We have to go back, The Golden Triangle

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Guns, Grenades, Melee.

The corner stones Halo was built on.

It is completely understandable as to why 343i tried to keep up with innovation with armor abilities, even if they are flawed in most of their design, and we have seen them in the last iteration with Reach.

Halo 4 in all accounts is a good game, but as many others have stated, it doesn’t seem like a good Halo game, multiplayer wise. Granted Halo has been making strides in attempting to balance itself out with the help of Bravo, which is much appreciated, Halo 4 has slowly been feeling a little bit more like a classic Halo experience. But it still has a ways to go in my opinion.

As you can tell this is strictly my opinion, but i do believe some people share this.

Let Halo go back to the basics, back to the golden triangle. Concentrate on the balance of the 2 systems that really drove halo to what it was, a fun, and competitive game, where you could have fun with a party of your friends in custom games, and also get a team of 4 to get into some highly competitive Team Slayer.

Now a bunch of you when you read the word competitive might be taking it a little too hard. It has been stated before but let me reiterate. You can play a competitive game casually…but you can’t play a casual game competitively. Just because a game is built to be competitively is not an immediate red flag stating, “This game will never cater to my casual needs!”

Halo 2 was definitely a competitive game, yet i found myself playing more casual custom games and having fun with friends that way more so then going into the Team Slayer playlist. Anyone remember Tremors? Original Zombies on Foundation? Cat and Mouse?

But we all know not everyone plays strictly custom games, i have played almost as many competitive games as custom games in Halo 2. Looking past the glitches and modders that littered the community in the playlist. And the reason i kept playing was because the multiplayer at the point was so simple and yet very fine tuned at that point. My friends and I kept playing staying up for hours in Team Slayer just hoping to get 1 rank up at the end of the night, trying to prove we could get better and keep improving upon every game we played.

When you get down to it, Competitive multiplayer in my opinion is what truly gets the player hooked on the game, and then afterwards they expand through playing with friends in customs and then joining other players in the team slayer or CTF playlist, or a clan back in Halo 2.

Expand Halo, but not by adding stuff like armor abilities that break the flow of the game completely. Add to the multiplayer without breaking the triangle.

(e.g. Space Battles land to space or just ship to ship invasion game-type like SW:BF 2, new game types, interactive enviroments/destrucatble environments looking at battlefield 4 for that one, after watching the levolution trailer, more weapons that serve unique purposes Or even weapons that have a secondary function like the silenced SMG from ODST, let it make a tad less damage, but able to stay off radar if the player is not moving.

But at its core, make a return to the classic Halo 2/Halo 3 competitive game-play that made it the king in the first place. Remember casual players, you will continue to have fun, if not way more fun then before i believe.

Thanks for reading! any other opinions and perspectives are welcomed! Should Halo continue on the path started from Reach? or try to go back to its beginnings?

2

I think they need to strip it back down to the basics and then build on it.

Halo 3 did an excellent job of building on the Halo 2 experience with equipment… conceptually at least. The balance was out of whack, but the idea was still true to the core.

Reach was making an effort to innovate on the Halo base. It came up short and was misguided in alot of ways imo, but at least it was built on top of the base experience.

Halo 4 started stripping out the base Halo experience and substituting something else in which created something unfamiliar and inferior (again imo). The challenge now will be in trying to find a balance of catering to two different crowds.

3

What about this?
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst221865_Halo-Xbox-One--How-to-Handle-Weapons-and-AAs.aspx

4

Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.

5

> Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.

Why would you prefer silver over gold? :stuck_out_tongue:

6

We don’t need to go back. 343i just needs to give equal attention.

Grenades have been horribly neglected due to being called overpowered. Melees have been made overpowered (but the lunge has finally been corrected). Guns have been made viable but are too easy or too frustrating to utilize.

The “golden triangle” is out of sync.

AAs have been balanced a lot better in Halo 4 but they are less versatile, as they are too combat oriented. The AAs in Reach, in contrast, were suitable for speedruns and tricks as well.

7

> > Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.
>
> Why would you prefer silver over gold? :stuck_out_tongue:

I prefer silver. It signifies that you’re not the best, but you’re pretty damn close. Also because alliteration

8

> Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.

Because almost all of the abilities work to undermine the triangle.

Jet pack: grenades and melee
promethean vision: melee
camo: what doesn’t it undermine?
hard light shield: guns (and butter)
sprint: melee and grenades
regen field: guns

Basically hologram and auto sentry are the only two armor abilities that don’t degrade your opponent’s tool box in some way… and hologram can be darn annoying in its own right.

9

> > > Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.
> >
> > Why would you prefer silver over gold? :stuck_out_tongue:
>
> I prefer silver. It signifies that you’re not the best, but you’re pretty damn close. Also because alliteration

A friend of mine told me it’s a good idea to call oneself average, because it means you can always improve. :stuck_out_tongue:

So yeah, silver is fine.

10

> > Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.
>
> Because almost all of the abilities work to undermine the triangle.
>
> Jet pack: grenades and melee
> promethean vision: melee
> camo: what doesn’t it undermine?
> hard light shield: guns (and butter)
> sprint: melee and grenades
> regen field: guns
>
> Basically hologram and auto sentry are the only two armor abilities that don’t degrade your opponent’s tool box in some way… and hologram can be darn annoying in its own right.

Jet Pack: i can see your point here, but its still my favourite ability
Promethean Vision: Doesnt help you if the enemy drops in outside your sight. Also doesnt make you invincible to melee
Active Camo: Grenades and gunfire flushes out camouflaged players. More grenades and gunfire and melees finish them off
Hardlight Shield: Flank. They cant move or turn quickly enough to counter someone running in and dumping an entire AR mag into their back
Sprint: Aim ahead of them. And you dont take into account the fact that some players will run right into melee range
Regen Field: Its not the Drop Shield. You can still hit them, and the precision weapons can dish out damage fast enough to prevent the field from doing anything.

11

> > > Why not the “Silver Square”? Guns, Grenades, Melee and Abilities.
> >
> > Because almost all of the abilities work to undermine the triangle.
> >
> > Jet pack: grenades and melee
> > promethean vision: melee
> > camo: what doesn’t it undermine?
> > hard light shield: guns (and butter)
> > sprint: melee and grenades
> > regen field: guns
> >
> > Basically hologram and auto sentry are the only two armor abilities that don’t degrade your opponent’s tool box in some way… and hologram can be darn annoying in its own right.
>
> Jet Pack: i can see your point here, but its still my favourite ability
> Promethean Vision: Doesnt help you if the enemy drops in outside your sight. Also doesnt make you invincible to melee
> Active Camo: Grenades and gunfire flushes out camouflaged players. More grenades and gunfire and melees finish them off
> Hardlight Shield: Flank. They cant move or turn quickly enough to counter someone running in and dumping an entire AR mag into their back
> Sprint: Aim ahead of them. And you dont take into account the fact that some players will run right into melee range
> Regen Field: Its not the Drop Shield. You can still hit them, and the precision weapons can dish out damage fast enough to prevent the field from doing anything.

I didn’t say negate. I said undermines. If you don’t see how promethean vision makes it difficult to force someone into melee range, then we have nothing to discuss.

Are you really going to try to defend that camo doesn’t undermine your opponent’s ability to locate and attack you? Or deny that hard light is a significant impediment to gun play at any significant range?

I didn’t say there are zero counters. I just said the entire point of almost every single armor ability is that it undermines some part of the triangle. You listed the options that are left to you without addressing all the ways that they bend the triangle to the point of breaking.

12

The major issue with REACH and Halo 4 is the following 2 AA.

Active Camo and Jump Pack.

These can easily be fixed for the next Halo if AA are to remain.

Active Camo to be a Powerup Only, and work as it did in Halo 3.

Jump Pack to work like sprint, when in use, you are unable to shoot.

These 2 AA break Halo maps, with these easy fixes, major issues with AA have been resolved.

13

> The major issue with REACH and Halo 4 is the following 2 AA.
>
> Active Camo and Jump Pack.
>
> These can easily be fixed for the next Halo if AA are to remain.
>
> Active Camo to be a Powerup Only, and work as it did in Halo 3.
>
> Jump Pack to work like sprint, when in use, you are unable to shoot.
>
> These 2 AA break Halo maps, with these easy fixes, major issues with AA have been resolved.

Jet pack i like the way it is, but it would be cool if it worked like an Astartes Jump Pack.
Active Camo should work more like the Arbiters Camo in Halo 2

14

343 “hired people who hated Halo” and “Halo 4 was too traditional” in early developments the quotes are even worse with context. There are many things the first three installments got right and these developers disagree. So far we have no idea what Bravo’s title means other than he’s the only hire from the community.

There will be nothing but Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot from here on out. The ignorance is settled. It isn’t that they can’t see the solution. It is that they can’t see the problem. It’s a culture thing.

I cherish the golden design like many of you. Good design costs just as much as anything else.

Thank you Spartan

15

My opinion as far as armor abilities are that, they are one of the big reasons that reach and 4 were not as popular as they could have been with the community.

It was already stated before so i will just reiterate.

The armor abilities do impede with the golden triangle.

Don’t get me wrong, i completely understand why armor abilities are here…they were created in order to try and shake things up, add new spice & life to the franchise, which of course sounds great on paper, but not as well executed.

Halo 2 was an amazing multiplayer because of its simplicity, we didn’t have armor abilities back in those days, yet it was the absolute king of shooters for a very long time. Halo 3 continued this and innovated with equipment, some would argue that equipments might of been just as bad as armor abilities, but there was one key feature that differentiate it. The equipments were pick ups and were a one time use, they were like power ups like the OS and Invisibility. The player could not use the equipment every so often as much as he/she liked as armor abilities are currently.

To the point of counters for the armor abilities. Yes there are counters to these abilities, i don’t think anyone will argue that point, its not that we can’t counter them. Its that they hindered what made Halo 2 & 3 great in the first place.

Also a reason the triangle is better then a square is because the triangle is the strongest of the shapes :slight_smile:

If you could try to innovate Halo in a new way, how? would you add new and improved armor abilities that maybe don’t hinder the triangle if possible? or would you go another route?

I’m just saying, and i know a lot of people are screaming for it, but we need to take this Sci-fi game and bring the fight to space! The little taste we got in reach was all we needed to understand we definitely want more space battles!

thoughts?

16

Definitely. Melee, grenades, and guns need to be the most important features of the game.
IMO, hit markers have to go… incoming grenade arrows have to go… armor abilities (at least as loadouts) have to go.
At its best, Halo is a really simple, competitive shooter set in a really awesome, cool setting. It doesn’t need to keep up with COD, Killzone, and Battlefield.
Add to it, mold it, make it fresh, but do not change the core dynamics that make it great. Unfortunately, Reach and Halo 4 really screwed up those dynamics. They’re good games, but they aren’t as good as older Halo games, and it’s because of reasons that can be avoided this time around.
Also, for the love of God, add a visible competitive ranking system this time. Yeah, I get it, people cheat/boost, but I don’t care. I’m competitive and I enjoy achieving little goals associated with competitive gaming. I couldn’t care less about EXP.

17

Bungie’s golden triangle is not important, it’s not a good guideline to follow. Yes, guns are important, as is the case with any shooter. And yes, grenades are a tool that can have a plethora of depth to them and are an important part of gameplay in Halo.

However, melee. It’s not important, at all. It makes the golden triangle a pointless cliche because it’s not a viable combat option most of the time. Melee combat is something you want to avoid because there is little depth to it, there is little you can do to influence the results of the encounter. The only situations where you should use melee are situations where it’s either a clear win to you (assassinations) or there are no other options, in other words, you are at point blank range. In any other case maintaining distance to the opponent is always a better option solely because those options offer more ways to outplay your opponent.

I don’t know if the golden triangle helped Bungie in their design of Halo, but I’ve personally always had a problem with the concept. As combat options, guns and grenades outweigh melee in a large majority of encounters and there is nothing that can be done about that because melee is fundamentally a close range ability and Halo is a mostly a long range oriented game.

What probably bugs me the most about the concept of the golden triangle is that it views combat from a very shallow perspective. It only concerns tools that inflict damage. It gives no thought to tools that you use to avoid damage. For that reason, I think a much more sensible golden triangle, if you really need to have one, is guns, grenades, movement. It actually says something about avoiding damage, and includes what I think is the single most fundamental aspect of Halo gameplay aside from aiming mechanics.

For solid gameplay in a shooter, all you need is solid movement and aiming mechanics. Even without any other weapons or abilities in the sandbox, it’s already fun and has a fine level of depth. Anything else you add to it is not mandatory for creating a shooter experience, but only works to further increase (or at least should increase) the depth of the game.

So, the golden triangle: cute, but not really a good tool to describe Halo.

18

The golden triangle philosophy drove changes in halo like the removal of duel wielding and the introduction of bleedthrough/ double melees…

Sprint is a feature that actually increases the involvement of melee in the golden triangle and to remove it would actually go against the golden triangle philosophy. As would reducing the grenade count off spawn and reducing melee back to a 3 hit kill. Things that classic Halo fans are asking for. I don’t think the triangle should be that big of a driving factor in Halos design philosophy.

19

> The golden triangle philosophy drove changes in halo like the removal of duel wielding and the introduction of bleedthrough/ double melees…

Double melee is a glitch, removal of bleedthrough wasn’t exactly the best idea.

Anyways, it was Bungie that came up with dual wielding and it was Bungie that removed dual wielding.

It was Bungie that left melees and grenades overpowered while giving only precision weapons emphasis.

343i have made their fair share of mistakes but they are slowly (and I mean, it’ll take a long, long time) taking Halo back to it’s roots.

20

That triangle is very arbitrary. If we were to treat it like the bible, we wouldn’t evolve the game. Now I’m not saying halo 4 is the best halo ever, but just because it doesn’t adhere to a flawed triangle, doesn’t mean it’s bad. I’d say the real golden triangle of halo is this.

Sandbox

Balance

Competitiveness

All three of these allow for evolution, but demand it be done right so that it fits the game. The sandbox aspect keeps the gameplay fresh each time a match is played and ensures we play however we wish. Balance demands that the sandbox be fair for everyone so as to ensure flow of combat and dynamic. Competitiveness gives the game depth and challenges for players to overcome. This makes them come back for more every time.

Halo 4 delivered on one and a half of these. Sandbox and balance. It has a great sandbox, but its balance is lacking in a large portion of the game, but not all of it. Lastly, it is not competitive. 343 wanted to make the game easier so more people would play, but humans naturally crave a challenge, so when you make a game less challenging, less people will play it. It’s well known that halo 4 was not as successful in keeping its player base, and I believe that because they didn’t follow this triangle, that’s why it is the way it is.