We’ve been tricked!

These are my honest thoughts, modern gaming is bad, freemium model as a whole is just a bad model. It can be good if you put the work into it, but 343 didn’t. They poorly planned the game with contractors and technical debt

1 Like

There’s plenty of engines out there and yeh there are the common ones but 343i are supposed to be a AAA studio and yet there acting like a Indy dev studio that has barely any budget and not seeming to care about being accountable for lying about the progression system.

People are always making fan games out there and 343i seem to be ok with that but compared to the official content that 343i is doing… it’s worse what 343i are doing.

I’m surprised at a studio like 343i that can fail and has failed so badly in so many ways and how unprofessional they have been acting about it. I feel like 343i are poorly managing the IP.

I remember ‘old Bungie’ always being about player 1st and 343i lied to us with Infinite and I feel betrayed because 343i does not put the player 1st and continues to make false promises. 343i should be accountable.

2 Likes

No I remember them saying “ once you buy the battle pass you never have to buy it again?

1 Like

The point is developing a game engine is not a trivial undertaking and is something different than developing a game. Indie Studios tend not to because of the sheer volume of work this adds. This allows them to focus on content because they’re using tried and tested tools provided by teams or companies whose purpose is to develop the engine.

But I hear you: 343 is a AAA studio backed by Microsoft and they have the resources to write their own engine. Look at some of my other posts - I agree management is at fault and people in outward facing roles could do a better job at communicating and setting expectations that align with the development target. I agree 343 has been lethargic in development, used a lot of words to say nothing, left most players unhappy with the state, and done little to instill trust things will change. Having watched a GDC video where the dev broke down networking for Reach I would say Bungie definitely was in touch with their players. It was a stark contrast to how I perceive the current relationship between 343 and Players.

The link for networking in reach: https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014345/I-Shot-You-First-Networking

2 Likes

Nobody is saying game design is easy. What I have problem is when developers lie about a game to build hype then do the worst thing they can imagine instead. 343i didn’t need a new engine anytime soon and they choose they do this and that was always going to be a ‘risk’ which they would have known. Heck if they wanted to they could have spent time on a new engine and make it for UE4/5 if their engine is such a mess.

The thing is I understand not all dev’s are perfect and they should have delayed their game even further and they know it wasn’t ready and they mislead fans and continued to act like everything is normal after losing 270k out of 272k…which just comes off as like there not caring that they butchered the release.

2 Likes

Modern gaming is honestly a joke lol.

1 Like

I never implied it was. I said because Indie developers don’t have to allocate resources on a custom game engine therefore they can focus on the meat of the game.

This. I think commercial game engines are at a point where writing a new one for a networked FPS game doesn’t seem worthwhile. I don’t think Forge requires its own engine either - UE4/5 should be able to replicate it.

The average dev doesn’t have a say as to whether the release date should be pushed back. i.e. Even if they wanted to delay the game they couldn’t because that’s above their paygrade. I can’t speak as to whether the devs where content with the released product and I don’t know enough about who exactly is on the dev team to know if any of the public figures is actually a developer of the game or the game engine. Either way, they need to get a PR person who can manage Player expectations and get them out of the No Man’s Sky trap they’re quickly sinking in.

I will say the game felt solid it’s just the lack of core features - network/render lag, anti-cheat, robust ranked system - killed the hype and 343’s lack of engagement is smothering the remaining flame. Hopefully it doesn’t smother it beyond the point they’re able to rekindle interest.

The problem is that the Marketing Departments in many game companies ended up either having their best employee become the new company head or the former company head was replaced by the Marketing Department.

Why do you think Apple has become entirely about overpricing their product to be 4x as valuable while being the exact same every year now?

At least that is one of the main reasons why the market decided to care more about lootboxes and such instead of actual gameplay features.

Umm maybe they don’t have a choice on what get’s delayed or not but 343i at the very least should have told the truth. It’s like they can make all sorts of amazing claims but at the moment 343i have destroyed that trust and they need to re-earn that trust.

1 Like

The only thing we’re disagreeing on is grouping - 343i, devs, and leadership are different groups. Leadership should have delayed the game. Whoever’s responsible for PR should have tried to temper player expectations before release… Not sure what they’d say but thats also why I don’t work PR.

Yeah, they just need someone who knows how to set expectations that align with the development pace. It’s identical to the problem No Man’s Sky went through except No Man’s Sky was worse with respect to over promising and underdelivering. To be fair, they pulled it back after months of radio silence like the Legends they are but this isn’t No Man’s Sky and to your earlier point 343 is a AAA game studio so they shouldn’t be in a similar position in the first place.

Poor management was part of it. I also believe Covid had done a lot damage itself. It was stated that they had to rework in the middle of covid and with everyone adapting to covid regs there was bound to be problems. Games like Halo need clear lines of communication and over the phone and internet just cannot replace face to face. Poor planning, poor communication has lead to majority of the games problems and delays.

Technically, it still cost $60 to get a story mode, and one with minimal features. So, the F2P marketing was just to give the illusion that they are offering up a free experience. Honestly, it should have been the other way around; the Campaign should be free and the Multiplayer should be $60. The features expected from both aligns with this as well.

I understand the whole Covid but Covid has nothing to do with them lying about the progression system and they had 4 years before Covid to get things right and they would have had more time if they had delayed the game. Nobody is saying Covid wasn’t an issue and what is the issue is that 343i’s priorities were more about quick buck instead of remotely caring about the fanbase. Poor management of Halo has been going a lot longer than the epidemic and the pandemic doesn’t excuse how snarky they’ve been to the fanbase.

3 Likes

Yeah, they mean that once you buy the season 1 battle pass, as far as I know.

They said a lot of things! Like something about how most of the stuff is earnable just by playing the game.

…and about how Halo games would have co-op from now on.

Game and merchandise sales are higher too.

It might actually be a misstake not to develope the game in Unreal Engine 5, I think it would have been a alot easier to create new maps.,

4 Likes

Totally agree, i am sorry if my earlier statement made it sound like i was blaming all of the problems on Covid, majority of the problem does come from poor planning and poor management. Covid only added to those problems but wasn’t a major contributer it just didn’t help. I also agree the game should have been delayed and more public test done. Heck a couple of polls would have been nice. If they had delayed the game and done more public testing and allowed everyone to do surveys. And done polls during and after. Along with letting us test all the weapons and modes i sure the game would be better than it is right now.

the thing I mostly take from this is that 343 has entirely disrespected expectation from the fans and given them something that would be hopefully good enough. Clearly it isn’t though and this whole situation is a joke. It seems that is the model though these days to release a game in a mostly shoddy state and build from there pulling back the fans that had initially p!$$ed off. The thing is 343 is even too incompetent to manage this model. Quite how they have any support at all at this point is absolutely bizarre

This whole thing has been a big f*ck you to the fans and I now know what Phill Spencer was talking about when he said he didn’t expect Halo Infinite to change the landscape in any way. Yeah we’re some way off that I’d say. You really do have to wonder if they simply want the game dead

1 Like

Yeh well I love doing Q/A stuff since something I often do and even I have to say what 343i did was not ok. The game was reported to be a mess before launch and was advised to not release so close to release and 343i refused to delay it any further and the management lack of care lead to the biggest downfall in Halo industry.

Yeh I agree and they basically made a beta just before launch and that was basically not a beta because no sensible person would release a beta that close to a release date unless their terrible at their job.

They shouldn’t have even needed tons of surveys to know that any competent dev’s would not release a full on beta like Halo Infinite so close to a release with zero room for proper fix’s. I’d understand if the beta worked flawlessly but it didn’t and they still choose to have no fallback in case the beta was a complete disaster. Basically it’s like we’re paying for a early access game and 343i have basically acted like they have given up or just don’t care. The fact that live service is their main goal has basically nuked the franchise and 343i are to blame.

Right?! And i have played early access games. The best one was subnautica. 343i has been to eager to get the game out.

So true. Surveys only help if they did beta or there tech previews for a long while before launch. The tech previews should have been betas in terms of how close to launch they were. If they had delayed like they should have after those tech previews and continued to have tech previews until they got everything fix. Then a month before launch do a beta. And at the end of each tech preview have everyone do a survey, not just some random amount, like they did. I was able to take part of each tech preview and out of all them, they only had me do one survey. Sure it was good of them to make post so we could put our opinions but they would lock them after the tech preview was done. Which I am sure some people didn’t post in time, since they were many post done outside 343i’s offical post.

No it didn’t feel like a beta. It was more like you stated earlier a early access. 343i drop the ball big time with that.

1 Like