Halo 4 numbers.
>
> Bottom line, when Microsoft gets unhappy with online population counts they will either replace 343i or just fold up the tent (as they did with FASA and the MechWarrior series).
>
> No amount of rhetoric in the forums will be the decisive factor in what happens with matchmaking. The only real vote you have is in your wallet (and I’m talking about money, not that other thing :wink:

2007 is considered the strongest year for Games in this generation, so that blows your point straight out of the water. Not to mention the number of games that came out 1-2 years after, Yet Halo 3 remained vastly populated. It was also during the high point of the Xbox vs PS3 vs Wii, the 360 sales were also much much lower compared to now.

People really need to stop pretending that Halo 3 had no competitive, it had massive amounts of competitive. It’s absurd to think otherwise.

5

A In-game visible ranking system would help out a lot.

6

What I think (not so much a thought anymore, more of a “this is what happened”) is that 343 is creating a new Halo franchise for a whole new audience.

Think about it. Halo CE, 2, even 3 players are now old. I started Halo CE in middle school, so im still a “young” fan of Halo at age 21. The people that played Halo CE high school or Halo 3 in college probably no longer play or dont have the time or passion for Halo like they use too.

Teenagers and early 20s are what 343 is aiming at now. They are working on a franchise directed at a whole new generation of players. However this new generation of players STINK!

They dont have patience for a game anymore. They want a game were you can get 50 kills and 50 deaths in a matter of 3 mins. A game like Counter Strike could never ever be the pinnacle of online shooters with the new generation of gamers like it use to be.

This is what 343 is aiming at. Not old fans that may or may not be playing this, but new comers. A new generation to support this franchise like the old generation did with HCE-3. I dont like it, I dont agree with 343’s approach, but it is what it is.

7

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not create alternate accounts to bypass forum bans. Alternate accounts will be permanently banned, and offending users will be subject to both temporary and permanent bans.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Indeed, people can repeat whatever reasons they think or that they’ve heard.

But I was actually there, and I remember.

8

You lost me OP. What in the world does NHL 11 have to do with Halo Reach or Halo 4?

9

Reach wasn’t a terrible game. It still felt like Halo. It still had Elites. It didn’t have a broken JIP system that you can’t turn off.

10

> You lost me OP. What in the world does NHL 11 have to do with Halo Reach or Halo 4?

Halo 4 lost to FIFA and people say its because FIFA is one of the most popular Sport games ever. OP did a bad comparison.

11

> This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.

HAHA WHAT? Microsoft get it’s money from Xbox Live time? What on earth does that mean? When people play Halo 4 over Xbox Live it COSTS Microsoft money to keep those servers up. “Xbox Live Time”, thats a new one. Microsoft gets almost every penny for sales. Do you know what a developer and a publisher is? A publisher gives the developer a set amount of money (a budget). This budget includes stuff like research and payroll. Thats what the developer gets. The publisher gets everything else. Why? Because they are risking all the capital. The developers get paid no matter what, in fact they get paid years before the game gets released. The publisher gets the rest because of the risks. They could make 100s of millions or bust and get bankrupted. Developers however still get paid even if the project loses money, however more than likely they will get let go and have to find new jobs.

Why do developers need publishers if a developer gets all the game sales? Why on Earth would 343i need a publisher when it collects all the money? They wouldnt need one would they? Thats the strangest thing ive heard someone say.

12

> This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.
>
> That being said, you cannot discount the fact that the competition has gotten more fierce. I distinctly remember that when Halo 3 came out, every game by every other developer was going the be the “Halo Killer”. They were all out to get Halo and have had some degree of success, but they failed to “kill” halo despite their best efforts.
>
> Online population stats do not tell the whole story. They were calculated differently with Halo 3 and cannot be compared to Reach or Halo 4 numbers.
>
> Bottom line, when Microsoft gets unhappy with online population counts they will either replace 343i or just fold up the tent (as they did with FASA and the MechWarrior series).
>
> No amount of rhetoric in the forums will be the decisive factor in what happens with matchmaking. The only real vote you have is in your wallet (and I’m talking about money, not that other thing :wink:

You’re brain cells late with this theory.

There are more gamers today, and more xboxes today, than there ever were in 2007.

I literally just slew your argument in a single sentence. Forget the “wall tactics” coming from your keyboard.

More people, xbox consoles, and yet H4 and Reach held LESS.

As OP stated, Reach ruined this FPS. AAs and Loadouts, its that simple. It wasn’t Halo and those that agreed it wasn’t Halo moved on. I’m nearly there myself, down to playing this game a few times a week despite having time enough to put it in all seven if I wanted to. No doubt, I am contributing to H4’s population loss, just as my dislike for the game and the mess that it is contributes to how the game has been received.

Worst of all 343 should have noticed what went wrong with Reach. Instead they built on it, and now we have a worse game that even fewer people play.

13

> > This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.
> >
> > That being said, you cannot discount the fact that the competition has gotten more fierce. I distinctly remember that when Halo 3 came out, every game by every other developer was going the be the “Halo Killer”. They were all out to get Halo and have had some degree of success, but they failed to “kill” halo despite their best efforts.
> >
> > Online population stats do not tell the whole story. They were calculated differently with Halo 3 and cannot be compared to Reach or Halo 4 numbers.
> >
> > Bottom line, when Microsoft gets unhappy with online population counts they will either replace 343i or just fold up the tent (as they did with FASA and the MechWarrior series).
> >
> > No amount of rhetoric in the forums will be the decisive factor in what happens with matchmaking. The only real vote you have is in your wallet (and I’m talking about money, not that other thing :wink:
>
> 2007 is considered the strongest year for Games in this generation, so that blows your point straight out of the water. Not to mention the number of games that came out 1-2 years after, Yet Halo 3 remained vastly populated. It was also during the high point of the Xbox vs PS3 vs Wii, the 360 sales were also much much lower compared to now.
>
> People really need to stop pretending that Halo 3 had no competitive, it had massive amounts of competitive. It’s absurd to think otherwise.

Again, published population stats for Halo 3 were calculated differently from the way they are now.

> People really need to stop pretending that Halo 3 had no competitive, it had massive amounts of competitive.

I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. Every Halo release was “competitive” in terms of both sales and gameplay. A lot of competitive players claim they don’t play Halo any more, but we have no way of verifying that. I mean, even if you don’t like Halo 4, what else is out there?

In my experience there’s a shorter wait time in War Games than there is in SPARTAN Ops. I don’t know what that means, but I’m pretty sure competitive players don’t really care for SPARTAN Ops.

14

The true reason behind Halo’s decline was the release of Call of Duty 4, shortly after Halo 3. I watched my friends drop like flies one by one as they flocked over to CoD. Me too, but only for a few weeks. I went back to H3 and tried to bring my friends back with me.

The one friend that came back with me said “Wow, Halo feels like I’m walking on the moon and seems uncool and too cartoony now.” He also said: “Call of Duty feels realistic and uses real guns. I get more kills in it and I like going around knifing people. CoD the new cool thing.”

That is what happened to Halo’s decline, not Reach. If anything, Reach held what fans Halo had left with its replay value by having a kickazz Forge mode and an infinite amount of stuff you could do with customs and Forge.

CoD is the Halo killer, not Reach.

15

> > This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.
>
> HAHA WHAT? Microsoft get it’s money from Xbox Live time? What on earth does that mean? When people play Halo 4 over Xbox Live it COSTS Microsoft money to keep those servers up. “Xbox Live Time”, thats a new one. Microsoft gets almost every penny for sales. Do you know what a developer and a publisher is? A publisher gives the developer a set amount of money (a budget). This budget includes stuff like research and payroll. Thats what the developer gets. The publisher gets everything else. Why? Because they are risking all the capital. The developers get paid no matter what, in fact they get paid years before the game gets released. The publisher gets the rest because of the risks. They could make 100s of millions or bust and get bankrupted. Developers however still get paid even if the project loses money, however more than likely they will get let go and have to find new jobs.
>
> Why do developers need publishers if a developer gets all the game sales? Why on Earth would 343i need a publisher when it collects all the money? They wouldnt need one would they? Thats the strangest thing ive heard someone say.

Well, I was trying not be be technical about it, but the bottom line is that if a game is not selling the developer is essentially finished. That’s why I say they make their money from game sales.

Yes Microsoft loses money on Xbox Live. They also lose money on every Xbox sold. These things are called loss leaders in business because the fact that those things are out there make it possible for Microsoft to make money other ways. You did notice, however, that neither one of those things are free? There’s a difference between making money and making a profit.

16

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not create alternate accounts to bypass forum bans. Alternate accounts will be permanently banned, and offending users will be subject to both temporary and permanent bans.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

CoD has taken a lot of players, true. But Halo 3 held off 3 different CoD games for a very long time.

Reach had ENORMOUS online numbers initially, until it plummeted.

My point with NHL 11, while a great hockey game, did not draw players away from a competative shooter permanently, but that the more realistic explanation is that they were driven away from the Halo series first.

17

> A In-game visible ranking system would help out a lot.

I doubt it.

18

The only problem Reach and Halo 4 have is having Halo in it’s title. If they had been released as new stand alone IPs with no connection to Halo they would be consider outstanding games like Dishonored or Borderlands. The only problem with both games is the Halo community who demand the same thing over and over again while suffering a schism over the premise of a Sci-fi shooter and adhering to the strict rules of a digital soccer game they made Halo 3 into.

19

> What I think (not so much a thought anymore, more of a “this is what happened”) is that 343 is creating a new Halo franchise for a whole new audience.
>
> Think about it. Halo CE, 2, even 3 players are now old. I started Halo CE in middle school, so im still a “young” fan of Halo at age 21. The people that played Halo CE high school or Halo 3 in college probably no longer play or dont have the time or passion for Halo like they use too.
>
> Teenagers and early 20s are what 343 is aiming at now. They are working on a franchise directed at a whole new generation of players. <mark>However this new generation of players STINK!</mark>
>
> They dont have patience for a game anymore. They want a game were you can get 50 kills and 50 deaths in a matter of 3 mins. A game like Counter Strike could never ever be the pinnacle of online shooters with the new generation of gamers like it use to be.
>
> This is what 343 is aiming at. Not old fans that may or may not be playing this, but new comers. A new generation to support this franchise like the old generation did with HCE-3. I dont like it, I dont agree with 343’s approach, but it is what it is.

highlighted is flamebait stuff ^^ . Nevertheless I consider your post to be the perfect explanation on the current state of affairs in the Halo franchise. Thank you.

20

> > > This obsession with Halo 4’s population is getting ridiculous. 343i gets what it gets from game sales. Microsoft gets it’s money from Xbox Live time.
> > >
> > > That being said, you cannot discount the fact that the competition has gotten more fierce. I distinctly remember that when Halo 3 came out, every game by every other developer was going the be the “Halo Killer”. They were all out to get Halo and have had some degree of success, but they failed to “kill” halo despite their best efforts.
> > >
> > > Online population stats do not tell the whole story. They were calculated differently with Halo 3 and cannot be compared to Reach or Halo 4 numbers.
> > >
> > > Bottom line, when Microsoft gets unhappy with online population counts they will either replace 343i or just fold up the tent (as they did with FASA and the MechWarrior series).
> > >
> > > No amount of rhetoric in the forums will be the decisive factor in what happens with matchmaking. The only real vote you have is in your wallet (and I’m talking about money, not that other thing :wink:
> >
> > 2007 is considered the strongest year for Games in this generation, so that blows your point straight out of the water. Not to mention the number of games that came out 1-2 years after, Yet Halo 3 remained vastly populated. It was also during the high point of the Xbox vs PS3 vs Wii, the 360 sales were also much much lower compared to now.
> >
> > People really need to stop pretending that Halo 3 had no competitive, it had massive amounts of competitive. It’s absurd to think otherwise.
>
> Again, published population stats for Halo 3 were calculated differently from the way they are now.
>
>
>
> > People really need to stop pretending that Halo 3 had no competitive, it had massive amounts of competitive.
>
> I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. Every Halo release was “competitive” in terms of both sales and gameplay. A lot of competitive players claim they don’t play Halo any more, but we have no way of verifying that. I mean, even if you don’t like Halo 4, what else is out there?
>
> In my experience there’s a shorter wait time in War Games than there is in SPARTAN Ops. I don’t know what that means, but I’m pretty sure competitive players don’t really care for SPARTAN Ops.

Long story short, Halo 3 shows every single UU(doesn’t matter whether it’s Matchmaking, Custom Games, Forge, sitting in the lobby, or playing Campaign, searching for a matchmaking game it still counted) within 24 hours. Halo: Reach shows every single UU(doesn’t matter whether it’s Matchmaking, Custom Games, Forge, sitting in the lobby, or playing Campaign, searching for a matchmaking game, Firefight it still counted)within 1 hour, Halo 4 shows who is currently in War Games: Matchmaking, or Spartan Ops: Matchmaking game, at this very second, but it doesn’t show the population for everything like Halo 3 and Reach did, and also Halo 4 doesn’t show UUs within a certain time period.