Or… they could just un-nerf it and reverse the other changes to melee.
Doing so would:
Restore the mangler’s purpose in the sandbox
Better balance the AR and sidekick (people played less agro pre-nerfs)
Restore BR functionality (why bother meleeing with it at all if you need 3 shots and that’s the same amount needed to get a perfect)
Reduce the frequency of trades (when my melee lands -technically they have expired at this point- and yet theirs lands after they’re dead and it ends in a trade. I preferred the system the way it was before, based on damage. Now all it does is reward trades where unearned and highlights just how bad desync really is)
Edit: 4 shots is needed to get a perfect with the BR, but if you can get off 3 and are in melee range, you likely have taken enough damage to the point where it will end in a trade
The issue here is without a pro controller or playing on m&k, dropping a weapon is not a viable option with the default button layout since you have to take your thumb off the right stick to do so. After which, getting back on target is very difficult due to how AA works in infinite
Thats because their playing at the highest level of the game,
Where aim isn’t really a factor anymore.
343i decided to overbalanced the gun for the highest level of play, and made it basically unusable for casuals.
No one cares about competitive Halo,
Compare it to literally any other competitive scene, and no one give a crap about Halo as an E-Sport.
343i is so fricking stupid for trying to chase the scene.
The mangler is functionally banned in competitive play. 343 isn’t balancing it for pro play, they’re balancing it for casual play, because it was massively overtuned even if casuals enjoyed it.
I don’t get why you people are so obsessed with Combos, but all it does is add an annoying layer to casual play.
The Original combo of Plasma Pistol and Precision was a gimmick.
Turning other weapons that should stand up on their own into a combo Gimmick is so stupid.
I do not believe that, not even in little bit.
It was one of the few weapons that was a joy to use,
now I’d rather use the Sidekick over it, since its more reliable.
They over nerfed it, and there are options that will do a more outstanding job, without needing to Gimmick play them with other weapons. The AR is Still the Superior general weapon having the Skill Ceiling kissing the floor.
Also,
There are still other 1Tap1Slap weapons in the game,
All the Shotguns, Ravanger as well I believe. Landing a bodyshot with the sniper also puts you in 1slap range.
The Mangler only had the edge in that It had a much MUCH higher melee attack speed,
up against swords, you could reliably get a Kill Trade, and against hammers you could easily counter melee them.
Notice how none of the one shot melee weapons left are pistols. You know, on a 30 second respawn timer.
There is literally only one shotgun able to be on the map at one time but you can have 4-5 manglers at once, and this happened multiple times in ranked before people started refusing to use it.
Just shoot them twice. The game is better for the mangler nerf, use your bullets instead of having to melee everything. It’s not hard.
It really wasn’t tho.
The Maulers Range was painfully short.
Its Kill range was shorter than the shotgun even, And it couldn’t 1shot even at point blank range.
And there were very VERY few competitive maps it spawned on that would allow you to take advantage of its Brawling superiority. And it is entirely countered by Backpaddling while its user is running at you.
Legacy Mobility + Mostly Open map design lead to it having a Microscopic Niche in the weapon sandbox.
It was NEVER used in the same way the Mangler is.
The Mauler was an Objective Campers weapon, that would rather be traded out for something more reliable.
Like the Needler or the Shotgun.
I have NO idea where people getting the idea that the two are in anyway comparable aside from really superficial connections with each other.
No, I believe the suggestion was being knocked out of sprint. You can’t even shoot while sprinting anyways so this really wouldn’t change gunplay all that much. The most notable effect would be vs enemies running away / sword users charging you. I think it would be an interesting addition.
Actually, you can’t get a really fast 3 shot perfect. It takes 1.45s, which is a longer TTK than the AR (1.25s) and the SK (1.1s), while also being harder to hit a perfect with than the AR and SK… if you miss just one shot with Mangler the TTK is > 1.9 s, which is longer than the floor for the AR and SK as well so not only is the Mangler’s cieling lower but so is it’s floor.
The Mangler + SK combo has a TTK of 1.09s… in other words its the same as if you just used SK alone lol.
The Mangler + BR combo has a TTK of 1.29s… respectable, still worse than the SK and AR’s ceiling.
Compared to PP combo? 0.33s and 0.53s.
Pulse Carbine combo? 0.73s and 0.80s.
No matter which way you slice it, the Mangler has no use in the Sandbox. The claim that the Mangler is meant to be used as a Drop combo is absurd, the only reason it is used as a drop combo is because its better than just using the weapon alone! That doesn’t mean the Mangler is a good drop combo (the default weapons are literally on par with the drop combo) it just means the Mangler isn’t worth using at all.
And this is why the SK is broken. No starting weapon should have the fastest TTK of any non power weapons. The problem isn’t with the Mangler it’s with the SK.
True, I also advocate for changing the SK from 1 crit, 6 shield (1.1s) to 1 crit, 7 shield (1.25s). The SK’s function is a finisher with the fastest swap in the game, as such it shouldn’t also be the best stand alone Tier 1 weapon in the sandbox.
The AR would also then need a nerf because, the SK requires more skill so it should be rewarded. Even changing the AR from a 3 crit, 12 shield (1.25s) to a 3 crit, 13 shield (1.33s) would give the SK a slight edge… of course no one is going to get an AR perfect either.
If this was done, the Mangler would then be more viable, (still inferior unless you use the drop combo - which is not what the Mangler should be about IMO). Knocking enemies out of sprint would be such a minor change IMO, and like I said it wouldn’t effect gunplay just players trying to runaway / sword players charging you.
I’ve always seen this as the wrong mentality. While yes I can understand how it comes off as OP, I’ve always seen it as more of a defensive weapon when using the 1 shot + melee.
If someone is charging an enemy hoping to use the 1 tap + 1 smack, there’s a strong chance of them getting punished for it. For someone to pull off the melee successfully they also need to be at a closer distance than the sword due to a reduced lunge range. Out-playing someone who would attempt this was also very easy, I would frequently bait people to go for the melee and back up while firing at them. If it was instead used as a defensive weapon, it provided the ability for a player to achieve a reversal against an enemy challenging someone recklessly.
I’ve always felt that the nerf shouldn’t have happened but I could have been down with putting it on a pad with a longer respawn timer like the needler. Or, in the interest of enhancing its use as a defensive weapon, only provide the (i believe) 8 rounds that fit in it. Doing something like that coupled with an increased pad timer would reduce its over-use in the sandbox while fully embracing its potential as a reversal tool. This also would actively make others play more skillfully in a match, similar to how HCS competitors play.
Lastly, I hate how this impacted the BR in social along with all other weapons and their bleed through melee functionalities. Not to mention the other change that increased the prevalence of un-deserved trades.
This guarantees a Fastball medal which is one of the rarest ever.
Obviously these aren’t as quick/effective as the Tap & Slap, and they require extra equipment, but they are cooler IMO.
Personally I don’t think the Mauler is the solution. It was basically a weaksuace shotgun (*cough Bulldog *cough) but it was also the gun that benefited from dual wielding the most in H3. Having two gave it the makeshift power of a real shotgun.
Now the Speed Debuff is pretty interesting and also something I’ve been thinking about lately. But I was thinking of it as something for the Spiker actually. There’s a few ways to do this I think. Halo 5 had a mechanic where you could knock someone out of sprint if they hadn’t reached full speed yet. Maybe constant fire could lock sprint? The other option (which you said) is that sprint/base movement are slowed as long as the spikes are stuck in your spartan (kind of like Needles).
The proposal of Spike based weapons knocking players out of sprint would accomplish this without really making it OP offensively. This would give the Mangler the ability to defend against players rushing you (with sprint) or Sword users without effecting damage at all.
A middle ground perhaps you and @Liquid_Execute could meet on.
@Windjammer19 very good points, I actually love those fun combos that are now possible with the Mangler. I really don’t have an issue with the Mangler itself I just think it needs a little more function.
I also agree, the Mauler really isn’t that interesting, it is basically a useless weapon just capable of one tap one slap but is that really interesting? I would agree with you, no (maybe as a variant though).
I have settled on the idea that I think Spike based weapons should knock players out of sprint (doesn’t even have to disable sprint just disrupt it). For the Mangler this wouldnt change much (although it would make it effective vs sword users and a little more interesting in general) but like you said for an automatic weapon like a Spiker this could be very interesting and it is actually the driving point of the idea (why I said spike based weapons and not just the Mangler, even though its the only spike based weapon besides the Skewer currently in the game).
I don’t really find sprint to be the culprit so much, I mainly think its the sidekicks lightning fast fire-rate to damage output ratio. I am okay if people wanna charge me and play reckless (I even do it for fun sometimes) my issue is pre-update, there was a counter that could earn me a reversal if I was quick enough.
Post-update that counter is no longer viable and my only options are run away and try to nade them, or suddenly obtain spartan bot level of strafing ability while simultaneously having perfect aim using my sidekick returning fire, which at best -due to the other change to melee- will net be a trade.
Currently, if a person can master the sidekick at close quarters, the rest of the sandbox is useless to them and there is no effective counter to them without the reliability of the mangler’s 1 tap-1 smack. Even the bulldog and heatwave’s 1 shot + melee is not reliable enough to counter the sidekick due to how inconsistent that function works on those weapons. The br could defend against it if you caught the person early enough to get 2 shots all on target and then went for the melee. Now that doesn’t even work and going for a bleed-through melee with the BR will almost certainly (at best) end with a trade or most likely, just result in a death.