WE NEED FORERUNNERS TO APPEAR AS NEW ENEMY IN HALO

Every Halo game has the same old Covenant enemies and they are getting more boring to fight with each new game.And i think they are the downfall of Halo 4 and 5 Campaigns.They were great enemies in the first trilogy cause we got new species and new vehicles introduced in those sequels and Halo 3 made a great ending with the end of the Covenant-Human war.Then ODST and Reach came out with more Covenant enemies but ok those were prequels and told good side stories.But why bring them back in Halo 4 and 5 when there are Forerunners that could make a return.It would make Halo fresh again for older fans and welcome new players to a whole new fight.

The reason those enemies are there, are because many of them are still the enemies of Humankind.

Also, we have Knights, Soldiers, Crawlers, and Watchers (introduced in Halo 4)

The problem with Forerunner enemies is tat it caps their power at significantly lower than it should be according to the canonical lore. I’d rather not be up against the Forerunners’ better stuff unless we are playing as ancient humanity (or equivalent) where we are of a comparable power level to the Forerunners, so they can be totally epic,because we’re epic enough to have a shot at beating them.

Most of them are already dead,so if you want to fight them,fight sentinels and Prometheans.

Wouldn’t work. A Forerunner warrior is an appreciable threat to a continent depending on the gear he has. There’s no scenario in which Forerunners as enemies works logically.

I agree the Covenant is boring, and that 343i are afraid of the consequences of shedding them as a primary enemy (for gameplay reasons). That said, live Forerunners wouldn’t work because they’d either be too powerful and harm the gameplay or too weak and harm the story.

What we really need is a bigger variety of Promethean enemies with more interesting abilities that can interact with eachother. But again, that a gameplay issue.

With Halo 5 bringing “the end of the Covenant” AGAIN one can only hope that this time it’ll be for real. The Banished are fine, though. They are different enough.

Why are you guys all telling they are too powerful?i didn’t read the Forerunner books so i dont know a lot about their combat strength, if it’s more explained there.Is it their weapons or armor that you think our Spartans couldn’t handle?I can imagine their Ships was their biggest strength as the Covenants Ships based on their technology gave Humans the biggest trouble in war.But if those Ships were destroyed by Flood and like just couple hundreds of Forerunners survived would they still be too powerful?

> 2533274811192667;2:
> The reason those enemies are there, are because many of them are still the enemies of Humankind.
>
> Also, we have Knights, Soldiers, Crawlers, and Watchers (introduced in Halo 4)

Knights, soldiers, crawlers, and watchers are a horrible attempt at making forerunner enemies. They barely feel forerunner very bad design.

They already did, remember? The didact in halo 4 and the promethean horde.

I’d really rather not see too much Forerunner tech get used for antagonistic purposes, and especially not for being the primary enemies of a game. It’s already really suspicious that humanity is having such an easy go at the Prometheans. I’d probably just drop the series if they started having Infinity snipe down War Sphinxes or something. That’s way too much of the story’s integrity lost at that point.

> 2533274875328566;8:
> > 2533274811192667;2:
> > The reason those enemies are there, are because many of them are still the enemies of Humankind.
> >
> > Also, we have Knights, Soldiers, Crawlers, and Watchers (introduced in Halo 4)
>
> Knights, soldiers, crawlers, and watchers are a horrible attempt at making forerunner enemies. They barely feel forerunner very bad design.

I don’t think we really have much of a measure of what “Forerunner” design for enemies would be like. All we’ve really had are various Sentinel variants and all they really did was float and shoot laser. The Prometheans designs are fine, they just aren’t all that interesting to fight. But then again arguably Sentinels aren’t that interesting to fight either.

> 2533274951753761;7:
> Why are you guys all telling they are too powerful?i didn’t read the Forerunner books so i dont know a lot about their combat strength, if it’s more explained there.Is it their weapons or armor that you think our Spartans couldn’t handle?I can imagine their Ships was their biggest strength as the Covenants Ships based on their technology gave Humans the biggest trouble in war.But if those Ships were destroyed by Flood and like just couple hundreds of Forerunners survived would they still be too powerful?

Some of their basic weapons fire antimatter (Binary Rifle and Incineration Cannon with presumably the Scattershot as well based on their descriptions). Antimatter annihilates matter whenever it hits it and using the convention that 1 kiloton TNT equivalent = 4.184×1012 joules, one gram of antimatter reacting with one gram of ordinary matter results in 42.96 kilotons-equivalent of energy (though there is considerable “loss” by production of neutrinos). Source Wikipedia.

Meanwhile Forerunner armor can survive that and adapt to become immune to it. I repeat, their armor can and will adapt to become immune to antimatter once hit. The paint job requires a laser that vaporizes Elites (excess of 2.99 gigajoules or over .7 tons of TNT) to damage it, only t be repaired seconds later. The Didact beat Black Team to death with his bare hands and curbstomped Blue Team after falling from orbit with a damaged suit of armor.

On top of that, Forerunners don’t fight like we do. Instead of sending soldiers, they send their self replicating swarm of death bots (numbering in the millions) to take out their foes with a few exceptions.

A basic Sentinel tank (Halo Legends) can vaporize a city and the explosion be visible for orbit. A War Sphinx, considered old and outdated by the Flood war, could lift up pieces of a continent and throw them at you.

A civilian ship can ram a planet, create a new ocean from the impact while landing on its side, and be perfectly ok outside of not operating at full power afterwards, which we admittedly don’t know the cause of the power issue. Could be that the San’Shyuum (Prophets) were unable to fully access its systems due to not being Reclaimers, Mendicant Bias preventing them, or the crash. No one really knows at this time.

To quote Rama, a user on Spacebattles whom examined the scene,

“Many years after the Forerunners abandoned the galaxy, a shard of of Mendicant piloted a Keyship in an attempt to aid humanity, only to create a new body of water comparable to an enormous sea upon impact, causing the ship to be submerged within the original bedrock that would form High Charity that it later hefted into orbit upon reactivation.

Assuming the impact crater was comparable to the Salton sea (the smallest inland sea on Earth - hardly what one would call enormous) the impact would have to excavate a complex transient crater approximately 25 km wide, with a volume of 8 cubic kilometers, requiring a 19 billion metric Keyship to impact the surface at 40-50 kilometers per second with a final kinetic energy of 4-5 TT; by comparison the K-T impact cratered an area 120 km wide, twenty five times the volume of our hypothetical Keyship impact, following an estimated 100 TT blast that ultimately led to extinction boundary event recorded 65 million years ago. The force of the Keyship impact would have been tremendous, blasting millions of tons of debris into orbit and wiping out countless native species in both the tremendous blast and the continent spanning firestorms created by reheating ejecta and other ignition sources, such as those created by the enormous bow wave of superheated, ionized gas in front of the ship as it passed through the atmosphere. However the survival of the impactor would mean that dust loading would only be accounted for in the finer particulate ejecta rather than the vaporization of the vessel, and whilst the devastation to life would be incalculable, organisms at just over 2000 km from the impact site would only experience brief yet violent earthquakes, 0.5-1 PSI pressure changes and only a light scattering of several microns of particulate matter; primitive San 'Shyuum on the opposing side of the planet may never notice the impact itself except for mild earthquakes and ballistic ejecta, with long term damage to the ozone layer, chemical and water injection from large bodies of vaporised land and the loading of the atmosphere due to fine particulate matter likely hampering agrarian settlements and other natural cycles.

At ground zero itself the Keyship would have likely created a sea of slag, as the formation of a depression over four kilometers across would lead to a complex crater that slowly filled with liquidized materials that would have engulfed and cooled around the vessel, eventually allowing the formation of the sea (possibly due to the vast quantity of water aerosol generated around the impact site) that would partially submerge the vessel for tens of thousands of years. Even if we ignore the blast and look only at the structure of the ship itself, it would have to be enormously strong in order to simply survive the forces imposed upon the bulk and yet remain intact, requiring materials tens of thousands of times stronger than steel to not warp or shatter (let alone be vaporized itself). The precedent for such events of course exists, such as a segment of a Halo ring surviving an uncontrolled planetary reentry that left it intact, despite the impact inevitably scarring the planet to a degree as to be observable from mid orbital boundaries.”

The Didact’s warship meanwhile kicked the UNSC fleet’s teeth in using only point defense weapons (that were vaporizing shielded UNSC warships in a single shot) and was not damaged by any of the ships or ODPs until the Infinity used its magic MACs (MACs are not beam weapons, they are mass accelerators so that scene makes no sense for depicting a projectile weapon) to punch a small hole large enough for Chief’s Broadsword through the thinnest part of the ship. That got repaired seconds later. We know for other ship weapons the Forerunners use antimatter beams, torsion drives which let them manipulate gravity to rip apart ships, hardlight weapons, regular beam weapons that have been calculated to be in the gigatons as the lowest possible showing, ion cannons that can buckle continental plates (basically teratons is the lowest possible requirement to do that based), and possibly planet busting weapons as they have a ship class called the Planet Breaker and random Forerunner civilians (albeit Miners) can and have blown up planets to settle disputes simply out of spite.

So yes living Forerunners are too OP. Their ships and weapons (Prometheans can’t make full use of their weapons because they’re not living Forerunners) when used by them break the current setting.

No. Aliens that have access to tech millions of years more adavanced would and should be REALLY overpowered. It’s already weird we can fight in any way against forerunner robots and their vehicles. Only way I can see this happening is nerf them somehow. Like for exanmle we find forerunner civilization that has had no access to their tech. How would they even return anyway?

> 2533275013291255;12:
> > 2533274951753761;7:
> > Why are you guys all telling they are too powerful?i didn’t read the Forerunner books so i dont know a lot about their combat strength, if it’s more explained there.Is it their weapons or armor that you think our Spartans couldn’t handle?I can imagine their Ships was their biggest strength as the Covenants Ships based on their technology gave Humans the biggest trouble in war.But if those Ships were destroyed by Flood and like just couple hundreds of Forerunners survived would they still be too powerful?
>
> Some of their basic weapons fire antimatter (Binary Rifle and Incineration Cannon with presumably the Scattershot as well based on their descriptions). Antimatter annihilates matter whenever it hits it and using the convention that 1 kiloton TNT equivalent = 4.184×1012 joules, one gram of antimatter reacting with one gram of ordinary matter results in 42.96 kilotons-equivalent of energy (though there is considerable “loss” by production of neutrinos). Source Wikipedia.
>
> Meanwhile Forerunner armor can survive that and adapt to become immune to it. I repeat, their armor can and will adapt to become immune to antimatter once hit. The paint job requires a laser that vaporizes Elites (excess of 2.99 gigajoules or over .7 tons of TNT) to damage it, only t be repaired seconds later. The Didact beat Black Team to death with his bare hands and curbstomped Blue Team after falling from orbit with a damaged suit of armor.
>
> On top of that, Forerunners don’t fight like we do. Instead of sending soldiers, they send their self replicating swarm of death bots (numbering in the millions) to take out their foes with a few exceptions.
>
> A basic Sentinel tank (Halo Legends) can vaporize a city and the explosion be visible for orbit. A War Sphinx, considered old and outdated by the Flood war, could lift up pieces of a continent and throw them at you.
>
> A civilian ship can ram a planet, create a new ocean from the impact while landing on its side, and be perfectly ok outside of not operating at full power afterwards, which we admittedly don’t know the cause of the power issue. Could be that the San’Shyuum (Prophets) were unable to fully access its systems due to not being Reclaimers, Mendicant Bias preventing them, or the crash. No one really knows at this time.
>
> To quote Rama, a user on Spacebattles whom examined the scene,
>
> “Many years after the Forerunners abandoned the galaxy, a shard of of Mendicant piloted a Keyship in an attempt to aid humanity, only to create a new body of water comparable to an enormous sea upon impact, causing the ship to be submerged within the original bedrock that would form High Charity that it later hefted into orbit upon reactivation.
>
> Assuming the impact crater was comparable to the Salton sea (the smallest inland sea on Earth - hardly what one would call enormous) the impact would have to excavate a complex transient crater approximately 25 km wide, with a volume of 8 cubic kilometers, requiring a 19 billion metric Keyship to impact the surface at 40-50 kilometers per second with a final kinetic energy of 4-5 TT; by comparison the K-T impact cratered an area 120 km wide, twenty five times the volume of our hypothetical Keyship impact, following an estimated 100 TT blast that ultimately led to extinction boundary event recorded 65 million years ago. The force of the Keyship impact would have been tremendous, blasting millions of tons of debris into orbit and wiping out countless native species in both the tremendous blast and the continent spanning firestorms created by reheating ejecta and other ignition sources, such as those created by the enormous bow wave of superheated, ionized gas in front of the ship as it passed through the atmosphere. However the survival of the impactor would mean that dust loading would only be accounted for in the finer particulate ejecta rather than the vaporization of the vessel, and whilst the devastation to life would be incalculable, organisms at just over 2000 km from the impact site would only experience brief yet violent earthquakes, 0.5-1 PSI pressure changes and only a light scattering of several microns of particulate matter; primitive San 'Shyuum on the opposing side of the planet may never notice the impact itself except for mild earthquakes and ballistic ejecta, with long term damage to the ozone layer, chemical and water injection from large bodies of vaporised land and the loading of the atmosphere due to fine particulate matter likely hampering agrarian settlements and other natural cycles.
>
> At ground zero itself the Keyship would have likely created a sea of slag, as the formation of a depression over four kilometers across would lead to a complex crater that slowly filled with liquidized materials that would have engulfed and cooled around the vessel, eventually allowing the formation of the sea (possibly due to the vast quantity of water aerosol generated around the impact site) that would partially submerge the vessel for tens of thousands of years. Even if we ignore the blast and look only at the structure of the ship itself, it would have to be enormously strong in order to simply survive the forces imposed upon the bulk and yet remain intact, requiring materials tens of thousands of times stronger than steel to not warp or shatter (let alone be vaporized itself). The precedent for such events of course exists, such as a segment of a Halo ring surviving an uncontrolled planetary reentry that left it intact, despite the impact inevitably scarring the planet to a degree as to be observable from mid orbital boundaries.”
>
> The Didact’s warship meanwhile kicked the UNSC fleet’s teeth in using only point defense weapons (that were vaporizing shielded UNSC warships in a single shot) and was not damaged by any of the ships or ODPs until the Infinity used its magic MACs (MACs are not beam weapons, they are mass accelerators so that scene makes no sense for depicting a projectile weapon) to punch a small hole large enough for Chief’s Broadsword through the thinnest part of the ship. That got repaired seconds later. We know for other ship weapons the Forerunners use antimatter beams, torsion drives which let them manipulate gravity to rip apart ships, hardlight weapons, regular beam weapons that have been calculated to be in the gigatons as the lowest possible showing, ion cannons that can buckle continental plates (basically teratons is the lowest possible requirement to do that based), and possibly planet busting weapons as they have a ship class called the Planet Breaker and random Forerunner civilians (albeit Miners) can and have blown up planets to settle disputes simply out of spite.
>
> So yes living Forerunners are too OP. Their ships and weapons (Prometheans can’t make full use of their weapons because they’re not living Forerunners) when used by them break the current setting.

A big THANK YOU for such awesome explanation of Forerunners Strength,i must admit that you shocked me with those jaw-dropping facts.I just wonder how the Ancient Humanity was able to keep up with them in a fight?LOL

> 2533274951753761;14:
> > 2533275013291255;12:
> > > 2533274951753761;7:
> > >
> >
> > Some of their basic weapons fire antimatter (Binary Rifle and Incineration Cannon with presumably the Scattershot as well based on their descriptions). Antimatter annihilates matter whenever it hits it and using the convention that 1 kiloton TNT equivalent = 4.184×1012 joules, one gram of antimatter reacting with one gram of ordinary matter results in 42.96 kilotons-equivalent of energy (though there is considerable “loss” by production of neutrinos). Source Wikipedia.
> >
> > Meanwhile Forerunner armor can survive that and adapt to become immune to it. I repeat, their armor can and will adapt to become immune to antimatter once hit. The paint job requires a laser that vaporizes Elites (excess of 2.99 gigajoules or over .7 tons of TNT) to damage it, only t be repaired seconds later. The Didact beat Black Team to death with his bare hands and curbstomped Blue Team after falling from orbit with a damaged suit of armor.
> >
> > On top of that, Forerunners don’t fight like we do. Instead of sending soldiers, they send their self replicating swarm of death bots (numbering in the millions) to take out their foes with a few exceptions.
> >
> > A basic Sentinel tank (Halo Legends) can vaporize a city and the explosion be visible for orbit. A War Sphinx, considered old and outdated by the Flood war, could lift up pieces of a continent and throw them at you.
> >
> > A civilian ship can ram a planet, create a new ocean from the impact while landing on its side, and be perfectly ok outside of not operating at full power afterwards, which we admittedly don’t know the cause of the power issue. Could be that the San’Shyuum (Prophets) were unable to fully access its systems due to not being Reclaimers, Mendicant Bias preventing them, or the crash. No one really knows at this time.
> >
> > To quote Rama, a user on Spacebattles whom examined the scene,
> >
> > “Many years after the Forerunners abandoned the galaxy, a shard of of Mendicant piloted a Keyship in an attempt to aid humanity, only to create a new body of water comparable to an enormous sea upon impact, causing the ship to be submerged within the original bedrock that would form High Charity that it later hefted into orbit upon reactivation.
> >
> > Assuming the impact crater was comparable to the Salton sea (the smallest inland sea on Earth - hardly what one would call enormous) the impact would have to excavate a complex transient crater approximately 25 km wide, with a volume of 8 cubic kilometers, requiring a 19 billion metric Keyship to impact the surface at 40-50 kilometers per second with a final kinetic energy of 4-5 TT; by comparison the K-T impact cratered an area 120 km wide, twenty five times the volume of our hypothetical Keyship impact, following an estimated 100 TT blast that ultimately led to extinction boundary event recorded 65 million years ago. The force of the Keyship impact would have been tremendous, blasting millions of tons of debris into orbit and wiping out countless native species in both the tremendous blast and the continent spanning firestorms created by reheating ejecta and other ignition sources, such as those created by the enormous bow wave of superheated, ionized gas in front of the ship as it passed through the atmosphere. However the survival of the impactor would mean that dust loading would only be accounted for in the finer particulate ejecta rather than the vaporization of the vessel, and whilst the devastation to life would be incalculable, organisms at just over 2000 km from the impact site would only experience brief yet violent earthquakes, 0.5-1 PSI pressure changes and only a light scattering of several microns of particulate matter; primitive San 'Shyuum on the opposing side of the planet may never notice the impact itself except for mild earthquakes and ballistic ejecta, with long term damage to the ozone layer, chemical and water injection from large bodies of vaporised land and the loading of the atmosphere due to fine particulate matter likely hampering agrarian settlements and other natural cycles.
> >
> > At ground zero itself the Keyship would have likely created a sea of slag, as the formation of a depression over four kilometers across would lead to a complex crater that slowly filled with liquidized materials that would have engulfed and cooled around the vessel, eventually allowing the formation of the sea (possibly due to the vast quantity of water aerosol generated around the impact site) that would partially submerge the vessel for tens of thousands of years. Even if we ignore the blast and look only at the structure of the ship itself, it would have to be enormously strong in order to simply survive the forces imposed upon the bulk and yet remain intact, requiring materials tens of thousands of times stronger than steel to not warp or shatter (let alone be vaporized itself). The precedent for such events of course exists, such as a segment of a Halo ring surviving an uncontrolled planetary reentry that left it intact, despite the impact inevitably scarring the planet to a degree as to be observable from mid orbital boundaries.”
> >
> > The Didact’s warship meanwhile kicked the UNSC fleet’s teeth in using only point defense weapons (that were vaporizing shielded UNSC warships in a single shot) and was not damaged by any of the ships or ODPs until the Infinity used its magic MACs (MACs are not beam weapons, they are mass accelerators so that scene makes no sense for depicting a projectile weapon) to punch a small hole large enough for Chief’s Broadsword through the thinnest part of the ship. That got repaired seconds later. We know for other ship weapons the Forerunners use antimatter beams, torsion drives which let them manipulate gravity to rip apart ships, hardlight weapons, regular beam weapons that have been calculated to be in the gigatons as the lowest possible showing, ion cannons that can buckle continental plates (basically teratons is the lowest possible requirement to do that based), and possibly planet busting weapons as they have a ship class called the Planet Breaker and random Forerunner civilians (albeit Miners) can and have blown up planets to settle disputes simply out of spite.
> >
> > So yes living Forerunners are too OP. Their ships and weapons (Prometheans can’t make full use of their weapons because they’re not living Forerunners) when used by them break the current setting.
>
> A big THANK YOU for such awesome explanation of Forerunners Strength,i must admit that you shocked me with those jaw-dropping facts.I just wonder how the Ancient Humanity was able to keep up with them in a fight?LOL

Aside from IIRC having weapons that they couldn’t adapt to (makes you wonder what those weapons were), we don’t know. Even then the Humans were doomed to lose from the beginning as they were smaller than the Forerunners, had less ships, less advance in technology, and were already exhausted by the Flood war. The most likely answer would be the Precursor artifacts on the Human worlds as they were indestructible by Forerunner standards. But until we get more details about the Ancient Humans, we will likely never know as we have next to nothing about them. We know more about the Precursors than we do about them.

> 2533274951753761;7:
> Why are you guys all telling they are too powerful?i didn’t read the Forerunner books so i dont know a lot about their combat strength, if it’s more explained there.Is it their weapons or armor that you think our Spartans couldn’t handle?I can imagine their Ships was their biggest strength as the Covenants Ships based on their technology gave Humans the biggest trouble in war.But if those Ships were destroyed by Flood and like just couple hundreds of Forerunners survived would they still be too powerful?

The Spartans can’t handle true Promethean Warrior Servants who are fully armed and outfitted for combat. Even Forerunner civilians personal armor designed for casual everyday wear is beyond Spartan Armor. Most of the weapons we’ve seen are tailored to fight the Flood are not operating under their true power or capabilities due to failsafes put in place when not being used by flesh-and-blood Foreunners. Their wepaons are severly underpowered in the hands of mechanical Prometheans or non-Forerunners.

Their more powerful weaponry operating at full power and capabilties were one-shotting ancient humans wearing armor that is presumably comparable to Foreunner combat armor. And their spacecraft are leagues of magnitudes beyond anything that humans or Covenant could handle fielding weapons capable of busting continents and planets or stars casually and capable of screwing up spacetime and gravity beyond recognition. Hell the way Foreunners did spacebattles involved higher-dimensional combat and screwery and speeds that modern humans or covenant species wouldn’t be able to even see properly or even make sense with thieir ship sensors much less fight or defend agianst them effectively.

Modern humans in halo and covenant species fighting full armed and battle ready flesh and blood Prometheans or Forerunners would be laughable.

Honestly,I’ll tell you what I think should hapoen regarding enemies and a fresh experience in Halo 6. The Prometheans are okay,I wasn’t a fan in Halo 4,but Halo 5 did make them more fun to fight. If they continue building on them in the direction they’ve been taking where you can slowly rip your enemy apart piece by piece,like the new knights and add to the others a bit more,I think they can be a more solid,if not believable enemy that feels more natural to fight and altogether more fun. Also,there is news regarding the upcoming novel that the group which formed the new Covenant called the Servants of The Abiding Truth are on shield world Trevelyan (formerly Onyx) and that trouble is brewing. Now that’s great,I enjoy that The Covenant are a really tough enemy to simply get rid of,but if you actually want to push things to the next level,let’s see an introduction to our friends from Halo Wars 2 in Halo 6: The Banished. Have the two meet and clash at some point similar to the way The Covenant and the Prometheans did in Halo 4 and then throw in a plot twist. They don’t have to end up being buddies,but what if some event just escalates the overall carnage and pushes the needle to the red? Like,say for instance,the Flood dropping in to throw their two cents into the mix? It’s not as if Cortana doesn’t already have the logic plague. The plugins are already here for something huge,they just need to be put to use…

There’s a question this raises: whether the Covenant returned to service the story, or to service the gameplay. I’d be willing to bet good money it’s the latter.

the forunners aren’t a bad enemy, there just portrayed in a bad way. the older halos had not only and epic feeling story, but alote of grit. in 4 and 5 the forunners are basically just robots, this is to appeal to younger audiences parents so they will buy the game. they should be more scary, more dark and -Yoinked!- up.

> 2533274846978810;18:
> There’s a question this raises: whether the Covenant returned to service the story, or to service the gameplay. I’d be willing to bet good money it’s the latter.

Yeah i agree 343 took over and in 2 years they made Halo 4,most of the time trying to make good design for 3 new Promethean enemies and so we got Covenant back imo.But still as you said in previous post Banished will most likely be new enemy in Halo 6 but they are at least different faction that has much more personality then the weak Covenant we got in 4 and 5.