Vehicle Health in Halo 4

Games Other Halo
1

One thing Reach did well was the change to a separate vehicle health system. In earlier Halos taking down a Hog or a banshee against a competent team was nearly impossible and because of this vehicles were OP. the vehicle health system in Reach shifts the focus of BTB from keeping vehicles alive and controlling laser to teamshooting and playing aggressive for map control.

This was a good switch, and I hope to see it remain in Halo 4. The only thing I would change about vehicles is to increase their damage output if they are able to be taken down by a teamshot so that they act similar to power weapons in a 4v4.

Evidence of Broken Vehicles in H3:
Sandbox
Standoff

2

> One thing Reach did well was the change to a separate vehicle health system. In earlier Halos taking down a Hog or a banshee against a competent team was nearly impossible and because of this vehicles were OP. the vehicle health system in Reach shifts the focus of BTB from keeping vehicles alive and controlling laser to teamshooting and playing aggressive for map control.
>
> This was a good switch, and I hope to see it remain in Halo 4. The only thing I would change about vehicles is to increase their damage output if they are able to be taken down by a teamshot so that they act similar to power weapons in a 4v4.

It’s not often that I agree with Cosssta. But when I do. I thank him.

3

Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.

I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.

4

I agree. There should be a legitimate reason to choose to be a foot soldier in BTB.

5

> Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
>
> I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.

I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.

6

> > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> >
> > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
>
> I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.

I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.

In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.

7

> > > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> > >
> > > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
> >
> > I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.
>
> I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.
>
> In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.

Why does that feel awful? It allows everyone to play a part in btb rather than just the vehicle users.

8

> > > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> > >
> > > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
> >
> > I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.
>
> I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.
>
> In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.

It feels balanced.

9

> > > > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> > > >
> > > > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.
> >
> > I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.
> >
> > In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.
>
> Why does that feel awful? It allows everyone to play a part in btb rather than just the vehicle users.

Correction; it keeps the open spaces occupied by vehicle combat, and keeps the buildings and under/overgrounds full of people.

Besides, BTB is about vehicle-based combat, if you want infantry battles I’d recommend Team Slayer or Team Objective. If it’s crucial to you that you’re fighting lots of people with lots of people, I recommend Squad Battle.

10

No Scorpion Tank should be able to be destroyed by a -Yoinking- sniper rifle, also no aircraft should be able to be destroyed by DMRs. Theres anti vehicle weapons for a reason.

11

> > > > > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> > > > >
> > > > > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.
> > >
> > > I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.
> > >
> > > In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.
> >
> > Why does that feel awful? It allows everyone to play a part in btb rather than just the vehicle users.
>
> Correction; it keeps the open spaces occupied by vehicle combat, and keeps the buildings and under/overgrounds full of people.
>
> Besides, BTB is about vehicle-based combat, if you want infantry battles I’d recommend Team Slayer or Team Objective. If it’s crucial to you that you’re fighting lots of people with lots of people, I recommend Squad Battle.

even though i fully agree with what you’re saying, a point is made here

if vehicle health was switched back to it’s former glory, only Pro snipers and heavy weapons can take them down,
leave them reach style, and BTB isn’t what it should be

it should be somewhere in the middle
for example, strong vehicle armor, with an exploitable weak point (that, i might add, does not require a skilled sniper to exploit)

one can notice fuel tanks in the back of the new warthog model
so one could guess that taking a few good shots at the gas tanks could cause a serious, but not fatal explosion, doing a lot of damage to the vehicle, while not completely destroying it

i like strong vehicles that aren’t torn to shreds, flipped like a cardboard box, and explodified by a SPAWN-IN weapon

likewise, i like vehicles that can be destroyed such that it is actually a challenge to drive my warthog around strategically, rather than a blind road rage (like most reach drivers)

BTW, whats with the green text?

12

> > > > > > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.
> > > >
> > > > I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.
> > > >
> > > > In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.
> > >
> > > Why does that feel awful? It allows everyone to play a part in btb rather than just the vehicle users.
> >
> > Correction; it keeps the open spaces occupied by vehicle combat, and keeps the buildings and under/overgrounds full of people.
> >
> > Besides, BTB is about vehicle-based combat, if you want infantry battles I’d recommend Team Slayer or Team Objective. If it’s crucial to you that you’re fighting lots of people with lots of people, I recommend Squad Battle.
>
> even though i fully agree with what you’re saying, a point is made here
>
> if vehicle health was switched back to it’s former glory, only Pro snipers and heavy weapons can take them down,
> leave them reach style, and BTB isn’t what it should be
>
> it should be somewhere in the middle
> for example, strong vehicle armor, with an exploitable weak point (that, i might add, does not require a skilled sniper to exploit)
>
> one can notice fuel tanks in the back of the new warthog model
> so one could guess that taking a few good shots at the gas tanks could cause a serious, but not fatal explosion, doing a lot of damage to the vehicle, while not completely destroying it
>
> i like strong vehicles that aren’t torn to shreds, flipped like a cardboard box, and explodified by a SPAWN-IN weapon
>
> likewise, i like vehicles that can be destroyed such that it is actually a challenge to drive my warthog around strategically, rather than a blind road rage (like most reach drivers)
>
> BTW, whats with the green text?

I applaud your thinking. Add a big nasty “Ghost fuel tank” to every vehicle would allow infantry to fight bad drivers with ease, creating a new skill to master for both sides.

As for the green text, I don’t know. I started doing it after they had created the site, and I guess I’ve just kept at it since it’s been known as my “thing” now.

13

I can’t stand the Reach system or the DMR/Sniper absolutely destroying vehicles.

The Halo 3 system was a near perfect blend of the vehicle control of CE and the destructibility of H2.

All the Reach system does is leave a bunch of half used vehicles lying around because even mildly damaged vehicles are basically rolling/hovering/flying coffins. It removes vehicle pilot skill from the equation. However in Halo 3 damaged vehicles can be just as deadly as newer ones if the pilot has the skill but they are much more vulnerable to destruction than so one stray sticky, or burst from a power or heavy weapon and the vehicle and occupants are toast.

If I manage to drive a damaged warthod through a gauntlet of enemy fire and get it back to our base I shouldn’t explode from one stray DMR round from across the map if I have full shields. I do feel that it took a little to much fire to get down to a more damaged state.

14

I agree, although I think vehicle health could be increased slightly.

15

> The Halo 3 system was a near perfect blend of the vehicle control of CE and the destructibility of H2.

Except the destructibility goes out the window when a vehicle user can retreat, recharge his shields and regain the vast majority of his vehicle’s health back.

Vehicles need a mechanic that limits their extended usage. Power Weapons have ammo. Vehicles should have static health. Infinite or regenerating ammo Power Weapons would be blatantly overpowered in Team Slayer. The same is true of vehicles in BTB.

> However in Halo 3 damaged vehicles can be just as deadly as newer ones if the pilot has the skill but they are much more vulnerable to destruction than so one stray sticky, or burst from a power or heavy weapon and the vehicle and occupants are toast.

If that happens.

On Valhalla the only weapon that could arguably touch vehicles was the Laser. PP, Stickies could all be outranged since they were projectiles that had travel time. Missile Pod could be dodged by Banshees and requires pretty specific position to guarantee a kill. The amount of cover on the map made it largely useless against ground vehicles.

Once the winning team in the opening rush secure Laser, they destroyed your vehicles and with no way to counter their vehicles, you were sunk. You’re stuck in your base, no options for counter attack as your weapons are useless and your vehicles either destroyed or stolen.

Being able to deal chip damage over time allows for you to make an eventual come back. Chip damage further rewards good drivers/pilots with extended play time in vehicles while punishes those that just try to Rambo in.

> If I manage to drive a damaged warthod through a gauntlet of enemy fire and get it back to our base I shouldn’t explode from one stray DMR round from across the map if I have full shields. I do feel that it took a little to much fire to get down to a more damaged state.

Why not?

You’re vehicle is on fire, you have shields, your vehicle does not.

16

> the vehicle health system in Reach shifts the focus of BTB from keeping vehicles alive and controlling laser to teamshooting and playing aggressive for map control.

That does not work in a campaign where your allies work against you and every enemy is a potential hazard for your vehicle.

I say keep vehicle health out of campaign!

One reason why I hate LNoS is because the Wraith is -Yoink-. It’s impossible to defend myself when boarded. I get hit by 20 plasma pistol overcharged bolts. My allies use it for splattering all the time. I get hit by friendly Wraith mortars when I’m not even in combat. The pressure from concussion rifle spamming Elites and especially enemy dropships is immense.

And there’s no other vehicles on the map so this is the only thing I have to work with!

Trying to take control of the beach (and I have managed that a few times) isn’t worth it when you have allies that blow you up with their rockets, Noble Team members/Pelican turrets one shotting you for accidental betrayals, gunners taking forever to kill a Jackal.

I spent hours building blockades only for them to eventually fall apart thanks to the constantly spawning dropships! No reoccurring checkpoints in this area means I have to restart all over again!

/rant

17

Please 343 no more vehicles made out of tin foil please!

18

I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.

19

> > > > Vehicle combat in Halo: Reach is next to non-existent. But the “OPness” of the tanks in Halo 3 cannot be argued.
> > > >
> > > > I say we use the shield system from Halo 3 on light vehicles, and put the health on the tanks and such.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t like it if a hog couldn’t be taken down by a teamshot. Rather than your suggestion, I think the hog should receive a buff in terms of damage output. IMO vehicles should be glass cannons rather than a juggernaut turret.
> >
> > I disagree. Players*(with the appropriate weapons)* are the glass cannons, the vehicles are vehicles. I’d much rather have vehicles with a diminished damage output and increased health than vice versa.
> >
> > In Halo: Reach we got a flying Rocket Launcher*(the Banshee)* that’s torn to shreds by DMR fire, and we got tanks you can snipe to pieces. It feels awful.
>
> Why does that feel awful? It allows everyone to play a part in btb rather than just the vehicle users.

with reach, its either over powered or underpowered, both extremes and never inbetween which is a problem.

i agree that seperate health system for vehicles is much better, just the utility weapons need to do less damage to them then in reach for them to be usefull instead of a moving target.

20

> it should be somewhere in the middle

I agree, I find myself agreeing with both sides; Cosssta for wanting teamshots to actually matter against Hog teams and you for wanting a skillgap to driving efficiently.

One compromise I was thinking of was a system where the first 60% (ish) of your vehicle’s health is fixed like Reach, everytime you get hit you permanently lose some vehicle health. Once the damage goes beyond 60% the vehicle’s health can recharge back to that 40% mark (not 100%) if you get out of danger for X amount of time. This is similar to Halo 3’s system but it should be more dramatic. When your Hog is damaged, the driver and gunner should start taking more damage (more than Halo 3). In Halo 3 the only noticeable difference between a pristine Hog and a badly damaged Hog was that a sticky blew up the entire damaged Hog, whereas it would only partially damage a pristine Hog.

I do want drivers to be punished for barreling towards the entire enemy team without backup. I always hated it when after putting clips into a Hog that they could go around a corner for 5 seconds and basically have a new Hog and completely nullify your damage.

The benefits of this system are:

  1. Mr randy mcherpson can no longer put one DMR shot into your Hog from across the map and blow it up.
  2. You need a well coordinated teamshot to take down a Hog’s last 40% health. You and one other guy might not cut it and let the Hog get away.