> > This would be a great post, but the fact of the matter is all the +10 and so forth you pointed out aren’t credits earned, those are points, points for the team, kinda like a game of slayer ctf.
>
> Points for the team overall? Is that confirmed? If so, I stand corrected. Does this convert to global credit payouts at the end of a game? If so, this is obviously a good thing and somewhat addresses my concerns. That said, I still think my overall point about having a DISINCENTIVE for losing (beyond just not earning the credit payout you would, were you to win) is pretty crucial.
That’s incorrect what he’s saying, or at least it hasn’t been announced. In the flag gameplays so far, you can see that you gain 1 point per flag-cap and nothing for anything else.
> perhaps you should read other things I have said with toby. me and him basically agree. But i want this new option to be for default halo 4. And he wants it across the board. It shouldn’t go one way or the other. You will have your playlists that let you drop the flag And we could have ours where we don’t. Thats how it should be not all of this or all of that.
>
>
>
> We most certainly do not agree.
>
> Do not think for a second that you represent the casual community, as far as I’ve seen it’s completely split over whether or not flag-dropping is good.
>
>
> HaloGAF is up in arms about this change, THC is up in arms about this change, MLG is up in arms about this change, half of Waypoint is up in arms about this change.
>
>
> Are you trying to tell me this change was justified? Heck no. Everyone else can see this. Justifying awkwardness and trapping people in unfavourable positions with “MOAR TEAMWORKZ” isn’t something any gamer should attest to liking. It’s not fun getting trapped with a flag by accident, and it’s not fun being forced to play flag so uncreatively.
I don’t speak for the casuals or competitive. I don’t consider myself either. when i mention we us etc i ment people that agree with you and people that agree with me. How about you make this simple. Because i thought we are agreeing. DO you want flag dropping to be on all playlists and this new thing gone? Because i could have sworn you were only arguing for the option to have flag dropping back. Because if its that latter then we most certainly do agree.
> > > > > He can shoot and melee. He can defend himself. BUT he can’t handle everything like he could before. Hes not defenseless in the slightest. That is just plain hyperbull. Moving with your team mate so he doesn’t die is team work how could it not be? And i did address OP on all points. But instead of reading it he said “i can’t be bothered to read your post when its off topic.” He copped out, his OP is shotty half of the points were basically the same thing. Just adding more to make it seem horrible. I even agreed in the end of my post that MLG classic playlists and customs should have an option to drop the flag. Just not default halo 4. But the OP can’t and doesn’t argue he just refers to his half baked OP and tells people they are wrong.
> > > >
> > > > You could melee before, and you shoot a low-tier secondary weapon. You’re not going to be winning firefights. He is defenseless. A Magnum is going to lose to a DMR and BR in any situation. The Carbine, Light Rifle, etc. are going to decimate it. It’s not at all hyperbole, try running around with just a Magnum in Halo 3, you will get similar results. There may not be many reasons, but the ones that are there really make or break the gametype, You’re just sacrificing strategies to give the false sense of teamwork. It is going to be very similar to Reach, you’re not using teamwork as much as you are just relying on a teammate for survival. You don’t need to work together, just make sure he takes half the bullets.
> > >
> > > Thats funny. Because i can seem to remember doing well with the magnum in reach beating the DMR. Now granted Not every player out there can do well with a magnum. But a bad player is still a bad player. Same as a good player is still good. Being stuck with the magnum in a 1v1 encounter can go either way (provided the other player isn’t using a power weapon) Defenseless implies he can’t do anything to protect himself which he can. And saying “will lose every single time.” Is pure hyperbull. Your telling me that never ever in halo 4 someone can come out on top in a 1v1 as the flag carrier? Your deluted. As for the OP i did give him his valid points.
> >
> > The Magnum in Reach was a viable close-range weapon. Since it has been nerfed, the other weapons will easily defeat it. I mentioned Halo 3 specifically because the Magnum was trash.
> > Bad players are bad, and good players are good, but on equal-skilled players, the flag carrier will lose out simply because of his weapon. It will not be about skill at that point.
> >
> > Show me a single scenario where a Magnum outshoots a BR or DMR without needing a melee or any other weapon for support.
>
> I ignored the halo 3 comment because the halo 4 magnum is nothing like it. I played 4 games at RTX and one at PAX. the magnum is far away from trash. But i will save a clip of me beating another player as a flag carrier when i get the game.
Tell me, how many players did you beat when using just a Magnum with your time playing Halo 4?
> > perhaps you should read other things I have said with toby. me and him basically agree. But i want this new option to be for default halo 4. And he wants it across the board. It shouldn’t go one way or the other. You will have your playlists that let you drop the flag And we could have ours where we don’t. Thats how it should be not all of this or all of that.
> >
> >
> >
> > We most certainly do not agree.
> >
> > Do not think for a second that you represent the casual community, as far as I’ve seen it’s completely split over whether or not flag-dropping is good.
> >
> >
> > HaloGAF is up in arms about this change, THC is up in arms about this change, MLG is up in arms about this change, half of Waypoint is up in arms about this change.
> >
> >
> > Are you trying to tell me this change was justified? Heck no. Everyone else can see this. Justifying awkwardness and trapping people in unfavourable positions with “MOAR TEAMWORKZ” isn’t something any gamer should attest to liking. It’s not fun getting trapped with a flag by accident, and it’s not fun being forced to play flag so uncreatively.
>
> I don’t speak for the casuals or competitive. I don’t consider myself either. when i mention we us etc i ment people that agree with you and people that agree with me. How about you make this simple. Because i thought we are agreeing. DO you want flag dropping to be on all playlists and this new thing gone? Because i could have sworn you were only arguing for the option to have flag dropping back. Because if its that latter then we most certainly do agree.
I think that flag-dropping is the better option, and at the very least we need an option to put it back in.
Aside from that, I think it should be in every playlist, although that is just me being hopeful.
If you want to see why you need to be able to drop the flag watch this video. This is the teamwork that is added by being able to drop and flag and would be removed without it.
> > Your completely missing the point of my post that you quoted. I did not say “ive never been on my own.” I have been and why did that happen? because the other team broke our coordination And i should be punished for being beaten by the better team. If you go out on your own to do the objective by your self your not playing as a team and shouldn’t complain if you get beat.
> >
> > Thats like saying your ok with player A using armor lock to block all rockets from player B because instead of having better map control and keeping the power weapons away from the enemy he pressed his oops button to save his bad playing.
>
> If you’re on your own in their base, you will often try to stay alive, or run the flag even it means for a limited period of time. Mainly to create a distraction so that your team can push up unchallenged. How is that not teamwork? And if you manage to run the objective by yourself, my team either manages to help me or the other team is trash. In both scenarios, there’s nothing that indicates that the other team is better.
>
> No, it isn’t at all. But keep telling yourself that.
Yes thats what people usually do. But how do you end up there on your own? Did the other team beat your push and your stranded? Or did you run off on your own? IN both cases you shouldn’t be rewarded. You should be punished. Thats just it. I never said you couldn’t be a good player and run the objective on your own. But you should never try to on perpose. Because once again ill say it objective is about team play.
It is. you said you shouldn’t get punished for basically making a bad move (I.e trying to run the objective on your own or your push was beaten by the better team) in my example your Player A who made a bad move by not keeping the rockets away from the player B who kept better map control but still loses out because “you shouldn’t get punished.”
> > > Statpadding=killing the other team? Then yeah, it is. So it’s my teammates fault that I managed to run the flag myself? Are you listening to yourself?
> >
> > Again your not understand my post. There is a HUGE difference. In a game of randoms v randoms where no one is on mic 3 of 4 players are just kill -Yoink!- and the 4th is playing the objective. that is not team work.
> >
> > In a competitive setting where 3 out of the 4 are coordinating speaking to one another about which enemy is where and keeping them off the objective player that is team work.
>
> In a way, it is. It is the same as keeping the other team of the objective, only less deliberate.
It isn’t in the slightest. Its like having 2 mini teams in one team in my first example. Details do matter.
> > > perhaps you should read other things I have said with toby. me and him basically agree. But i want this new option to be for default halo 4. And he wants it across the board. It shouldn’t go one way or the other. You will have your playlists that let you drop the flag And we could have ours where we don’t. Thats how it should be not all of this or all of that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We most certainly do not agree.
> > >
> > > Do not think for a second that you represent the casual community, as far as I’ve seen it’s completely split over whether or not flag-dropping is good.
> > >
> > >
> > > HaloGAF is up in arms about this change, THC is up in arms about this change, MLG is up in arms about this change, half of Waypoint is up in arms about this change.
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you trying to tell me this change was justified? Heck no. Everyone else can see this. Justifying awkwardness and trapping people in unfavourable positions with “MOAR TEAMWORKZ” isn’t something any gamer should attest to liking. It’s not fun getting trapped with a flag by accident, and it’s not fun being forced to play flag so uncreatively.
> >
> > I don’t speak for the casuals or competitive. I don’t consider myself either. when i mention we us etc i ment people that agree with you and people that agree with me. How about you make this simple. Because i thought we are agreeing. DO you want flag dropping to be on all playlists and this new thing gone? Because i could have sworn you were only arguing for the option to have flag dropping back. Because if its that latter then we most certainly do agree.
>
> I think that flag-dropping is the better option, and at the very least we need an option to put it back in.
>
> Aside from that, I think it should be in every playlist, although that is just me being hopeful.
OK. So now that i know what you want lets say 343 does put the option in customs and its possible to drop the flag in MLG and classic playlists modes etc. But other default types would have no flag drop. Would you be content with that?
These changes add almost zero to the game. The only addition is a pistol while running, which isn’t even a big thing because before you could just drop the flag and use a powerful weapon to defend yourself.
There are litterally zero positives and anybody who thinks there are positives has only played CTF at the absolute lowest level of play.
Most noobs even understand why it is needed. Hell, I was talking to my COD friend about this and he even said that for Halo, it is a limited idea.
> OK. So now that i know what you want lets say 343 does put the option in customs and its possible to drop the flag in MLG and classic playlists modes etc. But other default types would have no flag drop. Would you be content with that?
Once again, you’re speaking for the community. If you’ve noticed, the majority of people do not want this superglue flag.
Lemme repeat that: The majority of people want to be able to drop the flag.
So why on earth would people want no flag-dropping in the majority of playlists? That sounds terrible.
Flag juggling should be prevented by implementing a 5 second time span on flag drop that doesn’t allow the player to instantly pick up the flag. Flag juggling doesn’t add anything to Halo’s CTF gameplay and never created much of a skill gap to begin with. Anyone who believes throwing the flag every second is a showmanship of skill is delusional and probably complaining for the sake of complaining.
> Flag juggling should be prevented by implementing a 5 second time span on flag drop that doesn’t allow the player to instantly pick up the flag. Flag juggling doesn’t add anything to Halo’s CTF gameplay and never created much of a skill gap to begin with. Anyone who believes throwing the flag every second is a showmanship of skill is delusional and probably complaining for the sake of complaining.
>
> Not to mention it looks ridiculous.
Power Rangers firing peas at each other while running around a city looks pretty dumb, too.
Flag juggling added choice and depth to the game. Although it is not needed with the flag carrier moving at 100% speed now. Still no real excuse to get rid of it, though. You give no reasons as to why flag juggling should be out, other than “it doesn’t take skill.”
> > OK. So now that i know what you want lets say 343 does put the option in customs and its possible to drop the flag in MLG and classic playlists modes etc. But other default types would have no flag drop. Would you be content with that?
>
> Once again, you’re speaking for the community. If you’ve noticed, the majority of people do not want this superglue flag.
>
>
> Lemme repeat that: The majority of people want to be able to drop the flag.
>
>
> So why on earth would people want no flag-dropping in the majority of playlists? That sounds terrible.
I don’t understand where in that post i was speaking for the community If anything i’ve been speaking for people who have liked my posts in this thread and others. And don’t even start this majority crap. If you mean majority of your 1 little thread then sure. But if EVERYONE that ever goes on to the forums and posts agreed with you the forums are a minority of the halo community as a whole. We can’t count people outside this forums opinions. so for all we know it could be a largely welcomed thing or a largely hated thing by the halo community.
Neither ideal should be forced upon everyone both “groups” those that like this option and those that don’t should be represented equally in halo 4.
Sorry, I didn’t want to read the whole thread. I guess we both viewed it as a perfect example regarding the detriment to gameplay brought by this change.
Wow, I was down on this game for various reasons but recently was started to get hyped for it after reading clarifications on several changes.
Now this?
I hated the people who flag juggled, but it made sense (and was largely nerfed in Reach anyhow). Now not being able to pass/drop the flag? That’s ridiculous. You know how many times I’ve had to drop the flag, toss a grenade, then keep moving? Or pass the flag down or up to a friend while I stayed back to defend.
Sometimes I play with teammates who just aren’t as good at actually getting kills. So I might pass the flag over to them after nabbing it and defend.
This is so stupid on so many levels. As others have said, having a pistol and nothing else for all intents and purposes makes you defenseless.
I was really hoping for CTF to return to form in H4. The maps and armor abilities kinda broke it in Halo Reach.
> > > OK. So now that i know what you want lets say 343 does put the option in customs and its possible to drop the flag in MLG and classic playlists modes etc. But other default types would have no flag drop. Would you be content with that?
> >
> > Once again, you’re speaking for the community. If you’ve noticed, the majority of people do not want this superglue flag.
> >
> >
> > Lemme repeat that: The majority of people want to be able to drop the flag.
> >
> >
> > So why on earth would people want no flag-dropping in the majority of playlists? That sounds terrible.
>
> I don’t understand where in that post i was speaking for the community If anything i’ve been speaking for people who have liked my posts in this thread and others. And don’t even start this majority crap. If you mean majority of your 1 little thread then sure. But if EVERYONE that ever goes on to the forums and posts agreed with you the forums are a minority of the halo community as a whole. We can’t count people outside this forums opinions. so for all we know it could be a largely welcomed thing or a largely hated thing by the halo community.
>
> Neither ideal should be forced upon everyone both “groups” those that like this option and those that don’t should be represented equally in halo 4.
It has been “forced” upon everyone for the past 11 years. Yet somehow CTF remains the favourite objective gamemode in Halo.
There’s no need to change what isn’t broken, especially when that change will piss off a large section of the community.