Warzone Boss Score Suggestion

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Perhaps this has been suggested before, or at least discussed with a lot of my previous friends on XBL, but I often loathe the scoring system in place right now concerning the bosses in warzone. In a game where literally every single one of these bosses tip the scales in each game, it comes to no surprise that their value is actually what makes the game so unfun at times. This is not to say I don’t like the bosses themselves, because they do serve a purpose in the game type as a means of getting more points to get to 1000 faster. What I don’t like is that if you put in all the effort with your team, get the boss down to nothing, and some player from the other team gets a few DMR shots into it (One of which happened to be the last shot that kills it), then it completely invalidates all that effort into a ‘Ha ha you didn’t get the final bullet in’ kind of vibe when the other team gets all the points.

The bosses themselves can be quite a pack of damage sponges if you don’t have the REQs or a group of people to take it out, so the whole idea that the final bullet method that works in a typical PVP environment should have been completely thrown on the window, as it rewards luck and negates effort made. Couple this with the fact that the game does have multiple win conditions, and if you are struggling just to hold down one of the armories, most people tend to ignore the bosses high and low; which causes an even greater disparity in the points necessary to achieve victory. So I talked it out with some folks as we played, and some of us even agreed that some things have to change.

As a possible solution to this dilemma, I suggest going with the popular percentage based point system, where the more damage that a team does to the boss, the more points they will net upon its death. No matter how long it takes to defeat that boss, the percentage rate is consistent. There will be, however, be still an incentive to actually getting the final bullet in. The team whose player actually gets in the final shot will guarantee additional bonus points.

As an example:

Boss: Warden Eternal (Will have a value of 100 points in the game)

Final Bullet Bonus 50 Points

Red Team deals 82% damage

Blue Team deals 18% (Their team gets the final bullet)

Red Team will gain 82 points from that battle, while Blue Team will get 68 points since they got the final shot into the boss. If Red team had managed to get the final bullet in, they would have gained 132 points, causing a huge gap in the points, but some effort would have been rewarded to Blue Team, as they would still get 18 points.

This kind of system would actually reward effort as well as good skill and decision making between both teams. So if people died trying to use their REQs against a boss, then the points still add up from their efforts, thus taking away a bit of the sting that they died, but still motivate them to try harder…

2

Yes, the last hit kill nonsense does not nor has it ever made sense. It wouldn’t be so bad if it were consistent. Unfortunately it is the polar opposite of consistent. I’ve personnally stolen kills when I did not land the last shot. I’ve even earned credit while sitting in the spawn queue from being picked off or being bad (aka boss killed me). At first I assumed lag. But a bit ago I earned a kill for a boss I seriously never hit once. I was fighting over an armory and bam, I killed a boss out of my LoS across the map. That can’t be lag…

Your suggestion seems reasonable and would be a definite improvement.

3

> 2535446485707379;2:
> Yes, the last hit kill nonsense does not nor has it ever made sense. It wouldn’t be so bad if it were consistent. Unfortunately it is the polar opposite of consistent. I’ve personnally stolen kills when I did not land the last shot. I’ve even earned credit while sitting in the spawn queue from being picked off or being bad (aka boss killed me). At first I assumed lag. But a bit ago I earned a kill for a boss I seriously never hit once. I was fighting over an armory and bam, I killed a boss out of my LoS across the map. That can’t be lag…
>
> Your suggestion seems reasonable and would be a definite improvement.

Warzone does need an improvement, and hopefully 343i is willing to fix the issues so that the game can be enjoyed so both teams end up on even footing. I don’t mind losing 500-1000 if I knew I genuinely did bad, and I admit, that does happen to be the case sometimes. But I have faced scenarios where my entire team was just wailing on Captain Wonik in his Banshee one time in Escape from Ark, firing from the Grotto with Rockets, Kinetic bolt BRs and a guy in an Oni warthog, and we thought for certain we were getting the kill. Sadly we just grew confused when the enemy happened to be in a clear enough field of vision from their armory and landed that last shot.

Sadly I think I heard that 343 does not intend to ever fix this issue.

4

Bosses are objectives, and kill stealing them is a sound tactic and makes perfect sense.

I however want health bars removed. None of this point sharing stuff.

5

This is absolutely my favorite suggestion of all the ones that come up. Makes the most sense to me.

6

> 2533274795123910;4:
> Bosses are objectives, and kill stealing them is a sound tactic and makes perfect sense.
>
> I however want health bars removed. None of this point sharing stuff.

If the bosses themselves were of low value like the Soldier Commander or the Recon Pilot, I might have agreed with you. Kill stealing may even be fine in a PVP scenario, but at least your team got the point anyways in that objective. But 150 points, which literally throws sway to the whole battle? I would wholeheartedly disagree. Yes Bosses are objectives, meaning both teams have to go after them, and what I have suggested is not point sharing, but giving credit where credit is due.

7

The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.

Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.

8

> 2560081931056311;7:
> The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
>
> Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.

That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.

9

> 2533274823412826;8:
> > 2560081931056311;7:
> > The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
> >
> > Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.
>
>
> That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.

So its difficult? That’s the point.

Not cheap shotting, its strategy

Wait so are you saying that you don’t like the last shot thing, or that you don’t think it registers the last shot correctly? Those are two different things.

10

This is the best thing I’ve seen suggested in a while!

11

> 2560081931056311;9:
> > 2533274823412826;8:
> > > 2560081931056311;7:
> > > The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
> > >
> > > Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.
> >
> >
> > That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.
>
>
> So its difficult? That’s the point.
>
> Not cheap shotting, its strategy
>
> Wait so are you saying that you don’t like the last shot thing, or that you don’t think it registers the last shot correctly? Those are two different things.

If it was implemented correctly, then this would have been a non-issue. I don’t mind that its difficult, but if you are going to hold sway the results of getting 150 points from an AI based on one shot, because the other team is out and about doing almost nothing productive, but they had one guy come out and get an opportunity to kill a boss when 5-6 guys from the opposing team are wailing on it, then what is to show of their efforts? That is a flawed concept and should have never made it past the board room. And no, its not strategy, its a cheap mode of opportunism, like in the real world. Do I still get my full shifts pay if some jerk decided to work the last few minutes for me? Hell no, it does not work that way in real life, and I certainly don’t expect it to work in a video game environment.

I say both to your last question, it was a flawed concept in design and in practice.

12

> 2533274823412826;11:
> > 2560081931056311;9:
> > > 2533274823412826;8:
> > > > 2560081931056311;7:
> > > > The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
> > > >
> > > > Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.
> > >
> > >
> > > That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.
> >
> >
> > So its difficult? That’s the point.
> >
> > Not cheap shotting, its strategy
> >
> > Wait so are you saying that you don’t like the last shot thing, or that you don’t think it registers the last shot correctly? Those are two different things.
>
>
> If it was implemented correctly, then this would have been a non-issue. I don’t mind that its difficult, but if you are going to hold sway the results of getting 150 points from an AI based on one shot, because the other team is out and about doing almost nothing productive, but they had one guy come out and get an opportunity to kill a boss when 5-6 guys from the opposing team are wailing on it, then what is to show of their efforts? That is a flawed concept and should have never made it past the board room. And no, its not strategy, its a cheap mode of opportunism, like in the real world. Do I still get my full shifts pay if some jerk decided to work the last few minutes for me? Hell no, it does not work that way in real life, and I certainly don’t expect it to work in a video game environment.
>
> I say both to your last question, it was a flawed concept in design and in practice.

It is implemented correctly though. You saying that 1 vs 6 guys shooting at an enemy is random, but that’s not an issue of coding, is an issue of bullets coming form seven different guns. If your 6 guys can’t kill that one, well then he deserves to get the kill just as much as you do.

It is strategy, because its how the game is set up.

Working a shift and killing something is different. You like analogies? I’ll give you one. Lets go hunting, you and me. See that deer? Shoot it. Awesome you shot it, lets go skin it. Oh no, its still alive. Pull out your gun and put it out of its misery. BANG! Whoops, looks like I shot the deer first!!

Who killed the deer? I did. Because my shot was the killing shot.

Its not a flawed concept, it makes sense. I also don’t see how its flawed in practice. I’ve heard people say why they think this, buy I’ve never experienced it. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t flawed, I just don’t understand how.

13

> 2560081931056311;12:
> > 2533274823412826;11:
> > > 2560081931056311;9:
> > > > 2533274823412826;8:
> > > > > 2560081931056311;7:
> > > > > The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.
> > >
> > >
> > > So its difficult? That’s the point.
> > >
> > > Not cheap shotting, its strategy
> > >
> > > Wait so are you saying that you don’t like the last shot thing, or that you don’t think it registers the last shot correctly? Those are two different things.
> >
> >
> > If it was implemented correctly, then this would have been a non-issue. I don’t mind that its difficult, but if you are going to hold sway the results of getting 150 points from an AI based on one shot, because the other team is out and about doing almost nothing productive, but they had one guy come out and get an opportunity to kill a boss when 5-6 guys from the opposing team are wailing on it, then what is to show of their efforts? That is a flawed concept and should have never made it past the board room. And no, its not strategy, its a cheap mode of opportunism, like in the real world. Do I still get my full shifts pay if some jerk decided to work the last few minutes for me? Hell no, it does not work that way in real life, and I certainly don’t expect it to work in a video game environment.
> >
> > I say both to your last question, it was a flawed concept in design and in practice.
>
>
> It is implemented correctly though. You saying that 1 vs 6 guys shooting at an enemy is random, but that’s not an issue of coding, is an issue of bullets coming form seven different guns. If your 6 guys can’t kill that one, well then he deserves to get the kill just as much as you do.
>
> It is strategy, because its how the game is set up.
>
> Working a shift and killing something is different. You like analogies? I’ll give you one. Lets go hunting, you and me. See that deer? Shoot it. Awesome you shot it, lets go skin it. Oh no, its still alive. Pull out your gun and put it out of its misery. BANG! Whoops, looks like I shot the deer first!!
>
> Who killed the deer? I did. Because my shot was the killing shot.
>
> Its not a flawed concept, it makes sense. I also don’t see how its flawed in practice. I’ve heard people say why they think this, buy I’ve never experienced it. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t flawed, I just don’t understand how.

But why should that one person gain all the points when so little of his/her effort was imposed to get the kill? That is why I suggested a percentage based system so that the effort on both sides is based on the quality effort of both sides, not just the opportunity kill. I even had it so that the final shot does still get imposed, but the efforts on the team that did most of the damage still awards their ability to do so. That is why I don’t like it, because you get nothing if you did 99% of the damage with your team, but its all for nothing if you don’t land the last bullet.

The funny thing about your analogy was you did not even know it was still alive until you got close enough to realize it was not dead and had to put another shot in to put it down for good.

Ok, I admit its not a flawed concept, but flawed in its programming and design because of the above statements.

14

> 2533274823412826;13:
> > 2560081931056311;12:
> > > 2533274823412826;11:
> > > > 2560081931056311;9:
> > > > > 2533274823412826;8:
> > > > > > 2560081931056311;7:
> > > > > > The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So its difficult? That’s the point.
> > > >
> > > > Not cheap shotting, its strategy
> > > >
> > > > Wait so are you saying that you don’t like the last shot thing, or that you don’t think it registers the last shot correctly? Those are two different things.
> > >
> > >
> > > If it was implemented correctly, then this would have been a non-issue. I don’t mind that its difficult, but if you are going to hold sway the results of getting 150 points from an AI based on one shot, because the other team is out and about doing almost nothing productive, but they had one guy come out and get an opportunity to kill a boss when 5-6 guys from the opposing team are wailing on it, then what is to show of their efforts? That is a flawed concept and should have never made it past the board room. And no, its not strategy, its a cheap mode of opportunism, like in the real world. Do I still get my full shifts pay if some jerk decided to work the last few minutes for me? Hell no, it does not work that way in real life, and I certainly don’t expect it to work in a video game environment.
> > >
> > > I say both to your last question, it was a flawed concept in design and in practice.
> >
> >
> > It is implemented correctly though. You saying that 1 vs 6 guys shooting at an enemy is random, but that’s not an issue of coding, is an issue of bullets coming form seven different guns. If your 6 guys can’t kill that one, well then he deserves to get the kill just as much as you do.
> >
> > It is strategy, because its how the game is set up.
> >
> > Working a shift and killing something is different. You like analogies? I’ll give you one. Lets go hunting, you and me. See that deer? Shoot it. Awesome you shot it, lets go skin it. Oh no, its still alive. Pull out your gun and put it out of its misery. BANG! Whoops, looks like I shot the deer first!!
> >
> > Who killed the deer? I did. Because my shot was the killing shot.
> >
> > Its not a flawed concept, it makes sense. I also don’t see how its flawed in practice. I’ve heard people say why they think this, buy I’ve never experienced it. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t flawed, I just don’t understand how.
>
>
> But why should that one person gain all the points when so little of his/her effort was imposed to get the kill? That is why I suggested a percentage based system so that the effort on both sides is based on the quality effort of both sides, not just the opportunity kill. I even had it so that the final shot does still get imposed, but the efforts on the team that did most of the damage still awards their ability to do so. That is why I don’t like it, because you get nothing if you did 99% of the damage with your team, but its all for nothing if you don’t land the last bullet.
>
> The funny thing about your analogy was you did not even know it was still alive until you got close enough to realize it was not dead and had to put another shot in to put it down for good.
>
> Ok, I admit its not a flawed concept, but flawed in its programming and design because of the above statements.

Because they delivered the killing shot. Effort doesn’t have to equate to points.

That’s unrelated to the analogy…but fine. Say you shot a deer once and downed it, then I could still see it was alive and killed it before you could. I still “stole” the kill.

I wasn’t clear on your statements about what its programming is flawed, but I’ll just assume you have the same complaints as all the ones I’ve seen before.

15

The disagreement is taking the initiative should be rewarding. If team A was aware the boss was coming and actively went after it, which potentially jeopardizes map control, a base advantage and/or their ability to pressure the opposing team, they should have something to gain for it. Conversely, the guy hiding in the corner with a rail gun, bent on ninjaing the boss because his team was either incapable or unwilling to outplay the opposing team, shouldn’t stand to gain so much. Far too often a team outplays the other and still loses over this. It should not be a thing. If you want the points you should be required to work for them.

16

I don’t mind the concept as it stands but wouldn’t mind a change in points awarded. Maybe like 120 for the legendaries and 35 for the hunters & jockeys, 25 for the rest.

17

> 2533274823412826;6:
> > 2533274795123910;4:
> > Bosses are objectives, and kill stealing them is a sound tactic and makes perfect sense.
> >
> > I however want health bars removed. None of this point sharing stuff.
>
>
> If the bosses themselves were of low value like the Soldier Commander or the Recon Pilot, I might have agreed with you. Kill stealing may even be fine in a PVP scenario, but at least your team got the point anyways in that objective. But 150 points, which literally throws sway to the whole battle? I would wholeheartedly disagree. Yes Bosses are objectives, meaning both teams have to go after them, and what I have suggested is not point sharing, but giving credit where credit is due.

One team is given credit where credit is due, getting the killing blow.

Play smart, not harder.

Playing smart in this case being that you allow the enemy team to pull out their big guns with REQ points and wither the boss down, only to come in and swipe it from right under their feet.
Playing hard in this case means pulling out your heavy arsenal in order to just DPS the boss into oblivion.

Are you going to get five of your friends to manually flip a big rock?
Or are you going to get your smarts out and fetch a lever to flip it on your own?

You win by outsmarting your opponents.

> 2533274823412826;13:
> > 2560081931056311;12:
> > > 2533274823412826;11:
> > > > 2560081931056311;9:
> > > > > 2533274823412826;8:
> > > > > > 2560081931056311;7:
> > > > > > The last shot tactic promotes teamwork, at least it does for me. When Warden is up and I’ve got my team laying into him, myself and a few others (or just me if I’m solo) will kill all of the enemy Spartans. I do my best to not let them steal the kill from us. Defense is just as important as offense here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus, they’re already said they aren’t going to change it because it is exactly how they intended it to be.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That is not always the case though, between defending the bases, killing off enemy Spartans, and trying to kill the boss, you won’t always have that opportunity to just keep the other players away. Cheap shotting that last bullet in is not any form of actual skill, but based on luck, no matter how many bullets fly, because as a guy who posted on this thread said, that he actually got the boss kill, but didn’t even shoot the boss, or was dead near it… The way that 343 implemented it is no different than when a person actually took the time to board a wraith or a scorpion that has full health, gave it the instant death grenade, but somebody else gets the kill when they happened to be firing on the same vehicle. This was never an issue in previous games until Halo 5, and even in Halo 4, which was 343’s first intro the series, did not have it either. It makes me question the company’s ability to actually program the game to interpret exactly who got the final shot in.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So its difficult? That’s the point.
> > > >
> > > > Not cheap shotting, its strategy
> > > >
> > > > Wait so are you saying that you don’t like the last shot thing, or that you don’t think it registers the last shot correctly? Those are two different things.
>
>
> But why should that one person gain all the points when so little of his/her effort was imposed to get the kill? That is why I suggested a percentage based system so that the effort on both sides is based on the quality effort of both sides, not just the opportunity kill. I even had it so that the final shot does still get imposed, but the efforts on the team that did most of the damage still awards their ability to do so. That is why I don’t like it, because you get nothing if you did 99% of the damage with your team, but its all for nothing if you don’t land the last bullet.
>
> The funny thing about your analogy was you did not even know it was still alive until you got close enough to realize it was not dead and had to put another shot in to put it down for good.
>
> Ok, I admit its not a flawed concept, but flawed in its programming and design because of the above statements.

Why should an objective’s reward be rewarded based on “effort”?

If you do 99% of the damage and does not get the last shot, you got outplayed by the opponent, it’s as simple as that. You don’t have to like it, I for one hated it when two wardens got stolen in my last Noctus match (we won the game by score anyway), but I think it’s a good system to have in place in order to reward smart players who go around problems rather than exhaust themselves by launching themselves right at the problem.