Using Armour Abilities as Powerups

Games Other Halo
1

I will start this thread by Clarifying this is not an Armour Abilities hate thread. I am actually intrigued to see whether a class loadout system can coexist inside Halo now it is being done properly but that is not the points of this thread.

At some point the nostalgic Halo fan inside me will (and I am sure I am not alone) compel me to play what I consider Arena Style Halo. No loadouts, no perks, no AA starts, Everyone starting with the same starting weapons with no initial spawning advantages and with all game tilting factors to be gained or lost during gameplay. But by saying I am a fan of Classic Halo multiplayer does not mean I am adverse to change. Some of the new feature being added to the franchise could easily be introduced to Arena style Halo and not to it’s detriment.

Custom options in Reach allowed for AA’s to be used as pickups not as spawn abilities. This fitted Arena because it could be implemented in a similar way to Power Ups and Equipment. But they never really perfectly fitted because once they were picked up they gave a player a permanent unbalanced advantage that they retained until they died.

I would love to see custom options in Halo4 allowing AA’s to be limited/ deplete with usage. For example having Jet packs with limited fuel, single use Regeneration fields ect. This way we can use AA’s in Arena Halo (implemented similar to how they were in Reach’s MLG settings) and not break the sandbox. Also I hope there is an option for allowing AA’s to be dropped by dead players so they can be picked up again.

2

> I am actually intrigued to see whether a class loadout system can coexist inside Halo now it is being done properly but that is not the points of this thread.

I believe it can. I’m currently experimenting with a gametype that does that, while also retaining the Arena style of Halo, but I need more players to test it and give feedback.

> But they never really perfectly fitted because once they were picked up they gave a player a permanent unbalanced advantage that they retained until they died.

I disagree. The item can be picked up by both teams/all players and by focusing on collecting an AA you give up map control and power weapon control. The AA’s are also not fully offensive items and need to be recharged. Thus, knowing the right moment to use them is even more important as you’ll lose the item if you die.

3

> I disagree. The item can be picked up by both teams/all players and by focusing on collecting an AA you give up map control and power weapon control. The AA’s are also not fully offensive items and need to be recharged. Thus, knowing the right moment to use them is even more important as you’ll lose the item if you die.

It kinda worked because AA’s were not overwhelmingly OP, the weapons still had to do the damage, they just gave tactical advantages. AA’s pickups in Reach were the gameplay equivalent of having minor power weapons with unlimited ammo that would disappear upon death or having a custom powerup with no time limit. I think it would be beneficial if there was a cap.

4

> > I disagree. The item can be picked up by both teams/all players and by focusing on collecting an AA you give up map control and power weapon control. The AA’s are also not fully offensive items and need to be recharged. Thus, knowing the right moment to use them is even more important as you’ll lose the item if you die.
>
> It kinda worked because AA’s were not overwhelmingly OP, the weapons still had to do the damage, they just gave tactical advantages. AA’s pickups in Reach were the gameplay equivalent of having minor power weapons with unlimited ammo that would disappear upon death or having a custom powerup with no time limit. I think it would be beneficial if there was a cap.

I thought up on putting a cap on your loadouts. As in like, 1 player can only equip AL at any one time.

5

> I thought up on putting a cap on your loadouts. As in like, 1 player can only equip AL at any one time.

One of the first thing I originally planned on doing when I heard Reach had loadouts was create an infection gametype with several types of zombies i.e. a Tank class that wielded a hammer, moved slowly and could take some serious damage, a Light class that could move quickly, jump higher but could deal and take less damage, a stealth class with the stalker ability ect. and to balance it I would limit how many of each class were allowed on the map at any given time but still allow people to chose their class.

Alas it weren’t to be.

6

Honestly I enjoyed Reach, aside from the “pop and lock” and title updates. I’ll agree though, that Reach’s AAs are well beyond underbalanced and at times it makes the game hard to enjoy.

I really hope 343 has learned from this and puts more effort than Bungie into balancing these new AAs

7

> I will start this thread by Clarifying this is not an Armour Abilities hate thread. I am actually intrigued to see whether a class loadout system can coexist inside Halo now it is being done properly but that is not the points of this thread.
>
> At some point the nostalgic Halo fan inside me will (and I am sure I am not alone) compel me to play what I consider Arena Style Halo. No loadouts, no perks, no AA starts, Everyone starting with the same starting weapons with no initial spawning advantages and with all game tilting factors to be gained or lost during gameplay. But by saying I am a fan of Classic Halo multiplayer does not mean I am adverse to change. Some of the new feature being added to the franchise could easily be introduced to Arena style Halo and not to it’s detriment.
>
> Custom options in Reach allowed for AA’s to be used as pickups not as spawn abilities. This fitted Arena because it could be implemented in a similar way to Power Ups and Equipment. But they never really perfectly fitted because once they were picked up they gave a player a permanent unbalanced advantage that they retained until they died.
>
> I would love to see custom options in Halo4 allowing AA’s to be limited/ deplete with usage. For example having Jet packs with limited fuel, single use Regeneration fields ect. This way we can use AA’s in Arena Halo and not break the sandbox. Also I hope there is an option for allowing AA’s to be dropped by dead players so they can be picked up again.

Thanks for the post. This is way better than that other AA hate thread that up 2 hours ago.

8

Here is another question. Do you think MLG will utilise loadouts and Armour Abilities in Halo 4 at all or even should? Or do you think they will strip the game down, start with BRs, include Carbines/ DMRs only as pickups and go back to classic arena style gameplay. I think the latter is more likely.

9

> Here is another question. Do you think MLG will utilise loadouts and Armour Abilities in Halo 4 at all or even should? Or do you think they will strip the game down, start with BRs, include Carbines/ DMRs only as pickups and go back to classic arena style gameplay. I think the latter is more likely.

They will scrap load-outs and make AA’s pickups for sure.

10

> > Here is another question. Do you think MLG will utilise loadouts and Armour Abilities in Halo 4 at all or even should? Or do you think they will strip the game down, start with BRs, include Carbines/ DMRs only as pickups and go back to classic arena style gameplay. I think the latter is more likely.
>
> They will scrap load-outs and make AA’s pickups for sure.

Hence I think the need for AA options so that AA’s can be better utilised in a way they were not originally intended to be used as powerups.

11

this is intriguing. they are still AAs but they would be like the power ups in H3, and would work well with the arena style halo that everyone seems to love. I personally loved H3 and Reach, different kinds of play that i enjoy. i think this would really work.

12

I would much prefer single-use “armor abilities” or in other words, equipment. These would be pick-ups that you can fight over. I can deal with a guy taking PV, using it once, and having to pick it up again to use it again. This would prevent entire teams from using one ability. I could even deal with a one-use pick-up active camo.

13

> I will start this thread by Clarifying this is not an Armour Abilities hate thread. I am actually intrigued to see whether a class loadout system can coexist inside Halo now it is being done properly but that is not the points of this thread.
>
> At some point the nostalgic Halo fan inside me will (and I am sure I am not alone) compel me to play what I consider Arena Style Halo. No loadouts, no perks, no AA starts, Everyone starting with the same starting weapons with no initial spawning advantages and with all game tilting factors to be gained or lost during gameplay. But by saying I am a fan of Classic Halo multiplayer does not mean I am adverse to change. Some of the new feature being added to the franchise could easily be introduced to Arena style Halo and not to it’s detriment.
>
> Custom options in Reach allowed for AA’s to be used as pickups not as spawn abilities. This fitted Arena because it could be implemented in a similar way to Power Ups and Equipment. But they never really perfectly fitted because once they were picked up they gave a player a permanent unbalanced advantage that they retained until they died.
>
> I would love to see custom options in <mark>Halo4 allowing AA’s to be limited/ deplete with usage.</mark> For example having Jet packs with limited fuel, single use Regeneration fields ect. This way we can use AA’s in Arena Halo (implemented similar to how they were in Reach’s MLG settings) and not break the sandbox. Also I hope there is an option for allowing AA’s to be dropped by dead players so they can be picked up again.

That would be really interesing, I would play custom games with that settings, it sounds like something to be considered.

14

> this is intriguing. they are still AAs but they would be like the power ups in H3, and would work well with the arena style halo that everyone seems to love.

Exactly. That’s my standpoint on the matter and only a few people realize it. AA’s would not have been so hated if they weren’t combined with load-outs. AA’s as pick-ups would bring something new to the table while leaving the core gameplay untouched. Spawning with AA’s drastically changed how things went down in-game – and not for the better either.

15

Just been thinking about how these options could appear in Gametype Options.

Armour Ability Options:
AAs on map- Enabled/ Map Default
AA pick up- Enabled
AA drop upon death- Enabled
AA recharge- Disabled

We might as well need individual AA options so that we can adjust duration and AA strength as to balance the abilities as powerups. For example a single use 5sec Promethean Vision pickup isn’t much of a powerup but a 30sec PV would be fine because that way it is still useful but a player would have to conserve the ability and use the ability sparingly only when it is useful to get the most out of it before it runs out.

16

Monday Night Combat, Hexen, and Team Fortress 2, are entirely class based Arena-to-the-bone shooters. This basically disproves that classes are anti-Arena play.

Heck, even in Quake Team Arena, they implemented “powerups” that spawned inside your team’s base and effectively served as a Class, one was called Scout and made you run faster, but have less health. One called Defense made you slow, but have a ton of health, and one called I think Berserker? Made you slow, but do a ton of damage.

These powerups were permanent until your next death, and you couldn’t pick up a new one once you’d chosen. They were basically classes.

Heck, even in UT, your character species directly affects your stats, giving you boosts to speed, damage, weapon specialties (extra damage/firerate etc with certain weapons), and even special abilities like the later introduced Nightmare’s ability to leech health off of damage dealt.

So next time anyone tries to say Loadouts, AAs, and Perks don’t belong in Arena Shooters, please smack them in the face and remind them that Arena Shooters TRADITIONALLY HAVE stuff like them.

What makes an Arena/Competitive game isn’t everyone being a carbon clone of everyone else, if that was the case Street Fighter would be an EXTREMELY boring game of Ryu vs Ryu over and over.

What makes a game competitive is allowing players to play with their own style/preferences, but with skill being the most important factor in determining winners and losers. And with the vastly nerfed AAs in Halo 4, and the ability to customize your spawn weapons choosing from the basic weapons you probably wouldn’t go out of your way to pick up because they DONT give you any advantages over the ones you normally spawned with. I think Halo 4 will find that balance between skill and expanded sandbox.

17

> Monday Night Combat, Hexen, and Team Fortress 2, are entirely class based Arena-to-the-bone shooters. This basically disproves that classes are anti-Arena play.
>
> Heck, even in Quake Team Arena, they implemented “powerups” that spawned inside your team’s base and effectively served as a Class, one was called Scout and made you run faster, but have less health. One called Defense made you slow, but have a ton of health, and one called I think Berserker? Made you slow, but do a ton of damage.
>
> These powerups were permanent until your next death, and you couldn’t pick up a new one once you’d chosen. They were basically classes.
>
> Heck, even in UT, your character species directly affects your stats, giving you boosts to speed, damage, weapon specialties (extra damage/firerate etc with certain weapons), and even special abilities like the later introduced Nightmare’s ability to leech health off of damage dealt.
>
> So next time anyone tries to say Loadouts, AAs, and Perks don’t belong in Arena Shooters, please smack them in the face and remind them that Arena Shooters TRADITIONALLY HAVE stuff like them.
>
>
> What makes an Arena/Competitive game isn’t everyone being a carbon clone of everyone else, if that was the case Street Fighter would be an EXTREMELY boring game of Ryu vs Ryu over and over.
>
> What makes a game competitive is allowing players to play with their own style/preferences, but with skill being the most important factor in determining winners and losers. And with the vastly nerfed AAs in Halo 4, and the ability to customize your spawn weapons choosing from the basic weapons you probably wouldn’t go out of your way to pick up because they DONT give you any advantages over the ones you normally spawned with. I think Halo 4 will find that balance between skill and expanded sandbox.

I think you are arguing the definition of an Arena Shooter. All your argument serves to prove is that shooters do not all fall strictly into categories and developers often blur the line between styles to create their own individual game. There is no rule that says a game must strictly abide by the ethos of an ‘Arena’ Shooter, a 'Military’or ‘Class based’ Shooter ect. and I would say these features you described actually compromise each games claim of being an Arena shooter but maybe I am wrong, maybe I am confusing what an Arena shooter is. What then should I call this game style ethos I am so fond of? Halo style? Oh wait.

18

I’m not saying I won’t enjoy Halo4 because it has loadouts or that it won’t be competitive. In fact I am very much looking forward to getting my hands on Halo4 what with the new features and a fresh new take on a class based/ Arena hybrid shooter. I am just asking for options. I would even love for 343 to add more loadout options for custom games such that maybe I can make my infection gametype after all. Custom gametypes are supposed to be different than mainstream matchmaking or else what is the point?

19

> What makes an Arena/Competitive game isn’t everyone being a carbon clone of everyone else, if that was the case Street Fighter would be an EXTREMELY boring game of Ryu vs Ryu over and over.

:slight_smile:
To add, AA’s in Reach form merely allow for Ryu (Sprint), Ken (Evade), Akuma (Jetpack), Sakura (Active Camo), Dan (Armour Lock), Sean (Hologram) and Gouken (Drop Shield), and for differences between races like in Unreal where you’d have a Zangief (Juggernaut) versus a Chun-Li (Nightmare) in attribute differences.

There is absolutely nothing with preferring mirror matches. It is unfair to believe that base-line mirror matches are the only way to “compete.”

20

Do you honestly think they can balance…

Camo
Regen
Turrets
JP
Thruster
PV
HS
Holgram?

Testing really needs to be at a high level. Good players are the ones that exploit what is good/bad. Do you really think those at 343 are able to exploit/master each AA and demonstrate how each is OP/UP.

Then repeat for the 2 other perk thingies.