WEAPON SPAWN MECHANICS, and their relationship with MAP MOVEMENT.

i set the category for this to ‘halo 4’, but it would also be awesome if this was changed with the title update for halo reach as well.

========================================================================
THE PROBLEM / ISSUE IN QUESTION:

currently, in halo reach, weapon spawns work as follows (correct me if you see any mistakes, but im almost positive this is how it works):

weapons start on the map at the start of the game.

if a player picks up a weapon, another weapon will be ready to respawn when the set timer for the weapon he just picked up hits ‘0’.

the weapon will then spawn, if a player is not holding another one (if its set at max 1, which is pretty standard). if a player IS holding the weapon, and it is ready to spawn, it will NOT spawn until the player either DIES, or drops the weapon by switching to something else.

if a player dies, or switches out the weapon, the new weapon will spawn immediately.

because of this, players in reach are able to control a single weapon, not die, and simply drop the weapon when they are near the respawn point for more ammo in the weapon at their leisure. if a player is good enough, as long as he is able to not die, he will be able to control a weapon with a “max weapon on map” of 1, with relative ease, for the entire duration of a match. another odd thing a player can do is to take the weapon in question, then move to the OPPOSITE side of the map, so if he would die, he is more likely to respawn back at the location where the brand spankin’ new weapon will spawn (by way of spawning mechanics making people spawn away from where they died).

this might not seem like a big problem, but i strongly feel like it is, especially at higher levels of play where people are adept and work very hard to not die EVER.

this style of weapon spawning mechanics MASSIVELY promotes camping, and stagnant gameplay.

SOME of this problem can be remedied by simply moving the ‘max weapon count’ to more than 1, but weapons will still spawn at the set spawn timer AFTER the weapon was picked up, meaning the person who picked it up knows EXACTLY when it will spawn, and can set up for that spawn better than someone who would have to guess when it spawns.

by doing this the player will gain a massive advantage because now he can transverse the map and come back to the weapon spawning when its about to spawn, kill the guy waiting for it, then go about his path of destruction.

========================================================================
THE SOLUTION TO SAID PROBLEM

once again, were back to the golden days of halo CE. this inspires a lot of pistol rage in some of you fellows, but bear with me.

in halo CE, weapons and powerups (overshield / camo) spawn on a set timer, every minute, or 2 minutes, or 3 minutes, etc. (provided they werent already spawned in the first place).

weapons spawning have literally nothing to do with players picking up the weapon aside from the game checking to see if another one needs to be spawned because its not there in the first place. (after all, we dont need to see a PILE of rocket launchers built up from spawning do we? lolz)

because weapons spawn every minute, or 2 minutes, or 3 minutes, moving around the map is MASSIVELY IMPORTANT, whilst CAMPING is SEVERELY INHIBITED.

watching halo CE gameplay at higher levels will show this to be true, as high level players will CONSTANTLY be in this battle to control the power weapon locations when they need to, and move around the map to ‘juggle’ each power weapon and powerup individually.

if this seems like we’d just have weapons raining out our ears all game, please remember that the respawn times, and ammo amounts can be tweaked. weapons could be set to spawn every minute, just like they could be set to spawn every 2 minutes, or 3 minutes, or 2 minutes and 30 seconds, etc. etc.

weapons also do not have to spawn with all the ammo in them. you could have a rocket launcher spawn every 2 minutes, with 2 rockets in it, and no ammo. or a sniper rifle spawn every minute with only 4 bullets, and no ammo, etc.

in my opinion, this way of weapon spawning is more intuitive, more straight forward, and more logical than the default halo 2 way of spawning weapons.

it also promotes more map movement, and punishes people for camping (unless they are setting up briefly for a weapon to spawn).

if players sit still (with a shotgun, camping in a corner) in halo CE, they’ll almost always lose out to the players who move around and try their best to juggle the different weapons spawning, and the powerups spawning.

========================================================================
YOUR THOUGHTS?

so what do you guys think? is the HALO CE way of spawning weapons better? it seems pretty straight forward as to why its better in my opinion.

in my opinion a good player shouldnt be able to control the EXACT moment a weapon spawns, simply by holding onto it until its ready to spawn (and not dying).

in my opinion the halo CE way is also better because players KNOW EXACTLY when weapons will spawn, they dont have to guess based on what time they believed the opponent to have picked them up, like the halo reach system is with ‘max weapon count’ at more than 1.

feedback needed please :smiley:

========================================================================
BONUS SIDE QUESTION!

in halo CE if 2 players are standing DIRECTLY on top of a powerup spawn, they would both receive the power up when it spawned (proof at the 20 second mark), instead of just one of them. to me i feel like this encourages more teamwork, and communication, etc. and would be SWEET to see in the next halo. do you guys agree? or would you rather the powerup simply go to one person, not making this possible?

(i looked for the video to prove this but i couldnt find it. the video was the ogre twins playing against some people 2v2 on prisoner in halo CE, link me if you know what vid im talking about)

CE can be used as the best example for almost every game mechanic.

Again, this is a good idea and I support it. I wonder why it was ever taken away. It encourages map movement alot as no one is keeping the power weapons to themselves. Everyone will also have the same chance to get the weapon. The map should never be easily controllable, this would quarantee it.

As for the bonus question, that’s something what really encourages teamwork. I’m still afraid it could grant another team too good advantage for a while, but then again, they deserve it for their team work. This depends alot on what kind of weapon sandbox the game has and how fast it plays. For example a whole team with overshields in a CTF match could easily get the whole other team to respawn screen and run away with the flag. I say it depends alot on how easy or hard this would be to set up and how many players would be able to get the power-up at the same time, it also depends on overall gameplay speed.

Great post, yes the weapon timers need to go back to the CE days where it was on a set time interval, as it does promote map movement and timing of power weapons which was more important in Halo CE. As for power-ups…I dont think both players should get the power-ups bonus as the power-ups are already pretty powerful and having 2 OV’s coming at you was pretty cheap sometimes. I would like it though, if we could nade power-ups and weapons again that was a strategeic element of the game that got lost in the later Halo games.

> CE can be used as the best example for almost every game mechanic.
>
> Again, this is a good idea and I support it. I wonder why it was ever taken away. It encourages map movement alot as no one is keeping the power weapons to themselves. Everyone will also have the same chance to get the weapon. The map should never be easily controllable, this would quarantee it.
>
> As for the bonus question, that’s something what really encourages teamwork. I’m still afraid it could grant another team too good advantage for a while, but then again, they deserve it for their team work. This depends alot on what kind of weapon sandbox the game has and how fast it plays. For example a whole team with overshields in a CTF match could easily get the whole other team to respawn screen and run away with the flag. I say it depends alot on how easy or hard this would be to set up and how many players would be able to get the power-up at the same time, it also depends on overall gameplay speed.

thanks for your input!

about your bonus question answer:

i agree. if the game doesnt play pretty fast, an overshield can be pretty overwhelming, let alone 2.

> Great post, yes the weapon timers need to go back to the CE days where it was on a set time interval, as it does promote map movement and timing of power weapons which was more important in Halo CE. As for power-ups…I dont think both players should get the power-ups bonus as the power-ups are already pretty powerful and having 2 OV’s coming at you was pretty cheap sometimes. I would like it though, if we could nade power-ups and weapons again that was a strategeic element of the game that got lost in the later Halo games.

thanks for the input.

i also agree 100% how we should be able to nade power ups and weapons. that was such an AMAZING part of halo CE. it really opened up the game and added a TON of depth.

I don’t see how having the weapon guaranteed to spawn at a set time is any better than the current system. How does it not promote camping, especially if you are guaranteed to get additional ammo? The only reason I could see map movement is more encouraged in Halo CE is because people were restricted to LAN parties, as CE didn’t have multiplayer until 2003. I’ve played CE online with Halo PC, and there was just as much camping as the modern console Halo titles have.

> I don’t see how having the weapon guaranteed to spawn at a set time is any better than the current system. How does it not promote camping, especially if you are guaranteed to get additional ammo? The only reason I could see map movement is more encouraged in Halo CE is because people were restricted to LAN parties, as CE didn’t have multiplayer until 2003. I’ve played CE online with Halo PC, and there was just as much camping as the modern console Halo titles have.

this was all laid out for you in the original post. i’ll give you a TL:DR since apparently you wont read an entire post before you comment.

in halo reach, if you pick up rockets, and you stay alive for longer than the respawn time of that weapon, and the default ‘max weapon count’ is at 1 (which is standard by the way, for almost every map), 2 things will happen.

1.) the weapon will NEVER SPAWN until you DIE or DROP the weapon.
2.) you are now able to control the weapon for the rest of the game, getting a new one at your leisure, by not dying, and switching out the weapon when you need more ammo.

because of this, players dont have to move towards the rockets / sniper / etc. to hold the area down in preparation for the weapon spawning because IT WILL NOT SPAWN IF SOMEONE IS HOLDING IT. this means 1 player can effectively prevent all map movement towards certain areas of the map that are generally only transversed by people looking to get the weapon that spawns there. this also makes camping certain places especially powerful, because the team camping has the rockets and knows the other team will never get another rocket to break up their setup (which is usually what the rockets are meant to do).

in halo CE, weapons spawn on the minute marks, for whatever their timer is. because of this, players are ALWAYS moving around the map trying to pick up new weapons spawning, juggling power ups, and weapon timers, always on the move to gain the advantage that said things would give. if you stand still in halo CE, someone who is moving around will gain a MASSIVE advantage over you by acquiring weapons and powerups, then kill you with them.

people will always camp, its just… in halo reach its 100000x more effective because you have literally no chance of ever being killed by the power weapon that you are holding because it will NEVER SPAWN. this means you can set up in places that are weak to certain power weapons, holding that power weapon, and just decimate all game.

good example of this is on uncaged, where you can hold the sniper at the little tower in the corner of the map for the entire game, with relative ease. ive done this on many occasions.

> > I don’t see how having the weapon guaranteed to spawn at a set time is any better than the current system. How does it not promote camping, especially if you are guaranteed to get additional ammo? The only reason I could see map movement is more encouraged in Halo CE is because people were restricted to LAN parties, as CE didn’t have multiplayer until 2003. I’ve played CE online with Halo PC, and there was just as much camping as the modern console Halo titles have.
>
> this was all laid out for you in the original post. i’ll give you a TL:DR since apparently you wont read an entire post before you comment.
>
> in halo reach, if you pick up rockets, and you stay alive for longer than the respawn time of that weapon, and the default ‘max weapon count’ is at 1 (which is standard by the way, for almost every map), 2 things will happen.
>
> 1.) the weapon will NEVER SPAWN until you DIE or DROP the weapon.
> 2.) you are now able to control the weapon for the rest of the game, getting a new one at your leisure, by not dying, and switching out the weapon when you need more ammo.
>
> because of this, players dont have to move towards the rockets / sniper / etc. to hold the area down in preparation for the weapon spawning because IT WILL NOT SPAWN IF SOMEONE IS HOLDING IT. this means 1 player can effectively prevent all map movement towards certain areas of the map that are generally only transversed by people looking to get the weapon that spawns there. this also makes camping certain places especially powerful, because the team camping has the rockets and knows the other team will never get another rocket to break up their setup (which is usually what the rockets are meant to do).
>
> in halo CE, weapons spawn on the minute marks, for whatever their timer is. because of this, players are ALWAYS moving around the map trying to pick up new weapons spawning, juggling power ups, and weapon timers, always on the move to gain the advantage that said things would give. if you stand still in halo CE, someone who is moving around will gain a MASSIVE advantage over you by acquiring weapons and powerups, then kill you with them.
>
> people will always camp, its just… in halo reach its 100000x more effective because you have literally no chance of ever being killed by the power weapon that you are holding because it will NEVER SPAWN. this means you can set up in places that are weak to certain power weapons, holding that power weapon, and just decimate all game.
>
> good example of this is on uncaged, where you can hold the sniper at the little tower in the corner of the map for the entire game, with relative ease. ive done this on many occasions.

To start, I did read the entire first post before posting myself. However, I will say that this example struck home much better than your original (don’t know why, it just did). So, I must formally change my opinion to “I agree”.

Thank you.

An option for a set timer would be nice.

Another option is to make it so that a weapon doesn’t respawn until it’s ammo has been used up.

> Another option is to make it so that a weapon doesn’t respawn until it’s ammo has been used up.

this could be abused i think, and its kinda the same sort of problem. the idea is weapons should spawn no matter what, when their timer hits 1 min 2 mins 3 mins, etc. so people will be encouraged to move around.