We deserve answers from the classic Halo fans

[EDIT]: The tone of my question is more friendly than you might think. In fact, it’s totally born out of guenine curiosity. Please do not feel offended by it.

Now here is the typical, simplified argument between a Halo fan who thinks sprint/spartan abilities/smartscope/thrusters are fun and a Halo fan who thinks they ruined the core of Halo. For the sake of this post, we’ll call them “Forever” and “Classic”.

Forever : “Halo 4 was unbalanced, but the gameplay mechanics it brought were good. Because they are more balanced in Halo 5, I’m am really looking forward to it.”
Classic : “You’re wrong. Even with the adjustments in Halo 5 (equal starts, no loadouts, no shields while sprinting), it still won’t feel like Halo. Because these additions fundamentally changed the franchise.”
Forever : “But Halo needs to evolve. If we played the same game over and over, we’d be bored.”
Classic: “Halo has to evolve, yes, but not by copying COD mechanics. Halo 3 remains the most successful Halo to date and it had very similar gameplay to Halo 2.”
Forever : “How ? How could Halo evolve without the mechanics that have been in place/tweaked since Reach and still feel like what you call the core of Halo ?”

This. I have never, ever, seen a “classic” fan specifically state how he would have made the franchise evolve. Classic fans say they want more than Halo 2/3 with better graphics. They want more than Halo 2.5/3.5. But I swear I have never seen any of those fans detail how the gameplay of Halo could have evolved “correctly”. And I’ve read a lot of threads about this. I cannot imagine how the Halo franchise could have changed after Halo 3 and still satisfy the classic fans who wanted a combination of evolution and conservatism. Classic Halo fans, how would you have made Halo after Halo 3 ? I want serious, concrete examples. Don’t tell me “it’s 343i’s job to think about that”. Some of you have been stating that “true” Halo is dead for long enough that the “forever” community deserves answers.

In line with the question in the Subject, I’m more curious how a graphic update amounts to a whole 0.5 increase in sequelness while actual gameplay which is the meat on the bone amounts to the same increase, which to me sounds a lot more important.

It’s also quite furiating seeing you “forever” types go on about how Halo needs to evolve and then imply this somehow is the logical direction and that somehow each iteration’s changes is the next step as if there was some check list which features to implement. If that was the case, who makes the list? Where can I find it? What features will we see in Halo 6?

Furthermore, Silent once argued against this same query, that whenever something like this is asked of a classic fan, the suggestions are either ignored or the suggestion does not fit the mold in which the one asking for suggestions require it to fit in, because “it’s still the same”. Which brings me to the next point, how can something change, yet still remain the same? Quantum physics? It’s always said CoD never changes despite numerous changes to gameplay, but Halo somehow remains Halo despite doing basically similar changes. What? So, whenever this question in the IP is asked, any answer is not good enough unless it fits what the asker wants to hear.

Then lastly, I fail to see why Halo needs to “change” at the rate it has done and in the direction it is going when the original trilogy was quite fine as it was, and numerous popular game francgises are staying popular while not departing whole genres away from their original between iterations.

> 2533274795123910;2:
> In line with the question in the Subject, I’m more curious how a graphic update amounts to a whole 0.5 increase in sequelness while actual gameplay which is the meat on the bone amounts to the same increase, which to me sounds a lot more important.
>
> It’s also quite furiating seeing you “forever” types go on about how Halo needs to evolve and then imply this somehow is the logical direction and that somehow each iteration’s changes is the next step as if there was some check list which features to implement. If that was the case, who makes the list? Where can I find it? What features will we see in Halo 6?
>
> Furthermore, Silent once argued against this same query, that whenever something like this is asked of a classic fan, the suggestions are either ignored or the suggestion does not fit the mold in which the one asking for suggestions require it to fit in, because “it’s still the same”. Which brings me to the next point, how can something change, yet still remain the same? Quantum physics? It’s always said CoD never changes despite numerous changes to gameplay, but Halo somehow remains Halo despite doing basically similar changes. What? So, whenever this question in the IP is asked, any answer is not good enough unless it fits what the asker wants to hear.
>
> Then lastly, I fail to see why Halo needs to “change” at the rate it has done and in the direction it is going when the original trilogy was quite fine as it was, and numerous popular game francgises are staying popular while not departing whole genres away from their original between iterations.

IMO Halo needed to change. The proof for that (even though it’s my personal proof) is that the classic Halos from the MCC feel dated to me. Some games barely change and yet remain successful. Counter Strike is the most notable example of this I can think of. But can we compare a hard-core game with no campain worth mentionning with a game that is important both as a single-player and a multi-player title ? I don’t think so.

Also you mentionned that “suggestions” have been made for the Halos after Halo 3 to evolve whilst keeping the core of Halo, but that they were ignored. As I said at the beginning of this thread, I have never had the chance to read those. Please provide links to them. I am honnestly curious to read them. I am not here to rant at classic Halo fans. I want to understand them and the vision they had for the Halo franchise after Halo 3.

When I play the first three Halos in the MCC, I feel nostalgic. But would I buy a game like those in 2015 ? Absolutely not. Crouch-jumping was fun, but now I want to clamber. Spawn-killing was fun with a sniper, but I’m glad I can use sprint and thrusters to escape such a fate in an open area. I am still enjoying the classic Halos, but they feel dated to me. The fact that a remastered Halo 2 still feels like a game from another era shows that graphical updates aren’t enough to justify a sequel to classic games.

> 2533274795123910;2:
> In line with the question in the Subject, I’m more curious how a graphic update amounts to a whole 0.5 increase in sequelness while actual gameplay which is the meat on the bone amounts to the same increase, which to me sounds a lot more important.
>
> It’s also quite furiating seeing you “forever” types go on about how Halo needs to evolve and then imply this somehow is the logical direction and that somehow each iteration’s changes is the next step as if there was some check list which features to implement. If that was the case, who makes the list? Where can I find it? What features will we see in Halo 6?
>
> Furthermore, Silent once argued against this same query, that whenever something like this is asked of a classic fan, the suggestions are either ignored or the suggestion does not fit the mold in which the one asking for suggestions require it to fit in, because “it’s still the same”. Which brings me to the next point, how can something change, yet still remain the same? Quantum physics? It’s always said CoD never changes despite numerous changes to gameplay, but Halo somehow remains Halo despite doing basically similar changes. What? So, whenever this question in the IP is asked, any answer is not good enough unless it fits what the asker wants to hear.
>
> Then lastly, I fail to see why Halo needs to “change” at the rate it has done and in the direction it is going when the original trilogy was quite fine as it was, and numerous popular game francgises are staying popular while not departing whole genres away from their original between iterations.

Pretty much this the OP just is too blind to see it. Although innovation wise for 343i they are kinda slow.

> 2533274925960280;4:
> > 2533274795123910;2:
> > In line with the question in the Subject, I’m more curious how a graphic update amounts to a whole 0.5 increase in sequelness while actual gameplay which is the meat on the bone amounts to the same increase, which to me sounds a lot more important.
> >
> > It’s also quite furiating seeing you “forever” types go on about how Halo needs to evolve and then imply this somehow is the logical direction and that somehow each iteration’s changes is the next step as if there was some check list which features to implement. If that was the case, who makes the list? Where can I find it? What features will we see in Halo 6?
> >
> > Furthermore, Silent once argued against this same query, that whenever something like this is asked of a classic fan, the suggestions are either ignored or the suggestion does not fit the mold in which the one asking for suggestions require it to fit in, because “it’s still the same”. Which brings me to the next point, how can something change, yet still remain the same? Quantum physics? It’s always said CoD never changes despite numerous changes to gameplay, but Halo somehow remains Halo despite doing basically similar changes. What? So, whenever this question in the IP is asked, any answer is not good enough unless it fits what the asker wants to hear.
> >
> > Then lastly, I fail to see why Halo needs to “change” at the rate it has done and in the direction it is going when the original trilogy was quite fine as it was, and numerous popular game francgises are staying popular while not departing whole genres away from their original between iterations.
>
>
> Pretty much this the OP just is too blind to see it. Although innovation wise for 343i they are kinda slow.

I recognized that I was blind before you said it. That is why I created this thread: to gather responses from the classic fans. I want to understand what you guys had in mind when you envisioned the Halo after Halo 3. So far, neither Nasqer or you have provided such elements of a response. As a side note sorry if I’m a bit slow to understand some parts of what you say. I am almost perfectly bilingual, but my primary language is French.

Imo, thrusters are a great addition to the Halo sandbox. But some people associate thruster movement with Cod AW in their minds, and are repulsed by the idea that anything remotely Cod-related would so much as breath on Halo.

Heck, someone in the youtube comments said: because 343i wanted to Codify Halo for the masses, they added the revive system for campaign.

Sometimes people can be rather irrational about the subject.

I think 343i is trying to move Halo forward with a bigger campaign (with new characters and squad mechanics), new gamemodes (Warzone, Breakout) and more ways to control your spartan with the new abilities. We just have to wait and find out if it all works well.

Campaign:
-If a level assigns us a squad of marines, then let us issue orders to those marines (not saying that all levels should be squad based, but for the ones that are).
-Once someone beats the Campaign, let them play through it as their own Spartan.
-Once someone beats the Campaign, let them customize their starting loadout.
-The ability to backpack and drop a weapon for later use.
-Boss Fights that don’t completely suck. Boarding Scarabs was pretty fun, but Tartarus was a chore while Guilty Spark was anticlimatic.

Multiplayer
-Halo Custom Edition had gigantic maps where you would fight with Pelicans, Jets, etc. It wasn’t the best executed but still pretty fun. An official gametype made by the developers could do it even better. Warzone kind of pales in comparison, it’s just a slightly bigger BTB with MOBA elements. I prefer the former but even the latter brings something new to the table.
-Gametypes like Richochet and Extraction I again don’t have any problem with.
-Some of the concepts added since Halo 3 aren’t even terrible, just executed poorly. There’s a ton of new toys I could suggest, but it depends on which direction I want to take the game, and there are many different directions. A game’s “evolution” isn’t limited to a single path. Halo 3, Halo 2 Anniversary, and Halo Reach MLG could all be considered “classic” even though they have significantly different sandboxes and mechanics.
-Spawn Zones instead of Spawn Points. Predicting spawns would still be important but you can’t just aim at an exact spot and snipe someone the moment they spawn.
-I think there are ways to incorporate things similar to loadouts without ruining the entire arena aspect of the game. As a very quick and poorly thought out example just to help explain what I mean, imagine if in Halo 4 everyone spawned the same but they could customize the choices in their Ordnance.

Miscellaneous
-Customizable HUD’s
-Customizable Menus and Backgrounds (Should see some of the content the Community made before Halo 4 came out…)
-Hitmarkers, Hitsounds
-Weapon Skins
-Expand upon Forge (or just replace it)
-Mod Support
-Clans

> 2533274819302824;7:
> Campaign:
> -If a level assigns us a squad of marines, then let us issue orders to those marines (not saying that all levels should be squad based, but for the ones that are).
> -Once someone beats the Campaign, let them play through it as their own Spartan.
> -Once someone beats the Campaign, let them customize their starting loadout.
> -The ability to backpack and drop a weapon for later use.
> -Boss Fights that don’t completely suck. Boarding Scarabs was pretty fun, but Tartarus was a chore while Guilty Spark was anticlimatic.
>
> Multiplayer
> -Halo Custom Edition had gigantic maps where you would fight with Pelicans, Jets, etc. It wasn’t the best executed but still pretty fun. An official gametype made by the developers could do it even better. Warzone kind of pales in comparison, it’s just a slightly bigger BTB with MOBA elements. I prefer the former but even the latter brings something new to the table.
> -Gametypes like Richochet and Extraction I again don’t have any problem with.
> -Some of the concepts added since Halo 3 aren’t even terrible, just executed poorly. There’s a ton of new toys I could suggest, but it depends on which direction I want to take the game, and there are many different directions. A game’s “evolution” isn’t limited to a single path. Halo 3, Halo 2 Anniversary, and Halo Reach MLG could all be considered “classic” even though they have significantly different sandboxes and mechanics.
>
> Miscellaneous
> -Customizable HUD’s
> -Customizable Menus and Backgrounds (Should see some of the content the Community made before Halo 4 came out…)
> -Hitmarkers, Hitsounds
> -Weapon Skins
> -Expand upon Forge (or just replace it)
> -Mod Support
> -Clans

I would play that if it was executed correctly great ideas :slight_smile:

So what type am I, been playing sense Halo CE on both the Xbox and PC and been there for the launch of every halo game.

But I felt Halo Reach was going the right direction and Halo 5 is the pinicle of the halo franchise. Combining the Classic Halos and yet also the direction Bungie was taking Halo after Halo 3.

> 2533274817907732;5:
> > 2533274925960280;4:
> > > 2533274795123910;2:
> > > In line with the question in the Subject, I’m more curious how a graphic update amounts to a whole 0.5 increase in sequelness while actual gameplay which is the meat on the bone amounts to the same increase, which to me sounds a lot more important.
> > >
> > > It’s also quite furiating seeing you “forever” types go on about how Halo needs to evolve and then imply this somehow is the logical direction and that somehow each iteration’s changes is the next step as if there was some check list which features to implement. If that was the case, who makes the list? Where can I find it? What features will we see in Halo 6?
> > >
> > > Furthermore, Silent once argued against this same query, that whenever something like this is asked of a classic fan, the suggestions are either ignored or the suggestion does not fit the mold in which the one asking for suggestions require it to fit in, because “it’s still the same”. Which brings me to the next point, how can something change, yet still remain the same? Quantum physics? It’s always said CoD never changes despite numerous changes to gameplay, but Halo somehow remains Halo despite doing basically similar changes. What? So, whenever this question in the IP is asked, any answer is not good enough unless it fits what the asker wants to hear.
> > >
> > > Then lastly, I fail to see why Halo needs to “change” at the rate it has done and in the direction it is going when the original trilogy was quite fine as it was, and numerous popular game francgises are staying popular while not departing whole genres away from their original between iterations.
> >
> >
> > Pretty much this the OP just is too blind to see it. Although innovation wise for 343i they are kinda slow.
>
>
> I recognized that I was blind before you said it. That is why I created this thread: to gather responses from the classic fans. I want to understand what you guys had in mind when you envisioned the Halo after Halo 3. So far, neither Nasqer or you have provided such elements of a response. As a side note sorry if I’m a bit slow to understand some parts of what you say. I am almost perfectly bilingual, but my primary language is French.

I never envisioned anything Halo 3 was supposed to be the last game of the main Halo trilogy. Didn’t bother to think what they would improve upon if they had other plans. When Reach came out I didn’t mind the gameplay yes the sprint button got annoying as well as any aa. Although if I wanted a sequel to Halo instead of sprint I would of wanted a rolling mechanic not like reach, a dodge mechanic not like thrusters in Halo 4, clamber type of mechanic jumping over cover, hide behind walls/cover and take a peek like how Battlefield has done.

Other than that more customization that included you customizing your own spartan, elite and flood for game types. More weapons with unique flood weapons, more types air/ground vehicles, boats being included into maps. A better forge world that had jungle, snow, caverns, volcano, floating islands etc.

16 player theater with the ability to make playlists of your favorite clips so you can watch multiple clips without returning to the theater menu. More options for the leader of a theater lobby like locking the camera for everyone or allowing free cam for everyone.

Also, I don’t think we should ditch loadouts quite yet. They could work great in objective gametypes IMO. In particular I love how loadouts were balanced and tiered in Invasion, I could choose the drop shield loadout and place it over the core to defend it while it resets or switch to Grenadier and take care of that pesky wraith or banshee that’s been bothering me.

We’re not developers, yet we waste our time into thinking how great Halo can be again. Whose fault is that?

I feel like saying you “deserve” answers, when we’ve had thread asking for “good change” and so on and we’ve constantly repeated things we like that don’t include sprint and clamber.

Thrusters (yeah, less people have problem with thrusters, and they can be balanced and properly integrated with Halo’s gameplay without changing it. We’ve seen them since Reach, just like sprint, except they work. It’s actually Sprint and Clamber that cause the most interference with gameplay).

Warzone (but larger, AI optional. While people have been asking for AI for a while, the larger battles with pelicans and scarabs would be more impressive and give people a far more different experience).

Pick up-able, reusable equipment. (AAs and SAs have always had one major flaw. You have them off spawn. If they acted like power weapons and vehicles, where you have to pick them up and risk losing them to the other team upon death they would be far more balanced and Halo friendly).

Split Screen and LAN (I know, broken record, but Halo Night is a thing, a very fun family and friend friendly marketable selling point. Use it and offer that experience that other games Destiny, cough cough just cant match).

Clans (We loved clans before, we love clans now, we are missing an opportunity to create smaller communities that serve the larger community. Clans don’t have to be competitive players. They could be clans of forgers, film and content makers, campaigners, anything. It would help the community, and if Halo needs anything right now it’s community focused features).

Forge map testing playlists (another community focused playlist. One that could extend the life of the game through new free maps. This playlist would be invaluable when it comes to professional and community made maps and the testing and rating of said maps).

Sidearm weapon slot (I get that you want every weapon to be useful, but that doesn’t mean every weapon needs to kill as fast as a BR. SMGs and pistols were always a touchy subject when it comes to what role they should play. Why not have them as back up weapons. To finish a weak shielded player, or when you find yourself low on ammo. Finding plasma pistols in a sidearm spot would also balance that weapon tremendously. It’s terribly weak on its own, the only way to use it is through a noob combo, making the weapon useless to average players, but as a backup vehicle stopper would make it worth while.

I’m sure there are more, there always are. Give me 3 years, hundreds of employees and millions to spend on it I’m sure I could come up with a lot more. Can the classic fans get what they deserve also? To be listened to? I mean you don’t have to like it or agree. Just understand there are other directions and we’ve actually been very vocal about them for years.

Well, firstly the reason people say its 343i’s job is because it is. They want people to blow their minds but most fans don’t know how; If they knew what they wanted, it wouldn’t blow their minds now would it? Consumers consume, they don’t design.

But okay, here goes;

I want a game that builds on the open world first flirted with in ODST, however instead of a small little area that’s fenced off where you simply just go to each objective in order, I want a massive sprawling campaign. I want a game that has me and my three friends searching the glassed ruins of a destroyed human colony for sensitive ONI data that cant be allowed to fall into the hands of the Innies or the Covenant, where all we have is Intel telling us where it might be and where the enemy might be rather than saying “go here, go there.”
I want to be sneaking through the sewer systems to place a nuclear bomb to destroy all the covenant above like in the Fall of Reach, only I don’t want that to be a mission; I want me and my friends to be able to say “We have a tactical nuke, that’s a covenant stronghold that Yoinking! out units and making out mission hell… Lets blown it to kingdom come.” and then we can go blow it up to make our job easier.

Does anyone remember the Storm in Halo 3, when you had that awesome warehouse fight? Well, why cant I pull rank on these marines, order fireteam B to take BR’s and snipers and hang back while me and fireteam A blast our way through with shotguns?

I want to be able to dismember people with my energy sword, I want that crate I just smashed with a gravity hammer to look like I just smashed it with a -Yoinking!- gravity hammer. I want to jump onto that hunter and punch its lights out, I want to rip off a promethean knights arm and start disintegrating ranks of covenant with it. If 343i is set on making me feel like a Spartan, then let me break down some of the doors and walls in order to flank enemy positions, let me pick up that crate and toss it at those three grunts who scream as it smashes them in the faces and kills them.

How about instead of changing the multiplayer gameplay, we add new game modes instead? Lets have space battles where we have to blow up the enemy ship, only instead of just fighting from the outside let us board it and fight our way across the entire ship, blowing up systems as we go. Imagine how that could go? Me and my buddies are making it down one of the corridors dragging a tactical nuke behind us, the enemy team thinks “-Yoink- no” and opens up an airlock, sucking my mates out into space but I am still alive and I slam the airlock shut by overriding the command and have to fight my way through the ship carrying a bomb, but then just as I’m about to make it to the ships core I get betrayed because some guy who didn’t listen to the plan just fired all his rockets at the enemy ship and caused a hull breach which sucked me out into space and threw me into the atmosphere of the nearby planet where I get burnt up and die. And then my team is yelling at each other while the enemy team is laughing its -Yoink- off. How about we one up the invasion and warzone gamemode, where instead of just being a single isolated game its an ongoing war that lasts a week; At the beginning of the week we decide whether we’re going to be fighting for the UNSC or the Covenant or whatever and we have to fight for control of sections of the planet, and whoever wins the most matches in one of these sectors gets control of the sector, and then the covenant can slaughter civvies by attacking the planets cities while the UNSC have to try and evac them, and if the covenant succeed in slaughtering the civilians yhry can place down a beacon which sends a signal to the ships in orbit and they glass the city which reduces the UNSC morale which causes marine NPC’s to panic more often and retreat, but if the UNSC are winning they can start taking the fight to space and tearing apart covenant ships while the covies have to try and stop the Spartan strike teams from placing bombs on their ships and if the humans win it will reduce the covenant moral meter and cause their NPC’s to -Yoink- themselves because the invasion looks like its going to hell and so they run off more often in battle.

Why don’t we have a gamemode on the other end of the spectrum that’s asymmetric, where four players are Spartans and have to fight their way to an objective while the other play is a Covenant general or a forerunner Monitor and has to command their forces to try and stop them, setting up ambushes and traps, destroying bridges and ordering the forces to set up turrets in an attempt to stop them?

I want a map where the entire fight is done by jumping between the wreckages in the aftermath of a space battle, having to be careful not to fall off and die while also killing your opponents and controlling the power weapons.

Why not allow us to make the terrain in a map editor before we go down in editor mode and start forging the traditional style. And give us absolutely everything, unleash the game and let players go mad. Let us place down drivable scarabs on a battlefield, let us choose what the skybox is, let us make it so a pelican can fly in and drop off a supply of weapons every five minutes.

Why not make it so that in warzone taking points doesn’t just give you points? Remember invasion slayer? Why not do something similar where the bases basically act as supply points. Make it so we can only spawn light vehicles unless my team takes the garage then every few minutes or so a tank or a mantis will be built. Then the enemy team will be like “-Yoink-, we have to take back the garage before it gives them a scorpion!” Or if we took the armoury it would start generating power weapons every few minutes, and if we took like a depot we would gain req faster. And on one map, there’s be like a communications tower we could take, and every five minutes the team who owned it could get a mac targeting beam and call down death from above. On another there’d be a forerunner foundry in the center, and the team that controlled it would get assistance from NPC sentinels. Doesn’t that sound better than just “take zones to get points”? We have that already, its called territories; Warzone is basically territories with more players, NPC’s and the REQ system; a good start for a casual gamemode but why stop there? Warzone is clearly meant to be a casual experience where you just jump in and have fun so double down on it, make it a crazy fun experience where everything has a purpose and holding one point can be the difference between dominating the enemy team and losing, make it so that it is hectic warfare on all fronts by making players actually care about the objectives. Make it so we can do awesome things by controlling the correct points. Doesn’t that sound a lot better than what they’re giving us now, which is a watered down battlefield/territories hybrid with a few npcs thrown in and a points to equipment system?

Hell, why not go all out and make it so if my team has enough req and points, we are able to hire some of the bosses out as mercenaries if we’re willing to pay their fees, and them they and their forces will assist us and charge the enemy controlled points on the map. If we have the REQ, let us request a team of ODST’s drop into their base and then we launch a coordinated assault at the same time, then while we deal with the enemy team the ODST’s start killing the enemy marines so we can take the base. Let us request a pelican drop off marines at a location to fortify it so we can have them hold chokepoints; Sure they’d likely get their -Yoinks!- handed to them, but we’d be able to tell because some guy would be like “This is sergeant Kowalski, we’re taking fi-argh!” and then Palmer or Laskey or someone comes on the radio and is like “We just lost contact with Platoon Gamma near the waterfall, someone check on that.”
What if midway through battle Palmer came on the comms and was like “All units, enemy HVT sighted in this area. Take him down!” And then if you killed the high level NPC which spawned before he could escape the enemy would lose access to some of the higher end REQ stuff for a short time, meaning that the enemy team would have to escort him to the evac point or risk getting stomped. Or if you were doing particularly good, Palmer came on comms and told you that the enemy team was sending out for you and the enemy team would get told around about where you were but wouldnt get told exactly where, and Palmer would tell them that you were a High Value Target and it was Open Season on your -Yoink-. If you got killed it would count for 10 points instead of 1, but if you managed to last for the entire timespan you get the points instead.

The point I’ve been trying to make in these two posts is that the fundamental mechanics don’t need the massive overhaul they’re getting. Instead we just need some creativity from 343i in terms of game.odes and we need them to up the ante with forge and the community features such as giving us a damn file browser again. Halo 3 was kept alive by its customs community. As a competitive player and a guy who regularly watches Halo eSports, I’m glad of their focus on competitive gameplay and the eSports scene, but Halo was big because… Well, what are customs in COd or Battlefield? Could you make your own maps? Could you make people run at two mph but be invincible others run at 100mph but could be killed by a paper plane? No, you couldn’t and really you still cant. Halo was big because of its community and to make it really, really big again three things need to happen:

A) Forge needs to become even more amazing
B) Filebrowser needs to make a return and 343i needs to regularly feature community content on the Halo channel and on waypoint
C) Halo needs to stop thinking that altering its original formula will make it big again, because it wont. Titanfall had amazing gameplay but that game is a graveyard now because it didn’t have the community Halo had back in the day. Hell, it didn’t even have private lobbies on launch. Halo’s gameplay before was the definition of simple mechanics complex gameplay, it was fun, it was addicting and having played the Halo 5 beta I can say that it too was fun but will it have the community that kept Halo 3 alive? What do the new mechanics add, really? The only one that is really a good addition to the Halo formula as far as I can see is thrusters.

> 2533274817907732;3:
> > 2533274795123910;2:
> > In line with the question in the Subject, I’m more curious how a graphic update amounts to a whole 0.5 increase in sequelness while actual gameplay which is the meat on the bone amounts to the same increase, which to me sounds a lot more important.
> >
> > It’s also quite furiating seeing you “forever” types go on about how Halo needs to evolve and then imply this somehow is the logical direction and that somehow each iteration’s changes is the next step as if there was some check list which features to implement. If that was the case, who makes the list? Where can I find it? What features will we see in Halo 6?
> >
> > Furthermore, Silent once argued against this same query, that whenever something like this is asked of a classic fan, the suggestions are either ignored or the suggestion does not fit the mold in which the one asking for suggestions require it to fit in, because “it’s still the same”. Which brings me to the next point, how can something change, yet still remain the same? Quantum physics? It’s always said CoD never changes despite numerous changes to gameplay, but Halo somehow remains Halo despite doing basically similar changes. What? So, whenever this question in the IP is asked, any answer is not good enough unless it fits what the asker wants to hear.
> >
> > Then lastly, I fail to see why Halo needs to “change” at the rate it has done and in the direction it is going when the original trilogy was quite fine as it was, and numerous popular game francgises are staying popular while not departing whole genres away from their original between iterations.
>
>
> IMO Halo needed to change. The proof for that (even though it’s my personal proof) is that the classic Halos from the MCC feel dated to me. Some games barely change and yet remain successful. Counter Strike is the most notable example of this I can think of. But can we compare a hard-core game with no campain worth mentionning with a game that is important both as a single-player and a multi-player title ? I don’t think so.
>
> Also you mentionned that “suggestions” have been made for the Halos after Halo 3 to evolve whilst keeping the core of Halo, but that they were ignored. As I said at the beginning of this thread, I have never had the chance to read those. Please provide links to them. I am honnestly curious to read them. I am not here to rant at classic Halo fans. I want to understand them and the vision they had for the Halo franchise after Halo 3.
>
> When I play the first three Halos in the MCC, I feel nostalgic. But would I buy a game like those in 2015 ? Absolutely not. Crouch-jumping was fun, but now I want to clamber. Spawn-killing was fun with a sniper, but I’m glad I can use sprint and thrusters to escape such a fate in an open area. I am still enjoying the classic Halos, but they feel dated to me. The fact that a remastered Halo 2 still feels like a game from another era shows that graphical updates aren’t enough to justify a sequel to classic games.

And what makes a game feel dated? Comparisons to other games? Lack of content in the long run? What?

So we’re going to limit the selection of popular yet non-changing games in the long run based on what kind of content they have rather than what kind of gameplay they use over a long period of time? Aren’t we talking gameplay? What “type” of game also feels redundant, “hardcore” or not.

Suggestions on what to do has been raining in since Halo CE. This forum is also quite full of them if you know what to search for.

Example

Evolving is fine, becoming something completely else is all together different
Lets look at H4 as a good example here, Started off very strong…sold what was it 3.1 million copies? on launch day alone ← this to me proves people still want halo
Multiplayer started strong (relatively speaking), 450,000 players for the first couple of weeks ← this to me proves people still want halo
three months into the games life span 80% of the population leaves ← this to me proves that the vast majority (80%) of people did not enjoy the “evolved halo”
less than 1 year after launch there was less than 20,000 people playing world wide <-again showing that the changes were not well received

Lets be honest here, the best thing 343 has done with halo since they took over is either fix things they broke or put things back in that they took out

took out the red X
added the red x back
Made the BR a 5sk
turned it back to to a 4sk
removed loadouts
removed ordinance
took out descope, added flinch
took out flinch added descope
took out starting AAs
removed perks
removed theater
added JiP
Removed JiP
They completely neutered custom games
They completely butchered the H4 forge
They killed Machinima

I’m sure there is more that I can’t think of off the top of my head (please anyone feel free) And this isn’t even going into the debacle that was the MCC

Should games evolve? for sure evolution is important for things to survive, but the current numbers show that the majority of halo fans don’t like the direction halo is going
Maybe, hopefully H5 will be different and we will see the multiplayer thrive and go back to the days of H3 when we had a million players playing online for three years straight…Three years H3 remained #1 in XBLs most played, hell I would even settle for reach which had 150,000 players until H4 came out, but I;'m ot going to hold my breath

Kind of a pointless question if you ask me. You’d have to define what change is and isn’t. What halo is and isn’t. And what is considered enough change or not enough change. From my experience when people have listed changes the people respond to their recommendations as not changing enough or too similar. A lot of back round improvements etc.

From where i’m standing I’ve enjoy the new direction. Halo is under a new development company. So their vision of what halo is is different. I think it’s rather pointless to argue what is or is not halo because what halo means to someone else might not mean the same thing to you. For me it’s still halo if it exists in the universe I know. As far as multiplayer goes it’s really flexible for me. People should be looking at halo’s mechanics in each new game on an individual basis and not a series. Meaning if sprint works as intended in halo 5 then sprint it self is fine. Then the next step would be to see if sprint causes any unintended bugs or exploits on a map. And so on.

A little off topic I think it’s flat out wrong for people to point to cod as a series that “stays the same and is still successful” because it’s fundamentally changed over the last couple of installments. The reason people state this is because the kill times stay nearly the same. Now halo’s have stayed nearly the same as well. yet people slam halo for changing constantly. It’s frankly a tired argument and it needs to go away.

I was going to give a traditional rebuttal or something for in no better terms, calling purists a collective of unproductive hicks, but you have merit; it’s been quite some time since the ‘classics’ said a few words on where Halo should go. Here are your answers:

  • Make every character class you can stomach playable in customs. I want to see what modes the community builds.
  • Much like the player traits menu, the option to change vehicle speed/health/physics in custom games options.
  • Repeat the above with weapons and grenades.
  • Do something worthwhile with Forge. No specifics needed atm, it just needs to be better. That, or go the way of Far Cry’s map editor.
  • Incentivize beating a Halo game 100%. Let us unlock cool crap.*

*This includes new armors, concept arts, character model showcases, new playable characters in custom lobbies, (I dunno, stuff good games do…)

Maybe if you beat the Campaign LASO it adds the same options menu from custom games to Campaign. Running around with 300% speed and whatnot, changing to whatever Spartan you want, whether it’s a member of Blue Team or Osiris, or just your own Spartan, like Ramir said.

All the above things can be done without creating a single texture, model, or sound. Without hiring a single voice actor, artist, or musician. This is all from taking existing assets and giving them some good ole’ fashioned TLC, that’s all… There’s a reason people get a kick out of watching Gamecheat make more Halo out of… Halo, just by altering stuff already on the disc…

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> Campaign:
> […]
> Multiplayer
> […]
> Miscellaneous
> […]

That’s a nice vision, thanks for sharing !

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> We’re not developers, yet we waste our time into thinking how great Halo can be again. Whose fault is that?

I know that. I mentionned it in my OP. But taking a look back at the post Halo 3 after all these years, I was pretty sure the classic community had an idea of what the would have wanted at that time.

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> I feel like saying you “deserve” answers, when we’ve had thread asking for “good change” and so on and we’ve constantly repeated things we like that don’t include sprint and clamber.
> […]
> Pick up-able, reusable equipment. (AAs and SAs have always had one major flaw. You have them off spawn. If they acted like power weapons and vehicles, where you have to pick them up and risk losing them to the other team upon death they would be far more balanced and Halo friendly).

“Deserve answers” is an expression I think is a bit boastful, but like many others I had to spice up the title of my thread so it can have attention from the community. I’ve never done this before but for this thread specifically I really wanted to knoe what the others had to say.

That pick up idea for powers-ups of yours stood out of the lot for me, it’s really great and makes the game more competitive like you said. I love it !

> 2533274831677669;14:
> […]
> I want to be sneaking through the sewer systems to place a nuclear bomb to destroy all the covenant above like in the Fall of Reach, only I don’t want that to be a mission; I want me and my friends to be able to say “We have a tactical nuke, that’s a covenant stronghold that Yoinking! out units and making out mission hell… Lets blown it to kingdom come.” and then we can go blow it up to make our job easier.
> […]
> How about instead of changing the multiplayer gameplay, we add new game modes instead? Lets have space battles where we have to blow up the enemy ship, only instead of just fighting from the outside let us board it and fight our way across the entire ship, blowing up systems as we go.

I’ve always wanted better sneaking mechanics too ! Not sure I’d want space battles though. Vehicules are an essential part of Halo but an exclusively vehicule mode ? Not sure. Thanks for sharing your ideas !

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> > > 2533274795123910;2:
> > > […]
>
>
> And what makes a game feel dated? Comparisons to other games? Lack of content in the long run? What?
>
> So we’re going to limit the selection of popular yet non-changing games in the long run based on what kind of content they have rather than what kind of gameplay they use over a long period of time? Aren’t we talking gameplay? What “type” of game also feels redundant, “hardcore” or not.
>
> Suggestions on what to do has been raining in since Halo CE. This forum is also quite full of them if you know what to search for.
>
> Example

When I said the classic Halos feel dated, I said it was my opinion. Why do they feels dated to me ? I feel like I’m playing games from another era, the same way I would feel if I was playing The Ocarina of Time.

As I said I could not find threads relevant to the question I asked. The thread you linked in “the perfect Halo 5”. What I want to know is how the classic community would have done their true Halo after Halo 3.

> 2535422112705145;18:
> Kind of a pointless question if you ask me. You’d have to define what change is and isn’t. What halo is and isn’t. And what is considered enough change or not enough change. From my experience when people have listed changes the people respond to their recommendations as not changing enough or too similar. A lot of back round improvements etc.
> […]

I’m not here to judge what change is. I just want to understand the classic Halo fans who feel betrayed by what Bungie and 343i did after Halo 3. I want to understand the vision they had of the franchise. As you said a lot of suggestions from this thread aren’t game-changing, and that is fine.

Thanks for all your ideas guys !