UNSC double standards

This topic is about why Sarah Palmer and John were not court-martialed. They both disobeyed a direct order from a superior officer (regardless of whether he was right or wrong). That’s a court martiable offense.

Now let me say this, John is my favorite character in the Halo series and I believe him disobeying Del Rio was morally right because the Didact was a major threat to Humanity, but a chain of command is a chain of command. You’re not permitted to question and/or disobey orders from a superior officer. Both John and Sarah did this. I understand John is the savior of humanity, but him being a hero doesn’t give him the right to disregard the chain of command. The UNSC can’t just overlook major aspects of a military like the chain of command because of favoritism for a certain individual.

Now that brings me to Palmer, she’s disobeyed a direct order twice now from a superior officer and has yet to be court-martialed. Once when Del Rio ordered her to arrest John and the second time when she disregarded Lasky’s order to stand down. She follows the orders she wants to follow and shows a complete lack of respect for the chain of command and for some reason the UNSC is still allowing her to serve as the commander aboard Infinity. And she’s done nothing heroic like John for the UNSC to overlook it.

It just wreaks of awful writing and quite a lot of double standards going on within the UNSC.

With John, it’s probably just a matter of image. John is THE hero of the Human-Covenant War. How would the UNSC look if their greatest asset and hero was court-martialed? Plus, like you said, his insubordination was for the greater good, and ended up saving the Earth. I think that would earn him some amnesty.

As for Palmer, the Del Rio vs. John situation was awkward for everyone. She could have either arrested John and risked the Didact carrying out his plans unopposed. Or she could have let him go and let him stop the Didact. There was no right or wrong thing to do. Not to mention that John is a hero and she was hesitant to detain him (if she even could).

She disobeyed Lasky’s order, but obeyed Osman’s order, who is ranked much higher. And as she said, she didn’t want to see Lasky court-martialed because of his disobedience. Also, Halsey is a dangerous war criminal as far as she knows.

@XbL:

I agree with you. I am not a military man though do they make exceptions/have there ever been cases in history of the right call winning over disobeying orders.

Mostly this is the writers being sloppy; its very irksome.

They’re far too valuable.

There’s no point in court marshalling an augmented super-soldier. The UNSC and ONI have already invested too much into these Spartans, to court marshall them over a small incident would be a waste of resources.

Besides, Del Rio’s superiors branded him as wrong anyway so it’s possible they let both John and Palmer off the hook. Palmer also obeyed a superior officer in her attempt to assassinate Halsey, thus negating her “disobedience” to Lasky.

In any real military scenario or if 343i bothered following a realistic path/the rules Halo has established, Palmer wouldn’t have even made it beyond the lowest rank of Private, if that. She is not cut out or suitable for any kind of command…she certainly wouldn’t have become the commander of the IVs, if she even made it into their numbers at all, she’d be nothing more than common “grunt” Spartan.

As it stands now though, the reason why nothing bad has or will happen to her is because she’s Brian Reed’s personal little Mary-Sue. Otherwise she would have been court-martialed and removed from command, both for disobeying Lasky’s orders to not go out there, and for following Osman’s illegal, immoral orders in the first place.

> With John, it’s probably just a matter of image. John is THE hero of the Human-Covenant War. How would the UNSC look if their greatest asset and hero was court-martialed? Plus, like you said, his insubordination was for the greater good, and ended up saving the Earth. I think that would earn him some amnesty.
>
> As for Palmer, the Del Rio vs. John situation was awkward for everyone. She could have either arrested John and risked the Didact carrying out his plans unopposed. Or she could have let him go and let him stop the Didact. There was no right or wrong thing to do. Not to mention that John is a hero and she was hesitant to detain him (if she even could).
>
> She disobeyed Lasky’s order, but obeyed Osman’s order, who is ranked much higher. And as she said, she didn’t want to see Lasky court-martialed because of his disobedience. Also, Halsey is a dangerous war criminal as far as she knows.

Chief wouldn’t be court martialed because he was refusing to obey for the right reasons, there are more than a few situations where, if not applauded for not following the order, the individual will at least get off scott-free for doing so…Del Rio falling into an irrational fit is one of those types of situations.

Now, as to Palmer in the second instance. It doesn’t matter if Osman is a higher rank than Lasky, they’re not Palmer’s orders, she wasn’t the one given the mission or assignment…if her commanding officer wherever she’s stationed tells her to stand down, then she has to do it. Lasky was the one given the assignment and the task of seeing it done, the missions was his to carry out or assign as he saw fit. Palmer’s disobedience would not be something that any kind of command would approve of or condone because she was disobeying a superior officer just because she wanted to, and not to mention that Osman’s orders were illegal and immoral to begin with anyway. Both Osman and Palmer would be finding themselves in the biggest trouble you can imagine if 343i paid any attention to how ONI would realistically be functioning: Osman for even giving the order in the first place, and Palmer for attempting to carry it out.

343i’s whole entire thing with Halsey has been one long incidence of breaking and violating the law and insubordination on ONI’s part with them taking assuming powers that aren’t their to give or take.

Osman’s orders illegal and immoral? … no.
Halsey isn’t an innocent angel that’s been wrongly imprisoned. Morally, Osman has more right than most of the entire UNSC command to order her fate.

Palmer is not a grunt. Her actions on Draetheus-V show she is quite capable. And Lasky would have gotten in trouble too. There are over 600 ONI operatives onboard infinity if I remember correctly. There is this personal relationship between Thomas and Sarah.

> Osman’s orders illegal and immoral? … no.
> Halsey isn’t an innocent angel that’s been wrongly imprisoned. Morally, Osman has more right than most of the entire UNSC command to order her fate.
>
> Palmer is not a grunt. Her actions on Draetheus-V show she is quite capable. And Lasky would have gotten in trouble too. There are over 600 ONI operatives onboard infinity if I remember correctly. <mark>There is this personal relationship between Thomas and Sarah</mark>.

That’s what I’m thinking.

> In any real military scenario or if 343i bothered following a realistic path/the rules Halo has established, Palmer wouldn’t have even made it beyond the lowest rank of Private, if that. She is not cut out or suitable for any kind of command…she certainly wouldn’t have become the commander of the IVs, if she even made it into their numbers at all, she’d be nothing more than common “grunt” Spartan.
>
> As it stands now though, the reason why nothing bad has or will happen to her is because she’s Brian Reed’s personal little Mary-Sue. Otherwise she would have been court-martialed and removed from command, both for disobeying Lasky’s orders to not go out there, and for following Osman’s illegal, immoral orders in the first place.
>
>
>
>
> > With John, it’s probably just a matter of image. John is THE hero of the Human-Covenant War. How would the UNSC look if their greatest asset and hero was court-martialed? Plus, like you said, his insubordination was for the greater good, and ended up saving the Earth. I think that would earn him some amnesty.
> >
> > As for Palmer, the Del Rio vs. John situation was awkward for everyone. She could have either arrested John and risked the Didact carrying out his plans unopposed. Or she could have let him go and let him stop the Didact. There was no right or wrong thing to do. Not to mention that John is a hero and she was hesitant to detain him (if she even could).
> >
> > She disobeyed Lasky’s order, but obeyed Osman’s order, who is ranked much higher. And as she said, she didn’t want to see Lasky court-martialed because of his disobedience. Also, Halsey is a dangerous war criminal as far as she knows.
>
> Chief wouldn’t be court martialed because he was refusing to obey for the right reasons, there are more than a few situations where, if not applauded for not following the order, the individual will at least get off scott-free for doing so…Del Rio falling into an irrational fit is one of those types of situations.
>
>
> Now, as to Palmer in the second instance. It doesn’t matter if Osman is a higher rank than Lasky, they’re not Palmer’s orders, she wasn’t the one given the mission or assignment…if her commanding officer wherever she’s stationed tells her to stand down, then she has to do it. Lasky was the one given the assignment and the task of seeing it done, the missions was his to carry out or assign as he saw fit. Palmer’s disobedience would not be something that any kind of command would approve of or condone because she was disobeying a superior officer just because she wanted to, and not to mention that Osman’s orders were illegal and immoral to begin with anyway. Both Osman and Palmer would be finding themselves in the biggest trouble you can imagine if 343i paid any attention to how ONI would realistically be functioning: Osman for even giving the order in the first place, and Palmer for attempting to carry it out.
>
> 343i’s whole entire thing with Halsey has been one long incidence of breaking and violating the law and insubordination on ONI’s part with them taking assuming powers that aren’t their to give or take.

Palmer wouldn’t get court marshaled because she followed the orders of the Officer who has the authority to court marshal her and a superior officer to Lasky to boot. Lasky would have been court marshaled because he disobeyed a direct order from an Admiral, and Palmer, who admitted that it was wrong, respected Lasky too much, volunteered to protect him.

It doesn’t matter what is right or wrong, there is a chain of command for a reason and you have to follow that chain of command. Osman wouldn’t get in trouble seeing as how she is the head of the very organization you’re saying she’d get in trouble with, the very same organization who writes the laws you accuse her of breaking. And even if she wasn’t, what would she get in trouble for exactly? Ordering the execution of a priority security breach that has been proven to be secretly talking to the enemy leader, immediately after breaking out of jail by subverting and taking control of the AI of the most powerful warship in human history? A convicted criminal turned traitor who has been known to be a loose canon for years?

Do you really want a “realistic” military scenario or do you just want what you want to satisfy your own biases? Because you clearly want the latter and are only saying you want the former.

Halsey may be working for the greater good, and yes ONI has too much power, you and I know that, but the people who are wary of her do not, and the people who have too much power dictate what the other people think about Halsey. Welcome to the world of intelligence gathering.

> > In any real military scenario or if 343i bothered following a realistic path/the rules Halo has established, Palmer wouldn’t have even made it beyond the lowest rank of Private, if that. She is not cut out or suitable for any kind of command…she certainly wouldn’t have become the commander of the IVs, if she even made it into their numbers at all, she’d be nothing more than common “grunt” Spartan.
> >
> > As it stands now though, the reason why nothing bad has or will happen to her is because she’s Brian Reed’s personal little Mary-Sue. Otherwise she would have been court-martialed and removed from command, both for disobeying Lasky’s orders to not go out there, and for following Osman’s illegal, immoral orders in the first place.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > With John, it’s probably just a matter of image. John is THE hero of the Human-Covenant War. How would the UNSC look if their greatest asset and hero was court-martialed? Plus, like you said, his insubordination was for the greater good, and ended up saving the Earth. I think that would earn him some amnesty.
> > >
> > > As for Palmer, the Del Rio vs. John situation was awkward for everyone. She could have either arrested John and risked the Didact carrying out his plans unopposed. Or she could have let him go and let him stop the Didact. There was no right or wrong thing to do. Not to mention that John is a hero and she was hesitant to detain him (if she even could).
> > >
> > > She disobeyed Lasky’s order, but obeyed Osman’s order, who is ranked much higher. And as she said, she didn’t want to see Lasky court-martialed because of his disobedience. Also, Halsey is a dangerous war criminal as far as she knows.
> >
> > Chief wouldn’t be court martialed because he was refusing to obey for the right reasons, there are more than a few situations where, if not applauded for not following the order, the individual will at least get off scott-free for doing so…Del Rio falling into an irrational fit is one of those types of situations.
> >
> >
> > Now, as to Palmer in the second instance. It doesn’t matter if Osman is a higher rank than Lasky, they’re not Palmer’s orders, she wasn’t the one given the mission or assignment…if her commanding officer wherever she’s stationed tells her to stand down, then she has to do it. Lasky was the one given the assignment and the task of seeing it done, the missions was his to carry out or assign as he saw fit. Palmer’s disobedience would not be something that any kind of command would approve of or condone because she was disobeying a superior officer just because she wanted to, and not to mention that Osman’s orders were illegal and immoral to begin with anyway. Both Osman and Palmer would be finding themselves in the biggest trouble you can imagine if 343i paid any attention to how ONI would realistically be functioning: Osman for even giving the order in the first place, and Palmer for attempting to carry it out.
> >
> > 343i’s whole entire thing with Halsey has been one long incidence of breaking and violating the law and insubordination on ONI’s part with them taking assuming powers that aren’t their to give or take.
>
> Palmer wouldn’t get court marshaled because she followed the orders of the Officer who has the authority to court marshal her and a superior officer to Lasky to boot. Lasky would have been court marshaled because he disobeyed a direct order from an Admiral, and Palmer, who admitted that it was wrong, respected Lasky too much, volunteered to protect him.
>
> It doesn’t matter what is right or wrong, there is a chain of command for a reason and you have to follow that chain of command. Osman wouldn’t get in trouble seeing as how she is the head of the very organization you’re saying she’d get in trouble with, the very same organization who writes the laws you accuse her of breaking. And even if she wasn’t, what would she get in trouble for exactly? Ordering the execution of a priority security breach that has been proven to be secretly talking to the enemy leader, immediately after breaking out of jail by subverting and taking control of the AI of the most powerful warship in human history? A convicted criminal turned traitor who has been known to be a loose canon for years?
>
> Do you really want a “realistic” military scenario or do you just want what you want to satisfy your own biases? Because you clearly want the latter and are only saying you want the former.
>
> Halsey may be working for the greater good, and yes ONI has too much power, you and I know that, but the people who are wary of her do not, and the people who have too much power dictate what the other people think about Halsey. Welcome to the world of intelligence gathering.

Well said bro. Well said.

> And even if she wasn’t, what would she get in trouble for exactly? Ordering the execution of a priority security breach that has been proven to be secretly talking to the enemy leader, immediately after breaking out of jail by subverting and taking control of the AI of the most powerful warship in human history? A convicted criminal turned traitor who has been known to be a loose canon for years?

This. We as the audience know better, but the characters in the story are not privy to our perspective and therefor only see Halsey in this light. We have been in her head and know what her reasoning is but the characters in the story can only base their opinions on her actions. Halsey had abandoned Humanity and stole the Spartans when they needed them the most. She accesses top secret data files without a care in the world, overrides ONI/UNSC AI and communicates openly with known terrorists. She’s not making it easy for anyone in-universe to like her.

> > And even if she wasn’t, what would she get in trouble for exactly? Ordering the execution of a priority security breach that has been proven to be secretly talking to the enemy leader, immediately after breaking out of jail by subverting and taking control of the AI of the most powerful warship in human history? A convicted criminal turned traitor who has been known to be a loose canon for years?
>
> This. We as the audience know better, but the characters in the story are not privy to our perspective and therefor only see Halsey in this light. We have been in her head and know what her reasoning is but the characters in the story can only base their opinions on her actions. Halsey had abandoned Humanity and stole the Spartans when they needed them the most. She accesses top secret data files without a care in the world, overrides ONI/UNSC AI and communicates openly with known terrorists. She’s not making it easy for anyone in-universe to like her.

People seem to make this mistake so much frankly it’s starting to annoy me. We have a God’s eye view of a story that is complex and rife with various characters, ideologies, perspectives and moral codes. Halsey’s actions are questionable, but they are for the greater good. We know that, but ONI, Palmer, everyone else, they don’t know that. They only know what they have personally seen. What has Osman seen?

Dr. Halsey kidnapped her, effectively tortured her and she came out of it mutilated. ONI adopts her and gives her a new life. Now Halsey is running amok, kidnapping Spartan II’s, deserting, stealing files, hijacking AI’s (and endangering super-ships), and negotiating with terrorists. What does anyone honestly expect Osman to do with Halsey? Give her a medal? ONI would frankly have to be morons to do anything less than throw her in a cell.

I like Halsey as a good person with a lot of flaws, I know she fights for humanity’s future, but -Yoink!- does she leave a mess in her wake. Someone was bound to yank on her chain and yank it hard. They needed her before the war ended, but now her expertise is becoming more and more commonplace. She is simply no longer the all powerful asset she used to be, and now her loose cannon status is catching up to her.

And I think that brings up another thing-

It seems to me that people tend to demand perfection from in-universe characters. If they behave irrationally or make mistakes sometimes people immediately jump to “bad writing”. Thus the “double standards” comment in the OP?

It just seems to me that sometimes mistakes make a character (or group) more believable. Real-life humans aren’t perfect, so why should fictional ones be?

> And I think that brings up another thing-
>
> It seems to me that people tend to demand perfection from in-universe characters. If they behave irrationally or make mistakes sometimes people immediately jump to “bad writing”. Thus the “double standards” comment in the OP?
>
> It just seems to me that sometimes mistakes make a character (or group) more believable. Real-life humans aren’t perfect, so why should fictional ones be?

THANK YOU!

> > And I think that brings up another thing-
> >
> > It seems to me that people tend to demand perfection from in-universe characters. If they behave irrationally or make mistakes sometimes people immediately jump to “bad writing”. Thus the “double standards” comment in the OP?
> >
> > It just seems to me that sometimes mistakes make a character (or group) more believable. Real-life humans aren’t perfect, so why should fictional ones be?
>
> THANK YOU!

Exactly, wished more people tried to exam characters from how they would perceive and react to the world from their limited surroundings

> And I think that brings up another thing-
>
> It seems to me that people tend to demand perfection from in-universe characters. If they behave irrationally or make mistakes sometimes people immediately jump to “bad writing”. Thus the “double standards” comment in the OP?
>
> It just seems to me that sometimes mistakes make a character (or group) more believable. <mark>Real-life humans aren’t perfect, so why should fictional ones be?</mark>

YES SIR! Agreed.

> And I think that brings up another thing-
>
> It seems to me that people tend to demand perfection from in-universe characters. If they behave irrationally or make mistakes sometimes people immediately jump to “bad writing”. Thus the “double standards” comment in the OP?
>
> It just seems to me that sometimes mistakes make a character (or group) more believable. Real-life humans aren’t perfect, so why should fictional ones be?

People complain that certain characters are treated like Sues, and then demand that every character act like one.

Can’t have their cake and eat it too.

> Osman’s orders illegal and immoral? … no.
> Halsey isn’t an innocent angel that’s been wrongly imprisoned. Morally, Osman has more right than most of the entire UNSC command to order her fate.
>
> Palmer is not a grunt. Her actions on Draetheus-V show she is quite capable. And Lasky would have gotten in trouble too. There are over 600 ONI operatives onboard infinity if I remember correctly. There is this personal relationship between Thomas and Sarah.

Yes, because that’s exactly what they are. ONI does not have the power or the authority to just go around executing or assassinating whoever they jolly-well please, especially not UEG/UNSC citizens. Osman (or anyone else in ONI) has no right to command anyone’s fate as that’s not part of the job description. 343i’s whole entire plot arc devoted to Halsey is a colossal and utter joke because it’s completely unfeasible and contradicts how things work within the structure of humanity’s government in Halo.

Halsey has been wrongfully imprisoned because she’s done nothing wrong or worthy of imprisonment. Osman has no right morally to do anything, she’s just as bad as Parangosky is and has no right to call anyone out on anything. She is a traitor to her own government and gods know what else. Working against the wishes/goals of your government for absolutely no reason and going along with plans that will result in the annihilation and extinction of the entire human race is a thousand times worse than working with the government to save the whole entire human race, albeit at the price of 75 kids losing the chance for a life outside the military.

As to Palmer, doing well individually in a battle does not necessarily make you fit for leadership. Just because Palmer knows how to fight or can fight quite capably does not make her qualified or fit to lead anyone else. And god is that woman not qualified for leadership, she’s an awful leader.

> Palmer wouldn’t get court marshaled because she followed the orders of the Officer who has the authority to court marshal her and a superior officer to Lasky to boot. Lasky would have been court marshaled because he disobeyed a direct order from an Admiral, and Palmer, who admitted that it was wrong, respected Lasky too much, volunteered to protect him.
>
> It doesn’t matter what is right or wrong, there is a chain of command for a reason and you have to follow that chain of command. Osman wouldn’t get in trouble seeing as how she is the head of the very organization you’re saying she’d get in trouble with, the very same organization who writes the laws you accuse her of breaking. And even if she wasn’t, what would she get in trouble for exactly? Ordering the execution of a priority security breach that has been proven to be secretly talking to the enemy leader, immediately after breaking out of jail by subverting and taking control of the AI of the most powerful warship in human history? A convicted criminal turned traitor who has been known to be a loose canon for years?
>
> Do you really want a “realistic” military scenario or do you just want what you want to satisfy your own biases? Because you clearly want the latter and are only saying you want the former.
>
> Halsey may be working for the greater good, and yes ONI has too much power, you and I know that, but the people who are wary of her do not, and the people who have too much power dictate what the other people think about Halsey. Welcome to the world of intelligence gathering.

That is exactly why she would get a court martial. It doesn’t matter how high up the chain of command an officer is…a violation of the law is a violation of the law. Osman being an admiral does not excuse her usurping authority that is not her own and making calls she does not have the right or power to make. ONI does not have the right or power to just go kill whoever they want to just because it strikes their fancy to do so, and especially not citizens.

And yes, Osman could get in trouble with ONI, there’s little old branch called Section 0 that’s responsible for managing internal affairs and keeping everyone else in line. Whoever is the director of ONI is not actually the top of the food chain there, Section 0 is as no one is safe from them. But no, ONI wasn’t who I was talking about Osman getting in trouble with, no, she’d get in trouble with the top of the UEG’s food chain, the UNSC…you know, the military that ONI is a branch of and held responsible to? Osman is the head of ONI, she is not the ruler of all human territory or the human government. ONI does not write the laws, ONI has absolutely nothing to do with managing or running the UEG. They are an intelligence agency within the human military, not the Illuminati.

Funny that you talk about realism when you’re the one who’s a-ok with all of the unrealistic shenanigans that 343i has ONI doing and getting away with. What 343i has been doing with ONI is something that would not work within the bounds Halo has established for a multitude of reasons that myself and dozens of others have all gone into a thousand times over on these forums. Nothing 343i has done with Halsey and ONI has been at all realistic, to either actual reality or the rules and facts established within Halo’s own fictional reality.

> Yes, because that’s exactly what they are. ONI does not have the power or the authority to just go around executing or assassinating whoever they jolly-well please, especially not UEG/UNSC citizens.

You make it sound like the UNSC/ONI hasn’t assassinated anyone before. What about Jerald Mulkey Ander who had his head blown off by a young Avery Johnson during Operation: KALEIDOSCOPE? Then there was the Spartan raid on Camp New Hope where they were authorized to kill any rebel leader they might come across.

Of course you could argue that those men were terrorist rebels and therefor traitors, but then I’d have to remind you that Doctor Halsey was arrested and held for treason herself. The UNSC doesn’t seem to mind killing traitors, and I would say one who breaks out of her cell, compromises the UNSC Flagship’s AI and is then caught chatting with a terrorist leader while reading top secret files, is definitely one they would have no problem disposing of.

> Halsey has been wrongfully imprisoned because she’s done nothing wrong or worthy of imprisonment.

Excuse me? Doctor Halsey infiltrated top secret files on Reach and was warned by her own AI that that was a treasonable offense. She responded with “They can come arrest me then.” ONI should be aware of those actions as well since they knew she destroyed Araqiel. She then kidnapped a Spartan in the middle of a battle and proceeded to go to a top secret location, which she discovered with her treasonous actions, and then lied about a discovery there and used her friend’s trust to send her the remaining Spartans so that she can run away with them because she thought Humanity was doomed. Of course the message she sent was also intercepted and translated by the Covenant who then learned the location of the top secret UNSC facility.

She even admits to all of this herself and accepts the fact that she should be punished.

> Funny that you talk about realism when you’re the one who’s a-ok with all of the unrealistic shenanigans that 343i has ONI doing and getting away with.

Yeah because they are way worse than the Bungie ONI. The one that kidnaps children in order to make super soldiers, assassinates rebel leaders and makes even more child super soldiers which they sent on suicide missions.

ONI has always done bad things. I don’t know why people are crying about it now.

> You make it sound like the UNSC/ONI hasn’t assassinated anyone before. What about Jerald Mulkey Ander who had his head blown off by a young Avery Johnson during Operation: KALEIDOSCOPE? Then there was the Spartan raid on Camp New Hope where they were authorized to kill any rebel leader they might come across.
>
> Of course you could argue that those men were terrorist rebels and therefor traitors, but then I’d have to remind you that Doctor Halsey was arrested and held for treason herself. The UNSC doesn’t seem to mind killing traitors, and I would say one who breaks out of her cell, compromises the UNSC Flagship’s AI and is then caught chatting with a terrorist leader while reading top secret files, is definitely one they would have no problem disposing of.

ONI certainly hasn’t on their own and without authorization from higher up, no. As I said, ONI doesn’t have the power to make that call unless, and certainly not whenever they want to against whoever they want.

The difference between that and Osman just up and deciding she wants to kill Halsey now, besides being the kill orders authorized from higher up (either by ONI being specifically given the task, or carte blanche in dealing with the Insurrection/Insurrection leaders) and traitors as you pointed out, is that they’re not citizens of the UEG. By declaring independence/fighting for secession, the Insurrectionists have essentially declared themselves non-citizens and a hostile foreign force. They’ve lost their citizen rights by trying to declare themselves independent from the UNSC. That makes all the difference in how you deal with a threat and what can or can’t be done in dealing with them. It’s a completely different game from someone like Halsey.

> Excuse me? Doctor Halsey infiltrated top secret files on Reach and was warned by her own AI that that was a treasonable offense. She responded with “They can come arrest me then.” ONI should be aware of those actions as well since they knew she destroyed Araqiel. She then kidnapped a Spartan in the middle of a battle and proceeded to go to a top secret location, which she discovered with her treasonous actions, and then lied about a discovery there and used her friend’s trust to send her the remaining Spartans so that she can run away with them because she thought Humanity was doomed. Of course the message she sent was also intercepted and translated by the Covenant who then learned the location of the top secret UNSC facility.
>
> She even admits to all of this herself and accepts the fact that she should be punished.

Your point being? It doesn’t matter what we might or might not know as the audience…as far as anyone within Halo is concerned the only thing wrong that Halsey did was taking Kelly and running to Onyx. The only person besides herself who ever knew the real reason why she went to Onyx is dead. No one has any way of knowing how she found out about Onyx or even why she’s there.

And this brings up another flaw with Karen Traviss (and to some extent 343i as well since they let it slide by and didn’t make Traviss change or get rid of it), their seeming omniscience where they know things that they would have absolutely no way of knowing. All contact was lost with Reach during the battle and no knew what was going on there or who did what where on the planet. The only reason why they even knew that the planet was a lost cause and already overrun was because Lieutenant Wagner got to Earth in such a hurry during the battle. ONI have no way of knowing or finding any of the knowledge they display in Kilo-5. They would not know of Halsey reading Ackerson’s files, or about Araquiel and Kalmiyah being destroyed (which was protocol and standard procedure anyway, so even if they could know about the termination of the two AIs, they wouldn’t think anything of since they were supposed to be destroyed along with everything else within SWORD Base anyway).

The only thing Halsey has done (that they would know of) for ONI to take any kind of action against is taking Kelly to Onyx. And even then they wouldn’t be able to touch her, considering Lord Hood didn’t seem to give a damn about it as he sent the rest of Blue Team there to back Halsey up. And not only that but the biggest Forerunner artifact that the UNSC has uncovered yet was delivered to them because of Halsey’s actions, just like she promised in her message to Hood and FLEETCOM. Considering all of that, the worst that Halsey would be getting is what would amount to a slap on the wrist. HIGHCOM is not going to let ONI throw away one of the UNSC’s most important assets, especially not after delivering the motherload of Forerunner technology right into their arms.

> Yeah because they are way worse than the Bungie ONI. The one that kidnaps children in order to make super soldiers, assassinates rebel leaders and makes even more child super soldiers which they sent on suicide missions.
>
> ONI has always done bad things. I don’t know why people are crying about it now.

The difference is authorization and in the tone of the work(s), ONI was authorized and given permission to do everything that we know they’ve been up to in all of the books that were written while Bungie was running the show. There was a clear chain of command and a hierarchy that was followed throughout. Which 343i has now thrown out in favor of ONI being free to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whoever they want with no repercussions of any kind.

In addition to everything I said above, ONI (if they were personel involved with things like coming up with and authorizing the Spartan Programs) wasn’t treated like they were good, moral, or upstanding people, at best ONI as an organization and the majority of people belonging to ONI encountered throughout the series were morally grey. As an organization they were questionable with many things under their belt that most would consider evil.
Now, they’re treated as good guys, nothing they’ve done in 343i’s canon has been called out or into question. It’s treated as the right thing to do or a good thing. Things like planning the genocide of an entire species, actively breaking the law and committing treason in order to carry through with said plans for genocide. Treating people like Parangosky who are obviously completely lacking in any and all moral character and on a moral scale as black as black can be, as if they’re saints or haven’t done anything wrong…whilst calling out someone who in comparison to the likes Parangosky would be a saint (note, I am not actually saying that Halsey is a saint or perfect, merely pointing out that in comparison to someone like Parangosky would come across that way when presented with all of the facts).

ONI has always done or morally questionable things, yes, but it hasn’t been painted as being the good guys like Karen Traviss does all throughout Kilo-5.

The kidnapping of children, the use of them, the cloning of children. All of that, after the war is over, when the finger pointing time comes, it’s when cards fall. HIGHCOM wouldn’t just absolve Halsey. The breadcrumbs left by Halsey are evidence. She tricked lord hood. She did what she did to save her precious Spartans. She’s considered dad already.

Parangosky knows what she bas done and readied herself for it. Halsey was given contrapaso, her not having a formal trial would mean she’d still be able to help humanity. With a trial, she’d likely be executed. She was ONI. Not just your regular civilian who works at some place. Head scientist chief. Halsey’s getting it better than Parangosky in the end, that is, until she makes herself seen conspiring with the enemy.

Yes Osman has the moral right. She was a victim/product of Halsey.

Palmer didn’t only fight. she made decisions, took command during the battle.

It is indicated that she was given the order execute Halsey. Thomas disobeyed the order by sending majestic. Palmer then defended Lasky by telling Osman that it was a contingency and that she bad missed. Look, she admitted herself she missed Halsey.

Someone said about complaining about Mary sues and wanting Mary sues.