Here is an interview with Team 3d (Team Final Boss before they picked up strongside to replace Saiyan) from 2005. Shortly after the released te first major patch for Halo 2.
Pay close attention to when they are talking about how much the patch REALLY changed gameplay… We are currently with Halo 4, reliving that same pre patch that happened in Halo 2. No one talks about how much better the game was before the patch (Because it wasn’t) they talk about what it was in the end, what everyone will remember it as.
As much as I think it shouldn’t have come to this again…
We need this upcoming patch to be a game changer! …again!
343 just needs to take MORE notes from the pros of Halo’s past, those guys have played more Halo that ANYONE and they know better than anyone what the game needs.
I wanna see some big time changes!
LET’S GOOOOO!
> halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
>
> like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
Well, they are… I don’t know if you noticed, but Halo 2 was terrible on launch. Probably the worst Halo multiplayer to date would be Halo 2 Pre-Patch. Most people are treating Halo 4 the same way they were treating Halo 2. With a huge TU coming up that will completely change the way Halo 4 will be played, it could become the next Halo 2.
> halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
>
> like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
Both have Master chief and cortanas in them and 4 divided by 2 is 2 soo scientifically and mathmatically speaking its twice as good as 2 >.> im jokeing by the way.
> > halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
> >
> > like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
>
> Well, they are… I don’t know if you noticed, but Halo 2 was terrible on launch. Probably the worst Halo multiplayer to date would be Halo 2 Pre-Patch. Most people are treating Halo 4 the same way they were treating Halo 2. With a huge TU coming up that will completely change the way Halo 4 will be played, it could become the next Halo 2.
There is too much -Yoink- in this game that 343 wanted to be in the game.
They won’t fix ordnance, the lack of social and competitive playlists, AAs, flinch etc.
MLG: Do you think there will be any changes that need to be made to the tournaments now that the patch is out and we’ll be using it?
Walshy: There are definitely going to have to be some gametype changes.
Ogre 1: We’re gonna have new maps too…
Walshy: There might have to be some rethinking of the starting ‘nades on some maps. But I’m not sure exactly what yet, because we’ve only been playing it for three or four days and we can’t even tell yet.
MLG: How has the patch affected your play?
Ogre 2: I think it’s helped our team a lot. The way the battle rifle doesn’t spread as much-Danford always shoots so many shots every game and he’s usually just weakening a bunch of guys. And now like every game that we’ve played the last week he’s had the most kills by far. It’s just crazy. And then this kid (gestures to Walshy)…
Ogre 1: He claws ‘em.
Ogre 2: He claws ‘em down (laughs). ‘Cause the melees take down all of your shields now-just a regular melee.
Ogre 1: What’d you say Walsh? Like 50 percent of your battles now start with a melee? You just punch them and then…
Ogre 2: …All I remember is like we were playing Lockout Team Slayer and I called out three guys at lower BR. I see Walsh drop down through the hole and I see his icon just skipping around and then three guys died (everyone laughs). He just beat ‘em all down.
MLG: Have you noticed just from practicing with the patch that any guys besides the ones on your team just got monstrously better?
Walshy: Yeah.
Ogre 2: I think Zyos got a lot better.
Walshy: It’s like they merged Halo 1 a little more into this game, so a lot of those people who had extremely good pistols in Halo 1-0you start seeing them come out a lot more, like Doug (Strangepurple).
Just for the record, 343 actually got advice from a number of MLG and competitive players. They were among the first groups to test the game and provide feedback.
All this highlights is that when it comes to online gaming, a Beta can go along way. I think after things like the Battlefield 3 Beta a lot of people became bitter about Betas as they seemed to just be a marketing tool. Hell, when 343 announced that there’d be no Beta many people, myself included, had no problem, some of us were even happy as we believed that MS may actually be above milking Halo in every conceivable way. We now know how wrong we were.
> > halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
> >
> > like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
>
> Well, they are… I don’t know if you noticed, but Halo 2 was terrible on launch. Probably the worst Halo multiplayer to date would be Halo 2 Pre-Patch. Most people are treating Halo 4 the same way they were treating Halo 2. With a huge TU coming up that will completely change the way Halo 4 will be played, it could become the next Halo 2.
bungie gave us halo ce , they were worth giving a chance to fix halo 2
they took 5 months …so what? what other fps xbl title was as good?
halo 2 was being directly compared to halo ce,best halo ever
now lets look at halo4
343 have constantly let us down and given us nothing so far
they took 4 months which btw is really more like 2 weeks work seeing as their offices arent even back to full capacity yet,they also are being compared to an xbox original being patched, you know blops 2 has already been patched and it came out later, bf gets patched all the time.
halo 4 is being compared to what? reach? it has to be better than reach? that is its predecessor? the worst game in the series, it is being called the worst game in the series by comparing it to the previous worst game LOL
I hope the patch comes and everything is great but I know in reality 343 will fail like they have at everything so far, people are setting themselves up for a huge fall and you are encouraging it…
> halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
>
> like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
This is the real problem. It doesn’t matter how great the gameplay gets. It could be the perfect combination of gunplay and movement ever placed into a Halo game… When it comes down to it you need good places to play. Haven and to some extent Solace and Adrift are the only maps in this game worth considering for competitive play. Halo has lost it’s arena touch and it’s very disappointing. The only thing that saves the competitive maps in Halo game now adays are forged maps. I really wish the games could ship with at the very very least 4 solid symmetrical arena style maps then at least one more per map pack. Halo’s main focus in the early days were 4v4 matches. Those were the bread and butter of what made Halo Halo.
Ascension
Beaver Creek
Colossus
Foundation
Gemini
Ivory Tower
Lockout
Midship
Backwash
Elongation
Gemini
Relic
Sanctuary
Turf
Warlock
Desolation
Tombstone
Just look at that list and die inside a little about where Halo maps have headed. Those are just the smaller size Halo 2 maps…
All together Halo 2 had 7 more smaller maps throughout it’s lifetime than Halo 4 had maps in general at launch. I could literally play on the Halo 2 maps (BTB included) for the rest of my life.
> > halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
> >
> > like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
>
> This is the real problem. It doesn’t matter how great the gameplay gets. It could be the perfect combination of gunplay and movement ever placed into a Halo game… When it comes down to it you need good places to play. Haven and to some extent Solace and Adrift are the only maps in this game worth considering for competitive play. Halo has lost it’s arena touch and it’s very disappointing. The only thing that saves the competitive maps in Halo game now adays are forged maps. I really wish the games could ship with at the very very least 4 solid symmetrical arena style maps then at least one more per map pack. Halo’s main focus in the early days were 4v4 matches. Those were the bread and butter of what made Halo Halo.
>
> Ascension
> Beaver Creek
> Colossus
> Foundation
> Gemini
> Ivory Tower
> Lockout
> Midship
> Backwash
> Elongation
> Gemini
> Relic
> Sanctuary
> Turf
> Warlock
> Desolation
> Tombstone
>
>
> <mark>Just look at that list and die inside a little</mark> about where Halo maps have headed. Those are just the smaller size Halo 2 maps…
>
> All together Halo 2 had 7 more smaller maps throughout it’s lifetime than Halo 4 had maps in general at launch. I could literally play on the Halo 2 maps (BTB included) for the rest of my life.
I can give you one example of a great time I’ve had on each of those maps too. Even laggy Backwash before it was removed. I’m not going to say each map was a pure masterpiece but each map did have at least one gametype that worked well. Some of the least favorite ones are Gemini, Elongation, Colossus, and Backwash.
Gemini was a blast playing FFA. Sniping from the top receiver nodes was always a blast.
Elongation seemed like it wasn’t a fan favorite. I’m not sure why but I personally loved it. I thought it was a much less claustrophobic version of Longest. The moving belt made the map incredibly unique and CTF was just so fun on Elongation.
Colossus was never really talked about during the Halo 2 days. It is still to this day my favorite Team Snipers map. Relic is very close to it though.
Backwash was only hated for the lag. You take away the crazy framerate lag and Backwash is an amazing map. The only map to this day in Halo to utilize fog as a use of cover. I love Backwash and hope that one day a faithful Backwash can be recreated.
> > halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
> >
> > like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
>
> Well, they are… I don’t know if you noticed, but Halo 2 was terrible on launch. Probably the worst Halo multiplayer to date would be Halo 2 Pre-Patch. Most people are treating Halo 4 the same way they were treating Halo 2. With a huge TU coming up that will completely change the way Halo 4 will be played, it could become the next Halo 2.
> > halo 2 had the best maps out of any halo
> >
> > like the 2 games are even relevant to each other …the only thing similar is they both have the word halo on the box
>
> This is the real problem. It doesn’t matter how great the gameplay gets. It could be the perfect combination of gunplay and movement ever placed into a Halo game… When it comes down to it you need good places to play. Haven and to some extent Solace and Adrift are the only maps in this game worth considering for competitive play. Halo has lost it’s arena touch and it’s very disappointing. The only thing that saves the competitive maps in Halo game now adays are forged maps. I really wish the games could ship with at the very very least 4 solid symmetrical arena style maps then at least one more per map pack. Halo’s main focus in the early days were 4v4 matches. Those were the bread and butter of what made Halo Halo.
>
> Ascension
> Beaver Creek
> Colossus
> Foundation
> Gemini
> Ivory Tower
> Lockout
> Midship
> Backwash
> Elongation
> Gemini
> Relic
> Sanctuary
> Turf
> Warlock
> Desolation
> Tombstone
>
>
> Just look at that list and die inside a little about where Halo maps have headed. Those are just the smaller size Halo 2 maps…
>
> All together Halo 2 had 7 more smaller maps throughout it’s lifetime than Halo 4 had maps in general at launch. I could literally play on the Halo 2 maps (BTB included) for the rest of my life.
I think part of the problem is the image Halo achieved that separated it from other shooters at the time and now to some extent). People began defining Halo as the vehicular shooter. It was seen as the one that really did vehicular gameplay well. As time went on the developers (both Bungie and 343) seemed as though they felt they needed to emphasise this more and so we began to see more vehicular maps and less small maps, rather than any sort of balance. Forge could potentially help this, but launch maps are always the most important.
> > Ascension
> > Beaver Creek
> > Colossus
> > Foundation
> > Gemini
> > Ivory Tower
> > Lockout
> > Midship
> > Backwash
> > Elongation
> > Gemini
> > Relic
> > Sanctuary
> > Turf
> > Warlock
> > Desolation
> > Tombstone
>
> Sanctuary and Turf came out in the Killtacular Map Pack. The only two maps in the pack, (April 25 2005)
>
> Backwash, Elongation, Gemini, and Relic came in the Maptacular Map Pack. Four of the five maps. (July 5, 2005)
>
> Desolation and Tombstone came in the Blastacular Map Pack. The only two maps in the pack . (April 17, 2007)
>
> Warlock was part of the Bonus Map Pack. One of only two maps. (April 25 2005)
>
> So for several months is was only:
>
> Ascension
> Beaver Creek
> Colossus
> Foundation
> Ivory Tower
> Lockout
> Midship
>
> 7 of the 12 maps that came with Halo 2 at launch. So it wasn’t early days, it was months later, and in some cases YEARS.
> > > Ascension
> > > Beaver Creek
> > > Colossus
> > > Foundation
> > > Gemini
> > > Ivory Tower
> > > Lockout
> > > Midship
> > > Backwash
> > > Elongation
> > > Gemini
> > > Relic
> > > Sanctuary
> > > Turf
> > > Warlock
> > > Desolation
> > > Tombstone
> >
> > Sanctuary and Turf came out in the Killtacular Map Pack. The only two maps in the pack, (April 25 2005)
> >
> > Backwash, Elongation, Gemini, and Relic came in the Maptacular Map Pack. Four of the five maps. (July 5, 2005)
> >
> > Desolation and Tombstone came in the Blastacular Map Pack. The only two maps in the pack . (April 17, 2007)
> >
> > Warlock was part of the Bonus Map Pack. One of only two maps. (April 25 2005)
> >
> > So for several months is was only:
> >
> > Ascension
> > Beaver Creek
> > Colossus
> > Foundation
> > Ivory Tower
> > Lockout
> > Midship
> >
> > 7 of the 12 maps that came with Halo 2 at launch. So it wasn’t early days, it was months later, and in some cases YEARS.
>
> only 7 amazing maps…oh noesssss
Other then Beaver Creek, and Ivory Tower, I hated the other maps. They weren’t amazing, they were just… there.
> I think part of the problem is the image Halo achieved that separated it from other shooters at the time and now to some extent). People began defining Halo as the vehicular shooter. It was seen as the one that really did vehicular gameplay well. As time went on the developers (both Bungie and 343) seemed as though they felt they needed to emphasise this more and so we began to see more vehicular maps and less small maps, rather than any sort of balance. Forge could potentially help this, but launch maps are always the most important.
The thing that has been killing me when it comes to Halo is the medium sized vehicular maps(or medium sized maps in general). Bungie did it and now 343 is kinda doing it. IMO Their SHOULD NOT be a single medium sized map in the game. Most of these maps always feel like the devs built them with both 4v4 and 8v8 in mind and realized that neither worked so they just toss it into the playlist that feels right. Complex is a good example of this. It isn’t really enormous but it might work in BTB and in a way it’s a little too big for 4v4 or even 5v5. It’s a perfect example of a map that doesn’t really fit anywhere. Those maps need to go away. Boardwalk from Reach gave me a similar feeling. These are the type of maps that just end up working in Snipers and that is pretty much it. For small team games we need small to small-slightly medium sized maps. For BTB we need Bigger Medium-Large sized maps. The average Medium map which seemed to dominate Reach and is now in Halo 4 needs to disappear. Maps like Complex, Isolation and Boardwalk should be killed before conceptualized.
> Other then Beaver Creek, and Ivory Tower, I hated the other maps. They weren’t amazing, they were just… there.
Lockout, Midship, and Ascension called. They all say you’re banned from having an opinion.
I don’t care how “over-rated” or bad some people think Lockout is. The map was versatile… I can’t think of one gametype that didn’t work on that map. I remember playing BTB on Lockout…
