Not a rant or a complaint, but considered observation.
The SR weapon unlock system in Halo 4 seems to be utterly superficial - moreso than in similar structures found in the likes of CoD and Battlefield. Weapons which in previous Halo titles would normally be available to all from the outset are here pointlessly withheld behind padlocks for the sake of carrot-dangling progression. Why is this a problem? Because the comparatively small selection of unique - role specific - weaponry on offer in Halo games just isn’t suited to such a progressional unlock structure, it’s as simple as that. For it to have been more worthwhile - for it to offer a truer perception of depth, there would have to be ten varieties of Assault Rifle and just as many ‘different’ versions of the Covenant Carbine, and so on. The Halo sandbox as it is just doesn’t support that aforementioned PERCEPTION of variety in terms its rifles, machine guns and pistols.
Let me stress that I’m not talking about weapon variety in terms of actual gameplay dynamics here (no game is richer than Halo in that regard); but instead the largely superficial type of ‘variety’ which offers dozens and dozens of guns (which essentially all do the same thing a la CoD).
As it is here, with a couple of each type and role being up for grabs, I think 343i have not only missed the point, but or more specifically - the APPEAL of their competitors similar weapons reward systems and in turn might fall far short of their CoD player nabbing expectations. In Halo 4, the weapon unlocks will be a complete waste of time, I am certain of it. A fundamentally flawed system which by all accounts looks to have been thrown in just out of a sheer desire to appeal to the lowest common denominator. I think that’s cheap.
Not a complaint by me, since I love the traditional Halo setup anyway, but it’s a theory I have which I believe will be proven true.
You only have to unlock the weapons once and there are pre-made loadouts with the weapons and Armor Abilities that have yet to be unlocked. That way newbies won’t get smashed because of a specific map that requires a precision weapon.
I agree over all. In terms of it being superficial (certain/all gametypes and playlists having pre-set classes having all the stuff available to you anyway).
I feel like I don’t fully grasp what you mean by the guns all basically not mattering since they do the same job. I feel like you are stating it doesn’t matter what you unlock since in-theory are all balanced, and thus are working to get something no better than what you start w/- which for Halo is great, but for an unlock system is stupid.
All in all I am fine w/ the unlock progression system as long as the weapons are balanced AS THEY SHOULD BE Halo3BRCOUGHBunchofcrapCOUGH*
But I do agree that the unlock system (along w/ alot of features) are a sad attempt to nab CoD fan interest. However I feel that at this point that venture is pointless unless you actually change Halo to be more like CoD in function (dear god don’t do that). I say this because I feel like most CoD players who would be willing to play Halo have already tried and either don’t like it, crossed over or play both.
Hmm, you don’t seem to have understood my point. I’m talking about ‘collector mania’. Look at a game like Battlefield where you have absolutely loads of rifles and sub etc etc. People clearly love working towards those, right? Which is why 343i have implemented a similar system here; except Halo only has its handful of pure, role specific guns. Your opponents BR will be EXACTLY the same as yours.
What is the point of locking away a few guns which once unlocked people will stick with anyway? It’s blatantly superficial and smacks of being thrown in just because it’s become expected.
Again: I’m not complaint about it. But I do think it demonstrates a rather cheap side of 343i as developers.
In Halo 5, there will be ten DMR varieties and all kinds of pistols etc etc. Halo 4 is the tester for that.
The system we will be using in Halo 4 is more like Assassins Creed than COD or BF. You don’t “unlock” weapons, you unlock loadout customization options.
For example, in assassins creed when you start out you have the choice of a couple of pre-set loadouts, you can use things that you haven’t unlocked yet (mostly specail abilitys litke poison and stuff but Halo 4 will have AAs, kind of the same thing). People will use DMR and BR on day one because some of the pre-set loadouts has these guns in them. But if you want to start making your own loadout you will have to unlock these weapons first.
> Bla bla bla failure bla bla bla essential dynamics bla bla bla.
>
>
> There are pre-set loadouts so people with lower ranks can use weapon/armor ability of their choice.
Thats the best excuse for not listening to someones opinion that actually has i point that ive ever heard
Ignorence is strong with this one
OT im just going to try out the progression system and see how it works when the game is out.
Hmm I wouldn’t alienate the weapons as a separate unlock system. I mean, I would include it with everything else from the armor mods, armor abilities, weapon skins, armor skin, armor pieces and ultimately the specializations. I don’t think it’s a failure. I think the weapons will be the first main unlocks anyways to slowly orient people into the game. Specifically new comers.
> The system we will be using in Halo 4 is more like Assassins Creed than COD or BF. You don’t “unlock” weapons, you unlock loadout customization options.
This is a fair point, and I do at least find that aspect encouraging. But there’s still very little justification for 343i’s inclusion of Halo’s arsenal into such a system. Once people unlock the likes of the DMR or the BR (very early, as it happens), the unlocking of other guns will be about as pointless as the unlocking of sniper scopes for SMGs in Battlefield.
> > The system we will be using in Halo 4 is more like Assassins Creed than COD or BF. You don’t “unlock” weapons, you unlock loadout customization options.
>
> This is a fair point, and I do at least find that aspect encouraging. But there’s still very little justification for 343i’s inclusion of Halo’s arsenal into such a system. Once people unlock the likes of the DMR or the BR (very early, as it happens), the unlocking of other guns will be about as pointless as the unlocking of sniper scopes for SMGs in Battlefield.
Except you can choose. For example, I plan to unlock the Light Rifle, then hoard up a bunch of Spartan Points to unleash on a category where I likely will want variance in my loadouts, such as support packages or armor abilities. When I get to the Spartan Rank that allows me to select these, I can pick many of them at once, having not spent points early on for things like all the guns.
> Hmm, you don’t seem to have understood my point. I’m talking about ‘collector mania’. Look at a game like Battlefield where you have absolutely loads of rifles and sub etc etc. People clearly love working towards those, right? Which is why 343i have implemented a similar system here; except Halo only has its handful of pure, role specific guns. Your opponents BR will be EXACTLY the same as yours.
>
> What is the point of locking away a few guns which once unlocked people will stick with anyway? It’s blatantly superficial and smacks of being thrown in just because it’s become expected.
I agree, it does seem shoved in and a pointless. I just take consolation that it doesn’t take as long to unlock all of the weapons and it’s not as drastic as the systems in BF3 and CoD.
I suppose you can see that way, as a failure. It’s valid criticism. However, i think that while it is inevitable that some guns are better than others, i don’t think the weapons are entirely redundant. Not all of them.
Besides, at a higher end of play, you aren’t going to be seeing the entire sandbox used anyways. So at the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter when the option is there to remove that which is considered fluff.
However, i would have like either the DMR or the BR to me in the game by themselves; not have both of them. Perhaps both guns would be functioning a bit different had that been the case. I still feel that, in the current builds, different enough to have heated debates over. Issues like Burst Fire vs Single Shot, Rof, ease of use etc.
Not really sure how i feel about the LR, that will be interesting gun to test out with it’s four shot kill while scoped. I hope it doesn’t end up feeling gimmicky.
Carbine is for nostalgia and looks -Yoink!-. Does have a faster rof than the NR does but kills in about the same (7 shot kill IIRC).
It’s not going to stop me from playing Halo 4, but you do bring up good points nonetheless. I just disagree with them on different levels. At the very least, we are lucky enough not to have to deal with weapon attachments and ADS. Then, you should be afraid for this series.
You actually unlock all the weapons pretty damn early in your progression, by SR4 or so you should have access to every primary weapon (sans skins).
The SR system is more about unlocking abilities and creating your 5 loadouts specifically to how you want them than it is about holding back your offensive capabilities.
In other words, the weapon you want will always be there, however you may have to wait a while for that AA or Armour Mod. you want so badly.
> You actually unlock all the weapons pretty damn early in your progression, by SR4 or so you should have access to every primary weapon (sans skins).
> The SR system is more about unlocking abilities and creating your 5 loadouts specifically to how you want them than it is about holding back your offensive capabilities.
>
> In other words, the weapon you want will always be there, however you may have to wait a while for that AA or Armour Mod. you want so badly.
Which means, until SR-21 or whenever it was you unlock tactical mods, players will just be choosing from the pre-set gametype/map-specific loadouts. Why would I customise my own loadout so early in the game when all I can choose from are a few weapons and no support/tactical mods? In my eyes, the customisation is useless until we have the option to fill each and every slot with at least SOMETHING!
Give us the option early on to use our Spartan Points to buy something in each slot of our loadouts. Don’t leave us with an unavoidable empty slot until SR-21ish!
> Hmm, you don’t seem to have understood my point. I’m talking about ‘collector mania’. Look at a game like Battlefield where you have absolutely loads of rifles and sub etc etc. People clearly love working towards those, right? Which is why 343i have implemented a similar system here; except Halo only has its handful of pure, role specific guns. Your opponents BR will be EXACTLY the same as yours.
>
> What is the point of locking away a few guns which once unlocked people will stick with anyway? It’s blatantly superficial and smacks of being thrown in just because it’s become expected.
>
> Again: I’m not complaint about it. But I do think it demonstrates a rather cheap side of 343i as developers.
>
> In Halo 5, there will be ten DMR varieties and all kinds of pistols etc etc. Halo 4 is the tester for that.
You don’t seem to have understood the point of weapon unlocks in Halo 4. It’s not to give people something to work towards, hence why they are all unlocked fairly quickly. It’s designed to ease people (especially noobs) into the new loadout system.
If as a noob when you first start the game it’s much easier if you have a few default loadouts that can barely be customised. As you become more familiar with the game the loadout system will be less intimidating.
A lot of what 343 has done to this game is to get new people on board> yes, us vets might not agree (announcer spam, increase in waypoints), but it’s for the good of the community as a whole and for in the long run you. Because the more people that play the game, the bigger budget future Halo games will have.
> Which means, until SR-21 or whenever it was you unlock tactical mods, players will just be choosing from the pre-set gametype/map-specific loadouts. Why would I customise my own loadout so early in the game when all I can choose from are a few weapons and no support/tactical mods. In my eyes, <mark>the customisation is useless until we have the option to fill each and every slot with a least SOMETHING!</mark>
Not just your eyes, by definition.
Do remember the hope is that matchmaking isn’t like Reach’s unrestricted search engine. Even if you come across a more experienced player, a much more skilled and experienced is not the intended case.
This is a known variable that must be held on constant reigns. That is why SR50 doesn’t unlock anything until the switch is thrown and why even early SD players can now use any Specialization once they’re turned on.
That is why each map has its own base loadout that changes over time to reflect the sandbox and data. The weapons, AA’s and AM’s will all change over time in response to player tendencies and different maps.
New players need not worry if they don’t have their perfect setup, each map has a great setup to use (because what if none of your setups are good for a given map?)
Having the right tool for the right job. Just starting your first loadout or 2 (you don’t get all 5 till SR50) with the offensive capabilities (grenades, weapons) will go a long way in making you feel comfortable and to learn the basics of the chosen loadout.
Without the AA’s and AM’s there, you actually have to play basic. You MUST learn to walk before you can run. Some may claim that’s a disadvantage, but in the non-hardcore/classic lists where this is a “problem”, it’s merely part of the sandbox learning system. Yes in theory it’d be great to start with Dexterity for reloading on every weapon (Hellllloooo Slayer Pro), but without putting in the time without it, without learning the basics of the new gameplay, would you ever ponder other issues in proper depth? What use is the advanced system going to be if you personally haven’t experienced basic gameplay vs advanced?
As of late, people have started this trend of first announcing that their thread is not a complaint or rant. I hate being the bearer of bad news, but this is a complaint and rant thread my friend.
> Not saying I like it, but Id rather feel like my level progression counts for something.