Now just to let you know why the covenant was at war with the humans is because, humans were reclaimers and the prophets thought that if the entirety of the covenant found out it could destroy the empire.
So in my opinion only a few are just bad but not evil.
The prophets were blinded by the great journey
All other species were forced to do, what they believed was right.
So what is your guys opinions on this?
> Now just to let you know why the covenant was at war with the humans is because, humans were reclaimers and the prophets thought that if the entirety of the covenant found out it could destroy the empire.
> So in my opinion only a few are just bad but not evil.
>
> The prophets were blinded by the great journey
> All other species were forced to do, what they believed was right.
>
> So what is your guys opinions on this?
I believe the Prophets actually deluded themselves into believing their own bs. Were the covenant evil however? Not necessarily and this includes the Prophets who as I said most likely deluded themselves enough to actually believe the bs they were spouting out of their mouths.
Useless to answer without knowing what evil means.
That’s a 66% evilness rate.
Wanting to completely eradicate a race is considered evil. In this sense all the covenants are evil.
Prophets did also seem evil, possessed by the devil and with altered mental faculties.
Obviously, every covenant soldier was bad, in our perspective.
> Useless to answer without knowing what evil means.
>
> - profoundly immoral and wicked: YES, killing innocent human civilians is immoral and wicked.
> - (of a force or spirit) embodying or associated with the forces of the devil: NO.
> - harmful or tending to harm: YES, to harm us…
>
> That’s a 66% evilness rate.
> Wanting to completely eradicate a race is considered evil. In this sense all the covenants are evil.
> Prophets did also seem evil, possessed by the devil and with altered mental faculties.
>
> Obviously, every covenant soldier was bad, in our perspective.
True but that is also from our point of view. From a completely neutral point of view the answer might be a no.
> > Useless to answer without knowing what evil means.
> >
> > - profoundly immoral and wicked: YES, killing innocent human civilians is immoral and wicked.
> > - (of a force or spirit) embodying or associated with the forces of the devil: NO.
> > - harmful or tending to harm: YES, to harm us…
> >
> > That’s a 66% evilness rate.
> > Wanting to completely eradicate a race is considered evil. In this sense all the covenants are evil.
> > Prophets did also seem evil, possessed by the devil and with altered mental faculties.
> >
> > Obviously, every covenant soldier was bad, in our perspective.
>
> True but that is also from our point of view. From a completely neutral point of view the answer might be a no.
From a neutral point of view, we can apply the human concept of evil to the covenant for the definition of “immoral and wicked”. Because they kill lot’s of civilian people and glass worlds.
For an elite general killing humans is good because it’s a glory for all his clan and will make him rank up.
Absolute bad and good don’t exist, what is bad for you is good for me, mors tua vita mea, etc…
But as for the adjective “evil” it looks like from a neutral point of view we can apply it to them, always remembering it is a human concept.
Evil is subjective, blah blah blah… but from my perspective, the Prophets were about as evil as evil gets. You can tell they didn’t really worship the Forerunners, because when it came to following what the Forerunners actually said or holding onto power, they chose power. They genuinely believed the Halo array would ascend them into godhood, but it was pure self-interest that led them to pursue it.
Also, look at how the Covenant in general treated Grunts.
> Evil is subjective, blah blah blah… but from my perspective, the Prophets were about as evil as evil gets. You can tell they didn’t really worship the Forerunners, because when it came to following what the Forerunners actually said or holding onto power, they chose power. They genuinely believed the Halo array would ascend them into godhood, but it was pure self-interest that led them to pursue it.
>
> <mark>Also, look at how the Covenant in general treated Grunts.</mark>
Look how they treated humans.
> > Evil is subjective, blah blah blah… but from my perspective, the Prophets were about as evil as evil gets. You can tell they didn’t really worship the Forerunners, because when it came to following what the Forerunners actually said or holding onto power, they chose power. They genuinely believed the Halo array would ascend them into godhood, but it was pure self-interest that led them to pursue it.
> >
> > <mark>Also, look at how the Covenant in general treated Grunts.</mark>
>
> Look how they treated humans.
Look how they treated the Elites too.
> > > Evil is subjective, blah blah blah… but from my perspective, the Prophets were about as evil as evil gets. You can tell they didn’t really worship the Forerunners, because when it came to following what the Forerunners actually said or holding onto power, they chose power. They genuinely believed the Halo array would ascend them into godhood, but it was pure self-interest that led them to pursue it.
> > >
> > > <mark>Also, look at how the Covenant in general treated Grunts.</mark>
> >
> > Look how they treated humans.
>
> Look how they treated the Elites too.
Pretty much this. Yes, they were protecting their way of life, but their way of life was lording over other people. Even though it was originally formed as a bond between the elites and the prophets, they seemed eager to rid themselves of those who had sworn to fight for them for ages.
Its a bunch of slavemasters who are scared they’ll lose their slaves.
Jumping to genocide as your first response is pretty bad…
I realize we are using the human definition/perception of ‘evil,’ but I think most people posting on this thread are missing a major point.
It seems most are ok with labeling the Prophets as evil, due to their machinations to preserve/gain power while using religious doctrine to convince the Covenant to exterminate an entire sentient species.
Why are we letting off the Covenant species so easily though? That they were “manipulated” into committing genocide certainly does not make their actions more excusable. But using our perception of evil, there was PLENTY of evidence to suggest that what they were doing was wrong, even by Covenant species standards.
They were not just killing human soldiers. Unarmed civilians, children, elderly, EVERYONE. The Halo canon has made it clear that even Covenant societies view this as wrong (see: Kilo 5 trilogy as an example for the Elites). Humanity was fighting a pure defensive war for decades, having entire worlds exterminated.
Think of similar situations in human history (the -Yoink!-, Stalin’s purges, Inquisition, Pol Pot, Rwanda, etc.) Ordinary people who actively participate in a genocide when they have a choice to believe a religion or follow an extremist leader is still evil.
And extending that even further beyond the military members of the Covenant. . .
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
The same thing applies to humanity in universe and in real life, and is a reason I want to see many members of ONI be confronted and brought down HARD (whether internally or by UEG or UNSC).
They slaughtered civilizations if they refused to cooperate and join the Covenant.
I guess it depends on your opinion of evil.
The religion of the Covenant centered around the belief that the activation of the Halo rings would send them on a “Great Journey” in which they would meet their Gods, the Forerunners, and become God-like themselves. Sometime before the Human-Covenant War started however, the highest prophets learned that humans were in fact the “Reclaimers” and that all Forerunner artifacts in the galaxy essentially belonged to them. To top it all off, the prophets learned that the Halo rings would actually destroy all life in the Milky Way, not give them transcendence. In a bout of rage and fear for what they had done, the Prophets waged Holy War against the Human race and ordered their warriors to destroy all Human colonized planets (except ones with Forerunner artifacts). In essence, the Prophets became delusional once they learned the truth about the humans and set out to make them extinct. The Elites, Brutes, Grunts, Jackals, Hunters, etc. were all just following orders as they still believed that the halo rings would be their salvation.
> The religion of the Covenant centered around the belief that the activation of the Halo rings would send them on a “Great Journey” in which they would meet their Gods, the Forerunners, and become God-like themselves. Sometime before the Human-Covenant War started however, the highest prophets learned that humans were in fact the “Reclaimers” and that all Forerunner artifacts in the galaxy essentially belonged to them. To top it all off, the prophets learned that the Halo rings would actually destroy all life in the Milky Way, not give them transcendence. In a bout of rage and fear for what they had done, the Prophets waged Holy War against the Human race and ordered their warriors to destroy all Human colonized planets (except ones with Forerunner artifacts). In essence, the Prophets became delusional once they learned the truth about the humans and set out to make them extinct. The Elites, Brutes, Grunts, Jackals, Hunters, etc. were all just following orders as they still believed that the halo rings would be their salvation.
No following orders has no importance.
A suicide grunt perhaps you can say he was following orders and still it’s not a good excuse. But elites had control of operations, fleets and invasions and glassing. The covenant cooperated with the prophets, they were never forced to combat, or never showed the will to stop fighting, aside some grunts…
No and yes.
From their point of view they were not. And from humans point of view they were.
But the Covenant is pretty much just a religion with power to do what they think is right.
Didn’t the Prophets tell the Sangheili that the humans were evil and enemies of their Gods (Forerunners).
So, I guess the Covenant races thought they were eradicating evil.
Edited by Moderator - Please do not post inappropriate comments or make nonconstructive posts.
*Original post, click at your own discretion.
Replace ‘the Covenant’ with ‘-Yoink!- Germany’ and you have your answer.
/thread
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*Original post, click at your own discretion.
> Replace ‘the Covenant’ with ‘-Yoink!- Germany’ and you have your answer.
> /thread
I see lot’s of differences…
The similarity is with -Yoink!-, more than the war actions of germany, that didn’t eradicate France or est europe.
I see more parallelisms with USA’s nuclear bombs or Dresda being bombed or Israel killing Gaza’s civilians with missiles. The third case has a strong religious element as the covenant did.
P.s love using examples that show how the “good ones” in reality have committed and still commit similar sins to “the bad guys”.
Edited by Moderator - Please do not post inappropriate comments. This includes political statements.
*Original post, click at your own discretion.
> > Replace ‘the Covenant’ with ‘-Yoink!- Germany’ and you have your answer.
> > /thread
The idea is the same though; while only a couple hundred Nazis went on trial post-war for crimes against humanity, it took hundreds of thousands of individuals to continue to support their aggressive policies, and think how many Nazis were aware of the genocide being committed and either did nothing or actively chose to perpetuate it.
“Just following orders” does not cut it. It is a fracking lazy and immoral excuse. The Prophets weren’t the ones pulling the trigger against billions of helpless human civilians - the Brutes, Elites, Jackals, Hunters, Grunts, etc. were. And the Elites were in command of the fleets until ~ Halo 3, and Halo lore has illustrated how they feel it dishonorable to kill noncombatants within their own species. The foundation for similar human morality is there - the other Covenant species do not get a pass.
> > Evil is subjective, blah blah blah… but from my perspective, the Prophets were about as evil as evil gets. You can tell they didn’t really worship the Forerunners, because when it came to following what the Forerunners actually said or holding onto power, they chose power. They genuinely believed the Halo array would ascend them into godhood, but it was pure self-interest that led them to pursue it.
> >
> > <mark>Also, look at how the Covenant in general treated Grunts.</mark>
>
> Look how they treated humans.
My point is, Prophets treated humans as they did for a good reason, albeit a selfish one. If we weren’t wiped out, the Covenant would be. Grunts, on the other hand, posed no such threat - heck, they actively helped the Covenant - but faced appalling treatment nonetheless. That sort of senseless, kick-the-dog violence is a special kind of evil.
> > >
The whole, evil, non evil, is a bit silly. Do you seriously think they went, “oh I am evil, muhahahahahaaha?”
When you kill a fly, do you maniacally laugh?
If you’re going to say ‘evil’, then look at the UEG and UNSC against other humans.