We want more info on "armor coating".

Games Halo Infinite
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> > > > > > So the main thread was locked then redirected to another locked thread (this thread) because previous thread was redirected to the original locked thread. now redirected thread has been unlocked so im reposting to keep the discussion going on this new locked/unlocked thread.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just a theory but if you “read between the lines” I think it may have some merit to it:With the armor coating scandal out of the bag, I saw a few posts on whether this could implicate the removal of the traditional Red v Blue teams. Now from my understanding of Destiny 2, multiplayer for that game is kept with whatever custom armor you choose across the board. Now with these armor coatings being closely similar to the Destiny shader system, I think it would only be fair to say this might possibly be the end of Red v Blue teams as well and here is why.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -343i latest update to the community said that these armor coatings are in fact replacing the traditional color your Spartan method
> > > > > > -It has been proposed/brought up that you should be able to color your spartans based on the specific armor coating however since the marketing and layout of these are pretty much guaranteed; i came to the conclusion that if you “cant” choose your colors then the color system would be out of the window. IF the color system is out of the window and you cannot change the color of Armor Coatings then there wouldnt be an option in the game to do so THEREFORE if the option isnt there then 343i wouldnt have the ability to take armor coatings and make them into the traditional Red v Blue for team matchups (IE throwing red or blue over top of the coating to represent the team in team games). This would then fall in line with the theory of copying what Destiny has done with its multiplayer system. Hate to say it folks but the logic is there and pretty easy to follow…we might be saying RIP to the Red v Blue teams as well as personalizing Spartan color choices.
> > > > >
> > > > > Crazy analysis. I did not expect this kind of drama coming on to the site tonight.
> > > >
> > > > not sure how much “drama” can be derived from a post clearly announced as speculation and theory??? especially with how many of these other posts ‘explode’
> > >
> > > The selective reading is what does it for me.
> >
> > Not sure if you’re implying ‘you’ have selective reading or what…troll along though
>
> No I’m just reading everyone else’s post and it seems to blow by any speculation or theory you announced.

most of the time people decide to banter one another rather than being constructive in their pursuits…similar to what you’re doing. I wasn’t aware that my posts needed any more attention than others but I am glad you felt persuaded enough to comment on it with zero input, let alone anything constructive or disproving it.

566

> 2533274868747146;554:
> Are you sure the people defending 343I aren’t the people that have played a varied more games and understand a direction the developer is trying to come across?

Free to play game with a variation of different microtransaction to sell to the players.

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> you would call anyone with an objective/mindset regarding this as a blind loyal fan I’d say to you have you played a game with a similar system? was there much concern within that game and you do know that Free to play multiplayer’s need a source of income as money doesn’t grow on trees and like most people who have played either a MMO or games as a service would see this kind of micro-transaction appearing along with other similar ideas.

Nobody’s disputing that there’ll be microtransactions, the issue is that a perfectly functional system we’ve had for years is being torn out of the game and replaced with a far more limited way of selecting how we look.

> 2533274868747146;554:
> also the idea that halo infinite would be some sort of farmineville cash grab and you’d be paying for each and every bullet like GTA 5 online for example is ridiculous as features and mechanics for it wouldn’t make any sense.

And Halo 5 leaned heavily towards loot boxes, dedicating an entire mode for those things, even not implementing BTB to promote the whole mode. Am I correct when I say there still aren’t any developer made BTB maps?
Halo Wars 2 had a card-game-mode shoved into it, a card game, with purchasible card packs.
Both pay-to-play games.
Think it was Forza 7, which had loot boxes implemented, containing cosmetic items for the drivers.
The GoW series has seen its fair share of different monetization systems in place as well.

Now Halo Infinite’s multiplayer is going free to play, and they’ve said the game will last for 10 years.
I would not be surprised if there’s a plethora of different items up in the storefront, and that’d they’d be somewhat in-your-face about it.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I’d rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Who says you can’t?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn’t behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Come on people, use your heads, we’ve all seen how this F2P crap works.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Personally, I’m just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --Arbiter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don’t fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is blind support and hype “more productive” then being critical? Enjoying a product doesn’t mean you accept anything that is given to you simply because it has the name of that product on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where’s the blind support? It points to reason to wait to hear the full information before losing your mind over partial information and jumping to conclusions :slight_smile:
> > > >
> > > > But it’s not us jumping to conclusions that they took out classic customization in favor for shaders, many of which are confirmed to be paywalled, even if temporarily. There’s no speculation in those facts, and that is what we’re mad about.
> > >
> > > Fair enough, but while they did confirm coatings would replace primary/secondary color options, we don’t know the full extent of what WILL be available. It could be better than what we had, it could be worse. We truly don’t know and I personally want to see what it is before panicking.
> >
> > In my opinion the matter of having to unlock our colors, free or paid, is objectively worse in almost every way. I can see about 3 options with how it’s gonna go:
> > - Destiny 1 shaders that color the entire set - Destiny 2 shaders where we can color individual pieces where shaders are unlimited use - Destiny 2 shaders where we color individual pieces but the coatings are single use, like Destiny 2I just want the ability to choose my colors without hoping for RNJesus to grace me with a steel and sage coating, if it even exists that is. Because now the colors that people have used for years have a decent chance of not even being in the game. So I personally will not wait for more to come out before stating my immense dissatisfaction with this objectively worse system.
>
> TBH I never played Destiny and I don’t know what a shader is, but I will say to the RNG point that I believe 343i confirmed no loot boxes or REQ packs in Infinite. That said, I don’t know if they have to only follow the three options like in Destiny or if they have their own unique approach, but I’ll wait before getting too upset.

In Destiny you get shaders from world activities, decryptable engrams from enemy drops, rewards for missions, etc. But it is always random, so you just have to wish you get the shader you want to use. That’s what I meant with the RNG part. For example there are many I’d love to use but since I never got them from dumb luck I’m basically out of luck, which sucks. I really don’t want to see Halo go down that path.

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> > > > > > > So the main thread was locked then redirected to another locked thread (this thread) because previous thread was redirected to the original locked thread. now redirected thread has been unlocked so im reposting to keep the discussion going on this new locked/unlocked thread.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just a theory but if you “read between the lines” I think it may have some merit to it:With the armor coating scandal out of the bag, I saw a few posts on whether this could implicate the removal of the traditional Red v Blue teams. Now from my understanding of Destiny 2, multiplayer for that game is kept with whatever custom armor you choose across the board. Now with these armor coatings being closely similar to the Destiny shader system, I think it would only be fair to say this might possibly be the end of Red v Blue teams as well and here is why.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -343i latest update to the community said that these armor coatings are in fact replacing the traditional color your Spartan method
> > > > > > > -It has been proposed/brought up that you should be able to color your spartans based on the specific armor coating however since the marketing and layout of these are pretty much guaranteed; i came to the conclusion that if you “cant” choose your colors then the color system would be out of the window. IF the color system is out of the window and you cannot change the color of Armor Coatings then there wouldnt be an option in the game to do so THEREFORE if the option isnt there then 343i wouldnt have the ability to take armor coatings and make them into the traditional Red v Blue for team matchups (IE throwing red or blue over top of the coating to represent the team in team games). This would then fall in line with the theory of copying what Destiny has done with its multiplayer system. Hate to say it folks but the logic is there and pretty easy to follow…we might be saying RIP to the Red v Blue teams as well as personalizing Spartan color choices.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Crazy analysis. I did not expect this kind of drama coming on to the site tonight.
> > > > >
> > > > > not sure how much “drama” can be derived from a post clearly announced as speculation and theory??? especially with how many of these other posts ‘explode’
> > > >
> > > > The selective reading is what does it for me.
> > >
> > > Not sure if you’re implying ‘you’ have selective reading or what…troll along though
> >
> > No I’m just reading everyone else’s post and it seems to blow by any speculation or theory you announced.
>
> most of the time people decide to banter one another rather than being constructive in their pursuits…similar to what you’re doing. I wasn’t aware that my posts needed any more attention than others but I am glad you felt persuaded enough to comment on it with zero input, let alone anything constructive or disproving it.

Welcoming Waypoint experience, I expected greater than that from someone with the pursuit to discuss this critically. Of all platforms to hold any kind of serious discussion you opted for Waypoint over Reddit. I’m curious why?

Aside from the valueless input you see my comment as, amongst the others here.

569

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> > > > > > > > So the main thread was locked then redirected to another locked thread (this thread) because previous thread was redirected to the original locked thread. now redirected thread has been unlocked so im reposting to keep the discussion going on this new locked/unlocked thread.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just a theory but if you “read between the lines” I think it may have some merit to it:With the armor coating scandal out of the bag, I saw a few posts on whether this could implicate the removal of the traditional Red v Blue teams. Now from my understanding of Destiny 2, multiplayer for that game is kept with whatever custom armor you choose across the board. Now with these armor coatings being closely similar to the Destiny shader system, I think it would only be fair to say this might possibly be the end of Red v Blue teams as well and here is why.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -343i latest update to the community said that these armor coatings are in fact replacing the traditional color your Spartan method
> > > > > > > > -It has been proposed/brought up that you should be able to color your spartans based on the specific armor coating however since the marketing and layout of these are pretty much guaranteed; i came to the conclusion that if you “cant” choose your colors then the color system would be out of the window. IF the color system is out of the window and you cannot change the color of Armor Coatings then there wouldnt be an option in the game to do so THEREFORE if the option isnt there then 343i wouldnt have the ability to take armor coatings and make them into the traditional Red v Blue for team matchups (IE throwing red or blue over top of the coating to represent the team in team games). This would then fall in line with the theory of copying what Destiny has done with its multiplayer system. Hate to say it folks but the logic is there and pretty easy to follow…we might be saying RIP to the Red v Blue teams as well as personalizing Spartan color choices.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Crazy analysis. I did not expect this kind of drama coming on to the site tonight.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > not sure how much “drama” can be derived from a post clearly announced as speculation and theory??? especially with how many of these other posts ‘explode’
> > > > >
> > > > > The selective reading is what does it for me.
> > > >
> > > > Not sure if you’re implying ‘you’ have selective reading or what…troll along though
> > >
> > > No I’m just reading everyone else’s post and it seems to blow by any speculation or theory you announced.
> >
> > most of the time people decide to banter one another rather than being constructive in their pursuits…similar to what you’re doing. I wasn’t aware that my posts needed any more attention than others but I am glad you felt persuaded enough to comment on it with zero input, let alone anything constructive or disproving it.
>
> Welcoming Waypoint experience, I expected greater than that from someone with the pursuit to discuss this critically. Of all platforms to hold any kind of serious discussion you opted for Waypoint over Reddit. I’m curious why?
>
> Aside from the valueless input you see my comment as, amongst the others here.

I’m not on Reddit? or twitter or facebook or ig. I would imagine the spot to discuss halo would be Halo Waypoint as it was created by 343/Microsoft and is actively patrolled by members of those organizations. Not sure what your point is here or with any other of your posts though…I would ask if you’d like to continue whatever pointless conversation you’re trying to have with me to take it to PM so that this particular thread can stay on topic and not be flooded further with more banter…that’s literally all you’ve done in this thread and you found something to write about about 1 page in and haven’t commented on anything else aside from that in this thread or offered any insight (out of 29 pages of comments)?

Doesn’t make much sense to come off as someone who is trying to discuss anything in any regard when your posts have clearly declared the latter. Then want to say how welcoming of a waypoint experience you’re having for being called out for trolling with no real feedback or discussion on anything related. Where I’m from that is called a -Yoink- starter or per the Forum rules…a troll.

570

I have no idea what information some people think we need to have a “fair” opinion on the coating system.

Players no longer have the ability to freely customize their armor colors and colors are tied to specific coatings. Short of having thousands of coatings, which seems unlikely, players simply are not getting the same number of combinations they could under the traditional system. There may well be a greater variety of materials and colors packed into any 1 coating, but the possibility is high that you just going to be out of luck if 343 doesn’t include a coating that otherwise matches your preferences. Also the assertion that colors are somehow inextricably linked to individual coatings is laughable PR spin. Its actually kind of insulting. 343 could have implemented a system which takes advantage of the extra layers in coatings to give players more freedom than ever before, but they chose not to.

As for the monetization aspect, it doesn’t matter if you can technically earn all content for free. The entire point of a F2P system is the understanding that players get something with no upfront cost in exchange for devs being able to push more aggressive and outwardly manipulative monetization. F2P Infinite multiplayer will be designed to be frustrating in one way or another in order to encourage players to spend more money, which is why I don’t like the decision to go F2P in the first place(among other things).

The idea that coatings are not going to play a role in Infinite’s monetization is frankly naïve, especially when we already have branded coatings out in the wild… The fact is that player’s no longer have the ability to freely customize their color scheme and that change benefits the corporate bottom line not the playerbase.

The way some folks are trying to frame the obvious backlash as some sort of knee-jerk reaction is absurd when 343(or MS it doesn’t really matter) are the ones swinging the reflex hammer right into our tendons. It is a case of a very clear cause creating a very predictable and understandable effect.

571

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> Keep it civil

Barbarism is the natural state of man

572

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> > 2533274803493024;3:
> > Keep it civil
>
> Barbarism is the natural state of man

So easy to get under peoples skin nowadays I wouldn’t call it natural. Though I do like the sentiment.

> 2533274819446242;570:
> I have no idea what information some people think we need to have a “fair” opinion on the coating system.
>
> Players no longer have the ability to freely customize their armor colors and colors are tied to specific coatings. Short of having thousands of coatings, which seems unlikely, players simply are not getting the same number of combinations they could under the traditional system. There may well be a greater variety of materials and colors packed into any 1 coating, but the possibility is high that you just going to be out of luck if 343 doesn’t include a coating that otherwise matches your preferences. Also the assertion that colors are somehow inextricably linked to individual coatings is laughable PR spin. Its actually kind of insulting. 343 could have implemented a system which takes advantage of the extra layers in coatings to give players more freedom than ever before, but they chose not to.
>
> As for the monetization aspect, it doesn’t matter if you can technically earn all content for free. The entire point of a F2P system is the understanding that players get something with no upfront cost in exchange for devs being able to push more aggressive and outwardly manipulative monetization. F2P Infinite multiplayer will be designed to be frustrating in one way or another in order to encourage players to spend more money, which is why I don’t like the decision to go F2P in the first place(among other things).
>
> The idea that coatings are not going to play a role in Infinite’s monetization is frankly naïve, especially when we already have branded coatings out in the wild… The fact is that player’s no longer have the ability to freely customize their color scheme and that change benefits the corporate bottom line not the playerbase.
>
> The way some folks are trying to frame the obvious backlash as some sort of knee-jerk reaction is absurd when 343(or MS it doesn’t really matter) are the ones swinging the reflex hammer right into our tendons. It is a case of a very clear cause creating a very predictable and understandable effect.

I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.

573

> 2533274832674094;572:
> > 2533274819446242;570:
> > I have no idea what information some people think we need to have a “fair” opinion on the coating system.
> >
> > Players no longer have the ability to freely customize their armor colors and colors are tied to specific coatings. Short of having thousands of coatings, which seems unlikely, players simply are not getting the same number of combinations they could under the traditional system. There may well be a greater variety of materials and colors packed into any 1 coating, but the possibility is high that you just going to be out of luck if 343 doesn’t include a coating that otherwise matches your preferences. Also the assertion that colors are somehow inextricably linked to individual coatings is laughable PR spin. Its actually kind of insulting. 343 could have implemented a system which takes advantage of the extra layers in coatings to give players more freedom than ever before, but they chose not to.
> >
> > As for the monetization aspect, it doesn’t matter if you can technically earn all content for free. The entire point of a F2P system is the understanding that players get something with no upfront cost in exchange for devs being able to push more aggressive and outwardly manipulative monetization. F2P Infinite multiplayer will be designed to be frustrating in one way or another in order to encourage players to spend more money, which is why I don’t like the decision to go F2P in the first place(among other things).
> >
> > The idea that coatings are not going to play a role in Infinite’s monetization is frankly naïve, especially when we already have branded coatings out in the wild… The fact is that player’s no longer have the ability to freely customize their color scheme and that change benefits the corporate bottom line not the playerbase.
> >
> > The way some folks are trying to frame the obvious backlash as some sort of knee-jerk reaction is absurd when 343(or MS it doesn’t really matter) are the ones swinging the reflex hammer right into our tendons. It is a case of a very clear cause creating a very predictable and understandable effect.
>
> I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.

You say you like that take but to be honest it looks like you largely missed the point. To reiterate, I’m saying that I think its naïve of folks to believe that the removal of color selection isn’t a transparent attempt to squeeze more money out of players. This is a bad thing.

And my main point is that isn’t any secret unreleased info that is going to making the armor coating system not a scummy cash grab outside of an announcement of “Yeah you guys were right that was a bad idea we are going to allow you to select your colors again by launch.”

The lack of information isn’t the issue with armor coatings, we already know enough about it to make a fair judgement. It unambiguously sucks for very obvious reasons and the damage control regarding it has been insulting.

574

> 2533274832674094;572:
> I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.

This is 100% what we know:

  • There is no customization of colors. - Colors are part of a preset texture (aka shaders aka coatings) that would be applied to your spartan. - Coatings will also have a pattern (1 of the 7 layers that are “baked-in”) that will not be customizable. - Emblems are split up with ones for your Armor and a separate one for your Player (also require different unlocks).Purely based on that information, the system is terrible.

Roughness/wear/tear will also apparently be one of the 7 layers, so now add that to the others and the odds are high to obtain coatings that you simply don’t like.
To have a system that allows for all possible combinations of that “7-layered baked-in texture” would be an astronomical amount of different coatings needed.

Even if they are easy to acquire, this will bloat the interface horrendously.

575

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not purposely bypass the word filter.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274818083354;574:
> > 2533274832674094;572:
> > I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.
>
> This is 100% what we know:
> - There is no customization of colors. - Colors are part of a preset texture (aka shaders aka coatings) that would be applied to your spartan. - Coatings will also have a pattern (1 of the 7 layers that are “baked-in”) that will not be customizable. - Emblems are split up with ones for your Armor and a separate one for your Player (also require different unlocks).Purely based on that information, the system is terrible.
>
> Roughness/wear/tear will also apparently be one of the 7 layers, so now add that to the others and the odds are high to obtain coatings that you simply don’t like.
> To have a system that allows for all possible combinations of that “7-layered baked-in texture” would be an astronomical amount of different coatings needed.
>
> Even if they are easy to acquire, this will bloat the interface horrendously.

Amazing, they found a way to make an interface more bloated than Halo 5’s…! Fing what the f.

576

I didn’t even consider the depths of the menus. What a mess.

577

> 2533274818083354;574:
> > 2533274832674094;572:
> > I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.
>
> This is 100% what we know:
> - There is no customization of colors. - Colors are part of a preset texture (aka shaders aka coatings) that would be applied to your spartan. - Coatings will also have a pattern (1 of the 7 layers that are “baked-in”) that will not be customizable. - Emblems are split up with ones for your Armor and a separate one for your Player (also require different unlocks).Purely based on that information, the system is terrible.
>
> Roughness/wear/tear will also apparently be one of the 7 layers, so now add that to the others and the odds are high to obtain coatings that you simply don’t like.
> To have a system that allows for all possible combinations of that “7-layered baked-in texture” would be an astronomical amount of different coatings needed.
>
> Even if they are easy to acquire, this will bloat the interface horrendously.

Exactly this^

But also, bare in mind that no matter what they say about the way the 7 layer coatings are “baked in” from our perspective, there’s no way in hell they’d be baked in on a system level because that would be nonsensical from a development point of view. Say for every coating you make (about 100?) you have to make a separate baked texture for every amour piece (say, 100?), then make 7 due to the different layers. That’s already 70,000 textures your artists would have to make.

Realistically, they can be mixed and matched to save dev time & storage space on their end. The colours may not even be baked in, instead just doing the usual white armour with a colour layer on top. It’s highly unlikely that they couldn’t have just allowed us to change the colours of our armour within the guidelines of each coating (ie keep the texture / patterns but customise the colour layers). On a technical level this was an option they simply chose not to give us (I have this same criticism of Destiny & Doom Eternal also). And the sole reason they chose to do this was 1) so they could sell them in promotions, probably microtransactions, & 2) so they can restrict player choice artificially by removing a feature we had free access to in previous games and forcing us to play / pay to unlock those features over a long period of time.

That last point is a dev mentality I overwhelmingly condemn anywhere I see it. Incidentally with the whole F2P multiplayer & uncertainty surrounding this game, my instinct is that this may be the first Halo game I do not buy outright with my own money. Since I’m already a gamepass subscriber via the £1 upgrade trick a while ago, If they’re going to develop this game like a F2P title then I am going to treat it as such, and not spend another penny on the game beyond what I did to get access to Microsoft’s (highly recommended might I add) game pass service, and I encourage others to follow suit.

578

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> > > 2533274819446242;570:
> > > I have no idea what information some people think we need to have a “fair” opinion on the coating system.
> > >
> > > Players no longer have the ability to freely customize their armor colors and colors are tied to specific coatings. Short of having thousands of coatings, which seems unlikely, players simply are not getting the same number of combinations they could under the traditional system. There may well be a greater variety of materials and colors packed into any 1 coating, but the possibility is high that you just going to be out of luck if 343 doesn’t include a coating that otherwise matches your preferences. Also the assertion that colors are somehow inextricably linked to individual coatings is laughable PR spin. Its actually kind of insulting. 343 could have implemented a system which takes advantage of the extra layers in coatings to give players more freedom than ever before, but they chose not to.
> > >
> > > As for the monetization aspect, it doesn’t matter if you can technically earn all content for free. The entire point of a F2P system is the understanding that players get something with no upfront cost in exchange for devs being able to push more aggressive and outwardly manipulative monetization. F2P Infinite multiplayer will be designed to be frustrating in one way or another in order to encourage players to spend more money, which is why I don’t like the decision to go F2P in the first place(among other things).
> > >
> > > The idea that coatings are not going to play a role in Infinite’s monetization is frankly naïve, especially when we already have branded coatings out in the wild… The fact is that player’s no longer have the ability to freely customize their color scheme and that change benefits the corporate bottom line not the playerbase.
> > >
> > > The way some folks are trying to frame the obvious backlash as some sort of knee-jerk reaction is absurd when 343(or MS it doesn’t really matter) are the ones swinging the reflex hammer right into our tendons. It is a case of a very clear cause creating a very predictable and understandable effect.
> >
> > I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.
>
> You say you like that take but to be honest it looks like you largely missed the point. To reiterate, I’m saying that I think its naïve of folks to believe that the removal of color selection isn’t a transparent attempt to squeeze more money out of players. This is a bad thing.
>
> And my main point is that isn’t any secret unreleased info that is going to making the armor coating system not a scummy cash grab outside of an announcement of “Yeah you guys were right that was a bad idea we are going to allow you to select your colors again by launch.”
>
> The lack of information isn’t the issue with armor coatings, we already know enough about it to make a fair judgement. It unambiguously sucks for very obvious reasons and the damage control regarding it has been insulting.

My bad I was looking at it through the frame there wasn’t enough information on it but I get your point now.

> 2533274890412134;577:
> > 2533274818083354;574:
> > > 2533274832674094;572:
> > > I like your take a lot I do think that the monetization is naive but they are definitely learning and MCC is a good base for testing new theories. I honestly think there is too little information on it to read into and like you said with the communities reaction. Starving for information makes it so.
> >
> > This is 100% what we know:
> > - There is no customization of colors. - Colors are part of a preset texture (aka shaders aka coatings) that would be applied to your spartan. - Coatings will also have a pattern (1 of the 7 layers that are “baked-in”) that will not be customizable. - Emblems are split up with ones for your Armor and a separate one for your Player (also require different unlocks).Purely based on that information, the system is terrible.
> >
> > Roughness/wear/tear will also apparently be one of the 7 layers, so now add that to the others and the odds are high to obtain coatings that you simply don’t like.
> > To have a system that allows for all possible combinations of that “7-layered baked-in texture” would be an astronomical amount of different coatings needed.
> >
> > Even if they are easy to acquire, this will bloat the interface horrendously.
>
> Exactly this^
>
> But also, bare in mind that no matter what they say about the way the 7 layer coatings are “baked in” from our perspective, there’s no way in hell they’d be baked in on a system level because that would be nonsensical from a development point of view. Say for every coating you make (about 100?) you have to make a separate baked texture for every amour piece (say, 100?), then make 7 due to the different layers. That’s already 70,000 textures your artists would have to make.
>
> Realistically, they can be mixed and matched to save dev time & storage space on their end. The colours may not even be baked in, instead just doing the usual white armour with a colour layer on top. It’s highly unlikely that they couldn’t have just allowed us to change the colours of our armour within the guidelines of each coating (ie keep the texture / patterns but customise the colour layers). On a technical level this was an option they simply chose not to give us (I have this same criticism of Destiny & Doom Eternal also). And the sole reason they chose to do this was 1) so they could sell them in promotions, probably microtransactions, & 2) so they can restrict player choice artificially by removing a feature we had free access to in previous games and forcing us to play / pay to unlock those features over a long period of time.
>
> That last point is a dev mentality I overwhelmingly condemn anywhere I see it. Incidentally with the whole F2P multiplayer & uncertainty surrounding this game, my instinct is that this may be the first Halo game I do not buy outright with my own money. Since I’m already a gamepass subscriber via the £1 upgrade trick a while ago, If they’re going to develop this game like a F2P title then I am going to treat it as such, and not spend another penny on the game beyond what I did to get access to Microsoft’s (highly recommended might I add) game pass service, and I encourage others to follow suit.

Makes so much sense, sad to see that even with strong opinion and community interest otherwise I can’t think of a reason 343 would walkaway and “listen” to the community to not push this. I haven’t paid too much attention to the news coming out and the details to know but 70,000 textures to a team that reportedly outsourced most of the work for armor designs concerns me.

579

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> > > > > 2533274842327341;434:
> > > > > > 2533274836316658;430:
> > > > > > > 2533274842327341;428:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819903178;424:
> > > > > > > > > 2535438636443468;422:
> > > > > > > > > Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’d rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who says you can’t?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn’t behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Come on people, use your heads, we’ve all seen how this F2P crap works.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, I’m just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
> > > >
> > > > “The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding.”
> > > >
> > > > --Arbiter
> > >
> > > Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don’t fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
> >
> > Why is blind support and hype “more productive” then being critical? Enjoying a product doesn’t mean you accept anything that is given to you simply because it has the name of that product on it.
>
> Where’s the blind support? It points to reason to wait to hear the full information before losing your mind over partial information and jumping to conclusions :slight_smile:

Because you wouldn’t “be excited” for something if you simply wanted to hear more information about it.

580

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> > > > > > > > > 2533274819903178;424:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535438636443468;422:
> > > > > > > > > > Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’d rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who says you can’t?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn’t behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Come on people, use your heads, we’ve all seen how this F2P crap works.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, I’m just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
> > > > >
> > > > > “The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding.”
> > > > >
> > > > > --Arbiter
> > > >
> > > > Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don’t fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
> > >
> > > Why is blind support and hype “more productive” then being critical? Enjoying a product doesn’t mean you accept anything that is given to you simply because it has the name of that product on it.
> >
> > Where’s the blind support? It points to reason to wait to hear the full information before losing your mind over partial information and jumping to conclusions :slight_smile:
>
> Because you wouldn’t “be excited” for something if you simply wanted to hear more information about it.

Excited “about the potential” is the key word there :slight_smile:

581

I could care less about armor customization right now.

All I want is a proper Halo game that people will play for a long time.

582

> 2535423661615819;581:
> I could care less about armor customization right now.
>
> All I want is a proper Halo game that people will play for a long time.

Armor customization definitely helps retain the population for awhile.

583

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> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274819903178;424:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535438636443468;422:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I’d rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Who says you can’t?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn’t behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Come on people, use your heads, we’ve all seen how this F2P crap works.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Personally, I’m just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --Arbiter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don’t fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is blind support and hype “more productive” then being critical? Enjoying a product doesn’t mean you accept anything that is given to you simply because it has the name of that product on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where’s the blind support? It points to reason to wait to hear the full information before losing your mind over partial information and jumping to conclusions :slight_smile:
> > > >
> > > > But it’s not us jumping to conclusions that they took out classic customization in favor for shaders, many of which are confirmed to be paywalled, even if temporarily. There’s no speculation in those facts, and that is what we’re mad about.
> > >
> > > Fair enough, but while they did confirm coatings would replace primary/secondary color options, we don’t know the full extent of what WILL be available. It could be better than what we had, it could be worse. We truly don’t know and I personally want to see what it is before panicking.
> >
> > Still pushing that, even though literally no one who isn’t a 343 stan is buying it?
> >
> > They’ve had a week now. If we’re wrong, they could say so. They haven’t said anything even as everything caught on fire, which only makes sense if we’re right, and they’re scrambling to come up with a way to address the community.
> >
> > Armor colors are going to be aggressively monetized. Period.
>
> This is where you’re misguided. If “we’re” wrong as if there is one, cohesive argument from people complaining. There isn’t. That is why often times companies don’t even address concerns from their fanbase, as they’re often scattered and baseless (as a lot of speculation in this thread is). Uny responded, and addressed some concerns along with saying more is coming soon. We’ll see what they say, but I suspect they don’t exactly want to jeopardize their marketing layout for panicking fans with no cohesive complaint apart from “I don’t like change”.
>
> As for “Armor colors are going to be aggressively monetized. Period”… this is basically only making the point I made above.

Saying that anyone that is complaining has no cohesive argument other than “I don’t like change” is null because both sides, not just the pro-coatings side, are making vehement claims by calling the others names or trying to pretend like there is only one correct side. There are cohesive arguments on both sides, so in turn, focusing on the issue at hand without making it seem like there’s only one rational side is probably a more prudent route to take.

“I don’t like change” doesn’t apply because this isn’t just change in the traditional sense, it’s removing a feature and replacing the feature with a vague system that looks to be (not confirmed, absolutely) with the intent to sell MTX, which is a controversial topic in of itself. You are correct in that we have to wait and see the system first but, people who argue the ethics of removing a tried and true system that had no reason to be omitted, and replacing it with a preset system which has to, at the bare minimum, have at least 1000 colour combinations in order to meet the original system’s purpose, should at least be given a chance. They aren’t disliking change, because change isn’t a concept that only applies to good things. Bad change exists and is subjective and so it’s more prudent to say they aren’t thrilled with what’s being removed and replaced with something suspicious (a system that looks like it is going to be monetized).
That is to say, it’s prudent to listen to those who argue points without saying anything along the lines of “All those defending this are just mindless fanboys who will buy anything”, or “those who are complaining are just babies who hate change” (not your words, but I have seen both of these things so far, multiple times). These aren’t arguments, they are just pointless acts of aggression. Beyond those insults are two very different sides sporting two very different ideologies that can agree, but don’t because they are adamant that the other side is irrational.
It’s just being understanding and trying to understand the other’s points before asserting that their entire argument and everyone that sports it are similarly irrational.

I personally don’t blame either side. I think those who love 343 are excited for this new system and are entitled to be excited because they enjoy the change it’s taking and don’t mind MTX as a whole, whereas those who aren’t thrilled with 343’s record are also entitled to be frustrated that, after so much has happened, they are still hinting at MTX, hinting at a further ignorance of those who wish Halo could try harder to remember it’s past glory. Neither side is wrong or right, or rational or irrational. The only irrationality that exists is in those who play dirty when trying to argue their point, who resort to talking about how stupid the other side looks.
The argument could stand to benefit from losing that mindset and just being civil, which means both sides need to learn.

584

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535438636443468;422:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ya know what? If this is what we get instead of REQ packs . . . I will just have to live with it. Because at least its only the textures that are being affected. You never know, maybe 343 will explain the system and people will suddenly love it. Because lets get real, would you rather have every armor locked behind a pay-wall? Or would you prefer to have colors behind a pay-wall? I personally would prefer for colors to be locked behind a pay-wall.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d rather unlock armor/colors by simply playing like I used for a game I ALREADY PAID FOR. Anything else is exorbitant greed.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Who says you can’t?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sure hope that the color scheme you like isn’t behind a massive grind wall designed to frustrate you into just buying it for $5.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Come on people, use your heads, we’ve all seen how this F2P crap works.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Personally, I’m just more excited about the potential of armor coatings than mourning the loss of having primary colors. The potential of unique patterns, designs, effects, equipment, and more on your armor excites me too much to care about simple color schemes.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “The Prophets are liars, but you are fools to do their bidding.”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --Arbiter
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Meh, to me it seems more productive to be excited about the potential of a new direction than complain pointlessly online about a topic we don’t fully understand yet. Because remember, all this whining is from a paragraph and some screenshots.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is blind support and hype “more productive” then being critical? Enjoying a product doesn’t mean you accept anything that is given to you simply because it has the name of that product on it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where’s the blind support? It points to reason to wait to hear the full information before losing your mind over partial information and jumping to conclusions :slight_smile:
> > > > >
> > > > > But it’s not us jumping to conclusions that they took out classic customization in favor for shaders, many of which are confirmed to be paywalled, even if temporarily. There’s no speculation in those facts, and that is what we’re mad about.
> > > >
> > > > Fair enough, but while they did confirm coatings would replace primary/secondary color options, we don’t know the full extent of what WILL be available. It could be better than what we had, it could be worse. We truly don’t know and I personally want to see what it is before panicking.
> > >
> > > Still pushing that, even though literally no one who isn’t a 343 stan is buying it?
> > >
> > > They’ve had a week now. If we’re wrong, they could say so. They haven’t said anything even as everything caught on fire, which only makes sense if we’re right, and they’re scrambling to come up with a way to address the community.
> > >
> > > Armor colors are going to be aggressively monetized. Period.
> >
> > This is where you’re misguided. If “we’re” wrong as if there is one, cohesive argument from people complaining. There isn’t. That is why often times companies don’t even address concerns from their fanbase, as they’re often scattered and baseless (as a lot of speculation in this thread is). Uny responded, and addressed some concerns along with saying more is coming soon. We’ll see what they say, but I suspect they don’t exactly want to jeopardize their marketing layout for panicking fans with no cohesive complaint apart from “I don’t like change”.
> >
> > As for “Armor colors are going to be aggressively monetized. Period”… this is basically only making the point I made above.
>
> Saying that anyone that is complaining has no cohesive argument other than “I don’t like change” is null because both sides, not just the pro-coatings side, are making vehement claims by calling the others names or trying to pretend like there is only one correct side. There are cohesive arguments on both sides, so in turn, focusing on the issue at hand without making it seem like there’s only one rational side is probably a more prudent route to take.
>
> “I don’t like change” doesn’t apply because this isn’t just change in the traditional sense, it’s removing a feature and replacing the feature with a vague system that looks to be (not confirmed, absolutely) with the intent to sell MTX, which is a controversial topic in of itself. You are correct in that we have to wait and see the system first but, people who argue the ethics of removing a tried and true system that had no reason to be omitted, and replacing it with a preset system which has to, at the bare minimum, have at least 1000 colour combinations in order to meet the original system’s purpose, should at least be given a chance. They aren’t disliking change, because change isn’t a concept that only applies to good things. Bad change exists and is subjective and so it’s more prudent to say they aren’t thrilled with what’s being removed and replaced with something suspicious (a system that looks like it is going to be monetized).
> That is to say, it’s prudent to listen to those who argue points without saying anything along the lines of “All those defending this are just mindless fanboys who will buy anything”, or “those who are complaining are just babies who hate change” (not your words, but I have seen both of these things so far, multiple times). These aren’t arguments, they are just pointless acts of aggression. Beyond those insults are two very different sides sporting two very different ideologies that can agree, but don’t because they are adamant that the other side is irrational.
> It’s just being understanding and trying to understand the other’s points before asserting that their entire argument and everyone that sports it are similarly irrational.
>
> I personally don’t blame either side. I think those who love 343 are excited for this new system and are entitled to be excited because they enjoy the change it’s taking and don’t mind MTX as a whole, whereas those who aren’t thrilled with 343’s record are also entitled to be frustrated that, after so much has happened, they are still hinting at MTX, hinting at a further ignorance of those who wish Halo could try harder to remember it’s past glory. Neither side is wrong or right, or rational or irrational. The only irrationality that exists is in those who play dirty when trying to argue their point, who resort to talking about how stupid the other side looks.
> The argument could stand to benefit from losing that mindset and just being civil, which means both sides need to learn.

very well put! a disagreement on view points doesnt have to devolve as rapidly as it seems to do on this Forum. Valid points can be made for either side of the coin.