Weapon Tuning Anticipation

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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In anticipation of the weapon tuning update I thought I would go ahead and post what I had been working on for the last week or so. I originally came up with the idea during Phase two. We were giving our feedback in the Weapon Tuning Test: Phase Two Feedback thread, and I started to get curious; out of all the players who are trying out the test, and leaving feedback how many players were liking or disliking various aspects of the test. Basically, what was the ratio, and I decided to go ahead take the time to go post by post and figure that exact thing out.

This ended up taking a lot longer than I had anticipated, and I didn’t completely finish doing this for the whole thread. I went through about 43 pages of feedback though, and with the live stream coming up next Wednesday where they are going, “…to more intricately discuss the Halo 5 Weapon Tuning project.”, I thought I would go ahead a post what I found.

What I did was pretty simple, whoever posted liking or disliking part of the tuning test I added it to the total. I made a note who posted so as not to count them twice. I also read up, on those who I could not everyone has their posts available to look at, to see if they had changed their minds about something along the way. Most people only posted once, but there was some who didn’t. I kept track of those conversations as much as I could.

Here’s the breakdown of what I found, like’s are listed first:

  • BR: 86 205 - GF: 79 106 - AR: 67 87 - DMR: 64 79 - Carbine: 61 79 - SMG: 82 81 - GL: 62 78 - Beam Rifle: 54 54 - Rail Gun: 61 92 - Sword: 62 76 - Fuel Rod: 61 66 - Camo: 58 63This was out of a total of 291 players who posted. Every single one gave some type of feedback about the BR at least so that is how I got that total. I was also going to track how many people liked the motion sensor, but literally only a handful even mentioned it.

Some of the numbers are pretty close, but it is interesting how almost no aspect of the tuning test was liked more than not, with the SMG only having one more liked than not liked. After the stream we found out about 4 weapons from the test they would be making changes to due to their data, and player feedback. Since they obviously seem to be taking player feedback into consideration I wonder if that means that every one of these weapons and the power up will be changed from what we played in the test.

Finally, a quick breakdown of what we already know:

  • BR: "…will ship with recoil that’s in-line with the original launch version and a bit tighter bullet grouping compared to what players experienced during the tuning test. - Gunfighter: “…additional refinements to make it “snappier” in terms of drawing and readying while also boosting its damage and accuracy.” - Rail Gun: “…will land in the middle with a slightly longer recharge time than the original default version and a slightly slower fire time at the tail end than what was in the public test.” - AR: "…will receive an increase to accuracy and a slight increase to its fire rate but at the cost of decreased damage per bullet."Last but not least grenades:

  • Frags: “…are being tweaked to have a slightly reduced blast radius.” - Splinters: “…the initial blast damage is being reduced to … excel as an “area of denial” weapon as intended.” ~ Odds and EndsWell that’s it. I am looking forward to finding out more next week. If you all can make sure to tune in. It will be around 3 pm PT on Wednesday November 1st streamed mixer.com/Halo, but make sure to keep on eye on @Halo. They insinuated that the time might change.

I hope some of you are excited about all this as I am. I have really enjoyed being a part of the whole process.

ADDITIONS 11/1: thanks to Plastic Hassle
Related reading: Halo 5 Patch Preview (Coming 11/2!)

> Sorry, more context is coming tomorrow in the weapon tuning details stream/blog, but the “Relic Sword” is basically an Energy Sword minus the 20% movement speed bonus (primarily for competitive purposes) @ske7ch343

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I’m still very, VERY concerned about the AR. I’m curious to try out the changes to the BR and GF. Happy to hear about the Splinter Grenade change. I think the Railgun change should turn out okay.

It’ll be interesting to read in more detail what they’re changing and their reasoning for why.

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> 2775209234672000;2:
> I’m still very, VERY concerned about the AR. I’m curious to try out the changes to the BR and GF. Happy to hear about the Splinter Grenade change. I think the Railgun change should turn out okay.
>
> It’ll be interesting to read in more detail what they’re changing and their reasoning for why.

I was actually one of the few who liked the change. I felt like it was more in tune with what its niche should be. The main thing I didn’t like about it was that it was only a pick up weapon. It seemed to me that very few players were actually picking it up and using it.

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I have also had zero complaints with changes. Even if I had complaints I would see it as a challenge to adapt and just become a more well rounded player.

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> 2533274967098819;4:
> I have also had zero complaints with changes. Even if I had complaints I would see it as a challenge to adapt and just become a more well rounded player.

Just to clarify I never said I had zero complaints, and I don’t agree that the dislike for some of the changes had anything to do with needing to become a more well rounded player. I think it is irresponsible to try and make this discussion about that. That is definitely not the issue.

Do you really think the pros who talked about it on their youtube channels are unable to adapt?

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> 2533274863544717;5:
> > 2533274967098819;4:
> > I have also had zero complaints with changes. Even if I had complaints I would see it as a challenge to adapt and just become a more well rounded player.
>
> Just to clarify I never said I had zero complaints, and I don’t agree that the dislike for some of the changes had anything to do with needing to become a more well rounded player. I think it is irresponsible to try and make this discussion about that. That is definitely not the issue.
>
> Do you really think the pros who talked about it on their youtube channels are unable to adapt?

My words never implied anything of those things. If they came across as such, then I do truly apologize. I simply was saying that is my standpoint and personal outlook on it.

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> 2533274863544717;3:
> > 2775209234672000;2:
> > I’m still very, VERY concerned about the AR. I’m curious to try out the changes to the BR and GF. Happy to hear about the Splinter Grenade change. I think the Railgun change should turn out okay.
> >
> > It’ll be interesting to read in more detail what they’re changing and their reasoning for why.
>
> I was actually one of the few who liked the change. I felt like it was more in tune with what its niche should be. The main thing I didn’t like about it was that it was only a pick up weapon. It seemed to me that very few players were actually picking it up and using it.

What do you see as its niche?

Personally, my general analysis, experience, and opinion with the re-tuned AR matched Aozolai’s fairly well. I also hated that it was treated as a pick-up weapon which limited my ability to get quality hands on time with it and in a number of situations.

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Personally, I thought the AR in the tuning test become complete garbage. No one used it because it couldn’t beat a dam thing anymore…not even at close range. To me all it needed was to have,loose whatever it’s increase in range when zooming reduced and/or gone. I felt the ROF, damage output etc was fine as it was. I’ll call it right now… If the AR is more like how it was in the tuning test, 343I is going to hear a lot of complaints from people who love there AR.

I like what 343I said about the 4 weapons they talked about, but reading something and using it is completely different. So, we’ll see…

The one thing I don’t understand for the life of me is the Splinter grenades. I’ve always said the idea of them are great, but if they truly want it to be a “blocking” type grenade, then the “net” needs to be a bit bigger (not a lot) and it should do zero damage to heath but strip shields almost instantly. Now you would have a grenade that is a “blocking” grenade. It becomes "you can pass threw, but your 1 shot away from death potentially (headshot) 343I them selves have even said they wanted the grenade to be this way. So I don’t know why they haven’t gone this route more. It just makes so much sense in my mind.

I’m definitely looking forward to reading (as the stream is good but too easy to forget or miss something) all the details and what they change.

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> 2775209234672000;7:
> > 2533274863544717;3:
> > > 2775209234672000;2:
> > > I’m still very, VERY concerned about the AR. I’m curious to try out the changes to the BR and GF. Happy to hear about the Splinter Grenade change. I think the Railgun change should turn out okay.
> > >
> > > It’ll be interesting to read in more detail what they’re changing and their reasoning for why.
> >
> > I was actually one of the few who liked the change. I felt like it was more in tune with what its niche should be. The main thing I didn’t like about it was that it was only a pick up weapon. It seemed to me that very few players were actually picking it up and using it.
>
> What do you see as its niche?
>
> Personally, my general analysis, experience, and opinion with the re-tuned AR matched Aozolai’s fairly well. I also hated that it was treated as a pick-up weapon which limited my ability to get quality hands on time with it and in a number of situations.

I was mainly thinking in terms of the reduced range, and the increase in spread when the trigger is not pulsed. I picked it up whenever I could. I made a point in picking it up and using it. I liked it because I basically had to use it at a closer range and pulsing the trigger. In my opinion a good change.

But I was in the minority, and it’s has been changed accordingly. I have yet to watch Azolia’s video. I need to do that.

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I’m worried about the new BR. I know a lot of people didn’t like the Phase 2 balance, but I thought it was almost perfect. For the first time in Halo 5 I felt like I didn’t have to worry about being killed from long range any time I crossed an open space. It was great. My biggest issue with the BR has always been that it’s usable range is WAYYYYYYYYY too long. It’s what is single-handedly destroying BTB IMO.

It’s just so easy to use in base Halo 5. I don’t like it at all. I really liked the updated BR. I feel like every BR engagement currently is me seeing or being seen at mid-long range, and four or five shotting them before they realize where I am and visa-versa. That or actually dueling but due to the bullet magnetism and kill speed are so high and fast it’s heavily favored in the direction of who shot who first, and the only real way to make them miss is Thruster. The updated BR fixed both of those problems.

People overreacted becasue they weren’t basically guaranteed a kill anymore, and don’t get me wrong, there were consistency problems with the updated BR, but it was way overstated because it also had noticeably less bullet magnetism. I actually had to aim the gun and react to their movements, and it felt good. I’m hoping that 343i were able to see through the bias and find a middle where the overall effects are still there, but the consistency issues are not. Until I get my hands on it though I’m worried.

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I’m very concerned about the AR, we’ll many of the weapons but primarily the AR. It will have a faster fire rate and decreased damage per shot, that means more ammo to take one target down plus higher chance of more wastep rounds on missed shots. It already chewed through it’s meager reserve ammo fast now it’ll be even faster.

Couple that with the fact that these tuning changes will apply to campaign as well and I see an issue already. Ammo has always been an issue in Halo 5, even Halo 4, reserve ammo for most weapons has always been on the low side. I get that they want players to use many weapons but shouldn’t that choice be up to the player? In Halo CE I could finish that game without ever ditching the AR, or the Pistol because their was usually a resupply somewhere whether it’s a stash, a corpse, off an enemy, or whatever you never had to really ditch weapons because they carried enough ammo to begin with. The AR carried 600 rounds in reserve, the Pistol 120, both at 10 spare mags a piece. Halo 3’s MA5C carried 352 in reserve for 11 spare mags worth.

Nowadays you’re lucky if you can hold onto your guns through even one skirmish. Reserve limits are much lower and resupply opportunities outside of human area are almost nonexistent. The guns need a higher reserve count.

Another solution, and one I think should be made standard for all Halo shooter titles in the future, is to make the bandana skull a standard addition.

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> 2533274800772611;10:
> I’m worried about the new BR. I know a lot of people didn’t like the Phase 2 balance, but I thought it was almost perfect. For the first time in Halo 5 I felt like I didn’t have to worry about being killed from long range any time I crossed an open space. It was great. My biggest issue with the BR has always been that it’s usable range is WAYYYYYYYYY too long. It’s what is single-handedly destroying BTB IMO.
>
> It’s just so easy to use in base Halo 5. I don’t like it at all. I really liked the updated BR. I feel like every BR engagement currently is me seeing or being seen at mid-long range, and four or five shotting them before they realize where I am and visa-versa. That or actually dueling but due to the bullet magnetism and kill speed are so high and fast it’s heavily favored in the direction of who shot who first, and the only real way to make them miss is Thruster. The updated BR fixed both of those problems.
>
> People overreacted becasue they weren’t basically guaranteed a kill anymore, and don’t get me wrong, there were consistency problems with the updated BR, but it was way overstated because it also had noticeably less bullet magnetism. I actually had to aim the gun and react to their movements, and it felt good. I’m hoping that 343i were able to see through the bias and find a middle where the overall effects are still there, but the consistency issues are not. Until I get my hands on it though I’m worried.

I was, overall, pretty happy with the BR as well. I am hoping that the main issue they are changing with it is that random spread. I appreciated that during the tuning test it wasn’t all about who saw who first, but could also be about who could out maneuver and shoot who.

I don’t believe 343 are totally giving into the overstated concerns, but are also looking at the data the collected. That was why it was so important that we play and test out as much of the weapons as we could.

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I havent kept up with any of the potential changes and havent read all of this thread. What are they doing to the AR? Its really all i care about.

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> 2533274816299345;13:
> I havent kept up with any of the potential changes and havent read all of this thread. What are they doing to the AR? Its really all i care about.

“The AR will receive an increase to accuracy and a slight increase to its fire rate but at the cost of decreased damage per bullet.”

Basically, a buff to it’s ROF and accuracy but a nerf to it’s damage.

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> 2533274870717152;14:
> > 2533274816299345;13:
> > I havent kept up with any of the potential changes and havent read all of this thread. What are they doing to the AR? Its really all i care about.
>
> “The AR will receive an increase to accuracy and a slight increase to its fire rate but at the cost of decreased damage per bullet.”
>
> Basically, a buff to it’s ROF and accuracy but a nerf to it’s damage.

So as long as i stay on target the ttk should be the same roughly?

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> 2533274816299345;15:
> > 2533274870717152;14:
> > > 2533274816299345;13:
> > > I havent kept up with any of the potential changes and havent read all of this thread. What are they doing to the AR? Its really all i care about.
> >
> > “The AR will receive an increase to accuracy and a slight increase to its fire rate but at the cost of decreased damage per bullet.”
> >
> > Basically, a buff to it’s ROF and accuracy but a nerf to it’s damage.
>
> So as long as i stay on target the ttk should be the same roughly?

I assume that will be the case.

I’m not sure if they’ve done anything to the headshot damage multiplier though. :confused:

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> 2533274870717152;16:
> > 2533274816299345;15:
> > > 2533274870717152;14:
> > > > 2533274816299345;13:
> > > > I havent kept up with any of the potential changes and havent read all of this thread. What are they doing to the AR? Its really all i care about.
> > >
> > > “The AR will receive an increase to accuracy and a slight increase to its fire rate but at the cost of decreased damage per bullet.”
> > >
> > > Basically, a buff to it’s ROF and accuracy but a nerf to it’s damage.
> >
> > So as long as i stay on target the ttk should be the same roughly?
>
> I assume that will be the case.
>
> I’m not sure if they’ve done anything to the headshot damage multiplier though. :confused:

I think they are keeping the reduced range. I could be wrong. We will know a lot more next week.

> 2775209234672000;7:
> Personally, my general analysis, experience, and opinion with the re-tuned AR matched Aozolai’s fairly well. I also hated that it was treated as a pick-up weapon which limited my ability to get quality hands on time with it and in a number of situations.

So I finally had a chance to watch his video. I respect what he does, and for the most part I usually agree with him, but not in this case. I didn’t really see the problem with having to increase your accuracy by burst firing, but hey I was definitely in the minority on that one. The devs even disagreed with me.

I still don’t think there is too much to be worried about. Well, that is unless, you wanted the AR to stay the same…then, yeah, I guess there is. I hope you get to listen to the stream. As you know I always appreciate your very in depth and detailed feedback on whatever the subject. I believe during and after there will be loads to talk about.

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The stream tonight we will finally know everything! I will be counting the hours and watching the stream. Who else is doing the same?

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This will be one of the first streams for a quite a while that I’m going to miss sadly, sounds like it should be fun. Hopefully Quinn brings out an equally good t-shirt as he did on the last one haha. I’ll be sure to catch the VOD once I finally get home :slight_smile:

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Related reading: Halo 5 Patch Preview (Coming 11/2!)

One thing that caught my attention is “added the Relic Sword to the weapon palette." Sounds like they’ve addressed some sword concerns while keeping the original intact:

> Sorry, more context is coming tomorrow in the weapon tuning details stream/blog, but the “Relic Sword” is basically an Energy Sword minus the 20% movement speed bonus (primarily for competitive purposes) @ske7ch343