vehicles should have regenerating health

Simply put, as they are now in Reach, vehicles are almost not worth getting in.

Warthogs- are nearly useless, and offer little more than armed transport.

Tanks- Giant targets. I’ve killed a tank with 2 frags before.

Falcons- Are too slow to do anything.

Ghosts- Ruined. There is no point in getting in one.

Banshees- Easy targets, it’s a miracle if they last 2 minuets before they get destroyed.

Mongoose- Ironically, these weak transports haven’t suffered much, mainly because they’re only used for transportation.

Vehicles feel like death traps. They die so easily, because everything leaves lasting damage. Snipers, DMRs, ARs, Shotguns, Grenades, Pistols- EVERYTHING kills them. This completely ruins the fun that used to be Halo’s vehicles.

Let’s use a great example: Anybody wonder why Blood Gulch isn’t fun anymore? It’s because BG was about vehicles. Now, Warthogs blast off into orbit with 1 nade, tanks can be DMR’d from a safe distance, anything in the air will be put on the ground with only a few clips, and anything on the ground will be sent in the air (in pieces) with very little effort. Did you know there is a Plasma Launcher on Hemorage? Not that it matters, seeing as how vehicles are rarely a threat. They all die instantly!

Then, after all the vehicles have died, the gameplay turns into long range DMRs, and one lucky -Yoink- having a sniper, easily doming people from across the map, and man handling himself because he thinks that makes him awesome.

Let’s try a different example. Valhalla. On Valhalla, you had a Banshee, a warthog, and a few mongi. Because teamshoting a warthog was difficult, a smart team would rush for Splaser. Once one team owned the splaser, the other team would be forced to change tactics, or run a high risk of being part of a multikill.

Here’s a good example of how a match of Valhalla plays out.

Red team is less skilled than Blue team.

Blue team rushes Splazer, Red Team beats them to it though.

Blue Team falls back

Blue teams Banshee is about to finish Red teams’s banshee when Blue Banshee get’s shot down by Splazer.

Blue Hog finishes Red Banshee, but then Blue Hog gets Splazered as well

Blue falls back to base, Red runs hogs.

Blue team uses grenades, Plasma Pistol, and Rocket Pod, and manage to destroy the enemy Warthog.

At this point, all the vehicles are out of play, but only because Red team was fast enough to get the AV weapons, and Blue team was skilled enough to kill the hog. The Red team has the lead because they utilized their vehicles, and controled the map better.

Let’s assume the teams were equally matched now. Red Team would have probably gotten 20-30 kills with the warthog, because Blue team couldn’t simply land a few shots per life on the hog, and slowly take it down. The only way to stop it would be to use tactics, teamwork, and skill.

This might not make complete sense, I did type this really fast, and I do expect grammar and spelling mistakes, please forgive them for now, and I’ll edit later.

>Vehicles
>Health
Hmmm… well i understand what your trying to do but perhaps it would be better to simply improve the durability of vehicles.

I dont think vehicles should heal themselves. I do think they should have better armor vs small arms fire. Just weighing in my opinion.

Halo 3 had great vehicle combat. Stick with that model. … Please =(

The Halo 3 vehicle system where the vehicle health was mostly linked to player health was near perfect. With few tweaks and a good arsenal of anti-vehicle weapons it would be a perfect choice for Halo 4.

While I agree with you that vehicles are too weak, I do not agree with you that they’re “not worth getting in” Warthogs are the dominant vehicle on Hemorrhage, they’re still beast at killing people, just they move around too much when shot, and they’re not tough enough.

The Banshee is also a Paper dragon, very brittle, but is very very lethal, especially if the pilot has perfected the dive bomb strategy.

You are certainly 100% correct about Ghosts, they really are terrible in Reach.

I don’t think the solution to fixing vehicles is making them have health regeneration, I think that’s OP tbh, it would eliminate the point in exiting combat to replace your current vehicle, if you get me? A long with other things.

I think the correct way to fix vehicles is to make them Like Halo 2/3’s, Halo 3 had perfect vehicle combat in my eyes.

> Simply put, as they are now in Reach, vehicles are almost not worth getting in.
>
> Warthogs- are nearly useless, and offer little more than armed transport.
>
> Tanks- Giant targets. I’ve killed a tank with 2 frags before.
>
> Falcons- Are too slow to do anything.
>
> Ghosts- Ruined. There is no point in getting in one.
>
> Banshees- Easy targets, it’s a miracle if they last 2 minuets before they get destroyed.
>
> Mongoose- Ironically, these weak transports haven’t suffered much, mainly because they’re only used for transportation.
>
> Vehicles feel like death traps. They die so easily, because everything leaves lasting damage. Snipers, DMRs, ARs, Shotguns, Grenades, Pistols- EVERYTHING kills them. This completely ruins the fun that used to be Halo’s vehicles.
>
> Let’s use a great example: Anybody wonder why Blood Gulch isn’t fun anymore? It’s because BG was about vehicles. Now, Warthogs blast off into orbit with 1 nade, tanks can be DMR’d from a safe distance, anything in the air will be put on the ground with only a few clips, and anything on the ground will be sent in the air (in pieces) with very little effort. Did you know there is a Plasma Launcher on Hemorage? Not that it matters, seeing as how vehicles are rarely a threat. They all die instantly!
>
> Then, after all the vehicles have died, the gameplay turns into long range DMRs, and one lucky -Yoink!- having a sniper, easily doming people from across the map, and man handling himself because he thinks that makes him awesome.
>
> Let’s try a different example. Valhalla. On Valhalla, you had a Banshee, a warthog, and a few mongi. Because teamshoting a warthog was difficult, a smart team would rush for Splaser. Once one team owned the splaser, the other team would be forced to change tactics, or run a high risk of being part of a multikill.
>
> Here’s a good example of how a match of Valhalla plays out.
>
> Red team is less skilled than Blue team.
>
> Blue team rushes Splazer, Red Team beats them to it though.
>
> Blue Team falls back
>
> Blue teams Banshee is about to finish Red teams’s banshee when Blue Banshee get’s shot down by Splazer.
>
> Blue Hog finishes Red Banshee, but then Blue Hog gets Splazered as well
>
> Blue falls back to base, Red runs hogs.
>
> Blue team uses grenades, Plasma Pistol, and Rocket Pod, and manage to destroy the enemy Warthog.
>
> At this point, all the vehicles are out of play, but only because Red team was fast enough to get the AV weapons, and Blue team was skilled enough to kill the hog. The Red team has the lead because they utilized their vehicles, and controled the map better.
>
> Let’s assume the teams were equally matched now. Red Team would have probably gotten 20-30 kills with the warthog, because Blue team couldn’t simply land a few shots per life on the hog, and slowly take it down. The only way to stop it would be to use tactics, teamwork, and skill.
>
> This might not make complete sense, I did type this really fast, and I do expect grammar and spelling mistakes, please forgive them for now, and I’ll edit later.

Sorry, don’t have time to read the thread. I will comment based on the title.

Would you really want someone with a scorpion to never get blown up?

> While I agree with you that vehicles are too weak, I do not agree with you that they’re “not worth getting in” Warthogs are the dominant vehicle on Hemorrhage, they’re still beast at killing people, just they move around too much when shot, and they’re not tough enough.
>
> The Banshee is also a Paper dragon, very brittle, but is very very lethal, especially if the pilot has perfected the dive bomb strategy.
>
> You are certainly 100% correct about Ghosts, they really are terrible in Reach.
>
> I don’t think the solution to fixing vehicles is making them have health regeneration, I think that’s OP tbh, it would eliminate the point in exiting combat to replace your current vehicle, if you get me? A long with other things.
>
> I think the correct way to fix vehicles is to make them Like Halo 2/3’s, Halo 3 had perfect vehicle combat in my eyes.

I agree.

You realize that Reach vehicles regenerate health in a manner similar to the player, right?

> While I agree with you that vehicles are too weak, I do not agree with you that they’re “not worth getting in” Warthogs are the dominant vehicle on Hemorrhage, they’re still beast at killing people, just they move around too much when shot, and they’re not tough enough.
>
> The Banshee is also a Paper dragon, very brittle, but is very very lethal, especially if the pilot has perfected the dive bomb strategy.
>
> You are certainly 100% correct about Ghosts, they really are terrible in Reach.
>
> I don’t think the solution to fixing vehicles is making them have health regeneration, I think that’s OP tbh, it would eliminate the point in exiting combat to replace your current vehicle, if you get me? A long with other things.
>
> I think the correct way to fix vehicles is to make them Like Halo 2/3’s, Halo 3 had perfect vehicle combat in my eyes.

I very much disagree with you, aside from Mongoose, Warthog is the most useless vehicle on Hemorrhage. Assuming there’s a sniper on the opposing team, using a Warthog is a suicide. You could very well just jump off the cliff on red base.

The Banshee on the other hand is very interesting, it’s either terribly unfair, or terribly underpowered, completely dependant on the situation, not on the skill of the user. I’d say the bomb needs a huge nerf, but the durability of the vehicle needs to be much higher, the tricks also needs to be fixed, they’re just horribly unfair.

Ghost on the other hand, is the best working vehicle in Reach aside from Revenant. It’s only slightly too weak. In fact, I have many times ended up with a kd spread of +20 or higher when I have been using the Ghost.

But I would say the general problem of vehicles in Reach is the durability. No matter how good you are, no matter how much you can avoid taking damage, at some point you have taken enough damage to be able to be killed with two DMR shots, that’s just horrible design. In fact, explosives should be the only thing capable of damaging a vehicle with the exception of Gravity Hammer. That said, regular weapons should, of course still be able to harm the players in the vehicle. But explosives should be the only things capable of blowing up a vehicle.

> You realize that Reach vehicles regenerate health in a manner similar to the player, right?

No they don’t. They’re health is proportional to the amount of damage taken, so a crappy-looking Warthog actually is crappy.

It sounds cool, but it ended up horrible with the crappy gameplay we have now.

I do agree that Halo 3 had it right, although I prefer a Falcon to a Hornet. So much easier and more fun to fly. The only thing that needs to happen is for campaign Falcons to be ported to multiplayer. I don’t really know why this is hasn’t happened; people complain about balance but custom games need consideration, and with the vehicle health how it is…hard to unbalance a vehicle.

One thing I will say–what’s with the limited boosts in Ghosts and Banshees? I could understand the Banshee having a limit to flips and rolls, but it doesn’t–only the boost. And the Ghost? The only thing I can say is wtf. It’s primary attack is splattering, and with AL plus the completely BS splattering system (full-boosting Ghost won’t kill, but a stationary tank will splatter you if you run into it) plus the DMR it’s completely useless and a great way to die fast. Way to ruin my favorite vehicle.

The improved manueveability is good though (:

I agree. I love Reach’s vehicle palette - fun to drive, fun to splatter, controls are great, they respond really well. But it’s annoying knowing that, no matter how good you are and no matter how well you outplay the other team, small-arms damage will build up and eventually wreck your vehicle. Halo is supposed to be about skill, if you die it’s because you got outplayed by a superior opponent. Where is the skill in occasionally spraying AR/DMR at a Revenant? The damage tables are perfect, but the vehicle health should regenerate. Say, it takes twice as long to start and twice as long to go from damaged to fully healed as shields do.

As for how this would be displayed, scratches and parts that fall off shouldn’t magically repair, but fire and smoke should dampen down and eventually go out. Which would be awesome, I could drive round in my beat-up Revenant and show off how many fights I’ve survived :smiley:

On the other hand in Halo 2/3 a team can absolutely dominate with vehicles.

So I agree with most people that keep the health but make the vehicles much more resistant against normal weapons. Doesn’t make sense that sniper pushes Warthog and wrecks it too.

> I agree. I love Reach’s vehicle palette - fun to drive, fun to splatter, controls are great, they respond really well. But it’s annoying knowing that, no matter how good you are and no matter how well you outplay the other team, small-arms damage will build up and eventually wreck your vehicle. Halo is supposed to be about skill, if you die it’s because you got outplayed by a superior opponent. Where is the skill in occasionally spraying AR/DMR at a Revenant? The damage tables are perfect, but the vehicle health should regenerate. Say, it takes twice as long to start and twice as long to go from damaged to fully healed as shields do.
>
> As for how this would be displayed, scratches and parts that fall off shouldn’t magically repair, but fire and smoke should dampen down and eventually go out. Which would be awesome, I could drive round in my beat-up Revenant and show off how many fights I’ve survived :smiley:

I love this idea.

> I dont think vehicles should heal themselves. I do think they should have better armor vs small arms fire. Just weighing in my opinion.

this. I’m sick of gettin my vehicle destroyed by pistols and assult rifles.

All the vehicles need in my opinion is a boost to it’s small arms fire resistance. That is all it needs.

I have actually found as a whole now, that Getting a lot of kills under a warthog now is a testament to skill. Halo 3 you could run away, Reach, the driver needs to really think and avoid mass fire. Evasive manuevers, pulling out when the Gunner is hurt etc. You can get alot done with a hog on hemmorage when you have a good driver, not so much if the Driver and Gunner are not coordinated.

I’d rather not see a return to Halo 3 where you only had to run away from a fight and recharge your shields to keep fighting. It made the Warthog far far easier to operate because you knew you could survive any fight by running away. Reach is a completely different story in that regard.

I don’t want vehicles to regenerate health but your example on Valhalla is perfect and highlights how I feel vehicle destruction should be. There should be an anti-vehicle weapon on each map that has multiple vehicles, this should be the only weapon capable of causing major dmage to the vehicles. Any weapon that is not anti-vehicle should do very little towards destroying them and unlike the DMR/Sniper on Reach, they most definately should not be able to throw a Warthog off course and send it into a death spin.

To the post above, I do see what you mean about not just recharging your shields but how Reach does it is too much for my likings. I’ve had too many matches where a single sniper shot ruins the hog too much to safely drive it. Out of the total times I die while in a hog:
1/20 is due to an anti-vehicle weapon
3/20 is due to the Wraith/Scorpian
4/20 is caused by a sniper shot causing a huge death role finnished off by the enemy hog/revenant
4/20 is caused by the nemy hog/revenant unassisted by a sniper
8/20 is due to DMR fire either scredding the hog to pieces or causing a death spin which leads to me then getting killed by the DMR

1/20 is way too low for the actual anti-vehicle weapon, it should be atleast 5/20.

> Simply put, as they are now in Reach, vehicles are almost not worth getting in.
>
> Warthogs- are nearly useless, and offer little more than <mark>armed transport</mark>.

there’s a use right there.

> Tanks- Giant targets. <mark>I’ve killed a tank with 2 frags before</mark>.

i call bs. vid or it didnt happen.

> Falcons- <mark>Are too slow to do anything</mark>.

you obviously dont know how to fly one. i can get a falcon to pretty high-speeds. heres a video showing just how useful a falcon can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsv3th8U5Ks

> Ghosts- Ruined. <mark>There is no point in getting in one</mark>.

why not?

> Banshees- <mark>Easy targets, it’s a miracle if they last 2 minuets before they get destroyed.</mark>

you dont know how to fly this, either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHxd0vvq1Cc

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

having vehicles regenerate health is stupid, let alone unrealistic. i understand this is sci-fi, but still. its just a dumb idea.

I don’t mean to be rude, but mabey you are saying this because you aren’t good at using vehicles? If done properly you can live an entire match in a vehicle. They should be kept the same. That way vehicles have a skill gap. Also recharging health would be over-powered, especialy in a tank. Just my opinion.

> > Simply put, as they are now in Reach, vehicles are almost not worth getting in.
> >
> > Warthogs- are nearly useless, and offer little more than <mark>armed transport</mark>.
>
> there’s a use right there.
>
>
>
> > Tanks- Giant targets. <mark>I’ve killed a tank with 2 frags before</mark>.
>
> i call bs. vid or it didnt happen.
>
>
>
> > Falcons- <mark>Are too slow to do anything</mark>.
>
> you obviously dont know how to fly one. i can get a falcon to pretty high-speeds. heres a video showing just how useful a falcon can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsv3th8U5Ks
>
>
>
> > Ghosts- Ruined. <mark>There is no point in getting in one</mark>.
>
> why not?
>
>
>
> > Banshees- <mark>Easy targets, it’s a miracle if they last 2 minuets before they get destroyed.</mark>
>
> you dont know how to fly this, either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHxd0vvq1Cc
>
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> having vehicles regenerate health is stupid, let alone unrealistic. i understand this is sci-fi, but still. its just a dumb idea.

No dude, skill has nothing to do with it, and that’s the problem. Showing instances of people kicking -Yoink- doesn’t disprove my statement, it shows mismatched teams. You CANNOT effectively use vehicles in Reach unless the other team is bad. Halo has had awesome vehicles since day 1, and I’d hate to see them devolve into disposable power ups.