Wanna know why JIP happens?

Because people quit.

343, don’t allow people to back out of lobbies once it shows voting options.

343, make strict quit bans.

Join in progress MIGHT have helped an older Halo because those games didn’t promote quitting! You couldn’t just back out whenever you wanted to! You were punished when you quit!

THOSE THINGS STILL NEED TO HAPPEN!

JIP should be a last resort. Instead it promotes the thing it is trying to solve!

You know how you could have gotten valuable feedback on this prior to launch? A -Yoinking!- BETA!

JIP is even worse with CSR. As much as I once disliked JIP, I now loathe it!

Fix your system. Disallow people to back out of lobbies once a match has been made, and ban people who quit!

thankyouthatisall. #H5BetaOrBust

Join in progress should not be in the game. A better solution would be if anyone is missing from a team, an opposing player can volunteer to fill in the gap.

Even without JIP, I would make the same request as I do in my original post.

> Join in progress should not be in the game. A better solution would be if anyone is missing from a team, an opposing player can volunteer to fill in the gap.

No way. Making an opposing player who’s probably on the winning team be forced on the other team is terrible idea. Join in Progress should Stay in the game. But needs to give us an option to turn it on or off at will.

Making people not want to quit is the real point there.

If we must have this stupid progression system, then take away credits for quitting. The amount of effort spent in finding a solution for when people do quit, would have been better spent thinking of a way that makes them not want to in the first place. Pro active > Reactive.

You’re not going to remove quitting.

Gears of War added AI bot fillers for its quitters in combination with certain playlist JIP.
CoD and BF, except for certain playlists/servers, have always been JIP.

Ghost Recon and R6 both had JIP between rounds until later installments had “Halo-type” constant respawning not stopping till a total score was reached. Now it they both fully support JIP except for clan matches.

The players that are complaining about JIP and its effects also seem to be the ones that hate quitters just as much.
For these players I suggest LAN/tournaments and full-party gaming only. You have the power to make your experience more enjoyable. Relying on the developer to fix every problem is why we have JIP in the first place.

Either roll in a full team in competitive minded playlists if you’re so competitive or stop treating things with such polarity.
https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/players/thy%20reapermc/haloreach/fileshare#!/?section=RenderedFilm&GameMode=0&SearchDate=7&SortBy=2&view-select=Tile&startIndex=0… JIP has its place. Clan and other directly competitive playlists such places it should not be.

I want to agree with you on full party gaming… But that literally means you need to have two full teams. If you have only 1 full team you can still get JiP’d

Can’t stop all quitting, very true however the current system breeds this attitude in the community that quitting is acceptable. I hope the quit ban becomes less severe but more easily triggered. Something like
1 quit in a 24 hr period, no consequence
2 quits in a 24 hour period, 5 min ban (if something like emergency phone call, you might need 5 min anyway)
3 quits, 10 min ban (after 3 in a day, this is a slap on the wrist, can play SpOps then back to Wargames)
4 quits, 30 min ban (deserved ban)
5 quits, 60 min ban (well deserved ban)

JiP’s current implementation is awkward, one that may help.

Use of black screen. If a player disconnects, all players should enter black screen until a replacement is found. That way no team is ever unfairly outnumbered in gameplay

Some form of JiP might be nice but one thing is certain… Current version isn’t pleasant.

> You’re not going to remove quitting.
>
> Gears of War added AI bot fillers for its quitters in combination with certain playlist JIP.
> CoD and BF, except for certain playlists/servers, have always been JIP.
>
> Ghost Recon and R6 both had JIP between rounds until later installments had “Halo-type” constant respawning not stopping till a total score was reached. Now it they both fully support JIP except for clan matches.
>
> The players that are complaining about JIP and its effects also seem to be the ones that hate quitters just as much.
> For these players I suggest LAN/tournaments and full-party gaming only. You have the power to make your experience more enjoyable. Relying on the developer to fix every problem is why we have JIP in the first place.
>
> Either roll in a full team in competitive minded playlists if you’re so competitive or stop treating things with such polarity.
> https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/players/thy%20reapermc/haloreach/fileshare#!/?section=RenderedFilm&GameMode=0&SearchDate=7&SortBy=2&view-select=Tile&startIndex=0… JIP has its place. Clan and other directly competitive playlists such places it should not be.

I’m not saying we can get rid of quitting. I’m saying we should stop promoting it. The current system tells players it is okay to quit, when it shouldn’t be,

I’m also not saying JIP is all bad or that I want to get rid of it. I’m saying it would function in its interned purpose of alleviating quitting, if it didn’t at the same time promote that same behavior.

Tim’s solution is going in the right direction. Players shouldn’t be able to quit twice withing a time frame without being told that behavior is frowned upon. Motion also has a good idea, becuase it s less likely to reduce population while still letting players know they are in the wrong.

with players quitting less frequently JIP actually serves a purpose, becuae currently when players are dropped into a game the obvious purpose is to balance a one sided match, but the unintended consequence is the dropped in player feels unfairly punished and they also quit. This means the person being dropped in is unsatisfied ny the matchmaking process as well as his intended teammates who are still stuck in an uneven match.

Under a system that punishes quitters, uneven matches will occur less frequently, and therefore join in progess will occur less frequently, making for a much healthier matchmaking system.

This helps everyone.

> You’re not going to remove quitting.
>
> Gears of War added AI bot fillers for its quitters in combination with certain playlist JIP.
> CoD and BF, except for certain playlists/servers, have always been JIP.
>
> Ghost Recon and R6 both had JIP between rounds until later installments had “Halo-type” constant respawning not stopping till a total score was reached. Now it they both fully support JIP except for clan matches.

None of the games you mentioned have ever had a ranking system where you rank down when you play bad/lose. So your entire argument is pointless.

> You’re not going to remove quitting.
>
> Gears of War added AI bot fillers for its quitters in combination with certain playlist JIP.
> CoD and BF, except for certain playlists/servers, have always been JIP.
>
> Ghost Recon and R6 both had JIP between rounds until later installments had “Halo-type” constant respawning not stopping till a total score was reached. Now it they both fully support JIP except for clan matches.
>
> <mark>The players that are complaining about JIP and its effects also seem to be the ones that hate quitters just as much.</mark>
> <mark>For these players I suggest LAN/tournaments and full-party gaming only. You have the power to make your experience more enjoyable. Relying on the developer to fix every problem is why we have JIP in the first place.</mark>
>
> Either roll in a full team in competitive minded playlists if you’re so competitive or stop treating things with such polarity.
> https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/players/thy%20reapermc/haloreach/fileshare#!/?section=RenderedFilm&GameMode=0&SearchDate=7&SortBy=2&view-select=Tile&startIndex=0… JIP has its place. Clan and other directly competitive playlists such places it should not be.

Wow that is a completely unreasonable request. When my friends aren’t on I’m EXPECTED to just play FFA? Play customs because matchmaking JIP is annoying?

“In order to enjoy Halo 4 we recommend you have at least 3 other friends playing with you at all times so you don’t feel the infuriating effects of our broken JIP system.”

And It’s not like we don’t support JIP it’s just implemented horribly. Like I’ve been added to the roster on the losing side of the game almost all the time. This last game I got added to in infinity slayer - blue 460, red 240. guess where I got added? The lag made it unplayable and one guy on the blue team had 22 kills.

And fyi most of the games I quit from are the insane JIP games I’ve been added to where the opposing team is wiping the floor with the team I joined. That or the lag is unbearable.

Again if this game had decent servers maybe people wouldn’t quit so much.

And yes, we do expect the developers to fix glaring problems with the game. They added a system into Halo that wasn’t present in the past and offers more problems than quitting in past games ever did. The developers have the power to make my experience more enjoyable.

I’ll take JIP over the habitual quitting in Reach any day of the week.

-I’ve joined winning team plenty of times.
-I’ve seen plenty of losing scenarios turn into upsets due to JIP.
-Most of the time I JIP early in the game and the score difference is largely irrelevant.

The pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion. Bad games happen, but in my experience it’s nowhere near the frequency that the Waypoint rants would have you believe.

The only way to directly address quitting effectively, would be to enforce a no-tolerance policy with severe consequences like Valve does with CS:GO ranked matches. I can’t even imagine what these forums would look like if 343i were to take that approach.

I have an idea to greatly deter quitting.

You can quit out of a game, but you must write a 200 word essay on why you found it necessary to quit out. It also must be typed with the Xbox 360 controller.

I guarantee you that will make everyone rethink their choices.

When you quit 5 times you lose every perk and loadout weapon unlocked and you have to place first in 2 games of either rumble pit, infinity slayer, or BTB to get them back. The only exception is if the game is real laggy ( hopeful the system can recognize that in the near future.). If your going to quit and leave me in 1v1 match of CTF or team brs the you can lose all your precious weapons and perks.

> > You’re not going to remove quitting.
> >
> > Gears of War added AI bot fillers for its quitters in combination with certain playlist JIP.
> > CoD and BF, except for certain playlists/servers, have always been JIP.
> >
> > Ghost Recon and R6 both had JIP between rounds until later installments had “Halo-type” constant respawning not stopping till a total score was reached. Now it they both fully support JIP except for clan matches.
>
> None of the games you mentioned have ever had a ranking system where you rank down when you play bad/lose. So your entire argument is pointless.

I’ll admit I can’t look up GoW at the moment but I know I had high 2k ELO ratings in the Tom Clancy games.

> When you quit 5 times you lose every perk and loadout weapon unlocked and you have to place first in 2 games of either rumble pit, infinity slayer, or BTB to get them back. The only exception is if the game is real laggy ( hopeful the system can recognize that in the near future.). If your going to quit and leave me in 1v1 match of CTF or team brs the you can lose all your precious weapons and perks.

When working with automated ban systems… Simpler is probly best. Making exceptions for laggy games will be complicated. The consequences you suggest may also be difficult…

> > When you quit 5 times you lose every perk and loadout weapon unlocked and you have to place first in 2 games of either rumble pit, infinity slayer, or BTB to get them back. The only exception is if the game is real laggy ( hopeful the system can recognize that in the near future.). If your going to quit and leave me in 1v1 match of CTF or team brs the you can lose all your precious weapons and perks.
>
> When working with automated ban systems… Simpler is probly best. Making exceptions for laggy games will be complicated. The consequences you suggest may also be difficult…

I know man i just always hated being stuck in a game on halo 3 where my team quit and i did not want to because i already had a -------0 from quitting other solo team games and I hated lagging out either because of my internet or bad hosts. Bottom line, i think that quitting because you did not get what you wanted is dishonorable and cowardly even when it is people picking the same -Yoink-, and god knows i understand having to see people pick COMPLEX 3 TIMES IN A ROW!

> Join in progress MIGHT have helped an older Halo because those games didn’t promote quitting!

Given the black market for Halo 3 50s?

It’s arguable that yes: H3 promoted quitting.

> You couldn’t just back out whenever you wanted to!

Yes you could.

> You were punished when you quit!

You were only punished in Ranked for loosing a TrueSkill rank. It was only after the TU did quitting from Social even have a negative impact since it degraded your Playlist Rank which, for some people, was meaningless.

> You know how you could have gotten valuable feedback on this prior to launch? A -Yoinking!- BETA!

No.

People were already decrying JIP before H4 even came out. Months out. Having a Beta wouldn’t have fixed this.

> I’ll admit I can’t look up GoW

None of the Gears games had a ELO/TrueSkill ranking system like H2/H3. Gears 1 didn’t have a Ranking System. Gears 2, 3 and Judgment had Progression Systems instead.

Gears 3 did punish you for quitting out of Ranked Matches with very stiff EXP penalities. Gears 3 Ranked also has a lower population across the board compared to Social.

I can agree with lessening the incentive for people to quit.

But JIP is a good feature that I’ve always wanted. Yes it can suck at times, and it could use some work, but at least I don’t constantly have 4v2 matches.

> > You’re not going to remove quitting.
> >
> > Gears of War added AI bot fillers for its quitters in combination with certain playlist JIP.
> > CoD and BF, except for certain playlists/servers, have always been JIP.
> >
> > Ghost Recon and R6 both had JIP between rounds until later installments had “Halo-type” constant respawning not stopping till a total score was reached. Now it they both fully support JIP except for clan matches.
> >
> > <mark>The players that are complaining about JIP and its effects also seem to be the ones that hate quitters just as much.</mark>
> > <mark>For these players I suggest LAN/tournaments and full-party gaming only. You have the power to make your experience more enjoyable. Relying on the developer to fix every problem is why we have JIP in the first place.</mark>
> >
> > Either roll in a full team in competitive minded playlists if you’re so competitive or stop treating things with such polarity.
> > https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/players/thy%20reapermc/haloreach/fileshare#!/?section=RenderedFilm&GameMode=0&SearchDate=7&SortBy=2&view-select=Tile&startIndex=0… JIP has its place. Clan and other directly competitive playlists such places it should not be.
>
> Wow that is a completely unreasonable request. When my friends aren’t on I’m EXPECTED to just play FFA? Play customs because matchmaking JIP is annoying?
>
> <mark>“In order to enjoy Halo 4 we recommend you have at least 3 other friends playing with you at all times so you don’t feel the infuriating effects of our broken JIP system.”</mark>
>
> And It’s not like we don’t support JIP it’s just implemented horribly. Like I’ve been added to the roster on the losing side of the game almost all the time. This last game I got added to in infinity slayer - blue 460, red 240. guess where I got added? The lag made it unplayable and one guy on the blue team had 22 kills.
>
> And fyi most of the games I quit from are the insane JIP games I’ve been added to where the opposing team is wiping the floor with the team I joined. That or the lag is unbearable.
>
> Again if this game had decent servers maybe people wouldn’t quit so much.
>
> <mark>And yes, we do expect the developers to fix glaring problems with the game. They added a system into Halo that wasn’t present in the past and offers more problems than quitting in past games ever did. The developers have the power to make my experience more enjoyable.
[/quote]
</mark>
>
> Agree with this!! …but JIP is dumb.If it’s not an option in H5 i’m gunna snap! WORST IDEA EVER! (along with starting with a 1 shot kill weapon,being able to back out of lobbies and the game starts with unbalanced teams,vehicles are a joke,starting with plasma gernades/pistols…ok i better stop there)

> If it’s not an option in H5 i’m gunna snap!

JIP in Social.
No JIP in Ranked.

That was difficult.