Weapon Mechanics Discussion

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So a few days ago, I started a thread to discuss some of the various iterations (or lack thereof) of mechanics throughout the games’ history. One of the topics was, as you can probably guess, how the weapon balance/sandbox has changed. With the talk of how interesting some weapons were in the past (and watching a linked vid to the CE mod ‘SPV3’), I got to thinking about ways to improve and diversify weapons in the next official installment. So here we go…

First off, I’d like to see the concept of headshots re-evaluated for some traditional precision weapons like the BR and Carbine. I think that given how these two operate (with the BR’s burst fire and the Carbine’s high rate-of-fire), accurate shot placement isn’t quite as important as it is with the DMR or Magnum yet landing an unshielded headshot yields the same effect for all of them. The penalty for missing a single shot isn’t as severe when a weapon fires three at a time or can fire significantly faster than others, so I propose making both the BR and Carbine require two unshielded headshots to kill. To clarify, I mean individual rounds for both weapons rather than complete bursts from the BR.

Next, I think we need to stop having so many direct counterparts from each faction. This is something CE (and to a lesser extent, Reach) did well to avoid, Even though CE only had a total of eight weapons (ten in Custom Edition for PC), which weapon you had arguably mattered more. The endeavor of making weapons that act as counterparts to one another is rather fruitless since its rarely going to matter whether you’re using ,say, a Sniper Rifle or Beam Rifle. An SMG or Plasma Rifle (circa H2-H3). The list goes on, unfortunately. Rather than having two long-ranged weapons that can kill with a single headshot (only differentiated by the reload/cooldown & ammo/battery), why not have one and make another long-ranged weapon that operates more distinctly? For the sake of this example, remember Reach’s Focus Rifle, Similarly, look at CE’s iterations of the AR and Plasma Rifle and how they compare.

Lastly (for now at least), I think the weapon sandbox could use move variants on weapons in circulation. By this, I mean more like the Plasma Rifle and Brute Plasma Rifle in H2, rather than defined tiers where one variant of a weapon clearly outperforms another. Something I really took a liking to in the SPV3 video linked above is that there are variants of the Plasma Pistol, with the Brute Plasma Pistol given an area-of-effect damage overcharge. Seeing that and the gravity-manipulating grenades in the same mod reminded me of the Void’s Tear REQ variant and got me thinking… Why not focus on making a singular weapon model and making it operate in different ways, rather than making multiple weapon models that work almost identically? 343i has already boarded this train of thought with the REQ system, but obviously many of the variants available should stay as “special” to maintain weapon balance and a need for skilled use.

Well if you’ve gotten this far, thanks for reading the ramblings of a sleep-deprived fan. Please share your thoughts, opinions, and ideas of your own. Hope to have an interesting discussion… after I get some sleep.

2

I personally am fine with the counter parts though you do make a good point that too many that fill the same role can be a bad thing. Now I think as long a s they inherently function differently with the positives and negatives paired with the changes I’m fine with it. The scattershot and shotgun for example, both inherently fill the same role but one possesses less initial damage yet can effectively round corners with tracking shots. It can be used differently and that’s the key thing that needs to exist if multiple weapons exist within the same role.

I’m also one of those people that thinks only the base model should exist in arena, just my preference. Having different variations is fine but not in the arena sandbox.

3

I disagree with your point about head shots. The Br and Carbine are designed to be better weapons than the Magnum. Missing a shot with a magnum is more critical as opposed to the Br and Carbine, because it is an inferior weapon. As for the DMR, it is designed to be a mid-long range weapon. Using it against a Br or Carbine in close range is more critical because it isn’t meant to function in such a range. After a certain distance missing shots against a Br and Carbine becomes less critical due to how inaccurate the Br and Carbine become.

Your second point seems to be a matter of preference. Some players enjoy seeing weapon counterparts in other factions, others don’t. Each counter part in Halo 5 performs more distinctly than in previous entries. Most counter parts have subtle nuances from each other that alter how they should be used. This ties into your third point, while the faction counter part weapons are not exact variations of other weapons, they do perform as variations. For example the “rocket” class of weapons, each provide a subtle variety. The human launcher provides decent area of effect for decent rate of fire. The fuel rode provides little area of effect, for high rate of fire. The incin canon provides high area of effect for low rate of fire.

Warzone variants of weapons have made an appearance in arena, it might be possible to see more down the line if you are so inclined to see exact variants of weapons as opposed to faction counter parts.

4

> 2533274840624875;2:
> I personally am fine with the counter parts though you do make a good point that too many that fill the same role can be a bad thing. Now I think as long as they inherently function differently with the positives and negatives paired with the changes I’m fine with it. The scattershot and shotgun for example, both inherently fill the same role but one possesses less initial damage yet can effectively round corners with tracking shots. It can be used differently and that’s the key thing that needs to exist if multiple weapons exist within the same role.
>
> I’m also one of those people that thinks only the base model should exist in arena, just my preference. Having different variations is fine but not in the arena sandbox.

Interesting how you bring up the Shotgun/Scattershot. I really dislike the Scattershot because it functions as a sub-par shotgun with a very niche ability. Shots ricocheting around corners and tracking towards nearby enemies doesn’t really help the user often and any player can accomplish the same effect just by throwing a frag grenade or two around the corner instead. Why have an inferior shotgun whose distinguishing feature’s effect can be done by anyone off spawn?

When I mentioned having weapon variants outside of Warzone, I meant like how both the Plasma Rifle and Brute Plasma Rifle could be found in Halo. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter if the weapons look the same so long as they function differently and can be identified by different colors, sounds, and HUD icons. Imagine having three Plasma Pistol variants: classic EMP, Brute-themed AOE, and Vortex (a more balanced Void’s Tear). Again, I’m not suggesting there be variants that are clear improvements over the “base”/classic models. How would this hurt an Arena setting?

5

> 2717573882290912;3:
> I disagree with your point about head shots. The Br and Carbine are designed to be better weapons than the Magnum. Missing a shot with a magnum is more critical as opposed to the Br and Carbine, because it is an inferior weapon. As for the DMR, it is designed to be a mid-long range weapon. Using it against a Br or Carbine in close range is more critical because it isn’t meant to function in such a range. After a certain distance missing shots against a Br and Carbine becomes less critical due to how inaccurate the Br and Carbine become.
>
> Your second point seems to be a matter of preference. Some players enjoy seeing weapon counterparts in other factions, others don’t. Each counter part in Halo 5 performs more distinctly than in previous entries. Most counter parts have subtle nuances from each other that alter how they should be used. This ties into your third point, while the faction counter part weapons are not exact variations of other weapons, they do perform as variations. For example the “rocket” class of weapons, each provide a subtle variety. The human launcher provides decent area of effect for decent rate of fire. The fuel rode provides little area of effect, for high rate of fire. The incin canon provides high area of effect for low rate of fire.
>
> Warzone variants of weapons have made an appearance in arena, it might be possible to see more down the line if you are so inclined to see exact variants of weapons as opposed to faction counter parts.

I disagree with your assumption that one (non-power) weapon should be deliberately inferior to another, especially if both operate on the same basis (like being a headshot-capable precision weapon).

As for the DMR statement, its not about whether or not the BR/Carbine should be able to outmatch the DMR at closer ranges, but rather how they are able to outmatch it. As it stands, once the DMR user’s shields are down the BR/Carbine user just has to land a single shot (same as the DMR) but can put down shots so much faster. Your argument that its fine as is because the BR/Carbine aren’t as accurate as a DMR doesn’t work for me. If we took an AR and gave it headshot capabilities, then is it fine because its not as accurate as some other headshot-capable weapons that don’t fire as quickly?

How does the Storm Rifle differ from the AR more than CE’s Plasma Rifle differs from its AR? How does the Beam Rifle differ from the Sniper Rifle more than Reach’s Focus Rifle does? How do weapons like the Suppressor and Needler differ mechanically in Halo 5?

The rocket trinity you mentioned could have so much more to it than just RoF/blast radius trade-offs, though. The Fuel Rod Gun could emphasize bouncing the projectiles by giving them a damage buff after bouncing. The Incineration Cannon could leave a lasting effect where it hit that damages people who walk through it. Just spit-balling there, but you get the idea. Why not make additional weapons (alien weapons, no less) function as more than just a lighter or heavier Rocket Launcher?

6

Your ideas for the BR and Carbine are good, though to be blunt I’d rather those guns were just straight up canned.

Counterparts are stupid because more unique weapons could be made instead and because they make what unique weapons that already exist less special. To a degree they’re unavoidable (Campaign enemies need something to shoot you with at any given range), but even still we don’t need four different extended-range rifles. Especially when in Halo Ce the Plasma Rifle already filled that purpose for the Covenant while being entirely unique in the process. I’m sure they could think of better ideas than “orange rifle” or “blue SMG” when it comes to weapons. Example, the Sentinel Beam in Halo 2 is the Forerunner’s equivalent of a long-range weapon, and no other weapon is like it.

The sandbox should be relatively small in scale, with each weapon fulfilling a unique role and/or function. Example the Shotgun and Gravity Hammer fill essentially the same role but are night and day in function.

I would like to see some Warzone variants in Arena, as well as Campaign. Some of them are quite exotic, which is a good thing.

7

> 2533274819302824;6:
> Your ideas for the BR and Carbine are good, though to be blunt I’d rather those guns were just straight up canned.
>
> Counterparts are stupid because more unique weapons could be made instead and because they make what unique weapons that already exist less special. To a degree they’re unavoidable (Campaign enemies need something to shoot you with at any given range), but even still we don’t need four different extended-range rifles. Especially when in Halo Ce the Plasma Rifle already filled that purpose for the Covenant while being entirely unique in the process. I’m sure they could think of better ideas than “orange rifle” or “blue SMG” when it comes to weapons. Example, the Sentinel Beam in Halo 2 is the Forerunner’s equivalent of a long-range weapon, and no other weapon is like it.
>
> The sandbox should be relatively small in scale, with each weapon fulfilling a unique role and/or function. Example the Shotgun and Gravity Hammer fill essentially the same role but are night and day in function.
>
> I would like to see some Warzone variants in Arena, as well as Campaign. Some of them are quite exotic, which is a good thing.

Honestly I’d rather keep the Magnum and BR, drop the Carbine and DMR, and reintroduce the Needle Rifle (or introduce something similar). The Magnum and DMR operate too similarly for my tastes (only real distinction is the DMR’s scope), whereas the BR has a different firing mode and at least the potential to damage multiple targets with a single burst. With the Needle Rifle reintroduced, the Covenant would have something other than their sniper for longer ranges and the sandbox still has a slow RoF precision weapon that excels at ranges past the Magnum or BR.

Speaking of the Covenant’s answer to the Sniper Rifle, I’d like to see the Focus Rifle return as well… perhaps with a headshot multiplier and ‘stun’ effect with continuous fire like CE’s PR had. What do you think would be a good approach in regards to the automatic weapons or rocket launchers?

I recall a few of the REQ variants of some weapons appeared in H5’s campaign (aside from Oathsworn and Nornfang, of course), though they were few and far between. I’d definitely prefer to see weapon variants have more of a presence in the next game, with enemies using them as well.

8

Not really a fan of the Needle Rifle either, essentially Purple-DMR.

In Halo Ce the Fuel Rod Cannon was the Covenant’s long range weapon. Very fast travel speed, but heavily arcing, so its like a mortar. In multiplayer it killed in 2-3 shots. They completely reworked it in Halo 2 to be an extremely slow, straight traveling weapon, and it’s been that way ever since. Who even knows why they did half of what they did in Halo 2…

Automatics depend on a case by case basis. Plasma Weapons require proficient shot leading at range, and historically arena shooters have had accurate and effective projectile automatics that require skill. I see no reason Halo should be any different.

Bullet-based weapons like the SMG do not require much effort in comparison. So they should be relegated to CQC niche scenarios. If the current SMG had the AR’s killtime it would be fine. It would have an edge in CQC without being overpowered, and it would be useful for shredding through multiple opponents. Maybe give it a movement speed bonus too. The point of hitscan automatics I feel should be ease of use within their niche and utility applications, not raw killing power. The CE AR, although theoretically slower than the Ce Magnum, still possessed an edge in CQC because of these qualities.

I’ll comment on explosives later.

9

> 2533274819302824;8:
> Not really a fan of the Needle Rifle either, essentially Purple-DMR.
>
> In Halo Ce the Fuel Rod Cannon was the Covenant’s long range weapon. Very fast travel speed, but heavily arcing, so its like a mortar. In multiplayer it killed in 2-3 shots.

A projectile-based DMR that can be fired in full-auto, yes (minor details in practice I know). I don’t think scrapping the Covenant’s only non-sniper precision weapon would work well in the context of Campaign. The Needle Rifle, being a “DMR in Covenant’s clothes,” can solve that issue without making a completely redundant addition by taking the DMR’s place.

Can’t say I’ve used CE’s FRC (although somehow I know it was battery-based), but the idea of having a weapon whose projectiles travel very quickly and have a blast radius doesn’t appeal to ignorant me as much as something like the Focus Rifle/Sentinel Beam. May have to boot up the MCC to take a look and make a more informed opinion, but that’s my first impression on the matter.

Something I’ve been thinking of in regards to the FRC is making it operate similarly to the “pro-pipe”, allowing players to fire the arcing projectile and control its detonation by holding the trigger. Without holding the trigger, it would work about the same as it currently does but with a smaller blast radius. Its full potential in terms of damage/blast radius would only be tapped if controlling when to detonate (same context as the pro-pipe’s EMP).

> 2533274819302824;8:
> Automatics depend on a case by case basis. Plasma Weapons require proficient shot leading at range, and historically arena shooters have had accurate projectile automatics that require skill. I see no reason Halo should be any different.
>
> Bullet-based weapons like the SMG do not require much effort in comparison. So they should be relegated to CQC niche scenarios. If the current SMG had the AR’s killtime it would be fine. It would have an edge in CQC without being overpowered, and it would be useful for shredding through multiple opponents. Maybe give it a movement speed bonus too. The point of hitscan automatics I feel should be ease of use within their niche and utility applications, not raw killing power. The CE AR, although theoretically slower than the Ce Magnum, still possessed an edge in CQC because of these qualities.

I agree with this 100%. Very sound reasoning.

10

> 2533274819302824;8:
> I’ll comment on explosives later.

With that, could you also share your thoughts on grenades? Any ideas for new grenade types or changes to how the existing grenades currently perform?

11

I’m beginning to sound like a broken record but again, Halo Ce.

Grenades could be thrown very long distances, and would very quickly settle to a stop instead of bouncing all over. This allowed skillful use of them, and it made tactics like weapon launching actually feasible.

A nitpick I have is that because of Thruster and Sprint taking up specific buttons we can no longer swap grenades in-combat. You know, try hitting one of the D-Pad buttons as you’re trying to aim and strafe, it can’t be done. And that’s bad because typically you’re not swapping grenades before or after a fight, you’re doing it during the fight as the dynamics change. Especially adding insult to injury considering I don’t even want those mechanics in the first place.

Grenades, like everything else, should be unique in purpose. Yet we also can’t have too many as then swapping between them becomes a nuisance, three types is ideal but four types is acceptable. The past few games we’ve basically had frags, plasmas, and then a third dedicated area denial grenade that did its job to varying degrees of success. Problem I have with that is the former two already have the potential to be efficient at area denial, and could potentially be reworked to be even more efficient. So maybe the third grenade could be replaced with something else.

The Mod in my signature has some pretty interesting ideas (and not just concerning grenades either). There’s a gravity grenade that sucks in objects and enemies, then explodes thrusting them outwards. There’s a fuel rod grenade that explodes into a cluster of grenades. There’s even specific weapons that replace your grenades with an under-barrel grenade launcher (same power as a frag but more ammo and explodes on impact). I would actually like to see that concept explored in arena play.

Still thinking about Rocket Launchers. One idea I had for the Fuel Rod Cannon is that it could increase in damage the longer the projectile travels.

12

> 2533274819302824;11:
> I’m beginning to sound like a broken record but again, Halo Ce.
>
> Grenades could be thrown very long distances, and would very quickly settle to a stop instead of bouncing all over. This allowed skillful use of them, and it made tactics like weapon launching actually feasible.
>
> A nitpick I have is that because of Thruster and Sprint taking up specific buttons we can no longer swap grenades in-combat. You know, try hitting one of the D-Pad buttons as you’re trying to aim and strafe, it can’t be done. And that’s bad because typically you’re not swapping grenades before or after a fight, you’re doing it during the fight as the dynamics change.
>
> Grenades, like everything else, should be unique in purpose. Yet we also can’t have too many as then swapping between them becomes a nuisance, three types is ideal but four types is acceptable. The past few games we’ve basically had frags, plasmas, and then a third dedicated area denial grenade that did its job to varying degrees of success. Problem I have with that is the former two already have the potential to be efficient at area denial, and could potentially be reworked to be even more efficient. So maybe the third grenade could be replaced with something else.
>
> The Mod in my signature has some pretty interesting ideas (and not just concerning grenades either). There’s a gravity grenade that sucks in objects and enemies, then explodes thrusting them outwards. There’s a fuel rod grenade that explodes into a cluster of grenades. There’s even specific weapons that replace your grenades with an under-barrel grenade launcher.
>
> Still thinking about Rocket Launchers. One idea I had for the Fuel Rod Cannon is that it could increase in damage the longer the projectile travels.

Well, a good game’s a good game. I thought it was interesting how they added the “Combat Evolved” medal in H5, yet didn’t do much to make the tactic of weapon launching more viable.

I think we can all agree that something needs to be done to make swapping grenades more practical/feasible in combat. What do you think about the limit of grenades that can be carried?

Something that may be interesting to consider would be grenade types that do something other than deal damage. Just tossing ideas around, but imagine having non-lethal grenade types similar to the Equipment of Halo 3 (grenade that emits a regen field, creates a grav lift, etc).

I’ve seen glimpses of that gravity grenade in action, thought it was very interesting. The fuel rod grenade, less so. It reminds me of the relative redundancy of the spike grenades in H3, considering they were essentially just plasma grenades that could stick to walls. I can’t imagine the clustered explosion of a fuel rod grenade being too different from a frag. The under-barrel grenade launcher concept does sound promising. I could see it being something that could further distinguish the likes of the BR from the Magnum.

On the subject of distance-based damage, have you ever considered giving something similar to weapons like the Plasma Rifle/Storm Rifle? Rather than making the shots stronger with distance, do you think making them weaken at longer ranges (somewhere after mid-range) would serve as a better alternative to something like bloom or indefinite spread?

13

I’m not against non-lethal grenade-like items by any means, I just don’t know about making them into grenades. If all of Halo 3’s equipment was made into grenades you’d have like ten grenade types. I’d implement the aspects of some equipment into weapons instead where possible.

Yeah you’re right about cluster grenades. Since you brought up equipment the original version of that map actually had EMP grenades that drained shields in a certain radius and disabled vehicles.

I don’t think Plasma Weapons need any sort of nerf at range whatsoever. The nature of their projectiles already severely restricts their usefulness at range. Not only is it hard to lead slow-moving projectiles at long distances (and thus justifiable of having a decent damage reward), but by nature of being slow moving they can simply be dodged by the opponent effortlessly after a certain point is reached. So it makes no sense to me to give these weapons bloom or spread, let alone damage drop-off, when they already inherently limit themselves at range.

Grenade limits…I’m not sure how to feel about that one. Kind of ties into overarching game design (how powerful the player is off-spawn, how much you want to avoid snowball advantages, how effective the nades themselves are). I’d say high maximum limits are acceptable if the player has to work towards that limit. Say you spawn with one frag and can hold four. You’re thus rewarded in a meaningful way over other people for staying alive and traversing the map, grenade spawns are desirable. And typically only one person is going to have that many nades at any given point because there’s only so many on the map and the amount you spawn with is so low, so it’s not just constant nade spam. Take that same limit with two, three, or even four starting grenades and things start to get increasingly ridiculous. Guess I’m saying I care far more about your spawn grenades than your maximum grenades.

Ce is again responsible for my views on nades. In that game you could really buff the hell out of yourself if you played properly, and some maps had multiple power ups on the same map (Wizard had FOUR). Things that would be considered insane by people conditioned by modern Halo. Yet back then it worked because the player was in himself powerful (another topic I could rant for ages about). Plus, y’know, traditional arena shooters are kind of about securing tons of map items for an advantage to begin with…

14

> 2533274819302824;13:
> I’m not against non-lethal grenade-like items by any means, I just don’t know about making them into grenades. If all of Halo 3’s equipment was made into grenades you’d have like ten grenade types. I’d implement the aspects of some equipment into weapons instead where possible.
>
> Yeah you’re right about cluster grenades. Since you brought up equipment the original version of that map actually had EMP grenades that drained shields in a certain radius and disabled vehicles.

Oh, of course I meant only one or two equipment items being converted into grenades (leaning mostly on the regen field). I wouldn’t want a player to have so many options available on their person at once any more than you would. I don’t think that it would make much sense to put such items into a separate classification, since that would imply needing to use a different button/input to use them and the controls are already rather crowded.

As you said, it’d be best to implement any applicable aspects into weapons. An idea I just thought of was giving the Gravity Hammer a secondary attack that creates a temporary gravity lift at the cost of more battery charge than a typical swing. This would be useful for reaching higher ground and launching oncoming vehicles/projectiles into the air (but retaining that projectiles can also be redirected by a well-timed basic swing).

To an extent, I believe functions like an EMP would be best left to a single item in the sandbox, giving that item more of a purpose. As the Plasma Pistol already has the EMP ability, I don’t think that would be the best use of the more limited grenade slots.

> 2533274819302824;13:
> I don’t think Plasma Weapons need any sort of nerf at range whatsoever. The nature of their projectiles already severely restricts their usefulness at range. Not only is it hard to lead slow-moving projectiles at long distances (and thus justifiable of having a decent damage reward), but by nature of being slow moving they can simply be dodged by the opponent effortlessly after a certain point is reached. So it makes no sense to me to give these weapons bloom or spread, let alone damage drop-off, when they already inherently limit themselves at range.

Good point, honestly. If someone is being stationary and oblivious long enough to be killed by a Storm Rifle user at longer ranges, they deserve the death. Not much reason to penalize the attacker to give the (hopefully AFK) player even more time to move,

> 2533274819302824;13:
> Grenade limits…I’m not sure how to feel about that one. Kind of ties into overarching game design (how powerful the player is off-spawn, how much you want to avoid snowball advantages, how effective the nades themselves are). I’d say high maximum limits are acceptable if the player has to work towards that limit. Say you spawn with one frag and can hold four. You’re thus rewarded in a meaningful way over other people for staying alive and traversing the map, grenade spawns are desirable. And typically only one person is going to have that many nades at any given point because there’s only so many on the map and the amount you spawn with is so low, so it’s not just constant nade spam. Take that same limit with two, three, or even four starting grenades and things start to get increasingly ridiculous. Guess I’m saying I care far more about your spawn grenades than your maximum grenades.
>
> Ce is again responsible for my views on nades. In that game you could really buff the hell out of yourself if you played properly, and some maps had multiple power ups on the same map (Wizard had FOUR). Things that would be considered insane by people conditioned by modern Halo. Yet back then it worked because the player was in himself powerful (another topic I could rant for ages about). Plus, y’know, traditional arena shooters are kind of about securing tons of map items for an advantage to begin with…

I can definitely see where you’re coming from regarding the grenade inventory limits, especially since there’s no way to give any definite answer without knowing exactly how the hypothetical grenades would behave. As for the grenade launcher attachment in the SPV3 mod, do you recall if it launches the grenade regardless of which grenade type is currently selected and subtracts a frag or if it only functions if the frag grenade is selected? Which method of operation do you feel would work best?

I really wish I’d experienced CE in its heyday… Halo 2 was my first, though even that was short-lived. H3 was the first Halo title I really got into and looking back, it certainly wasn’t the brightest in the bunch.

15

I’ve always been irritated by weapons that charge up that fire on their own and can’t be cancled not firing after death.

And friendly fire off ruins the gameplay for me cause with it off people are using and spamming things that would of other wise got them and their team killed.

16

> 2533274962122285;15:
> I’ve always been irritated by weapons that charge up that fire on their own and can’t be cancled not firing after death.
>
> And friendly fire off ruins the gameplay for me cause with it off people are using and spamming things that would of other wise got them and their team killed.

What weapon in Halo’s sandbox have you had that problem with? The only one I can think you might be talking about is the Railgun, but you can always cancel its charge-up before it fires by either releasing the trigger or changing weapons. As for weapons not firing after death, why should you be able to get the kill if you didn’t take the shot and you were just killed?

Something I’d consider is having any friendly fire inflict damage on the shooter, rather than the receiver. Discourages using weapons with reckless abandon around teammates, but does so without the potential for betrayals which can lead to booting… which leads to uneven teams (obviously a bad thing). What’s more is that this would arguably be more effective at promoting cautious use of weapons like grenades and rockets, as people will generally care more about themselves dying than they will people they may not even know.

17

> 2535440283237581;16:
> > 2533274962122285;15:
> > I’ve always been irritated by weapons that charge up that fire on their own and can’t be cancled not firing after death.
> >
> > And friendly fire off ruins the gameplay for me cause with it off people are using and spamming things that would of other wise got them and their team killed.
>
>
> What weapon in Halo’s sandbox have you had that problem with? The only one I can think you might be talking about is the Railgun, but you can always cancel its charge-up before it fires by either releasing the trigger or changing weapons. As for weapons not firing after death, why should you be able to get the kill if you didn’t take the shot and you were just killed?
>
> Something I’d consider is having any friendly fire inflict damage on the shooter, rather than the receiver. Discourages using weapons with reckless abandon around teammates, but does so without the potential for betrayals which can lead to booting… which leads to uneven teams (obviously a bad thing). What’s more is that this would arguably be more effective at promoting more cautious use of weapons like grenades and rockets, as people will generally care more about themselves dying than they will care about people they may not even know dying.

Charge weapons have always had a point where if you release the trigger it goes off before it would have on its own. Getting killed at the point of where if you released the trigger the weapon should have gone off. Doesn’t matter if you were alive or not if the weapon is ready to fire and you release the trigger it should go off.

18

> 2533274962122285;17:
> > 2535440283237581;16:
> > > 2533274962122285;15:
> > > I’ve always been irritated by weapons that charge up that fire on their own and can’t be cancled not firing after death.
> >
> >
> > What weapon in Halo’s sandbox have you had that problem with? The only one I can think you might be talking about is the Railgun, but you can always cancel its charge-up before it fires by either releasing the trigger or changing weapons. As for weapons not firing after death, why should you be able to get the kill if you didn’t take the shot and you were just killed?
>
>
> Charge weapons have always had a point where if you release the trigger it goes off before it would have on its own. Getting killed at the point of where if you released the trigger the weapon should have gone off. Doesn’t matter if you were alive or not if the weapon is ready to fire and you release the trigger it should go off.

Name one weapon other than the Railgun that works like this. The Plasma Pistol doesn’t have a point where it fires an overcharge without releasing the trigger (unless its battery is completely drained), while the Spartan Laser fires immediately when its charge completes.

If your opponent took you out before you decided to take your shot, I’d say you have no more reason to get the kill with a charge-able weapon than any other weapon type. If the weapon wasn’t ready to fire, you have no one to blame but yourself. If the weapon was able to fire and you chose not to, you have no one to blame but yourself. If you’re talking from a “realistic” point, it can be assumed that there’s a safety mechanism to prevent potential friendly fire post-death.

19

> 2535440283237581;18:
> > 2533274962122285;17:
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> > > > I’ve always been irritated by weapons that charge up that fire on their own and can’t be cancled not firing after death.
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> > > What weapon in Halo’s sandbox have you had that problem with? The only one I can think you might be talking about is the Railgun, but you can always cancel its charge-up before it fires by either releasing the trigger or changing weapons. As for weapons not firing after death, why should you be able to get the kill if you didn’t take the shot and you were just killed?
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> > Charge weapons have always had a point where if you release the trigger it goes off before it would have on its own. Getting killed at the point of where if you released the trigger the weapon should have gone off. Doesn’t matter if you were alive or not if the weapon is ready to fire and you release the trigger it should go off.
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> Name one weapon other than the Railgun that works like this. The Plasma Pistol doesn’t have a point where it fires without releasing the trigger (unless its battery is completely drained), while the Spartan Laser fires immediately when its charge completes.

You don’t have to hold on to the trigger. I’ll explain it step by step. You have a weapon that charges up but if you release the trigger at a certain point in that weapons charge up cycle it goes off. So if you charged that weapon up and you died at the point where when the weapon was charged enough to go off because the trigger was released it should go off.

Rail gun has a small window of releasing the trigger as it charges to go off quicker, plasma pistol and incineration cannon have a large window for releasing the trigger to shoot a charged shot.

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> You have a weapon that charges up but if you release the trigger at a certain point in that weapons charge up cycle it goes off.

You do not fire a charged shot by releasing the trigger during a weapon’s charge-up time. The designated charge-up period must complete before a charged shot will be fired. These weapons allow you to maintain a charged shot to varying degrees, but that’s not the same as “releasing the trigger at a certain point in that weapon’s charge-up cycle”.

For the Railgun, you cannot make it fire prematurely. It has a brief time it can maintain its charge before automatically firing, and during this time you can release the trigger to fire it manually, thus shooting faster than if the charge is automatically fired.

For the Plasma Pistol, it will fire whenever you release the trigger but you cannot make it fire an overcharge prematurely. The charge-up period has a set time and after that the overcharge can be fired manually by releasing the trigger. It will only fire on its own upon complete battery depletion while overcharge is held.

For the Incineration Cannon, it will fire whenever you release the trigger but you cannot make it fire a charged shot prematurely. It has a defined time period before it can fire a charged shot.