Unpopular opinion: opening up Halo Infinite as a platform for additional highly-skilled creators who may monetize their creations is good for consumers/players

Games Halo Infinite
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Yeah, and cloud storage isn’t exactly the most effective nor is it cheap,
Do you honestly think that 343i or Microsoft will allow people to develop assets outside of their development framework for Halo infinite? God no, they would never touch that even it it were shoving money down its throat.

It doesn’t exactly matter that Microsoft could totally set up and maintain a dedicated cloud server for Thousands of Terabytes of user created items. When the system itself would constitute a net loss.

Not to mention that they would need to create a curation system to allow people to search for any quality content, when user generated content is pumped out in mass.

Halo infinite can BARELY handle loading the main menu,
do you really think loading in Hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of user generated assets is viable in anyway?

This isn’t a subject you can handwave away like you just tried to do with, “bruh cloud storage”.
As if that were a solution for ANYTHING. It is not.

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how i imagine forge+ would be is within 343 and Microsoft’s development framework. it seems to me that the curation system was already in place with halo 5 forge. the content browser worked, and we could also go online to halowaypoint and search, bookmark and favorite maps and gametypes and screenshots etc and play them in halo 5 custom games. halo infinite has something similar already implemented.

i know that an update would be required to the mainmenu in order to load user generated assets digitally signed by forge+ dev tools. and i know that other players running a default mainmenu who try to join someone running a nondefault mainmenu would definitely require an update.

even if the hardware requirements for xbox owners increase slightly to run nondefault mainmenus for community content, they would have to buy a new xbox anyway. while we’re talking making new xboxes, lets make them compatible with Mark VI mjolnir VR helmets for forge+ subscribers

this is no small task to be sure. in the pursuit of these lofty ambitions inspired by the indomitable american spirit to always push the limits of what is possible, many new and interesting challenges are presented which provides room for growth for fresh new talents and the stability of subscription-funding for industy veterans.

does this make sense?

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Wasn’t a typo, was 100% intentional.

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A very poignent observation ser @BlueDevistator!

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Look, I don’t know who you’re talking to with all of that ramble, but I’m not out here to die on any hills. The latest would have me believe that monetizing prefabricated builds will be an implemented feature and I’m not opposed to it.

It’s being described as an option for Forgers. Not a requirement. Could be that nobody ever uses it, or it could be that only certain people do. We don’t know anything about it.

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He’s trying to do a Minecraft marketplace sort of thing. That’s the short version.

Now, you can understand why I would be distrustful of the motives behind monetization of forge right?

It’s kinda the same feeling I got when Infinite’s multiplayer was announced to be free 2 play.

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If it was utterly custom made, like new stuff via slipspace development not just a forge rearrangement of 343 objects, I’d pay a lot. Halo is the only game I’ve spent money on in the last 5 years. But those who naysay the concept of a high-value marketplace aren’t considering how much faster small/lean studios or hobbyist teams could turn around excellent materials and therefore so much cheaper.

In my experience working in a gargantuan company, it costs way too much to make one widget. There are 50-150 people who do one thing to make the widget, manage the data, assign a task, outsource the task, QC the outsourcer, send revisions to the outsourcers, time delays working with people across the world, then someone to move the files, manage the files, update the files, then some director or VP somewhere who changes the parameters and the process has to start over from the beginning. Even if the creative material gets to the finish line there are an army of lawyers and red tape to go through. They could spike it at any time. All of these people who actually touch the widget have useless managers, HR “business partners” who’s job it is to interfere with widget making by enforcing silly policies that have nothing to do with the project except to suffocate the creatives who could innovate but are suppressed by dull ineffective superiors. Then there are the marketing departments, sales departments, etc. All these people have to be paid their salary and benefits or contract so it takes like $750k to make one map that needs 50k sales of armor customizations at $15 a pop. (I’m making up the numbers.)

In a situation where that gargantuan company maintains the development tools, smaller and more lean groups or dev teams could take excellent ideas from start to finish with great polish in lightning-fast time and for $50k worth of dev time and sell it to uses for literally $2. 50k purchases at $2 is $100k, $70k to the team who released the content, $30k to 343 for providing the tools, vetting copyright, and their end of things.

This is why I keep writing over and over in different ways that if 343 uses their momentum to polish the platform, then many smaller/leaner groups take risks to front the labor to create excellent content and publish on a marketplace, users/players invest in experiences or customizations they want and the ecosystem flourishes with ample content made by leaner groups, 343 perfects the platform, and players pay for the game however it suits them or pay nothing at all.

That’s all to say, to create one thing in a big company it costs a whole lot, but a smaller and lean team could do it instantly and develop it so, so much cheaper.

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This is what I am talking about!

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This ratio hits real hard haha

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Sometimes ya gotta ratio.

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Myself and op are having a back and forth thank you very much.

And I got to a point of understanding what he was after and it’s still a horrific idea. Launcher, storefront, or engine application like unreal. Not for it at all, and extremely distrustful given the state of studio/consumer relations

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Anyone agreeing with this and suggesting such things are all thats wrong with the gaming community this is why companies are making games that have no heart and are focused on earning increased and long term income and thats all! When bungie done halo and it was in its prime once you bought the game that was it they did not expect people to pay for simple things that should come included with the game! This free to play crap and monitorising or wahyever is destroying the passion that used to go into games

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Sounds like a good way to make sure no one ever plays Halo custom games again.

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Bungie released map pack expansions, at least two! :man_shrugging:t2:

If you read the evolution of the post, sure a lot of people want forge free of costs to the consumer.

The pivot has to do with offloading development tools with access to slipspace given directly to creators who could publish their own scenarios and real custom materials. Forge allows you to use stuff 343 has created but what I’ve suggested would allow, let’s say, custom-made armor, AI voices, announcer voices, scripted scenarios with custom animations, etc. Things out of scope for forge.

I’m saying some form of deep access beyond forge where creators have incentive to publish content.

Another point is that it costs a lot more for 343 to develop and publish something a smaller studio could create in a fraction of the time and at a fraction of the cost. In a f2p model that we have now, it gives players more content to consume rather than wait 6 months between seasons and it’d be like $5 instead of $12 or something.

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Forge+

mark VI VR helmets

halo infinite 2

New VR xboxes with good VR titles that aren’t halo and at the same time sell enough copies to make halo even better and live forever

people who are unfamiliar with halo need their own hero’s who live beneath master chief

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Monetizing any of these and effectively forcing people to pay for it results in a situation where people play with the system like they did when Bethesda attempted to monetize mods.

That lasted about a week, on the Steam Workshop.

What you’re talking about, is releasing tools so that players can create mods for the game, and then players will in turn be allowed to monetize their creations to sell to the community. This never works. Over in Skyrim and Fallout 4 land, I would wager and say that most people do not pay for mods in the Creation Club and instead either ignore the paid ones or find free ones to replace them (and the free ones are usually of substantially higher quality).

I personally do not have a single issue with a tip-jar system, where if you like what you’re describing as a mod, you can tip the content creator whatever sum you feel is appropriate. But putting in paywalls is not going to be good for the game or the consumers, and especially not in a situation like this where everyone except for whales are looking at the existing paid content and staying far, far away from it.

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Microtransactions were originally designed for f2p games. Infinite is not a f2p game and for 343 to add the the nonsense to the game ruined the experience of playing a Halo game.

What makes matters worse is knowing it’s a broken game that isn’t even anywhere near to being a complete game, and they can’t even get the basics of Halo game added to the game let alone working right a year into it.

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This is exactly opposite of how market economics work. When you go to the store to buy food, everything is behind a paywall. You’re expected to pay for food, deodorant, electronics, etc. Physical goods. If the consumer didn’t pay for it, all of the hands that had to touch the product before it arrived at the store wouldn’t have a reason to provide the physical goods.

In socialist countries, manufacturing, supply, transportation, etc are controlled/owned as a monopoly by the government. There are only single options for each kind of food or products the government deems necessary. If the government runs out of food, the people run out of food, there are no competitors who are allowed to offer alternative foods at lower costs.

This is not a comparison of 343 to socialism, far from it, the comparison is supply and demand.

If the demand for content, be it whatever forge cannot supply, and if 343 introduced competitors to its own content creation department, than these small studios, hobbyists, college students, etc may supply additional optional content acceptable for the player base. It goes without saying that the quality bar would have to be high and not as a mod but as additional material for the actual game.

There is a balance to strike, but ultimately, if more content is what players want, than more groups willing to contribute high level content for some sort of compensation is what would have to happen.

343 is part of a deep corporate landscape. As a member of such a company not affiliated with Microsoft or 343, it takes not only a lot of time but a ton of personnelle to do very simple things. That’s why armor in the infinite store is so expensive at $12-$15 USD.

If a group of passionate artists submitted armor pieces for review at 343 and the materials neither ripped of with 343’s IP or plans, and 343 supplied the means for that group to do so, than what costs 343 10,000 man hours costs this group 50-100 hours. By allowing more options in the store and allowing smaller groups to risk their time, a purchase could be $3 for the consumer and it cost 343 little to zero time except to review and approve.

This would free up 343 to focus on season passes or whatever they want to do.

Armor added to the game is an example.

If 343 turned halo into a platform and allowed more highly skilled creators to create (far and beyond what’s available in forge), than they would be able to solve for the dearth of content and focus on things only 343 can do for halo, ie mainline story content, game features, socialization, competitive HCS stuff, networking, interface, etc.

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The game incurs costs by simply existing. Electricity to pay for servers and bandwidth over the internet. The MP game is available without an Xbox live subscription and without buying the main game.

Who pays for the electricity and bandwidth of the servers? Who pays the tech people maintaining the servers? What pays for the initial investment to release the game at all?

The game can’t simply exist, someone has to pay for it.

If players aren’t paying for the game, they don’t get a vote on how the game runs, how sucky the de-sync is, or the lackluster events and season content.

I’m saying given that 343 has a limit on man power, if some content creation were offloaded to very skilled creators, not forgers who are a separate class all together, but 3D modelers, storytellers, artists, technical artists, voice actors, animators, etc who are free to risk their time in exchange for compensation, and if the content were compelling enough, than it would be more affordable and faster to market than if 343 did it themselves.

If 343 frees up time from content creation to focus on networking, social features, etc than more beneficial things happen concurrently to attract veteran and new players to the platform.

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Something like that. More like the apple app or google play stores.

Mods have their place, same with forge, submissions to steam workshops, etc.

I’m saying more like big boys with their big boy pants on who know their expertise at game making, modeling, animation, storytelling, etc who have the option to make nearly anything in the game and release it direct to consumers via halo infinite’s store.

A true creative work is difficult to rip off. I’m not saying players should have to pay for some teenager who rearranges objects in forge with 343-made objects and features. All of that belongs to 343.

A true creative work are objects not available in the game like acting, voices, animation, stories, scenarios, functions, methods, variables, weapons, textures, that are arranged into some worthwhile product.

If compelling enough, it would be worth buying because it entertains in some way.

If not worth buying, it didn’t cost 343 time and didn’t cost the players frustration.