We need to get it right, Automatic weapons need fix.

Games Other Halo
1

This may be 343i’s last chance to actually make automatic weapons useful apart from the needler, and make them actually worth picking up.

the whole purpose of the plasma rifle is to drop sheilds quicker than an AR. at the moment there isn’t much in it, and the AR kills quicker anyway. this needs fixing NOW.

The plasma rifle should be substantionally quicker at dropping sheilds than any balistic weaponry (ar, pistol, spiker, carbine, needle rifle) than any of these, but most notably the Ar as it is the counterpart.
Human weapons should shoot quicker than brute weapons (spiker) but not as much damage than brute weapons, but still kill quicker than plasma weapons when sheilds are dropped.

Basically for automatic weapons:
Sheild destroy: Plasma>Brute weapons>Human weapons
Health destroy: Brute weapons=Human weapons>plasma
Rate of fire: Plasma>Human>brute weapons

as you can see from above, all weapons have a purpose, and actually makes the weapons do what they were designed to do:
Plasma-kills sheild excellent, not as good on flesh
Human-jack of all trades, kills sheild ok, damage decent on flesh
Brute-meant for power only, low rate of fire, high damage, kills sheild good, kills flesh ok.

this is what they were designed to do, but it seems they are rarely used.

in my opinion they should fix these problems to actually make them pickupable but to do this they must counter the other main sandbox in halo: ranged weapons.

Range:
close quaters:
Automatic weapon should win.
mid range:
they should be equal, depends on skill of user.
long range:
Rifles should win, but auto’s skill have a chance if skilled enough.
Extream range:
Rifles always win, although they can still be hit and kills by automatic weaponry.

I do know that the weapons in halo are fairly close to this, but i don’t think they are close enough. i hate being out gunned at close range when i have an ar and my opponant has either a DMR or AR, even when i hit all my shots.

i also belive that every weapon should have it’s use, and this is helped even more with the addition of duel weilding.
Plasma rifle+smg=unstoppable force at close/medium range.

if the weapons actually work right, with enough ammo to kill more than one enemy with a clip, then i belive that the sandbox will once again be balanced!

Option 2:
Automatic weapons become headshot capable.

i mean common? just because it isn’t a big enough bullet means it can’t headshot on an unsheilded enemy?

Automatic weapons drop sheilds quicker than rifles.
Rifles should kill quicker against health as they are headshot capable.
Automatic weapons drop sheilds, so they should also have a chance to headshot if you’re aiming right. it’s only fair. i hate getting an enemy on 1 piece of health with my ar, only to have my sheild popped by a dmr and then headshotted before the final blow.

that isn’t fair.

if they can headshot, it means that they are worth picking up if you can use them right!

who agrees?
:slight_smile:

2

I agree, automatic weapons blow in halo. especially plasma rifle and repeater, why bother including them in a map no one picks them up unless they have a death wish.

3

> I agree, automatic weapons blow in halo. especially plasma rifle and repeater, why bother including them in a map no one picks them up unless they have a death wish.

I have no problems with full auto weapons in Halo…

4

I’m really liking option 2. I just tested it on Halo PC.

When the CE Assault Rifle is made headshot capable, it destroys Grunts and unshielded Elites. It really feels powerful and feels like an Assault Rifle despite having a large spread. I like it to the point where I forget about grenades and ditch the sniper. Tested on T&R legendary btw.

Therefore, if they go with option 2 for Halo 4, they should reduce the clip size and make the AR less accurate. But since the H3 AR already has a reduced clip size, it just needs an accuracy reduction or something.

5

I feel that i can get fair kills with automatics like reptor and ar. the plsma rifle really didnt change from halo 3 so that bad because in halo 3 it was duel wielded most of the time to make it more efficent. In reach u cant duel it so it becomes a piec of crap.

6

Halo 2 had dual-wield, Halo 3 had duel-wield; Halo 4 with dual-wield? I think so. Because the previous 2 games had dual-wielding, I think it’s likely we will see the automatic combination continue over to Halo 4.

Of course, I think it would be interesting to see option 1 applied. This gives each weapon a significant purpose, and a reason to pick it up.

I personally dislike Halo: Reach’s automatic weapons. I only ever pick up the DMR, needle rifle, plasma pistol and any power weapons. This pretty much says it all.

Every other weapon > automatic weapons. Of course excluding the needler, due to it’s annoying overpowered-ness (in my opinion).

Conclusion:

Apply option 1 whilst automatic weapons are not duel-wielded, then reduce the effects once duel-wielded to stop them from becoming overpowered. Or, decrease accuracy whilst duel-wielded. It makes sense. You’re holding 2 weapons - it’s going to be hard to keep both of them still whilst shots recoil back at you. The reticle could even wobble a little to display this. This could perhaps be too much of a disadvantage, however.

7

Agreed
I actually see no point of getting any other fully-automatic weapon in reach unless it is a needler. they need to fix this. NAO!

8

> Range:
> close quaters:
> Automatic weapon should win.
> mid range:
> they should be equal, depends on skill of user.
> long range:
> Rifles should win, but auto’s skill have a chance if skilled enough.
> Extream range:
> Rifles always win, although they can still be hit and kills by automatic weaponry.

The only part where I found myself disagreeing with you. This is how the ranges should go:

Melee range - close range:

At this range, automatic weapons should have an advantage over precision weapons. This means that the automatic weapon user can shoot at pretty careless accuracy and still win unless the precision weapon user is extremely skilled with the weapon they’re using or the automatic weapon user really messes up the whole situation.

Close-mid range:

At this range, the automatic weapons would be pretty much even with precision weapons. the automatic weapon user still doesn’t need to be 100% accurate and the precision weapon user can miss a shot if the automatic weapon user doesn’t shoot at very good accuracy.

Mid range:

From here on, as always, mid range belongs to precision weapons. At the closer end of mid range the automatic weapon user can still win, but that is limited to a very small area of the range. Anything above that and the precision weapon user is at advantage. This is mainly to keep sure that the sandbox of Halo stays as it should be and that automatic weapons won’t dominate at ranges that are too big. Of course the automatic weapon user can still beat a precision weapon user, but only if the precisio weapon user misses enough shots.

Mid-long range:

This is where automatic weapons are completely useless, more than one magazine needed to kill the opponent. There is really nothing special about this range.

Long range and beyond:

At this point Sniper rifles start to be useful even against less accurate precision weapons. Nothing special here either, other than the fact that this continues forever until we come at the ranges where even Sniper is impossible to hit with, but we will never see those ranges in the game.

That’s how I feel. And for the exact reason that mid range belongs to the utility weapons as utility weapon is the heart of the weapon sandbox and as most of the maps (other than BTB) in Halo are designed for mid ranged combat. Automatic weapons still dominate the ranges below this, but the utility weapon user can still beat them at their range because there should be no range where the utility weapon is completely pointless.

9

> The plasma rifle should be substantionally quicker at dropping sheilds than any balistic weaponry (ar, pistol, spiker, carbine, needle rifle) than any of these, but most notably the Ar as it is the counterpart.
> Human weapons should shoot quicker than brute weapons (spiker) but not as much damage than brute weapons, but still kill quicker than plasma weapons when sheilds are dropped.
>
> Basically for automatic weapons:
> Sheild destroy: Plasma>Brute weapons>Human weapons
> Health destroy: Brute weapons=Human weapons>plasma
> Rate of fire: Plasma>Human>brute weapons
>
> as you can see from above, all weapons have a purpose, and actually makes the weapons do what they were designed to do:
> Plasma-kills sheild excellent, not as good on flesh
> Human-jack of all trades, kills sheild ok, damage decent on flesh
> Brute-meant for power only, low rate of fire, high damage, kills sheild good, kills flesh ok.
>
> this is what they were designed to do, but it seems they are rarely used.
>
> in my opinion they should fix these problems to actually make them pickupable but to do this they must counter the other main sandbox in halo: ranged weapons.
>
> Range:
> close quaters:
> Automatic weapon should win.
> mid range:
> they should be equal, depends on skill of user.
> long range:
> Rifles should win, but auto’s skill have a chance if skilled enough.
> Extreme range:
> Rifles always win, although they can still be hit and kills by automatic weaponry.
> …

Halo 3 kind of had this scheme but it didn’t totally reach that level, the BR still owned everything.

This seems like a pretty good idea, but it needs some testing, etc.

10

Bring back ODST SMG. Not necessarily with suppressor.

SMG did damage in ODST, and without the silencer, it would be rather powerful. Plus, it has a scope.

11

If u bring back ODST smg keep it the same silencer and all.

12

Automatic weapons need a fix, I know they take less skill to use, but there’s a point of diminishing returns when everyone’s played Halo enough to have sufficient skill w/ DMR/Magnum to take out someone with the assault rifle.

Automatic weapons need a place in Halo to where if someone is charging you up close with the assault/plasma rifle, it’s gonna be damn hard to kill them with a target weapon.

13

Great ideas guys, and i’m glad you people feel the same as me.

could it be that making automatic weapons headshot capable will make this game work?

14

The simplest fix is to remove aim assist. The reason the so called “precision weapons” are so overpowering is that they practically aim themselves. Try playing Halo Anniversary with the Eye Patch skull on, it suddenly isn’t such a no brainer to ditch the AR for a pistol.

15

> Range:
> close quaters:
> Automatic weapon should win.
> mid range:
> they should be equal, depends on skill of user.
> long range:
> Rifles should win, but auto’s skill have a chance if skilled enough.
> Extream range:
> Rifles always win, although they can still be hit and kills by automatic weaponry.

For the most part, I can agree with your post, most of the Automatic weapons in this game need a buff (though the AR is a little stronger than in H3, I think?) for H4. However, when you were talking about ranges, I think it’d be a bit better if it went something like this:

CQC: Automatics should win, but there is still the chance for Rifles.
Short Range: Basically the same as CQC, Rifles are a little more favourable to a skilled player
Mid Range: Equal sounds okay, but only for a skilled Automatic user. The spread on the weapons is typically too great.
Long Range: Rifles should always win, though Automatics have the power to disrupt peoples aim, and, though very unlikely, kill.
Extreme Range: Rifles should always win, no matter what. Otherwise, what’s the point of having separate guns for separate ranges? Yeah, Automatics shouldn’t have a chance at this range.

My other problem is with your Option 2, not because it isn’t a good idea, but more because I think it makes the Automatics, especially the Plasma ones, far too versatile for what they are. They have a role in Halo, and I feel they should continue to fulfill this role, just with a buff to their damage.