Unsc Counter-Attack

Did the unsc ever attempt a land invasion of a covenant planet? If not then where there plans for one? Could the unsc have been able to halt covenant attacks on their land by invading covenant worlds?

Operation Torpedo, Spartan IIIs invaded a Covenant refinery planetoid and blew it up, butcthey all died. There was no invasion of a Covenant planet by the traditional UNSC military forces, the vast majority of the war was the UNSC on the defensive.

Operation: PROMETHEUS with SPARTAN III Alpha Co. would fall into the same non-invasion category. A raid designed to destroy Covenant shipyard on K7-49 (an asteroid of substantial enough mass to support the shipyard facilities). It might be generous to describe K7-49 as a planetoid, but same concept, and still not an invasive force.

Silent Storm saw Chief and several Spartans and ODSTs inserting on a Covenant-controlled planet to take down a massive ship building station.

Also, while not a planet, the Unyielding Hierophant (the Uneven Elephant according to Johnson) was a massive 30x10 kilometer space station (so big enough to be worth mentioning here) that Chief and several Spartans infiltrated during First Strike.

Of course, again, the UNSC never invaded an actual Covenant planet, nor were the above examples actual ‘invasions’, they were more like just raids.

Besides what was already posted, the UNSC’s “strategy” during the Human-Covenant War was an entirely defensive campaign as they waited for the Covenant to role up onto there colonies. And considering the UNSC really had no clue just how large the Covenant’s Sphere of Influence really was in retrospect. Even if some high ranking individuals wanted to “invade” a Covenant world such as Sangheilios or any other Covenant member worlds. The campaign would undoubtedly end in a disaster as the Covenant held superiority in space and any ground engagement would be very costly and a waste of necessary war material as without Spartan-II’s they would have charged into a meat grinder.

Really outside of the raids, the closest thing the UNSC got to striking a blow against any Covenant non-military population center was the accidental detonation of a NOVA bomb over orbit of one Sangheili colony world. And again, that was entirely by accident and the Covenant’s own fault.

> 2533274838418174;7:
> Really outside of the raids, the closest thing the UNSC got to striking a blow against any Covenant non-military population center was the accidental detonation of a NOVA bomb over orbit of one Sangheili colony world. And again, that was entirely by accident and the Covenant’s own fault.

You’re forgetting OPERATION: SUNSPEAR, that certainly wasn’t an accident. They completely skipped the troublesome invasion portion and proceeded straight to annihilation.

> 2535435902217648;4:
> Silent Storm saw Chief and several Spartans and ODSTs inserting on a Covenant-controlled planet to take down a massive ship building station.

It’s crazy to think that out of the hundreds of ODSTs who made planetfall, only 2 survived the operation. And this was the best ODST battalion in the entire UNSC.

Damn, so they did a fair share of raids on strategical locations but no planetary invasions? Humanity truly was on the deffensive then.
Edit- switched offensive to deffensive.

Defensive, not offensive.

I realized just now I never answered your second question.

As to whether or not the UNSC could have prevented a Covenant invasion by invading a Covenant world, I’d say no. The Covenant was ridiculously huge and powerful. They had a seemingly endless supply of ships and soldiers when invading human worlds. Take Reach for example. No matter how many ships were destroyed by the Super MACs and ships on site, the Covenant just kept sending more. So even if the UNSC successfully invaded one Covenant world and destroyed a hypothetical fleet at that location, another fleet could be tasked to invade instead.

Even that assumes the UNSC had the resources available to even invade one Covenant world, which they didn’t.

> 2535435902217648;11:
> I realized just now I never answered your second question.
>
> As to whether or not the UNSC could have prevented a Covenant invasion by invading a Covenant world, I’d say no. The Covenant was ridiculously huge and powerful. They had a seemingly endless supply of ships and soldiers when invading human worlds. Take Reach for example. No matter how many ships were destroyed by the Super MACs and ships on site, the Covenant just kept sending more. So even if the UNSC successfully invaded one Covenant world and destroyed a hypothetical fleet at that location, another fleet could be tasked to invade instead.
>
> Even that assumes the UNSC had the resources available to even invade one Covenant world, which they didn’t.

Based on the casualty rate seen during OPERATION: SILENT STORM, the UNSC would have run out of soldiers and marines long before Admiral Cole finished the Harvest campaign.

As others have already pointed out, even if the UNSC has the capability to take a Covenant controlled world, they never could have held it against the numerically and technologically superior fleets the Covenant could have fielded to retake the world, or worlds in question.

If you can’t hold something, there is no point in expending resources to take it in the first place. Add to that the fact that the Covenant occupies a vast portion of the Milky Way Galaxy, and you also need to take into account travelling times. UNSC space is only a fraction of the size of Covenant space, and before the war it took about a full year for one ship to traverse the distance from one side of human space to the other. This means it would likely take a minimum of a year for a UNSC invasion force to reach a planet whose loss would sorely hurt the Covenant war effort, and keeping that invasion force supplied would be another matter.

That’s why the largest offensives the UNSC ever mounted against the Covenant in their own territory were little more then special forces raids against border outposts.

Is does beg the question whether the UNSC defensive campaign ever had a chance of winning them the war, as there seemed to be a belief that the Covenant would simply run out of steam before they reached Earth.

The reason the UNSC never attempted a land invasion of a Covenant planet is because there was no point. Unlike the Covenant, the UNSC had little interest in Forerunner artifacts and therefore had no reason to perform a costly land invasion instead of just outright nuking the planet, which is exactly what they did to at least three Covenant worlds (Zhoist, Saepon’kal, Glyke).

> 2533274853837831;13:
> As others have already pointed out, even if the UNSC has the capability to take a Covenant controlled world, they never could have held it against the numerically and technologically superior fleets the Covenant could have fielded to retake the world, or worlds in question.
>
> If you can’t hold something, there is no point in expending resources to take it in the first place. Add to that the fact that the Covenant occupies a vast portion of the Milky Way Galaxy, and you also need to take into account travelling times. UNSC space is only a fraction of the size of Covenant space, and before the war it took about a full year for one ship to traverse the distance from one side of human space to the other. This means it would likely take a minimum of a year for a UNSC invasion force to reach a planet whose loss would sorely hurt the Covenant war effort, and keeping that invasion force supplied would be another matter.
>
> That’s why the largest offensives the UNSC ever mounted against the Covenant in their own territory were little more then special forces raids against border outposts.
>
> Is does beg the question whether the UNSC defensive campaign ever had a chance of winning them the war, as there seemed to be a belief that the Covenant would simply run out of steam before they reached Earth.

They weren’t that much bigger.

“The Milky Way galaxy is vast, with hundreds of billions of stars separated by incomprehensible distances and tangled slipspace routes. Limited resources and other distractions mean that only a few thousand star systems in the Orion Arm have been explored in detail by humanity and the Covenant. The state of the wider galaxy is a mystery except for small islands of knowledge recovered from Forerunner vaults or through special pioneer missions.” -Halo Warfleet Page 12

> 2535435902217648;11:
> I realized just now I never answered your second question.
>
> As to whether or not the UNSC could have prevented a Covenant invasion by invading a Covenant world, I’d say no. The Covenant was ridiculously huge and powerful. They had a seemingly endless supply of ships and soldiers when invading human worlds. Take Reach for example. No matter how many ships were destroyed by the Super MACs and ships on site, the Covenant just kept sending more. So even if the UNSC successfully invaded one Covenant world and destroyed a hypothetical fleet at that location, another fleet could be tasked to invade instead.
>
> Even that assumes the UNSC had the resources available to even invade one Covenant world, which they didn’t.

Good point. Also, we know that the Banished were also attacking the Covenant simultaneously, draining resources and disrupting infrastructure. The Covenant was numerically and technologically advantaged, even fighting splinter factions (Banished, later the Great Schism). Barring the extraordinary circumstances that did indeed take place, Humanity would not have survived, and even accounting for these events, it was a near thing.

> 2535433369016861;14:
> The reason the UNSC never attempted a land invasion of a Covenant planet is because there was no point. Unlike the Covenant, the UNSC had little interest in Forerunner artifacts and therefore had no reason to perform a costly land invasion instead of just outright nuking the planet, which is exactly what they did to at least three Covenant worlds (Zhoist, Saepon’kal, Glyke).
>
>
> > 2533274853837831;13:
> > As others have already pointed out, even if the UNSC has the capability to take a Covenant controlled world, they never could have held it against the numerically and technologically superior fleets the Covenant could have fielded to retake the world, or worlds in question.
> >
> > If you can’t hold something, there is no point in expending resources to take it in the first place. Add to that the fact that the Covenant occupies a vast portion of the Milky Way Galaxy, and you also need to take into account travelling times. UNSC space is only a fraction of the size of Covenant space, and before the war it took about a full year for one ship to traverse the distance from one side of human space to the other. This means it would likely take a minimum of a year for a UNSC invasion force to reach a planet whose loss would sorely hurt the Covenant war effort, and keeping that invasion force supplied would be another matter.
> >
> > That’s why the largest offensives the UNSC ever mounted against the Covenant in their own territory were little more then special forces raids against border outposts.
> >
> > Is does beg the question whether the UNSC defensive campaign ever had a chance of winning them the war, as there seemed to be a belief that the Covenant would simply run out of steam before they reached Earth.
>
> They weren’t that much bigger.
>
> “The Milky Way galaxy is vast, with hundreds of billions of stars separated by incomprehensible distances and tangled slipspace routes. Limited resources and other distractions mean that only a few thousand star systems in the Orion Arm have been explored in detail by humanity and the Covenant. The state of the wider galaxy is a mystery except for small islands of knowledge recovered from Forerunner vaults or through special pioneer missions.” -Halo Warfleet Page 12

Halo Fleet Guide Page 52

“The Covenant Controlled thousands of Star Systems at the height of its Power.”

By comparison we know the UNSC controller only 800 colonies other than Earth. When you take into account that solar systems can support more then one colony world, that means the Covenant sphere could number anywhere between 1,000 - 100,000 worlds.

I’d call most numbers between those 2 figures substantially larger in terms of population and raw materials then what the UNSC has access too.

> 2533274853837831;16:
> > 2535433369016861;14:
> > The reason the UNSC never attempted a land invasion of a Covenant planet is because there was no point. Unlike the Covenant, the UNSC had little interest in Forerunner artifacts and therefore had no reason to perform a costly land invasion instead of just outright nuking the planet, which is exactly what they did to at least three Covenant worlds (Zhoist, Saepon’kal, Glyke).
> >
> >
> > > 2533274853837831;13:
> > > As others have already pointed out, even if the UNSC has the capability to take a Covenant controlled world, they never could have held it against the numerically and technologically superior fleets the Covenant could have fielded to retake the world, or worlds in question.
> > >
> > > If you can’t hold something, there is no point in expending resources to take it in the first place. Add to that the fact that the Covenant occupies a vast portion of the Milky Way Galaxy, and you also need to take into account travelling times. UNSC space is only a fraction of the size of Covenant space, and before the war it took about a full year for one ship to traverse the distance from one side of human space to the other. This means it would likely take a minimum of a year for a UNSC invasion force to reach a planet whose loss would sorely hurt the Covenant war effort, and keeping that invasion force supplied would be another matter.
> > >
> > > That’s why the largest offensives the UNSC ever mounted against the Covenant in their own territory were little more then special forces raids against border outposts.
> > >
> > > Is does beg the question whether the UNSC defensive campaign ever had a chance of winning them the war, as there seemed to be a belief that the Covenant would simply run out of steam before they reached Earth.
> >
> > They weren’t that much bigger.
> >
> > “The Milky Way galaxy is vast, with hundreds of billions of stars separated by incomprehensible distances and tangled slipspace routes. Limited resources and other distractions mean that only a few thousand star systems in the Orion Arm have been explored in detail by humanity and the Covenant. The state of the wider galaxy is a mystery except for small islands of knowledge recovered from Forerunner vaults or through special pioneer missions.” -Halo Warfleet Page 12
>
> Halo Fleet Guide Page 52
>
> “The Covenant Controlled thousands of Star Systems at the height of its Power.”
>
> By comparison we know the UNSC controller only 800 colonies other than Earth. When you take into account that solar systems can support more then one colony world, that means the Covenant sphere could number anywhere between 1,000 - 100,000 worlds.
>
> I’d call most numbers between those 2 figures substantially larger in terms of population and raw materials then what the UNSC has access too.

We know that by 2492 the UNSC controlled over 800 colonies, so by 2525 you could actually be looking at upwards of 900 colonies or more. And 1,000 planets would really fall under “hundreds” with 100,000 falling under “tens of thousands”. Technically “thousands” really means anywhere between 2,000 and 19,999. Given the quote I already gave you, where the Covenant and UNSC combined have only explored a few thousand systems, I’d personally be inclined to lean on the lower end of “thousands”.

And star system doesn’t necessarily translate to colony. Technically the Covenant controlled the Soell system for a short time, despite not having any notable infrastructure or population stationed there. This is important because both Warfleet and Waypoint pretty consistently puts the Covenant at controlling only hundreds of worlds.

“Over the millennia of Covenant expansion and conquest, High Charity gorged on the wealth of hundreds of worlds.” -Halo Warfleet page 56

“Hundreds of docking platforms and spires received merchants, tithe-fleets, and emissaries from a thousand Covenant worlds.” -Halo Warfleet page 57

“This Covenant, as it was called, would eventually incorporate several species from across the Orion Arm into a powerful, unified empire stretching across hundreds of worlds” -Halo Waypoint San’Shyuum entry

So the Covenant controlled somewhere between 200 to 1999 worlds, and in this case I’d be inclined to lean on the higher end. Regardless though, my original point was that the Covenant weren’t located ten thousand light years away, they were confined to the Orion Arm just like the UNSC.

> 2535433369016861;17:
> > 2533274853837831;16:
> > > 2535433369016861;14:
> > > The reason the UNSC never attempted a land invasion of a Covenant planet is because there was no point. Unlike the Covenant, the UNSC had little interest in Forerunner artifacts and therefore had no reason to perform a costly land invasion instead of just outright nuking the planet, which is exactly what they did to at least three Covenant worlds (Zhoist, Saepon’kal, Glyke).
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274853837831;13:
> > > > As others have already pointed out, even if the UNSC has the capability to take a Covenant controlled world, they never could have held it against the numerically and technologically superior fleets the Covenant could have fielded to retake the world, or worlds in question.
> > > >
> > > > If you can’t hold something, there is no point in expending resources to take it in the first place. Add to that the fact that the Covenant occupies a vast portion of the Milky Way Galaxy, and you also need to take into account travelling times. UNSC space is only a fraction of the size of Covenant space, and before the war it took about a full year for one ship to traverse the distance from one side of human space to the other. This means it would likely take a minimum of a year for a UNSC invasion force to reach a planet whose loss would sorely hurt the Covenant war effort, and keeping that invasion force supplied would be another matter.
> > > >
> > > > That’s why the largest offensives the UNSC ever mounted against the Covenant in their own territory were little more then special forces raids against border outposts.
> > > >
> > > > Is does beg the question whether the UNSC defensive campaign ever had a chance of winning them the war, as there seemed to be a belief that the Covenant would simply run out of steam before they reached Earth.
> > >
> > > They weren’t that much bigger.
> > >
> > > “The Milky Way galaxy is vast, with hundreds of billions of stars separated by incomprehensible distances and tangled slipspace routes. Limited resources and other distractions mean that only a few thousand star systems in the Orion Arm have been explored in detail by humanity and the Covenant. The state of the wider galaxy is a mystery except for small islands of knowledge recovered from Forerunner vaults or through special pioneer missions.” -Halo Warfleet Page 12
> >
> > Halo Fleet Guide Page 52
> >
> > “The Covenant Controlled thousands of Star Systems at the height of its Power.”
> >
> > By comparison we know the UNSC controller only 800 colonies other than Earth. When you take into account that solar systems can support more then one colony world, that means the Covenant sphere could number anywhere between 1,000 - 100,000 worlds.
> >
> > I’d call most numbers between those 2 figures substantially larger in terms of population and raw materials then what the UNSC has access too.
>
> We know that by 2492 the UNSC controlled over 800 colonies, so by 2525 you could actually be looking at upwards of 900 colonies or more. And 1,000 planets would really fall under “hundreds” with 100,000 falling under “tens of thousands”. Technically “thousands” really means anywhere between 2,000 and 19,999. Given the quote I already gave you, where the Covenant and UNSC combined have only explored a few thousand systems, I’d personally be inclined to lean on the lower end of “thousands”.
>
> And star system doesn’t necessarily translate to colony. Technically the Covenant controlled the Soell system for a short time, despite not having any notable infrastructure or population stationed there. This is important because both Warfleet and Waypoint pretty consistently puts the Covenant at controlling only hundreds of worlds.
>
> “Over the millennia of Covenant expansion and conquest, High Charity gorged on the wealth of hundreds of worlds.” -Halo Warfleet page 56
>
> “Hundreds of docking platforms and spires received merchants, tithe-fleets, and emissaries from a thousand Covenant worlds.” -Halo Warfleet page 57
>
> “This Covenant, as it was called, would eventually incorporate several species from across the Orion Arm into a powerful, unified empire stretching across hundreds of worlds” -Halo Waypoint San’Shyuum entry
>
> So the Covenant controlled somewhere between 200 to 1999 worlds, and in this case I’d be inclined to lean on the higher end. Regardless though, my original point was that the Covenant weren’t located ten thousand light years away, they were confined to the Orion Arm just like the UNSC.

Where is it quoted that the Covenant is restricted to the Orion arm?

It sounds familiar to what I’ve heard before, but at the same time I recall and offhand comment from Halo First Strike stating that the Covenant fleet Truth assembled to invade Earth has been drawn from “across the galaxy”

Either way Halo Warfleet states the UNSC dominates “hundreds” of Star Systems, while the Covenant by comparison dominates “thousands” of Star Systems.

I take that comparison at face value and assume the Covenant at least populates it’s Star systems as much as the UNSC does, which would likely give it a ten fold advantage in terms of access to raw materials, population and travelling distances. (It may be less then this, but my gut feeling is the systems are likely much more heavily settled in terms of military infrastructure when you take into account they’ve had 3,500 years to exploit these systems resources, in comparison to the 2-3 centuries the UNSC have had)

> 2533274853837831;18:
> > 2535433369016861;17:
> > > 2533274853837831;16:
> > > > 2535433369016861;14:
> > > > The reason the UNSC never attempted a land invasion of a Covenant planet is because there was no point. Unlike the Covenant, the UNSC had little interest in Forerunner artifacts and therefore had no reason to perform a costly land invasion instead of just outright nuking the planet, which is exactly what they did to at least three Covenant worlds (Zhoist, Saepon’kal, Glyke).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274853837831;13:
> > > > > As others have already pointed out, even if the UNSC has the capability to take a Covenant controlled world, they never could have held it against the numerically and technologically superior fleets the Covenant could have fielded to retake the world, or worlds in question.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you can’t hold something, there is no point in expending resources to take it in the first place. Add to that the fact that the Covenant occupies a vast portion of the Milky Way Galaxy, and you also need to take into account travelling times. UNSC space is only a fraction of the size of Covenant space, and before the war it took about a full year for one ship to traverse the distance from one side of human space to the other. This means it would likely take a minimum of a year for a UNSC invasion force to reach a planet whose loss would sorely hurt the Covenant war effort, and keeping that invasion force supplied would be another matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s why the largest offensives the UNSC ever mounted against the Covenant in their own territory were little more then special forces raids against border outposts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is does beg the question whether the UNSC defensive campaign ever had a chance of winning them the war, as there seemed to be a belief that the Covenant would simply run out of steam before they reached Earth.
> > > >
> > > > They weren’t that much bigger.
> > > >
> > > > “The Milky Way galaxy is vast, with hundreds of billions of stars separated by incomprehensible distances and tangled slipspace routes. Limited resources and other distractions mean that only a few thousand star systems in the Orion Arm have been explored in detail by humanity and the Covenant. The state of the wider galaxy is a mystery except for small islands of knowledge recovered from Forerunner vaults or through special pioneer missions.” -Halo Warfleet Page 12
> > >
> > > Halo Fleet Guide Page 52
> > >
> > > “The Covenant Controlled thousands of Star Systems at the height of its Power.”
> > >
> > > By comparison we know the UNSC controller only 800 colonies other than Earth. When you take into account that solar systems can support more then one colony world, that means the Covenant sphere could number anywhere between 1,000 - 100,000 worlds.
> > >
> > > I’d call most numbers between those 2 figures substantially larger in terms of population and raw materials then what the UNSC has access too.
> >
> > We know that by 2492 the UNSC controlled over 800 colonies, so by 2525 you could actually be looking at upwards of 900 colonies or more. And 1,000 planets would really fall under “hundreds” with 100,000 falling under “tens of thousands”. Technically “thousands” really means anywhere between 2,000 and 19,999. Given the quote I already gave you, where the Covenant and UNSC combined have only explored a few thousand systems, I’d personally be inclined to lean on the lower end of “thousands”.
> >
> > And star system doesn’t necessarily translate to colony. Technically the Covenant controlled the Soell system for a short time, despite not having any notable infrastructure or population stationed there. This is important because both Warfleet and Waypoint pretty consistently puts the Covenant at controlling only hundreds of worlds.
> >
> > “Over the millennia of Covenant expansion and conquest, High Charity gorged on the wealth of hundreds of worlds.” -Halo Warfleet page 56
> >
> > “Hundreds of docking platforms and spires received merchants, tithe-fleets, and emissaries from a thousand Covenant worlds.” -Halo Warfleet page 57
> >
> > “This Covenant, as it was called, would eventually incorporate several species from across the Orion Arm into a powerful, unified empire stretching across hundreds of worlds” -Halo Waypoint San’Shyuum entry
> >
> > So the Covenant controlled somewhere between 200 to 1999 worlds, and in this case I’d be inclined to lean on the higher end. Regardless though, my original point was that the Covenant weren’t located ten thousand light years away, they were confined to the Orion Arm just like the UNSC.
>
> Where is it quoted that the Covenant is restricted to the Orion arm?
>
> It sounds familiar to what I’ve heard before, but at the same time I recall and offhand comment from Halo First Strike stating that the Covenant fleet Truth assembled to invade Earth has been drawn from “across the galaxy”
>
> Either way Halo Warfleet states the UNSC dominates “hundreds” of Star Systems, while the Covenant by comparison dominates “thousands” of Star Systems.
>
> I take that comparison at face value and assume the Covenant at least populates it’s Star systems as much as the UNSC does, which would likely give it a ten fold advantage in terms of access to raw materials, population and travelling distances. (It may be less then this, but my gut feeling is the systems are likely much more heavily settled in terms of military infrastructure when you take into account they’ve had 3,500 years to exploit these systems resources, in comparison to the 2-3 centuries the UNSC have had)

“Limited resources and other distractions mean that only a few thousand star systems in the Orion Arm have been explored in detail by humanity and the Covenant.”

“This Covenant, as it was called, would eventually incorporate several species from across the Orion Arm” -Waypoint San’shyuum entry and Warfleet page 12

I don’t recall First Strike but I know at least the old Halo Wars website did make mention of the Covenant taking over a “large” part of the galaxy. There might be a few other contradicting sources but generally I believe the Covenant are portrayed as remaining in the Orion Arm.

Ten fold population sounds about right, I’ve always had the number 200 billion in my head for the Covenant, which is only a little less than half of that.

You might be pleased to know that, unless the UNSC has some really impressive industrial feats we haven’t seen yet, the Covenant beats the UNSC by far more than just ten times when it comes to military infrastructure and access to raw materials. High Charity alone outweighs the entire known UNSC navy, and the Ring of Mighty Abundance in Halo Silent Storm is even larger than High Charity. You also have the CSO’s that have been calced to weigh 350 billion tons. With at least 3 CSO’s or possibly as many as 23 as of Halo Oblivion, as well as the similarly sized Unyielding Hierophant. By comparison, the Infinity doesn’t even weigh a billion tons, with your average Frigate less than a million.

Again, travel time isn’t really a thing. The UNSC reached Zhoist in like a week I believe, and it was quite a major Covenant planet.

> 2535434930211268;9:
> Damn, so they did a fair share of raids on strategical locations but no planetary invasions? Humanity truly was on the deffensive then.
> Edit- switched offensive to deffensive.

There wasn’t anything for them to hit for the most part. The Covenant didn’t tend to hold human planets they attacked, they just glassed them to hell and went on their merry way.
I mean, Harvest MIGHT count.