Warning: 12-man Fireteams in Regular Warzone

Just a PSA for solo/small group players that currently regular Warzone is allowing fireteams of up to 12 people. I’ve stuck with Halo 5 since release, and this is the first thing that has finally made the mode unenjoyable.

Kinda makes Warzone Warlords redundant if this is the case.

It’s been like that for around a year and half now. Link.

> 2727626560040591;3:
> It’s been like that for around a year and half now. Link.

Sorry if I misunderstood the time frame: I thought that was during the period of 343i testing between allowing or disallowing 12-man fireteams in regular Warzone while Warzone Warlords was still a much more occasional event? I remember there being a lot of debate between solo/small group players and clans during this time, and as I play Warzone regularly, I’ve observed between then and now that the mode description in regular Warzone limited fireteams to less than 12.

> 2535429593088083;2:
> Kinda makes Warzone Warlords redundant if this is the case.

Yes

> 2533274873390670;4:
> Sorry if I misunderstood the time frame: I thought that was during the period of 343i testing between allowing or disallowing 12-man fireteams in regular Warzone while Warzone Warlords was still a much more occasional event? I remember there being a lot of debate between solo/small group players and clans during this time, and as I play Warzone regularly, I’ve observed between then and now that the mode description in regular Warzone limited fireteams to less than 12.

It was advertised as a test, but they didn’t go back to limited fireteams after it was implemented or if they did it wasn’t mentioned, but I’ve read posts in the months following that test which would suggest they kept the 12 person teams. TrueSkill 2 was also implemented around 5 months later and there were also posts about 12 person parties not being able to find a game after it was implemented, but they didn’t reduce the party size. The description issue might’ve been an oversight for awhile, but that’s just my guess.

I’ve played and have been repeatedly annihilated by teams of at least 6 or more quite often in regular Warzone. It would be nice if 343 could control this but I don’t think it would be easy, players will find a way around it.

Sounds like time to avoid WZ for a while. It’s a bit ridiculous dealing with clans that are trying to get easy wins…seen it too often where teams are heavily unbalanced because of this, makes it unplayable.

Warzone had no fireteam limit from Halo 5’s release up until December 2016, when a fireteam limit of 6 was implemented. The limit was lifted back in October 2017 though, so 12 man teams have been a thing for a while now. It’s really nothing new. Warlords is there to be used as a way to do “Warzone customs” since there is no option to do so in custom games. I know lots of teams that like to use Warlords to easily match each other.

> 2533274887841772;9:
> Warzone had no fireteam limit from Halo 5’s release up until December 2016, when a fireteam limit of 6 was implemented. The limit was lifted back in October 2017 though, so 12 man teams have been a thing for a while now. It’s really nothing new. Warlords is there to be used as a way to do “Warzone customs” since there is no option to do so in custom games. I know lots of teams that like to use Warlords to easily match each other.

Except Warlords only reason for existence in the first place was to give the clans a reason to go there instead of normal WZ but removing the limitation on normal WZ kind of makes Warlords seem a bit pointless if there just ignoring it, I doubt they’ll re-add it since the playlist probably has low population.

Warlords has a few problems which is most likely due to population. The first is how many full parties are actually playing at the same time. Without coordinating anything, a party could be searching indefinitely because it’s likely there are very few full parties that are playing at the same time or none at all, and by now Warlords probably has a reputation for being a dead playlist so people are likely going to avoid it if they’re just randomly forming a party to play.

The second is limited competition. Even if they do find random matches, they’ll likely be playing the same people over and over again which could get old especially if one party is vastly superior to the other one. This can lead to them migrating over to regular Warzone if it wasn’t a prearranged scrim.

The last one is how parties want to play. If they’re not looking for a sweaty game or they want to beat up on randoms, then they’re not going to play Warlords. This becomes an issue with random teams since even non-sweaty game with a decent full party can appear like it is so they’re kind of -Yoink!- if they do and -Yoink!- if they don’t from a solo player perspective.

I get they may have wanted to play with randomers but there’s no reason why they couldn’t just split their ‘teams’ in half instead of ruining it for everyone else. I think this is partly 343i’s fault too for making the mode online only so these clan’s can’t just play WZ custom with random clans.

I don’t think that’s a practical solution either. I doubt they’re going to purposely split their teams so randoms can have a better experience while making theirs worse since they can’t play with the people they want to play with and they’re stuck with random players who will likely perform below their standards. 343 could tighten the skill matching, but then teams would likely rarely find a game and it would probably get other general complaints as well. There’s not really a solution to please everyone unless the population gets a lot bigger so the system can work better.

> 2727626560040591;13:
> I don’t think that’s a practical solution either. I doubt they’re going to purposely split their teams so randoms can have a better experience while making theirs worse since they can’t play with the people they want to play with and they’re stuck with random players who will likely perform below their standards. 343 could tighten the skill matching, but then teams would likely rarely find a game and it would probably get other general complaints as well. There’s not really a solution to please everyone unless the population gets a lot bigger so the system can work better.

I think you’re missing the point. They already did this before, of course it makes more sense to split the teams…it’s the entire reason Warlords exists in the 1st place.

Nobody is saying they’d all be split up but just that there should be less of them to coordinate things like spawn killing to avoid griefing because most clans use this to force an unfair advantage in-game, where nobody can do anything but be spawn killed in WZ, makes it unplayable so yes I’d rather ‘randoms’ of solo players or small teams have a decent game instead of a game where the majority will find the game unplayable.

As for full team complaints…sure some might complain about that but the majority of people playing this game-type would be more irritated that they are unable to enjoy the game with friends or by myself due to people like this that are ruining it for the majority of people playing this game. The solution to shorten these type of issues is to limit the parties to around 6 players instead of the full 12 parties clan’s trying to grief other players.

Though there is a 3rd option idea and that’s giving players an extra option to turn off finding match’s in matchmaking for players with 6+ parties to avoid these type of players but highly doubt 343i would ever add this since they haven’t shown much interest in updating the game in a long time and well it has plenty of other issues as it is. Anyway all of this may not been as bad if 343i didn’t force the mode to be online only since I’m sure the clans would have probably been ok just playing this in custom games but sadly 343i never gave it a chance due to the p2w elements.

> 2533274829873463;14:
> I think you’re missing the point. They already did this before, of course it makes more sense to split the teams…it’s the entire reason Warlords exists in the 1st place.
>
> Nobody is saying they’d all be split up but just that there should be less of them to coordinate things like spawn killing to avoid griefing because most clans use this to force an unfair advantage in-game

I know they did that before, but I was under the impression that you meant the parties themselves would voluntarily split up their teams which is why I responded the way I did. Either way, 343 removed that party size limitation because they updated the skill matching system and they haven’t found a need to change it back or else they would’ve done it during the testing phase. Maybe it needs to be looked at again? Also, making it parties of six isn’t going to reduce spawn killing with decent players. In fact, some parties intentionally farmed people during that time to protest to the party size change and some did it unintentionally because they could kill the other team, but they couldn’t core them. It sucks, but the playlist would need a better pool of players to draw from in order to make the games more fair for random teams against parties which I’m assuming it doesn’t at the moment and I doubt 343 is going to change much if anything.

I’m also not sure why this issue has made a reemergence since 12 person parties have been allowed for a good while now. Have they come back to Warzone recently?

> 2727626560040591;15:
> > 2533274829873463;14:
> > I think you’re missing the point. They already did this before, of course it makes more sense to split the teams…it’s the entire reason Warlords exists in the 1st place.
> >
> > Nobody is saying they’d all be split up but just that there should be less of them to coordinate things like spawn killing to avoid griefing because most clans use this to force an unfair advantage in-game
>
> I know they did that before, but I was under the impression that you meant the parties themselves would voluntarily split up their teams which is why I responded the way I did. Either way, 343 removed that party size limitation because they updated the skill matching system and they haven’t found a need to change it back or else they would’ve done it during the testing phase. Maybe it needs to be looked at again? Also, making it parties of six isn’t going to reduce spawn killing with decent players. In fact, some parties intentionally farmed people during that time to protest to the party size change and some did it unintentionally because they could kill the other team, but they couldn’t core them. It sucks, but the playlist would need a better pool of players to draw from in order to make the games more fair for random teams against parties which I’m assuming it doesn’t at the moment and I doubt 343 is going to change much if anything.
>
> I’m also not sure why this issue has made a reemergence since 12 person parties have been allowed for a good while now. Have they come back to Warzone recently?

I was never aware they reverted it back to 12 man teams until this thread and I lurk around here a fair bit. Perhaps most of the community is unware of this as well or it was just me.

> 2533274894985914;16:
> I was never aware they reverted it back to 12 man teams until this thread and I lurk around here a fair bit. Perhaps most of the community is unware of this as well or it was just me.

It depends if you frequented the MM Feedback threads or not since that’s where just about all of the discussion for it took place. Could also be that a lot of the dedicated parties moved on when it was restricted to 6 person teams and never came back even when it was changed, so there were less full parties that people would run into during that time.

Warzone team size should have never been restricted the first time. Being able to run teams of 12 was mentioned in pre release pressers and ads. The inclusion of 12 player fire teams was a deciding factor on several people I know to buy halo 5. When the game was changed to no longer include this several of my friends left. A couple of them were refunded the purchase price along with req purchases. Many of them stayed and just played btb instead. The popularity of warzone dropped substantially when teams were removed the first time. I would strongly recommend not trying this again. The mode never really recovered from the first go around.

> 2533274829873463;14:
> > 2727626560040591;13:
> > I don’t think that’s a practical solution either. I doubt they’re going to purposely split their teams so randoms can have a better experience while making theirs worse since they can’t play with the people they want to play with and they’re stuck with random players who will likely perform below their standards. 343 could tighten the skill matching, but then teams would likely rarely find a game and it would probably get other general complaints as well. There’s not really a solution to please everyone unless the population gets a lot bigger so the system can work better.
>
> I think you’re missing the point. They already did this before, of course it makes more sense to split the teams…it’s the entire reason Warlords exists in the 1st place.
>
> Nobody is saying they’d all be split up but just that there should be less of them to coordinate things like spawn killing to avoid griefing because most clans use this to force an unfair advantage in-game, where nobody can do anything but be spawn killed in WZ, makes it unplayable so yes I’d rather ‘randoms’ of solo players or small teams have a decent game instead of a game where the majority will find the game unplayable.
>
> As for full team complaints…sure some might complain about that but the majority of people playing this game-type would be more irritated that they are unable to enjoy the game with friends or by myself due to people like this that are ruining it for the majority of people playing this game. The solution to shorten these type of issues is to limit the parties to around 6 players instead of the full 12 parties clan’s trying to grief other players.
>
> Though there is a 3rd option idea and that’s giving players an extra option to turn off finding match’s in matchmaking for players with 6+ parties to avoid these type of players but highly doubt 343i would ever add this since they haven’t shown much interest in updating the game in a long time and well it has plenty of other issues as it is. Anyway all of this may not been as bad if 343i didn’t force the mode to be online only since I’m sure the clans would have probably been ok just playing this in custom games but sadly 343i never gave it a chance due to the p2w elements.

  1. The time when warzone warlords was implemented, there was way more 12 man teams going around. Nowadays there is only a few teams which makes it harder to play warlords.

  2. You have to understand that up until recently, halo 5 was basically ruined for anyone who had a higher skill set. The ridiculously strict skill based matchmaking made it hard for people to enjoy the game wirh friends, even if in small groups. However, the skill based matchmaking is either gone or less strict now resulting for a lot of people ebing able to enjoy the game again. 343 can’t make everyone happy. You need to understand that.

  3. That feature you spoke about, the ability to turn off finding teams of 6+ people would do nothing but hurt the game more. This could of been viable in 2015, but in 2019 with the population getting lower every month. This would probably kill it for anyone who likes to play in teams.

  4. Not every team is a clan. Hardly anyone griefs anymore. Farming is basically a thing of the past unless you are unfortunate to have someone on your team who the other team dislikes. Most team quick cores now because there is no point in farming.

  5. Warzone is not pay to win, I have never felt at a significant disadvantage to those who paid there way to reqs. Its not like earning them through req points is hard or long as most the meta reqs are found in silver packs.

> 2727626560040591;15:
> > 2533274829873463;14:
> >
>
> I know they did that before, but I was under the impression that you meant the parties themselves would voluntarily split up their teams which is why I responded the way I did. Either way, 343 removed that party size limitation because they updated the skill matching system and they haven’t found a need to change it back or else they would’ve done it during the testing phase. Maybe it needs to be looked at again? Also, making it parties of six isn’t going to reduce spawn killing with decent players. In fact, some parties intentionally farmed people during that time to protest to the party size change and some did it unintentionally because they could kill the other team, but they couldn’t core them. It sucks, but the playlist would need a better pool of players to draw from in order to make the games more fair for random teams against parties which I’m assuming it doesn’t at the moment and I doubt 343 is going to change much if anything.
>
> I’m also not sure why this issue has made a reemergence since 12 person parties have been allowed for a good while now. Have they come back to Warzone recently?

Actually it could reduce the spawn camping due to coordination would be decreased…while with random’s this is harder to do. Hardly a reemergence issue but a common one that’s been a problem for a while.

> 2533274855795191;19:
> > 2533274829873463;14:
> > > 2727626560040591;13:
> > >
>
> 1. The time when warzone warlords was implemented, there was way more 12 man teams going around. Nowadays there is only a few teams which makes it harder to play warlords.
>
> 2. You have to understand that up until recently, halo 5 was basically ruined for anyone who had a higher skill set. The ridiculously strict skill based matchmaking made it hard for people to enjoy the game wirh friends, even if in small groups. However, the skill based matchmaking is either gone or less strict now resulting for a lot of people ebing able to enjoy the game again. 343 can’t make everyone happy. You need to understand that.
>
> 3. That feature you spoke about, the ability to turn off finding teams of 6+ people would do nothing but hurt the game more. This could of been viable in 2015, but in 2019 with the population getting lower every month. This would probably kill it for anyone who likes to play in teams.
>
> 4. Not every team is a clan. Hardly anyone griefs anymore. Farming is basically a thing of the past unless you are unfortunate to have someone on your team who the other team dislikes. Most team quick cores now because there is no point in farming.
>
> 5. Warzone is not pay to win, I have never felt at a significant disadvantage to those who paid there way to reqs. Its not like earning them through req points is hard or long as most the meta reqs are found in silver packs.

  1. Sure that might have been true back then but low population shouldn’t be an excuse for them to make other playlists unplayable.
  2. If you mean ‘ranked’ skill match’s then not sure since I generally avoid those these days due to my general dislike of Halo 5, how unbalanced the game is overall but that’s just another topic altogether but I have noticed in general playlists that the matchmaking is all over the place since games where I have been mvp then there are times where the games design is so bad that it’s physically impossible to fight back because of reasons like spawn trapping or poor hit registration, player’s exploiting map to gain an unfair advantage, etc…
  3. Have to disagree, if I, my friends can play online without being camped by clans exploiting spawns then I’m sure I’ll have fun. Not really interested if the 12 player clans aren’t happy that they can’t ruin everyone else’s experience…can’t please everyone.
  4. As for quick rush team cores…once clans do that then they are ruining the experience, what would be the point in loading the game if people are rushing to win the objective when my team can barely fight back? (Quickest I’ve seen rushers is completing WZ in about 1-2 minutes, makes the match seem kind of pointless)
  5. False, you can pay for the chance to gain an advantage…whether it’s small or large is irrelevant, this is was more noticeable at launch and because of these p2w elements…it forced the game into online only, is probably the same reason why we can’t have WZ custom games.