We need real balance. Not one weapon balance.

Games Other Halo
#1

I was on /vg/ and there was an entire post about Halo. And it was cool, just bros talking of memories and just such things. Yet the one thing people really hate is the new TU, at least a few things from it. The DMR has just become too damn powerful. I noticed it myself, While before other guns may have had some power at it’s range NOW the DMR just destroys -Yoink-.

On to the point

Halo 4 needs real weapon balance. Real weapon balance is not making one gun the one-do-all weapon of all trades. And just adding a Covenant version does not make it O.K that the Battle Rifle and DMR make up for more then half the infantry kills in Halo2,3 and Reach.

People will say Halo:CE had this problem. Yes the Pistol was powerful, We can agree it was strong. Maybe OP. However do not forget, time and time again, every other gun had a purpose, power and could kill. I bet if Halo:CE was online and was done right, as much as the Pistol may take up a good amount of kills, it wouldn’t be as much as a GAP as The BR/DMR has.

I don’t hate the Battle Rifle, Pistol, DMR or single shot weapons. I think it’s fine they have a slight edge over some guns when used by a PROFESSIONAL PLAYER. However not everyone who uses the BR or DMR is automatically a pro. Just because they made the DMR easier to use does not make it a perfect weapon. It fact they just made the DMR more casual then before. They ruined any potential balance Reach even had.

People have tricked themselves into believing using a “pro” style weapon means they understand skill, balance and the right direction for Halo. It takes more then using a weapon and a high K.D to understand balance. So stop pretending that your opinions mean more because you have more rifle kills then plasma kills

The way to balance Halo 4…

Make guns useful. Every gun should be able to kill in the hands of either the right person, or range. Example would be the Assault Rifle vs a RIFLE. The A.R should have an edge at close range, Infact I don’t think it should not have an advantage at it’s range (Mid range would take more skill. BUT DUDEMAN19 THIS JUST PROMOTES SPRAY N PRAY THE BETTER PLAYER SHOULD WIN IF THEY HAVE A DMR/BR

Indeed. However the Pro player should not be going into a close encounter fight with a Single Shot Rifle and expecting to win. A real PRO would know when to use what gun, at what time. That is a PRO, Using nothing but the BR makes you as much as a pro as a kid who collects nascar wheels and says "IM PART OF NASCAR LOL IM A PRO RACER

A Pro is one who knows when to use what gun. My brother kicked my -Yoink- in Halo:CE. He would let me use the Pistol, Power Weapons and such and he would still whoop my -Yoink-. Because at the time (being so young) i believd the Pistol would automatically destroy anything at anytime. I learned this is not the case. Yet now I know “Hey maybe going into this base I should use a Shotgun or A.R in this area”.

Back on topic!

It’s fine that one gun could be used at more ranges or such, since Mid-Range is a lot more open and vast then Long or Close the Battle Rifle should act as the Pistol, weaker, but the same role. A gun that is good, in the hands of a good player, and when used RIGHT. Yet there’s some types of encounters a DMR or BR should not really win.

Vehicles

Vehicles need a effing boost. A single warthog should be able to do the same damage as a Falcon or Banshee. If the Hog Turret is going to have a cool down then make it powerful. A warthog should not be taken down by a random Sniper (who isn’t skilled) and a few DMR shooters.

Tanks need more blast.

Banshees don’t need homing, but power on both guns.

Ghosts need to do A LOT OF DAMAGE. Or a lot more armor

Bring back The Chopper

Bring back the Spectre

Also

>Duel Wielding would be nice.

>AA’s are not bad. Yet only in Invasion and special modes. Halo is infact better without Equipment or AA’s (Even if I like em personally)

>More options. A lot. More options never hurt

>Vehicles need to be feared.

>DMR’s, BR’s and such should be good. Yet when a gun takes up 50+% of all kills in a game with more then a dozen guns it’s pretty sad.

Peace

#2

I feel that the TU is the most balanced Halo has ever been. The DMR is effective at long to medium range but try getting close to an AR with it and see how long you last. I think the only changes needed for vehicles is to make the hog get pushed around less by small arms fire. Just my opinions though friend.

#3

I find it to be too strong. I kill wit hit much easier then before and other guns don’t have as much power anymore.

Yet that’s just me. I find it to be too easy now. Before I kinda sucked with the DMR or was just average. Now I feel like I’m a GOD.

#4

The whole “balance” subject is just made up of circular logic. Without bloom, precision weapons (BR, Carbine) will always dominate because of their need for power to function at medium-long range. But if there’s bloom, combat at medium-long range will automatically break due to the inconsistency and randomness. It’s impossible to balance a sandbox of weapons that work at separate ranges.

A plausible thing to do would be to make every basic weapon medium-range, including automatics who would have reduced bloom, but the same power, coupled with fast movement speeds to allow for strafing. Non-automatics would have no bloom, and no spread for that matter.

If done right, most of the weapons, with different functions like firing rate, recoil, etc, would have relative kill times suited to their functions, making it all come down to ‘skill’ while leaving plenty of room for the player’s choice of weapon.

#5

No matter if we start with ARs or DMRs my first objective is to get a DMR or needle rifle. Precision weapons should dominate like they do. You said <mark>However the Pro player should not be going into a close encounter fight with a Single Shot Rifle and expecting to win.</mark> Well if a “PRO PLAYER” gets into a close quarters battle melees the enemy, then jumps back and gets a headshot that would automatically make the kill time in a CQB situaton for the DMR more superior to that of the AR. I agree to an extent that the AR could get a little buffing but not to an extent that it over powers the DMR or BR in mid range combat. The AR is already a fierce weapon at mid range in numbers. Also I want to know how much you actually know about competetive Halo? 90% of the battle you get into are close to mid range. Especially on Countdown and Zealot.

#6

> People have tricked themselves into believing using a “pro” style weapon means they understand skill, balance and the right direction for Halo. It takes more then using a weapon and a high K.D to understand balance. So stop pretending that your opinions mean more because you have more rifle kills then plasma kills

You know, everyone who actually understands even something about the weapon sandbox knows that the sandbox needs to more effective. No competitive Halo player who understands the gameplay would say that the sandbox should only consist of utility weapon and power weapons. I really don’t know how many people here actually understand how the sandbox should be, but you should just ignore anyone who actually says that Halo needs only the utility weapon and power weapons.

But a matter of fact is that the current situation of the weapon sandbox has forced the utility weapon to be the only viable (non-power weapon in competitive gameplay). But a matter of fact is that the competitive community doesn’t really enjoy it. Like you, we don’t like using a single weapon all the time, but we have been forced to. We really don’t like the situations after the TU, but it’s more bearable than the situation before it.

Anyhow, the sandbox should still keep its hierarchical structure where power weapons are the most useful, utility weapons come secondary, and niche weapons last. With that as the basic structure for the sandbox, the niche weapons should be made so that they offer an advantage in their own niche over utility weapons, but a very skilled utility weapon user can possibly beat a less skilled niche weapon user.

What comes to your balancing ideas for the vehicle sandbox. Well, first I must say that the Reach vehicle sandbox is a mess. There are either vehicles that are completely useless or vehicles that are completely useless against a decent team but overpowered if you know how to abuse them. Then there are the few vehicles that aren’t completely useless where only problem is the health system.

With that out of the way, it needs to be said that vehicles need a different health system. Even at their weakest, they need at least some health to not get blown up by if someone throws a feather at them. They’re far too weak in their current state. Small arms shouldn’t even be making damage to vehicles, we have power weapons (non-sniper), grenades, and minor explosives (Concussion Rifle/Brute Shot) for that job.

What comes to the vehicles themselves, at least the tank needs nothing more. It was one of the few fairly succesful vehicles in Reach.

The homing ability should be taken away from Banshee, it was annoying for the user at best. The splash damage of the bomb also needs to be seriously toned down, and so do the tricks. Never again should Banshee be given the ability to be used liked it was used in Reach.

Ghost needs nothing more except a better health system. I disagree with you on the damage aspect. It’s perfect as it is, the shots just need some little bullet drop so that the Ghost wouldn’t be too useful at range against infantry. The weapons should be used mainly against vehicles, against infantry you should either be required to go up close or splatter the players.

I definitely agree with your main point, but your image of a pro/competitive player is a bit twisted. After all, we don’t like playing with a single weapon either. We’d be more than happy if we got to use a wider variety of weapons.

#7

> No matter if we start with ARs or DMRs my first objective is to get a DMR or needle rifle. Precision weapons should dominate like they do. You said <mark>However the Pro player should not be going into a close encounter fight with a Single Shot Rifle and expecting to win.</mark> Well if a “PRO PLAYER” gets into a close quarters battle melees the enemy, then jumps back and gets a headshot that would automatically make the kill time in a CQB situaton for the DMR more superior to that of the AR. I agree to an extent that the AR could get a little buffing but not to an extent that it over powers the DMR or BR in mid range combat. The AR is already a fierce weapon at mid range in numbers. Also I want to know how much you actually know about competetive Halo? 90% of the battle you get into are close to mid range. Especially on Countdown and Zealot.

Countdown is a frag/melee fest. Good thing we have Armor Lock for all of that.

#8

Countdown is a frag/melee fest. Good thing we have Armor Lock for all of that.

[/quote]
I was talking about MLG not regular playlist.

#9

If they do bring the BR back and keeping the DMR as well, they could run it like this.

DMR, slower rate of fire, but more accurate at longer ranges, but still useful at medium. Up close, it does’nt do as well, but still capable of killing if in the right hands.

BR: High rate of fire, but bloom is heavily increased. 3 round burst having the same damage for a single DMR per bullet. Practically useless at long range, and does decent at medium range, but still with the spread for the player to deal with.

For vehicles, yes, we need their armor last substantially longer with increased damage. The only other thing that should really make a difference for vehicular combat is with another vehicle or explosives. Add more variety what we have available. Ensemble made Halo Wars, so add some, if not all the vehicles from their lineup. This especially goes for the chopper, which does belong.

As for the AAs are concerned, make them go back to H3 style and scatter them on the battlefield and for the love of god get rid of the loadouts (Or leave them only for Firefight). AAs never bothered me too much, but things like Armor Lock and Cloaking should remain as powerups instead of things that can be permanently used. Add stuff like laser trip wires that ping on your radar, or the jackal’s shield. It would’nt hurt to fix some of the issues with the existings AAs, like make the reticle turn red when you put it on a hologram.

Grenades.

Bubbleshield. Can be used in grenade form that can be used offensively and defensively. Make it an impassable object so you can either save yourself by shielding your body or allies, or use it to block off and/or trap enemies with its field.

Bring back spike grenades.

#10

I say we definitely need to break the utility weapon cycle. All weapons should have a unique use; the weapon we spawn with shouldn’t be a “do everything” weapon.

#11

> I say we definitely need to break the utility weapon cycle. All weapons should have a unique use; the weapon we spawn with shouldn’t be a “do everything” weapon.

Utility weapon isn’t synonymous to an omnipotent weapon. A perfect utility weapon is good at its own range which is the mid range, but less than optimal for long and close range. For example, utility weapon should be able to effectively harass a sniper at long range, but unable to kill them unless they don’t react to the incoming shots. On the other end of the spectrum, a good utility weapon user should have the potential to beat a less skilled niche weapon user, at the niche weapon’s own range, while having a small disadvantage. In a hypothetical situation AR user should have the advantage over BR user in the AR’s niche, but if the BR user played their cards right they could still potentially win the situations.

Utility weapon is a necessity to the sandbox of Halo, as didn’t it exist, your ability to move around the map would be seriously limited by the weapons you are holding. In fact, it’s evident in the current sandbox with sets of two weapons that don’t include ranged weapons. Person with AR and Shotgun can only effectively move in close range areas and at the smaller end of the mid range. But is unable to go to more open areas because of being in a serious disadvantage over anyone who has precision weapon. This is one of the main reasons why the secondary spawn weapon needs to be an utility weapon.

#12

> I say we definitely need to break the utility weapon cycle. All weapons should have a unique use; the weapon we spawn with shouldn’t be a “do everything” weapon.

You would never understand unless you get better and play better players. Do you have any idea how much spawn killing that takes place in High level gameplay if everyone starts with the AR? If you lose top-control you have nothing to protect you of spawn and will get spawn killed by the rest of the weapon-sandbox. That is why we have the utility weapon to protect us of spawn.

#13

> > I say we definitely need to break the utility weapon cycle. All weapons should have a unique use; the weapon we spawn with shouldn’t be a “do everything” weapon.
>
> You would never understand unless you get better and play better players. Do you have any idea how much spawn killing that takes place in High level gameplay if everyone starts with the AR? If you lose top-control you have nothing to protect you of spawn and will get spawn killed by the rest of the weapon-sandbox. That is why we have the utility weapon to protect us of spawn.

Uh, you kinda contradicted yourself there…

#14

This one-gun-game mentality has got to go. Otherwise developers are literally wasting their time even making other weapons.

If H4 is a one gun game im going to be pissed.

#15

> > I say we definitely need to break the utility weapon cycle. All weapons should have a unique use; the weapon we spawn with shouldn’t be a “do everything” weapon.
>
> Utility weapon isn’t synonymous to an omnipotent weapon. A perfect utility weapon is good at its own range which is the mid range, but less than optimal for long and close range. For example, utility weapon should be able to effectively harass a sniper at long range, but unable to kill them unless they don’t react to the incoming shots. On the other end of the spectrum, a good utility weapon user should have the potential to beat a less skilled niche weapon user, at the niche weapon’s own range, while having a small disadvantage. In a hypothetical situation AR user should have the advantage over BR user in the AR’s niche, but if the BR user played their cards right they could still potentially win the situations.
>
> Utility weapon is a necessity to the sandbox of Halo, as didn’t it exist, your ability to move around the map would be seriously limited by the weapons you are holding. In fact, it’s evident in the current sandbox with sets of two weapons that don’t include ranged weapons. Person with AR and Shotgun can only effectively move in close range areas and at the smaller end of the mid range. But is unable to go to more open areas because of being in a serious disadvantage over anyone who has precision weapon. This is one of the main reasons why the secondary spawn weapon needs to be an utility weapon.

As you forgetting the fact that halo invented the concept of having 2 guns only on your person? Thats because you CHOOSE your role carefully by which guns you have. If you have a shotgun and AR then you chose to be a CQB player. You cant complain about being limited to indoors when you chose that role. This logic also applies to abilities, chose your ability and choose your role. Goddamit why dont people understand this?

The standard AR + pistol spawn is perfect. The pistol is a great gun and you will have no trouble defending yourself off spawn if youre not terrible.

DMR spwans defeat the entire point of the sandbox and anyone calling for DMR spawn everywhere is some sort of moron. The only exception is in huge maps like hemmy which exhaust the (substantial) range of the pistol.

#16

MLG wrote an essay on the importance of a utility weapon. Go dig it up.

#17

The weapon balance seems fine to me. I find nothing more satisfying than picking up a plasma repeater like say on Zealot and totally owning some fool who has a DMR because I can out strafe him. Using inferior weapons against a superior one and still beating your opponent is hilarious.

#18

One gun that is strong. Yet all guns are useful.

As for vehicles, yes they need a buff. They need to be feared again. And of course, no vehicle health for tanks (keep the destructible parts though). The hog needs to be more heavier so it can stop flipping so much (the H1 hog was perfect). The ghost needs better traction and should be fast without the boost. Also, when I boost with the Ghost, I shouldn’t be slowed down if the wing hits an enemy. This is bs. Splattering with the Ghost is really a pain in the -Yoink- (note the video does not really depict how difficult it was to get splatters without being stopped. It just shows the one time where I was actually successful. Most of the time, I ended up coming to a complete halt) and splattering with the hog is even more pathetic.

The Banshee and Wraith need to be redone because the current formula (more firepower compensated by vulnerability) is bs. Make both faster, more resistant to firearms, give the Wraith better traction and give the Banshee a temporary hover. But also nerf the Banshee so that tricks aren’t that fast and the Banshee bomb isn’t as devastating. Finally, less autoaim for the Ghost and Wraith!!! The Reach Wraith in particular is so horrific. The only thing that should be kept from the Reach wraith is the refined boost and Wraith mortar speed and arc.

#19

There should be a wide variety of weapons, and every one should have a place. There should be no dominating weapons, other than obvious power weapons. No overpowered utility weapons, please.

#20

> As you forgetting the fact that halo invented the concept of having 2 guns only on your person? Thats because you CHOOSE your role carefully by which guns you have. If you have a shotgun and AR then you chose to be a CQB player. You cant complain about being limited to indoors when you chose that role. This logic also applies to abilities, chose your ability and choose your role. Goddamit why dont people understand this?
>
> The standard AR + pistol spawn is perfect. The pistol is a great gun and you will have no trouble defending yourself off spawn if youre not terrible.
>
> DMR spwans defeat the entire point of the sandbox and anyone calling for DMR spawn everywhere is some sort of moron. The only exception is in huge maps like hemmy which exhaust the (substantial) range of the pistol.

The original intention of Bungie with the two weapon limit was to make player’s decision more tactical. Fortunately, they accidentally made the pistol in Halo CE useful enough to bring the utility weapon to the game.

You see, the concept of limiting player to a single range, and that range only until they find a new weapon is boring, and doesn’t offer much for gameplay either. Being limited to a role is oftentimes a boring and frustrating task. I don’t know about you, but if I always had to stay on certain areas of the map before I found new weapons, I would get sick of the game after few matches. The ability to transfer between different areas because of the utility weapon creates more dynamin and, in the long run, more strategic gameplay than limiting everyone to a single role.

I have nothing against spawning with AR and pistol, as long as the pistol has zoom, big enough magazine and no bloom to be competent enough at range. The pistol of Reach erally isn’t the best spawn weapon. The optimal choice would be to have players spawn with the utility weapon, so that they would have equal chances against the opponents off spawn.

If we had a situation of other team spawn trapping the other, the team that has been spawn trapped would have very slim chances of breaking out of the spawn trap if they didn’t have utility weapon starts. And it doesn’t only apply to spawn trap situations. I always found regular Slayer in Halo 3 frustrating when I was spawned with the AR and a weak pistol against players with BRs. It simply didn’t work when you were at serious disadvantage immediately when you spawned.

And remember, talking about how superior the DMR is is pointless. We aren’t talking about the Reach sandbox here. I’m basing all what I say to the most ideal, realistic, model of a sandbox in Halo 4. Even with a slightly less ideal, Halo CE style, sandbox utility ewapon spawns wouldn’t render the niche weapons useless.