Warden Eternal in Warzone, problem and solution

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So i was just in a game which was close. Towards the end some of my teammates were directing each other to hunt the next boss and capture the middle while we were losing by 100 points. Half the team assaulted the Spire, my group killed some banshees, killed enemies attempting to kill Hestro, then we killed Hestro. The other half of the team managed the Capture the spire as well. At that point we were winning by 100 points. 700-600ish. Some of us went to take their final Armory and while doing so I managed to kill 2 of their tanks (one required 2 grenades and a ton of punching… i recorded the a clip of it… it was on fire before i attacked it) to reduce their ability to attack the Warden. My team spawned 3 tanks. 1 of our tanks brought him to half health. I push my tank between him and the spire so block enemy rounds and put his back to our 3rd tank. We completely Obliterated him. BUT even tho we did 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the damage, we didnt get any points, since 1 random shot it with a feul rod from a mile away and stole the kill.

The Warden Kill invalided our push to capture bases, It invalidated our efforts to neutralize their Armor, it invalidated our efforts to kill bosses, invalidated our efforts to maintain map control, because 1 person could get a shot off at the end of a close game and completely flip the past 10 minutes worth of effort, 850-960. (the previous 10 was a tie.)

Solution:
If the Warden is there to keep games at 20 minutes long, as a game ender, instead either make other boss kills worth slightly more and increase the speed points are gained from bases. (ive been in games where we hold 1 and spend the whole game stealing boss kills to win by a massive lead. since bases are worthless). Reduce the how much the Warden is worth.

2

I disagree with you, the Warden Eternal is great the way he is. If the enemy team manages to steal the kill under your noses at the last minute due to your team not properly controlling the area behind him, then it was good playing on their part. Like any other boss, he is meant to be a tug of war that can turn the tide of the battle at any point. In other words, he is both meant to let the winning team finish up and get their victory with the bonus 150 points, as well as a means for the losing team to prevent that victory and catch up in points.

From what I can tell, you’re unhappy with the variety of win conditions that come with playing Warzone. You had a game where you kept one base and got points with bosses? Seems like smart play to me. The enemy won by stealing the Warden Eternal? Good tactics there too. Warzone shouldn’t be a monotonous “let’s just capture the bases to win” gametype, it should be exactly like it is : giving players a lot of different objectives to strive for, with a battlefield that is always changing.

3

> 2533274808386392;2:
> due to your team not properly controlling the area behind him, then it was good playing on their part. Like any other boss, he is meant to be a tug of war that can turn the tide of the battle at any point.

So its my teams fault for Enemy is Camping in their Bases Over Watch Spawn which we have no ability to enter? Cool, I hope i get into every single game you play, so i sit in there with a sniper rifle and 4 shot his back for the win Every single time.

The issue im bringing up is the difference between Feeling Cheated and Rewarding Gameplay. The difference between utilizing a Loop hole and Strategic Team Oriented Gameplay.

essentially what you are saying is Who cares if you feel cheated because 1 team or 1or2 players are focusing on a Loop Hole to Invalidate the Experience of everyone else in the lobby. If its an option, they should use it. (you can argue whether or not its a loop whole, but its certainly a miss step from 343, ruining the balance)

And if all you care about is the current game mechanics and think that if its possible it should be ulitized, FINE. You can go have fun playing MW2 and think youre a smart player for standing at a mortar point, one man army noobtubing B from various spawn points, preventing a team from capturing it the entire game, calling in a nuke, and pretend that its a valid method because you can win.

Currently the Bases dont provide enough points. If they did and the Warden was removed completely, without changing anythign else, it would be nearly perfect. It would become CoD Domination with Side Objectives. Side Objectives which can assist in narrowing the lead. so even if a team has 2 Bases, if they arent utilizing their territory, their lead wont be as Dominant. So each boss will be a priority, each base will be a priority. But Neither will trump the other.

So until its changed I suggest Everyone save their sniper rifles for the end. Make sure you have at least 2 people sitting hidden in view of the warden. Especially if its a close game seperated by 100 points. And when his health is nearly depleted, blow his head off and steal the kill, since there is no point in directly fighting him. Let the other team Waste all their time capturing bases and pulling out Multiple tanks. All you need to do is steal their effort to be a “smart” player.

4

> 2757114414746787;3:
> > 2533274808386392;2:
> > due to your team not properly controlling the area behind him, then it was good playing on their part. Like any other boss, he is meant to be a tug of war that can turn the tide of the battle at any point.
>
>
> So its my teams fault for Enemy is Camping in their Bases Over Watch Spawn which we have no ability to enter? Cool, I hope i get into every single game you play, so i sit in there with a sniper rifle and 4 shot his back for the win Every single time.
>
> The issue im bringing up is the difference between Feeling Cheated and Rewarding Gameplay. The difference between utilizing a Loop hole and Strategic Team Oriented Gameplay.
>
> essentially what you are saying is Who cares if you feel cheated because 1 team or 1or2 players are focusing on a Loop Hole to Invalidate the Experience of everyone else in the lobby. If its an option, they should use it. (you can argue whether or not its a loop whole, but its certainly a miss step from 343, ruining the balance)
>
> And if all you care about is the current game mechanics and think that if its possible it should be ulitized, FINE. You can go have fun playing MW2 and think youre a smart player for standing at a mortar point, one man army noobtubing B from various spawn points, preventing a team from capturing it the entire game, calling in a nuke, and pretend that its a valid method because you can win.
>
> Currently the Bases dont provide enough points. If they did and the Warden was removed completely, without changing anythign else, it would be nearly perfect. It would become CoD Domination with Side Objectives. Side Objectives which can assist in narrowing the lead. so even if a team has 2 Bases, if they arent utilizing their territory, their lead wont be as Dominant. So each boss will be a priority, each base will be a priority. But Neither will trump the other.
>
> So until its changed I suggest Everyone save their sniper rifles for the end. Make sure you have at least 2 people sitting hidden in view of the warden. Especially if its a close game seperated by 100 points. And when his health is nearly depleted, blow his head off and steal the kill, since there is no point in directly fighting him. Let the other team Waste all their time capturing bases and pulling out Multiple tanks. All you need to do is steal their effort to be a “smart” player.

Don’t really think you knew this, but you can assassinate Warden Eternal to actually secure kill almost with a 100% chance. From what you are saying, it seems that you guys completely forgotten about it and depleted the health so low that a lone enemy can stole the kill with a single fuel rod shot is simply a horrendous play by your team. Perhaps you should stop complaining and start learning? As for my team, I usually will have half the team holding off the enemy team while the other half is attacking warden, once his health hits the letter ‘r’, we assassinate him. Warden is a very good way to actually increase the tension for a close game. For example, if your game is tied and you nearly lost, but warden spawns and your whole team rush to the warden and fight together to achieve the kill and turn the game over, it just brings a great new experience to the game.

All in all, the Warden is a great end game target, if the enemy team stole Warden from you, it is a great play by them, and you shouldn’t be complaining about Warden and instead change the tatics you used. For example, this situation is the same for league of legends, where the game is close and your team is contesting for baron. If the enemy stole it, it isn’t the baron fault, but your team’s fault. Hell, it’s like you even have the option to smite the -Yoink!- boss (assassination).

You state that the bases give no points, but isn’t that the point In which the bases are so close to bosses that give you points? Thus you need to actually put in effort to earn those points and also keep the enemy team away? the centre base give access too the legendary bosses and the 2 armories give access to the 25VP bosses. IF you are losing a game and stole warden to win, you would feel great. what gives you the right to take it from others because the opposite happened?

5

First I’ve heard about being able to assassinate Warden. I’m going to try it sometime.

As for you pretty much stating “It’s your teams fault for getting his health so low”, I mean, how dare they try to kill a boss. Sheesh. You’re supposed to just leave them there all game, and kill the players! /SARCASM

I do get what he’s trying to say, and I agree, Warden as a end game is horrible. Most of the time I’m JUST at level 8, or 9 and then I get the message “Warden Eternal has just arrived”, the -Yoink- that I’ve had to kill 7 times in campaign, and over 200 times in War zone already, the king of recycled content. It would be nice to enjoy that level 8 and over rank for a little while longer other than fight a boss I already had enough of during the Campaign.

6

I feel like ive gotten responses from 2 exact opposite people. 1 a player that gets carried, and another that is good and plays with a full team. speaking from 2 different angles, both missing the point.

If I had a team of competent players, the objective would be to destroy the core in under 5 minutes. the Warden would not even be a factor.
if i were a player that gets carried, id be fine stealing every opportunity.

however im normally the person at the top of my team playing Solo, Carrying the rest of the randoms, and ive found that in these matches the value of bases and the value of bosses do fit their role when only 5% of games end in a Core being destroyed. The game is usually decided based on who kills the first boss for 150 points and who kills the warden.

I just had a game where even tho we dominated them the whole game, since they got the kill shot on the first boss we spend the rest of the game behind. Constantly capturing and losing their armory, while killing Ai along the way. Eventually we were up by 100. Tho like always, its right when the Warden spawns. And like always our lead quickly vanishes as they yoink the kill right from under us. This time I was waiting with a sniper rifle, but didnt expect one of my brilliant teammates to hide right on in the open, getting themselves killed which brought attention to my position. gg teammates, bye ensured victory.

id be happy if there was a Warzone variant that had No bosses or Ai. So its completely with in my power to wreak their team and no have to fear of random Marines spawning in front of me magically dropping grenades or Random bosses dying because Billy dropped his controller, throwing a grenade, and killing the warden.

“IF you are losing a game and stole warden to win, you would feel great.”
What I feel in the moment does not represent how I feel about the context of that situation. In the same way Im happy when I perfectly kill someone, but I feel like they got cheated when im aware that I missed but the game gave it to me anyway. Id much rather us both die. I want the game to be fair above all Else. I want the effort of a team to be rewarded. Not Cheesed to win.

7

> 2533274889132764;5:
> I do get what he’s trying to say,

…Rebalance points. That essentially my Entire point.
Make Bases more significant contributors to your team’s score, while they currently only act as a spawn point. (the Larger Bosses Spawn in Plain sight, so there’s no point to taking it for closer spawns to them.)

I dont appreciate that a team can hold map control for the majority of the match, and because of a few kills they lose the game.

8

Mannnnnn warzone has tons of issues my biggest problem so far is that the team that caps the middle point is almost always guaranteed the win. Trying to recap a point is borderline impossible as after killing five camping in their base they all respawn like 10 secs later but it take 20 to 30 secs just to get the cap. I agree with you on the warden too I’ve seen it happen a lot where the team with 2 scorpions is absolutely demolishing him only to have the other team hit him with a rocket or sniper right at the end. I think they really need to vary spawns for the bosses as well because the bosses always spawn in the same spots it gets really monotonous and boring

9

> 2533274807005095;8:
> Mannnnnn warzone has tons of issues my biggest problem so far is that the team that caps the middle point is almost always guaranteed the win. Trying to recap a point is borderline impossible as after killing five camping in their base they all respawn like 10 secs later but it take 20 to 30 secs just to get the cap. I agree with you on the warden too I’ve seen it happen a lot where the team with 2 scorpions is absolutely demolishing him only to have the other team hit him with a rocket or sniper right at the end. I think they really need to vary spawns for the bosses as well because the bosses always spawn in the same spots it gets really monotonous and boring

you can do it with a SMG or a AR or a Pistol…

we need solutions to this, its a pretty obvious problems to anyone who can give a second though.

10

> 2732317809657592;9:
> > 2533274807005095;8:
> > Mannnnnn warzone has tons of issues my biggest problem so far is that the team that caps the middle point is almost always guaranteed the win. Trying to recap a point is borderline impossible as after killing five camping in their base they all respawn like 10 secs later but it take 20 to 30 secs just to get the cap. I agree with you on the warden too I’ve seen it happen a lot where the team with 2 scorpions is absolutely demolishing him only to have the other team hit him with a rocket or sniper right at the end. I think they really need to vary spawns for the bosses as well because the bosses always spawn in the same spots it gets really monotonous and boring
>
>
> you can do it with a SMG or a AR or a Pistol…
>
> we need solutions to this, its a pretty obvious problems to anyone who can give a second though.

Do what kill the warden with a pistol? I mean yea but that’s not usually what I see happen its mostly on guy from the other team does a rocket suicide run gets of one rocket and gets the kill. Idk maybe implement. A system that tracks the amount of players near warden the more players there grants an ever higher damage bonus so if a team has say 5 players near him they get a damage bonus

11

> 2533274807005095;10:
> > 2732317809657592;9:
> > > 2533274807005095;8:
> > > Mannnnnn warzone has tons of issues my biggest problem so far is that the team that caps the middle point is almost always guaranteed the win. Trying to recap a point is borderline impossible as after killing five camping in their base they all respawn like 10 secs later but it take 20 to 30 secs just to get the cap. I agree with you on the warden too I’ve seen it happen a lot where the team with 2 scorpions is absolutely demolishing him only to have the other team hit him with a rocket or sniper right at the end. I think they really need to vary spawns for the bosses as well because the bosses always spawn in the same spots it gets really monotonous and boring
> >
> >
> > you can do it with a SMG or a AR or a Pistol…
> >
> > we need solutions to this, its a pretty obvious problems to anyone who can give a second though.
>
>
> Do what kill the warden with a pistol? I mean yea but that’s not usually what I see happen its mostly on guy from the other team does a rocket suicide run gets of one rocket and gets the kill

i see more of the opposite… its usually a guy spamming a automatic…

12

> 2732317809657592;11:
> > 2533274807005095;10:
> > > 2732317809657592;9:
> > > > 2533274807005095;8:
> > > > Mannnnnn warzone has tons of issues my biggest problem so far is that the team that caps the middle point is almost always guaranteed the win. Trying to recap a point is borderline impossible as after killing five camping in their base they all respawn like 10 secs later but it take 20 to 30 secs just to get the cap. I agree with you on the warden too I’ve seen it happen a lot where the team with 2 scorpions is absolutely demolishing him only to have the other team hit him with a rocket or sniper right at the end. I think they really need to vary spawns for the bosses as well because the bosses always spawn in the same spots it gets really monotonous and boring
> > >
> > >
> > > you can do it with a SMG or a AR or a Pistol…
> > >
> > > we need solutions to this, its a pretty obvious problems to anyone who can give a second though.
> >
> >
> > Do what kill the warden with a pistol? I mean yea but that’s not usually what I see happen its mostly on guy from the other team does a rocket suicide run gets of one rocket and gets the kill
>
>
> i see more of the opposite… its usually a guy spamming a automatic…

Read that edit I put on my last one

13

You guys need to play more MOBAs if you think stealing Warden from under your nose is cheap

cough Siege Monster cough

14

> 2533274883849234;13:
> You guys need to play more MOBAs if you think stealing Warden from under your nose is cheap
>
> cough Siege Monster cough

I dont wanna play mobas that’s why I’m playing halo

15

> 2732317809657592;9:
> > 2533274807005095;8:
> > Mannnnnn warzone has tons of issues my biggest problem so far is that the team that caps the middle point is almost always guaranteed the win. Trying to recap a point is borderline impossible as after killing five camping in their base they all respawn like 10 secs later but it take 20 to 30 secs just to get the cap. I agree with you on the warden too I’ve seen it happen a lot where the team with 2 scorpions is absolutely demolishing him only to have the other team hit him with a rocket or sniper right at the end. I think they really need to vary spawns for the bosses as well because the bosses always spawn in the same spots it gets really monotonous and boring
>
>
> you can do it with a SMG or a AR or a Pistol…
>
> we need solutions to this, its a pretty obvious problems to anyone who can give a second though.

i would never want that system in place. i can only imagine the cheesy tactics that would arise.

It would be a race to see who can Spawn the Most Tanks, with the secondary objective of Who can Blowup as many Tanks to steal their points.

With Tanks being so easy to kill, its all just skipping around the main problem of that boss rewarding to many points. With the added problem of having so much health that the first party to engage is likely not going to be the group to kill it. Likely the 3rd of 4th group of people, with some random waiting with a high damage weapon to steal the kill.

Id much rather have 2 wardens spawn with less health. to be easy kills like all the other bosses. but again, rewarding significantly less points.

honestly i wouldnt even care if someone stole it if i knew they were just bonuses.
but since they require so much effort to kill and valuable resources to even put a dent in, having them easily stolen is bs.
It would be like, If there was a system in place where i could hide in a neutral base while the enemy team captured it, and if i killed them, I pick up where they left off capturing the base. so if they are at 90%, and I kill them, Im at 90% in capturing the base.

just as yesterday I setup a warthog in a ditch so no one could see me. an Enemy Banshee spawned, and I started firing, the 2 people next to me also shot. Right before it blew up and enemy sniped it. They got all the points.

idk, have More Enemy Fodder to kill for lower rewarders. But its Nonsense as it is now, that I will take a base kill 10 people, then having them all constantly respawning on me endlessly, so that when I finally do capture it, I get 1 point every 3 seconds for holding the base. When instead I could just camp high valued bosses with a sniper rifle, spartan laser, plasma caster, rocket launcher, Tank and get 100-150 points instantly. screw bases, screw map control, steal kills to win.

16

I love the way the warden fight tilts the game

17

I feel like people are still missing a proper solution to the OP’s woes. What needs to be done is a simple algorithm for determining which team earns the points for a boss kill. I’ve had this happen many a time. My team will do all the work, then some random enemy player comes around the corner and spams the boss with small arms fire to steal the kill. It’s to easy to steal the boss kill. It should go to whichever team put in more effort. Most would say it should go to the team that did the most damage, but if one team does 51% damage and then ignore the boss, and the other team does the rest of the work for nothing, that isn’t fair either. I feel like an algorithm that takes into consideration the amount of damage done by each team over the course of a certain amount of time. For example, whichever team did the most damage over the past 20 seconds to the bosses death earn the kill, since they put in more effort to kill the boss and not damage him.

18

> 2533274887968151;17:
> I feel like people are still missing a proper solution to the OP’s woes. What needs to be done is a simple algorithm for determining which team earns the points for a boss kill. I’ve had this happen many a time. My team will do all the work, then some random enemy player comes around the corner and spams the boss with small arms fire to steal the kill. It’s to easy to steal the boss kill. It should go to whichever team put in more effort. Most would say it should go to the team that did the most damage, but if one team does 51% damage and then ignore the boss, and the other team does the rest of the work for nothing, that isn’t fair either. I feel like an algorithm that takes into consideration the amount of damage done by each team over the course of a certain amount of time. For example, whichever team did the most damage over the past 20 seconds to the bosses death earn the kill, since they put in more effort to kill the boss and not damage him.

that seems like the solution the other guy was presenting.

there really isnt a good way to determine effort with a boss like that. Other than counting the damage done, but that comes with the same problem as the other guy. It becomes a Race to How many tanks a team can spawn. Or how many power weapons a team can produce to out damage the other team for a sum of points that blows out most games. The Points are the problem, the Health the boss has creates a separate problem.

The Points Screw the Game
The Health Encourage High Damage Kill Stealing.
Its the same for nearly every HIgh Point Boss.

Here is a possible Solution.
2 Wardens Spawn on opposite sides of the center structure. 1 Red, 1 Blue.
Red cant Hurt Blues Warden, Blue cant Hurt Reds Warden.
The Wardens can hurt everyone.

If one Warden Dies, they both Die.
This way teams can try to halt the others progress by killing one another, but they can not contribute to the kill.
He will be resistance to most damage, except pression damage to the face and back (weakest point).
Encouraging Teamwork and Accuracy and Not an Arms Race of who can pull out the biggest Guns.
I would like a Points Reduction, but if this is implemented at least both side have a chance.

19

Holy Hell, I literally Had the Most Boring Defeat yet.

I hardly ever saw an enemy trying to capture a base, they just hid inside tunnels with Ghosts and Spartan Lasers, Camping Each AI spawn point. Killing it in seconds, with a Tank camping our Vehicle spawn. With their Armory Contest nearly the whole time, and my team holding 2 bases, they still won 1000-670… I guess im playing this game type 100% wrong. It really is “screw bases”, I should only be camping boss spawns. Its Literally All that needs to be done… that is so boring

20

> So its my teams fault for Enemy is Camping in their Bases Over Watch Spawn which we have no ability to enter? Cool, I hope i get into every single game you play, so i sit in there with a sniper rifle and 4 shot his back for the win Every single time.

If your team knows that enemies are camping their bases, then they should focus on getting the bosses. You know, points to win? Like I said before, the point of the game isn’t to capture bases, those are just one of many strategies to help your ultimate goal : victory. If running into the enemy’s base and dying isn’t working for you, then yes, hold your base and get bosses.

> The issue im bringing up is the difference between Feeling Cheated and Rewarding Gameplay. The difference between utilizing a Loop hole and Strategic Team Oriented Gameplay.
>
> essentially what you are saying is Who cares if you feel cheated because 1 team or 1or2 players are focusing on a Loop Hole to Invalidate the Experience of everyone else in the lobby. If its an option, they should use it. (you can argue whether or not its a loop whole, but its certainly a miss step from 343, ruining the balance)

And again, if you feel cheated for having your Warden Eternal kill taken from you by the enemy, it’s really your issue to solve. They were smart, stayed back, and pounced in at the last moment. It’s smart playing, which happens in every game. If you don’t like that, then maybe you and your team should focus on getting both the Warden Eternal and clearing the area of enemy players. Don’t go blaming your bad playing on other people or on the game. It’s entirely your fault for not playing smartly. It’s not a loophole at all. Like the person said, it’s similar to the Baron in League of Legends. If the enemy gets it and uses it to win? Smart play on their part. No, Halo is not a MOBA, but Warzone is a team-oriented objective gametype.

In short, if you feel cheated, it’s your problem. Reflect on your game and figure out what you need to do to win next time.

> And if all you care about is the current game mechanics and think that if its possible it should be ulitized, FINE. You can go have fun playing MW2 and think youre a smart player for standing at a mortar point, one man army noobtubing B from various spawn points, preventing a team from capturing it the entire game, calling in a nuke, and pretend that its a valid method because you can win.

What? I’m afraid I don’t get the reference. I’ve never played Modern Warfare 2, so I have no idea what you’re rambling on about.

> Currently the Bases dont provide enough points. If they did and the Warden was removed completely, without changing anythign else, it would be nearly perfect. It would become CoD Domination with Side Objectives. Side Objectives which can assist in narrowing the lead. so even if a team has 2 Bases, if they arent utilizing their territory, their lead wont be as Dominant. So each boss will be a priority, each base will be a priority. But Neither will trump the other.

The point of Warzone isn’t to capture bases and get points from them, it’s about balancing your priorities. You need to get boss kills, player kills, bases, all together. if you’re losing on the points side, focus on the bases and then get the core. Warden Eternal shows up and the enemy is about to win? Kill him and try to get victory. If you want to lay Call of Duty Dominion, then go to that. Or maybe play Strongholds in Arena, if that’s what you want.

> So until its changed I suggest Everyone save their sniper rifles for the end. Make sure you have at least 2 people sitting hidden in view of the warden. Especially if its a close game seperated by 100 points. And when his health is nearly depleted, blow his head off and steal the kill, since there is no point in directly fighting him. Let the other team Waste all their time capturing bases and pulling out Multiple tanks. All you need to do is steal their effort to be a “smart” player.

Hey look, you figured out a strategy! I’m proud of you, friend, you learned to use the enemy’s strength against them.