Weapons shouldn't be changed just because pros say so

So I’m seeing a lot of talk about the mangler and other weapons being changed to suit the pro scene, and lemme just say one thing to that audience, stop hiding behind your br

seriously its insanely frustrating when the pro players decided in reach that the only weapon viable is the dmr, also they are the reason why the hud, assassinations, and ranked is all hcs.

When we cried for auto slayer they said “git gud” but we got it, and the game population grew in mcc, not because they put in a new ranked type but because THEY PUT IN A CASUAL PLAYLIST

Pro players get the biggest loudest microphones to yell at the devs and when the casual REAL life blood of the game gets put down the game takes a hit, if they want a nerf to the mangler in a real way then start thinking about the melee mechanics and how lunging forwards after shooting is not fair

there are so many different ways things can be more balanced but screaming “TOO MUCH DAMAGE, make br better” is just going to kill the game off, it did before with reach, 4, 5, and mcc.

EDIT: ok i found definitive proof that its way more faster to drop a weapon than switching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhvkqdIeMU4

now it doesn’t show the SECOND thing which is, its also fast on PICKUP from the dropped weapon

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I am TIRED of playing a game where headshots, hiding like a coward, and using only precision weapons are the only way to play, if you want a precise shooter go play csgo or something else. halo was not designed to be a “cOMpEtItVE gAmE” it was a multiplayer/campaign gamemode meant for fun with either local or online players

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fans massively inflate the overall impact of pro players on Halo.

If I had to guess I’d say that pro players (competitive Halo in general) has had maybe a 5% impact on the franchise. Their overall opinions and desires almost always ignored and/or turned down.

Competitive Halo is the reason a lot of basic features in Halo games are still present: Ranking System, 4v4 in general, Theater mode, Forge, Spectator mode, balanced sandbox, etc. People love to hate on competitive Halo yet ignore the fact that the vast majority of its features and principles are championed by the pro scene. Even something basic like bots in MP is heavily praised by pro players.

Basically Esports/Competitive Halo/whatever pro player you can think of have had a very small impact on the actual series, and what little they have impacted has been very positive. People like to look at Esports like the boogeyman, I find that sentiment to be drastically skewed.

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im pretty sure esports has a MASSIVE pull on games, especially halo. why’d you think assassinations are not in the game? cuz pros don’t use em, pros have been coddled by 343 for a long while its the reason why ranked in mcc is still a big thing and why they are pushing it ON THIS WEBSITE

no offense but saying esports isn’t a big sway is like saying wind is not a factor in kites

Fans are a big thing that Pros have, fans listen to pros, fans then mimic them and start populating places of discussion and begin calling for change that their pro said . because this is what caused all this talk https://twitter.com/Snip3down/status/1479137764146778114

this dude has 200k followers, the post has 1k likes, the views? probably around 10k, so saying these people don’t have sway on game design is not true

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if the pro players says it, 343 will do it, 343 only hears to pro players, remember the halo 5 tuning

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luckily, i do not! because i never played 5!

but if it even can compare how bad reach got, i really f-ing hope that infinite does not end up on the “Pro cry chopping block”

but the REAL ISSUE is the fact that guns can shot instantly after being picked up, there is no delay frames to it so some pro player abused it and others went “is it the issues with exploits being in the frames that makes this bad? no its the mangler”

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CSGO, Dota 2, LoL, and maybe Starcraft 2 you could say that for, but for Halo? They literally spend like 90% of their effort outside of regular 4v4 modes, Campaign is most obvious example. If they cared so deeply about the comp scene they wouldn’t put so many resources towards the casual fan.

Clearly its not because of their incompetence, no the only logical explanation is pro players lol. Also pros do like assassinations, they would occasionally use them as another form of t-bag to get in their opponents minds.

You use a tweet from a Halo pro (former Apex pro btw) where they are asking for changes made to HCS settings as an argument? How and Why shouldn’t pros be able to ask for changes to the settings they play on? This would be like saying that if you play BTB you can’t ask for changes to that playlist… Bad argument.

Snipedown is easily one of the most popular pro players in Halo (even now), so using any pro in particular is a stretch because there are hundreds (thousands of amateurs? :thinking: ) pro players.

Using your same logic Youtubers, Twitch streamers, basically nobody should have sway at all. Unfortunately of course people with thousands (or millions) of fans are going to have far more impact than an average player does. Its that way in every company or business.

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the real issue is THIS https://twitter.com/DirusLupusKF/status/1480676729014435853

the fact that this exists but guess what pro players are not using this as an example of a problem BUT THE MANGLER, the pro players have had years of say in this game because guess what, they have had that in the past https://twitter.com/Cloud9/status/1478185125590405121
https://twitter.com/KevinEcoSmith/status/1478184490094764033

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Ultimately, what determines if a weapon should be changed or not is specifically due to facts. People who provide better facts will be the ones who should be more considered when it comes to changing how a weapon preforms or how it’s distributed.

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It is a fact that the Mangler is strong, so I guess we should nerf it to the Commando’s/Ravager’s/Hydra’s level? You know those guns nobody’s having fun with?

Yeah just take it out of HCS if it’s a problem.

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Just for once, I’d like balance for 99% of players to be taken into consideration before the 1%, but what do I know? :man_shrugging: I can’t even get a ‘true solo queue’ in this game as someone who hovers at ‘Plat VI/Diamond I’ with over 200 games and I get ‘unranked’ players on either team just about every other game, like c’mon ‘343!’

I also have to suffer through hundreds of duo matches (I don’t duo, other players do) where one or two players decide if the match is a win/loss due to the fact people can duo way outside their rank. I’ve been seeing ‘Diamond VI/Onyx’ players with a 1.50/1.60 k/d queuing up with ‘Gold’ players with a .50/.60 k/d so they don’t have to face entire teams of other ‘Diamond VI/Onyx’ players. In ‘CTF’, ‘Strongholds’, and ‘Oddball’ this becomes a huge problem, it is like shooting fish in a barrel for them. In ‘Slayer’ not as much generally, but stomps do happen there also. These ‘Diamond VI/Onyx’ players can usually mop the floor with any ‘Gold’ up to ‘Diamond V’ players, so it makes for really frustrating ‘SBMM’ games. :tired_face:

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Sadly, the Pro League controls all multiplayer shooters.

*sets flowers on the grave of Rainbow Six Siege. OPERATION_BLACK ICE - to - OPERATION_EMBER RISE

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Honestly? You’re not wrong, when Overwatch got the Overwatch League, everything went to -Yoink!-. Because the viewers wanted faster matches, so the Tanks and Supports got nerfs and the DPS got buffs. It made for a miserable experience and no one believes me when I say it’s mostly because of OWL and the changes that pros and the viewers requested.

Pros wanted to be able to put more threat out there, so the Tanks shields got nerfed to wet tissue paper and Supports overall healing took a heck of a hit. And the unfortunate part is that people have just come to accept this is what Overwatch should be. It’s ‘healthy’ that DPS can tear through everything making most attempts at pushing or holding a game of duck and cover every 3-5 seconds (because of those changes, we’ve gotten a double shield meta that everyone hates but it’s highly effective), while Supports often play losing battles with keeping their team alive if they’re not high Diamond to Grandmaster. (And surprise surprise, Smurf accounts started popping up like Daisy’s once those changes were made.)

(Now granted I know that Overwatch and Halo are two vastly different beasts since Halo isn’t a role based FPS. Still it remains a fact that you can make a lot of mistakes listening to a small crowd and ignoring the masses.)

If that’s the kind of results you can get from listening to pro players, then we need to not take that route. The game shouldn’t be built around what the top percent wants, it should be equal grounds for everyone. Now if the majority of pros and casual players are in agreement, then that’s one thing, but if the top 1% or even the top 1% of the 1% are calling the shots and only their voices are heard, that’s when problems start brewing…

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Assassinations are coming, surprised few people know this.

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But of course they are. Assassinations was one of the most popular Custom Games since Halo Reach.
Plus with what they did with Halo 5, you KNOW that they are going to fill Battle Pass tiers, Twitch Prime Drops, and the dreadded shop with assassinations.

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I wish they would listen to the Forerunner team on all the playlists, so we could get some better game modes and more BR starts. The only feedback they took was for the Ranked / Competitive settings it seems.

Sadly that is because it is what makes the most money through marketing and promotions through the Pro League teams.

Exactly, great point. Rather than getting a Nerf something should always be tuned and balanced first and only get a Nerf if it’s still OP after the Balance.

I agree with the Mangler having a longer spawn time in hope that they don’t tweak with the weapon stats and leave it the way it is now.

When it comes down to the
1 shot 1 melee kill
It’s not only the Mangler that does this, most of the Weapons in the infinite sandbox can 1 shot 1 melee kill. So IMHO its not the 1 shot its the melee that needs balancing.

Melee does a lot of damage and a melee with a Banished weapon does more.
Normal melee knocks your shields from 100% to 0% then the damage bleedsthrough to your health leaving your health from 100% to 60%.
So if you combine your shileds and health as an example so you have 200% one normal melee does 140% damage!!!
200% Banished weapon melee does 150% damage!!
All of that with no shots fired.

People have been abusing this melee mechanic and it’s the new way to play infinite which I cant stand anymore. It’d a shooter not a boxing match. With BTB no working and being stuck on small maps with a radar that has a very limited range, it’s difficult to counter someone when they rush in for a melee when your back is up against a wall.

I honestly want melee to be balanced better. One melee should only knock your shields off and leave you with 100% health the next melee should kill you. This would balance the Mangler 1 shot 1 kill and turn it into a
1 shot 1 melee 1 shot kill
Or
1 shot 2 melee kill
This I think would be more fair and balance the game rather than nerffing this or that weapon. I know people will not agree with this but I can easily see at some point after whatever is tweaked with the sandbox, melee will still be the same problem and it will take that long for everyone to understand its not the weapons it’s the melee.

I’m not a pro and I say the mangler is busted.

The fact that people even keep making threads like this proves that there’s something that needs changed. Otherwise people wouldn’t keep bringing it up. They bring it up on here, on Twitter and on Reddit. If a pro says the ravager sucks (which it does), would you tell people to disregard what they’re saying? No. You’re scared that 343 will balance a weapon that clearly needs it because you want to keep using it since it’s so good.

The Mangler is fine tho. It just needs less often spawns on most gamemodes and it would be perfect.

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