So let’s pit these two species against each other to see who would win.
Round 1: Wrestling Match.
Both sides get armour (considering that we don’t know what degree Sangheili combat harnesses augment strength), but no shields.
Fight takes place in a boxing ring.
Round 2: Firefight.
The Brute is armed with a Brute Shot, Spiker and Brute Plasma Rifle.
The Elite is armed with a Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol and Energy Sword.
Fight takes place in Grand Central Station, 50m apart.
Who wins?
Brute both times.
Round 1: Brute, hands down, no contest. Undeniable strength advantage and they’re much faster than given credit for.
Round 2: This is a much more even fight, I’d place money on the Sangheili.
In universe, the Plasma Pistol is a MONSTER and an Energy Sword rips a Brute Shot to shreds if it came to close quarters.
Round 1: Brute, same as put human against gorilla.
Round 2: Elite runs to Brute and cuts it half whit energy sword.
how is it fair that the elites get swords but the brutes don’t get hammers
> 2533274826614653;3:
> Round 1: Brute, hands down, no contest. Undeniable strength advantage and they’re much faster than given credit for.
>
> Round 2: This is a much more even fight, I’d place money on the Sangheili.
> In universe, the Plasma Pistol is a MONSTER and an Energy Sword rips a Brute Shot to shreds if it came to close quarters.
Well, in regards to round two, the Elite should quickly use an overcharged plasma pistol shot on the Brute’s shields quickly and then either lay down enough plasma pistol shots to burn the Brute to death or switch to a more effective weapon to kill the Brute before the Brute could lay 2-3 shots (half a magazine) on the poor Elite, which, as seen in Halo: First Strike, could tear a Spartan-II’s midsection in half. Do note that the Spartan is in MJORNIR Mark V Armour, so 2-3 shots bypass both shields and armour. If the Elite takes the same amount of (direct) hits, he’s done for.
So I’d say the Brute could possibly kill the Elite a lot faster than the Elite could kill the Brute, considering the Elite needs to rely on an overcharged plasma pistol shot to kill the Brute quickly, especially if he wants to bypass the Brute’s shields, then switch to a more effective weapon to take out the Brute unless the Elite chooses to shower the Brute in plasma pistol bolts, which will take a few seconds considering the plasma pistol needs to cool down. Long enough for the Brute to lay out 3 or more Brute shot rounds at the Elite.
And BTW, Brutes do utilise Energy Shields, as seen in Halo: Contact Harvest and Halo: Last Light. And in these cases Brute Power Armour doesn’t collapse after enough firepower as seen in Halo 3/ODST, with Brute’s lying dead while still equipped with armour. The strength of the shields are, arguably, stronger than the Elites shields, given showings we have witness in the franchise, both in cutscenes and novels. Examples include a Brute Captain’s shields beginning to faulted only after taking fire from two MA5Bs at point blank range (ie. Taking 120 rounds before signs of faulting) in Contact Harvest, and Elite Zealot shields falling in 20 rounds (or less) from an MA37 in Halo: Reach (Winter Contingency), with an Ultra in Halo: Reach falling to less in Lone Wolf. If we take into account a Brute Chieftain’s shields, the Sangheili will have to be incredibly reliant on the plasma pistol otherwise he won’t kill the Brute [Chieftain]. That’s taking into account Chieftain shielding (which could shrug off the concentrated fire from 24 Marines with MA5Bs and BR55s in Contact Harvest).
Now if we consider tactical cunning and intellect on the individuals, that is greatly dependant on the individual Elite or Brute. While the Brutes are commonly referred to as savage apes, they have on several occasions proven otherwise (performing ambushes, preparing charges, Castor being a competent field commander), being shown that they are not mindless savages. And while the Elites have proven intelligent in battle on some occasions, there have also been cases of them doing… Less logical actions, such as charging against 3 Spartans armed with nothing but spears and no shields, while exiting out of active camo tens of metres away from the Spartans, while charging with spears (I have never exactly like that Cutscene due to those reasons). As I said, tactical cunning is complex, being almost entirely dependant on the individual in question and something that be ignored in this discussion.
In in regards to a close quarters fight, the Brute is still stronger than the Elite, has greater reach than the Elite and as fast if not faster than the Elite, which would leave the Brute with a few advantages in a close quarters fight despite the Elite being armed with an energy sword.
So overall, I’d say the Brute wins. Especially when we consider shield strength into account, along with the other advantages the Brute’s have over the Elites (from the Brute shot, to hand to hand combat, to size, weight and reach).
> 2535450453445225;4:
> Round 1: Brute, same as put human against gorilla.
>
> Round 2: Elite runs to Brute and cuts it half whit energy sword.
What stops the the Brute from pumping enough Brute Shots rounds at the charging Elite? And you do realise that’s not a very good tactic to use in battle right? Dropping everything you have, turn on your sword and rush at the Brute screaming bloody murder is a viable tactic to you? Then again, we’ve seen numerous Elites do so in the past.
> 2533274905541250;5:
> how is it fair that the elites get swords but the brutes don’t get hammers
Because, while the Sword just cuts (and burns) an opponent, a Gravity Hammer can cause shockwaves that can send the Elite flying off ten of metres away just from mere proximity from the point of impact. A Brute Captain with a Hammer can shred through Councilors and Field commanders at the same time, just being armed with a Hammer (while the Elites have Swords, Needlers, Plasma Rifles etc.). I’m trying to make this a fair fight, not a spite thread.
The Sword was also given the even the playing field in close quarters combat.
You do realise that Sanghelli are massively skilled and agile warriors?
Saying that Brutes would win is like saying Mike Tyson would have won against Bruce Lee…
Brute in round one, but elite in nearly every other scenario. More experience, smarter.
> 2567453894718125;8:
> You do realise that Sanghelli are massively skilled and agile warriors?
>
> Saying that Brutes would win is like saying Mike Tyson would have won against Bruce Lee…
So? Brutes are simply more physically capable than Elites.
Saying an Elite would beat a Brute at close quarter combat is like saying Bruce Lee would have won against a silverback gorilla…
> 2567453894718125;8:
> You do realise that Sanghelli are massively skilled and agile warriors?
>
> Saying that Brutes would win is like saying Mike Tyson would have won against Bruce Lee…
Hey look, massively skilled and agile Warriors. /sarcasm.
This isn’t the only showing, just the most notable. If that’s not enough, look at Jul 'Mdama’s death scene (oh god those terrible bodyguards), Halo 5’s opening cinematic and arguably Lone Wolf.
To repeat myself, taking into account skill and intellect in battle between two species shouldn’t really be taken into account as both species are composed of geniuses and idiots.
> 2533274861878751;9:
> Brute in round one, but elite in nearly every other scenario. More experience, smarter.
See above. Accounting for intellect and intelligence is heavily dependant on the individual in question. Just look at the difference between an inexperienced minor and Thel 'Vadam. Look at the difference between the Tartarus (an obedient dog) and Castor (a cunning and competent commander).
I think Brute both times
but dont underestimate your oponute
Elites have an advantage in dodging hits, jumping vertical, and kicking. Brutes have the advantage of sheer strength and weight. One or two hits from a brute and the elite is dead, but its harder to hit an elite. An elite would take a few more hits to kill a brute, but it would be much easier to hit a brute as brutes are larger and less flexible than elites.
Round 1: brute have a easy victory.
Round 2: The smarter will win, but I bet in the brute
The Mike Tyson vs Bruce Lee analogy is actually pretty fitting. As far as physical abilities go, Sangheili and Jiralhanae aren’t ridiculously different from one another, its just that the Sangheili would have to work much harder for a win than a Jiralhanae would. Ignoring the criteria for the scenarios presented (they’re strangely specific and honestly wouldn’t prove much), in an open-arena hand-to-hand combat scenario, the Sangheili would have to be incredibly agile in order to dodge the Brute’s attacks while maintaining their ability to consistently land significant blows to the Brute. On the flip side, if the Jiralhanae lands one solid hit on the Elite the fight is over. The Sangheili would get knocked to the ground, and unless they exploit the Jiralhanae’s cockiness or find some other trick to win, they just won’t be able to recover from the blow. Even if they get back on their feet, the Sangheili would move slower and hit softer.
If you were to introduce adverse terrain into the mix, such as slopes or rocks or trees or bushes, the Sangheili would inherently gain more of an advantage than the Brute. Even assuming both parties are equally intelligent and militarily inclined, the Jiralhanae is at a massive disadvantage when it comes to stealth, stalking, and ambushes (without the assistance of technology, that is). Their weight, height, and scent make them obvious targets, which would prevent them from setting up quick ambushes, and would make keeping track of them easy to maintain. Furthermore, while a Jiralhanae could outrun a Sangheili on flat land, I’m certain that a Sangheili can pivot easier without losing significant speed, while the Jiralhanae’s weight and all-fours running style would lead to them repeatedly running into obstacles. Granted this all implies that the added advantage of stealth and surprise would give the Sangheili a winning advantage, but even then the Sangheili would be incapable of taking down a Brute in a single ambush without leaving themselves vulnerable to the Brute countering and taking the Sangheili down. If anything, the Sangheili would still be forced to adopt a hit-and-run tactic if they were presented in a situation with absolutely no weapons available.
from just their biology it is pretty easy to say Brutes all day in unarmed combat and Elites in a firefight. Even with basic weapons I’d still say Elites due to speed and body shape.
Hand to Hand
Brutes come from a much higher gravity planet so even if they were built in 100% the same form they would likely be much stronger; we are talking 2 earth g for Brutes and 1.3 earth g for Elites (so says halo wiki). - Shoulder shape of the Brutes (like pretty much all non-human great apes) is built for strength/knuckle running, generally faster than bipedal movement however like the Protoss Elites are Digitigrades where Brutes are still Plantigrades; Brutes are no question stronger but Elites might have better straight line speed, however it could go either way, so I’d say speed is a moot point. Considering also both species likely wouldn’t run or do anything but straight up fight - Elites are from a much dried climate and have many features that imply lowered energy loss; like the skin being reptile like and running bipedal so in terms of stamina they may have more - Brutes have shorter limbs which are in theory going to be harder to grab and exploit breaks or other martial arts the Elite may know; like bending a long piece of metal vs short and stubby wood, even though one is much “stronger” the shape makes it more vulnerableFirefight
Elites are much smarter so in terms of tactics they are going to wreck -Yoink-, even weak humans were known to hold out against Brutes; plus the lore pretty much confirmed the Elites beat them back into their home system with little issue even during their own internal civil war. - The fact that they never knuckle walk and have shoulders like a human means anything related to weapon operation will be easier. Throwing, reloading, and anything else used in distance combat will favor the elites by a huge amount; literally the Brutes would likely not be able to throw a grenade past 30-40 ft TOPS and they would have the accuracy of Leela from Futurama.I mean its basically like slightly smarter Chimps trained to use modern firearms vs a normal human, even if they did “organize” and fight together they’d also randomly get pissed off throw down their weapon and try to run up/rip your -Yoink- off as they bite your face. Yeah we are smarter/have technology and would wreck them even with basic weapons like throwing spears we’d have a major advantage BUT in unarmed combat the chimp could rip part of you off and throw it away.
> 2533274920425916;18:
> from just their biology it is pretty easy to say Brutes all day in unarmed combat and Elites in a firefight. Even with basic weapons I’d still say Elites due to speed and body shape.
>
> Hand to Hand
>
> - Brutes come from a much higher gravity planet so even if they were built in 100% the same form they would likely be much stronger; we are talking 2 earth g for Brutes and 1.3 earth g for Elites (so says halo wiki).
> - Shoulder shape of the Brutes (like pretty much all non-human great apes) is built for strength/knuckle running, generally faster than bipedal movement however like the Protoss Elites are Digitigrades where Brutes are still Plantigrades; Brutes are no question stronger but Elites might have better straight line speed, however it could go either way, so I’d say speed is a moot point. Considering also both species likely wouldn’t run or do anything but straight up fight
> - Elites are from a much dried climate and have many features that imply lowered energy loss; like the skin being reptile like and running bipedal so in terms of stamina they may have more
> - Brutes have shorter limbs which are in theory going to be harder to grab and exploit breaks or other martial arts the Elite may know; like bending a long piece of metal vs short and stubby wood, even though one is much “stronger” the shape makes it more vulnerable
> Firefight
>
> - Elites are much smarter so in terms of tactics they are going to wreck -Yoink-, even weak humans were known to hold out against Brutes; plus the lore pretty much confirmed the Elites beat them back into their home system with little issue even during their own internal civil war.
> - The fact that they never knuckle walk and have shoulders like a human means anything related to weapon operation will be easier. Throwing, reloading, and anything else used in distance combat will favor the elites by a huge amount; literally the Brutes would likely not be able to throw a grenade past 30-40 ft TOPS and they would have the accuracy of Leela from Futurama.
> I mean its basically like slightly smarter Chimps trained to use modern firearms vs a normal human, even if they did “organize” and fight together they’d also randomly get pissed off throw down their weapon and try to run up/rip your -Yoink- off as they bite your face. Yeah we are smarter/have technology and would wreck them even with basic weapons like throwing spears we’d have a major advantage BUT in unarmed combat the chimp could rip part of you off and throw it away.
I really wouldn’t say the Elites are that much smarter, at all. Do I really need to bring up the Halo Wars cutscenes again, or Jul 'Mdama’s death scene (how Vale jumps over one of the Zealots, who then proceeds to drop his weapon for some reason and charges itself off the edge)? The opening cutscene of Halo Wars shows us that normal Marines can kill Elites in droves. Numerous Elite Honour Guards for some reason threw away their stealth advantage and charges against three Spartans with nothing but spears. At one point an Elite simply grabs a Spartan’s shotgun and stands there doing nothing, instead of doing something more practical like tackling the Spartan, disarming the Spartan or literally anything else but stand there. And there are several cases of Jiralhanae expressing intellect and cunning, such as Castor from Last Light and that Brute Chieftain Cathegus from one of the past Canon Fodders. As I’ve mentioned already, taking intellect and cunning of an entire species doesn’t work like an RPG’s racial attributes, given that both species are composed of individuals ranging from brain dead idiots (Halo Wars Cutscenes) to geniuses (R’tas 'Vadum and Thel 'Vadam).
How do the Brutes have shorter limbs than the Elites? Last time I checked their arms reach the same position on their bodies and given that the Brutes are much larger than the Elites on average and much taller than them, that means the Brute’s Limbs are in fact longer than the Elites.
And regarding speed, here’s something from Halo: First Strike.
“There was a flicker on his motion sensor-just ahead. It vanished.
John held up his hand. Blue team froze.
His motion detector was clear… A shadow moved around the same pillar John used for cover. It moved faster than an Elite-as fast as John.”
That “shadow” was a Brute.
brute for 1st round cause a brute is way stronger
elite for 2nd