It was nerfed because some pro players streamers were complaining. That said, 343 was like the majority can go to hell.
Ok, Iâm quite sure this is a violation of community guidelines as you are calling out personal information regarding people in a discussion, rather than focusing on the discussion itself. Youâve been flagged (which is why I did not originally address this comment) but now others have responded to this so I will adress this.
I seldom play ranked, this is my personal preference (I donât really enjoy BR starts honestly⌠I like having to acquire BRâs and other weapons by picking them up on the map). I donât judge people who play ranked or those who prefer casual, at the end of the day itâs the same game.
Now even if I did play ranked, you pointing towards how high someone is ranked is completely irrelevant to a discussion on a forum about how to make a weapon have more funtionality.
Theoretical? No, this is quite litterally possible. This is the TTK of a perfect. Now are you going to miss shots sometimes? Absolutely (as you also will with the Mangler which is less forgiving) but as Iâve pointed out you can miss 2 shots with the Sidekick (due to bloom) and still have a faster TTK than the Mangler.
Now this is the problem when you think ranked is the only game mode people play. In ranked you have to go out and pick up a SK to use it, but in literally every other playlist the SK is often a default weapon. So in that case literally everyone is using it.
- Post authoritatively about sidekick being better than mangler because you have âdone research and checked factsâ
- confronted with reality that this is not the case based on objective arguments held unanimously by skilled players and by reality of gameplay
- pivot to say you donât even play ranked but regardless you are an authority on using weapons optimally and insist SK is better than mangler
- attempt to flag a user for pulling their HaloTracker data despite that being commonplace on the forum
It was in poor taste to call out your CSR difference, I admit it (although it was almost irresistible, itâs like a watching a 1500 tell a GM why a move is bad in Chess). If youâre uncomfortable with your Halo performance data being publicly available or used in discussion, I suggest you quit the forum, as all your statistics (in most games, not just Halo) are available from a variety of sites through your gamertag. Or, maybe you can change your username from your gamertag? Youâd have to ask a mod.
The post was flagged for bringing my âskill levelâ into the discussion as an attempt to invalidate my involvement in the discussion. âI am better, so therefore I know betterâ is not a valid arguement.
This is directly from the community guidelines, I suggest you review them:
âYou may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. Thatâs fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people .â
This has nothing to do with public information, but rather you criticizing a person instead of the idea.
Itâs not a democracy and nobodyâs voting. You may want to get that idea out of your head.
A-are you actually saying "Mwehehe, I flagged the mods > : ) "
You know mod-wielding is against the rules too right?
The pistol part is important because pistols are treated as a specific weapon type on pads
Being a pistol only means something in infinite, because pistols are treated differently than say, SMGs.
Because the mangler is a pistol, you can have any number of them on the map, unlike say a needler where thereâs only ever one. So yes, if you changed it from being a pistol, it WOULD improve the situation.
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Sidekick is used very often in ranked by good players. I was in the top 50 for both season in crossplay, the best players out there use the sidekick. Its very strong in a small area. The sidekick is very random but it isnât bad, at all.
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Consistency. You very, very rarely get a perfect with the sidekick. You will basically never get a perfect with the AR.
Plasma pistol will miss probably 30% of the time if not more, due to how the tracking works.
Pulse carbine has a much higher chance of missing, and is inconsistent with how much of the burst hits.
The mangler with decent aim does two things:
Hits with very little issue due to its faster projectile than the plasma weapons
Will always do the same amount of damage, not missing due to bloom or poor tracking.
This combo beats out the most important TTK in the game, which is a BR 4 perfect, because that is REALISTIC to hit, unlike a sidekick or AR perfect, and is the most common gun you will be facing.
Even without dropping the mangler and just switching, it still beats out a 4 shot.
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From my experience with the Carbine, Iâve noticed two things that make it significantly better that people may not know.
- Itâs tracking seems to be better when zoomed in.
- Thereâs a sweet spot where the tracking is far more ideal when it comes to landing shots based off of the distance between you and the target. IT seems to miss more if your too close, but with a little distance, what I would call mid range, it seems to be far better when it comes to landing hits.
Carbine with drop a player I believe in 3 bursts if the shots land well. 1 or 2 bursts will drop shields.
Thing is at that point youâre better off just bursting someone down with a nigh-hitscan weapon.
You should never fire more than one burst with the pulse carbine, you fire the burst then immediately drop it as the bolts are still flying. That gives you basically an âoutâ if it mostly misses, you arenât going to be that far behind in the gun fight that you auto lose.
But yes youâre right on the first part, zooming does help, but not necessarily why you think. Zooming increases the red reticle (and thus tracking) distance, and that makes it harder to dodge.
The pulse carbine is still a bad gun but it does have itâs uses.
Pads donât have to be separated by Pistols, SMG, Launchers, etc. 343 could separate pads based on function. For instance the Plasma pistol is much more in common with the Pulse Carbine than the Mangler:
- Plasma-based
- Tracking
- Shield stripping
- Weak on flesh
- Fast fire rate
- Overheat
The only things the PP and Mangler have in common are:
- Semi-auto
- Close range
- Faster Melee
Second, there was a pad on Deadlock that had a Disruptor, a Hydra and a Shock Rifle (I think this was changed in S2 to only be a Hydra, but I have to get more games on Deadlock). None of these guns traditionally share a pad, but there they were treated as an anti-vehicle pad.
This is the fundamental issue. Guns should be treated differently based on how they interact with the sandbox of any given map and even with the game type. Many of the issues people have with the Mangler stem from its abundance. Making it less available would help.
Ok, so this is the perspective from the upper-tier of ranked gameplay (the BR is not the most common weapon you will face in any other playlist), however all POVâs are respected.
From the perspective of very competitive ranked gameplay, in your opinion, would giving the Mangler the ability to disrupt a playerâs sprint (knock them out of sprint - not disable it), be too much?
From the perspective of casual gameplay, I will say I think itâs very rare a casual player is going to be picking up the Mangler for drop comboâs, especially when most of the gun play is vs AR or SK in close quarters (which have the potential to kill faster and are easier to use / more forgiving for casual players). This is the main point of the thread for me, can the Mangler have more function so it is a viable option for casual players?
The idea of the Mangler knocking players out of sprint is a subtle function that does not effect gun play much IMO (players can still shoot back and move the same as they always do when shooting back). The biggest effect will be felt by players trying to runaway (even players that are running away can still re-enter sprint in-between Mangler shots (why I would refer to it as a Sprint disruptor not a disabler) or players that are charging you (most likely with a sword).
At the end of the day here, Iâm trying to establish different effects for ammo-types.
-
Kinetic (Ballistic): Very fast precision projectiles. These weapons are commonly referred to as âHit-Scanâ and excel vs unshielded enemies.
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Kinetic (Spike): In the case of Halo Infinite, these hit hard, but they are susceptible to projectile lag / drop. I propose
knocking players out of sprint to be a feature (ties in to the âhit hardâ aspect and the lore of Spikes pinning enemies to surfaces, aka inhibiting movement). -
Kinetic (Explosive): Effective vs Vehicles. Iâd also like to see knock back brought in to all explosive weapons.
-
Kinetic (Crystaline): Capable of âSuper-Combiningâ.
-
Plasma: Excel vs Shields.
-
Hardlight: Good vs everything, usually the projectiles can peirce / bounce.
-
Shock: DoT (Disruptor), Slow (Dynamos), Chain Damage (Shock Rifle), alll EMP.
Huh, good to know. Itâs always interesting to see how different weapons are used at different skill bands.
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Considering Shotgun/Melee was a go-to combo in the Bungie era, when the Shotgun was considerably less consistent for OHKOs as it became on 4 and 5. And Plasma Rifle/melee and Brute Shot/Melee became defining for those weapons in Halo 3 I think itâs more than a gimmick. Itâs arming yourself for melee combat superiority. Mangler/Melee was this gameâs version of Brute Shot/Melee. The only difference is the Brute Shot was a tier 2 equivalent weapon.
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They could, they could, but they donât and thatâs the important part.
Oh 100%, but 343i clearly did not want to do that. It absolutely could have stayed at its old state JUST fine, if it spawned where the Shotguns do. Itâd still be the strictly better option, but itâd work there because itâd be the only option.
(I should note, Iâm higher tier too. Not as high as Dex but they donât 0/20 me in 1v1s, put it that way.)
(Which, side note, the new one is even better at doing.)
Bingo. (Well, that and AoE.)
Better than CE for sure. 2, 3, and Reach shotgun/melee was a pretty consistent combo though. But with the added benefit of the small (increasing each iteration) chance to actually one-shot.
The gun is generally still too strong to be used in high level ranked. Someone with a mangler in diamond or above should be winning almost all of their regular gunfights that arenât cross map. Granted itâs much less of an issue now that it doesnât also dominate close range, but that just goes to show you how strong the og mangler was.
Thatâs just too strong. If they take it out of competitive, sure, that type of buff is totally fine. Right now you canât buff a gun thatâs so strong at high level of play that people are refusing to use it out of morals.
You donât even need to do it for drop combos, swapping to the BR (or pistol in regards to casual play) will still win you the fight unless you are so close the AR and sidekick bloom is irrelevant. I think adding frames to make it so dropping the mangler is less effective is probably the best solution. It allows it to still function well as a pistol by itself (and I think itâs stronger than the sidekick at the moment, without dropping or swapping) without nerfing it for casuals.
Yes, they COULD change how weapon pads work but that isnât what is going to happen. They are going to stick to their system, (just like how they have the rigid damage type system) and theyâre just going to adjust the mangler as it stands in the sandbox. They MIGHT make an exception to make the mangler a unique weapon like the shotguns, SMGs and tactical rifles, where only one can be on the map at a time, but we will see.
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They donât have to CHANGE anything, just ADD more function to the pads. They can do both at the same time is what Iâm trying to say. On map Number 1, maybe they want you to go to yellow corner and get a pistol-type weapon, but on map Number 2 you can go to yellow corner a get an anti-shield weapon. They donât HAVE TO be separated by gun type, and they donât have to be separated by function. If this were any other Halo, 343 would have just increased the spawn timer and maybe moved the spawn location, but they canât do that without screwing up the plasma pistol and Disruptor.
I know that they can fix it easily, but they are going to stick to their system, and what that means is that any changes are most likely going to happen to the mangler itself. At the moment that will probably just be a removal from competitive.
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