Unpopular opinion: opening up Halo Infinite as a platform for additional highly-skilled creators who may monetize their creations is good for consumers/players

[MS_Ark]

Ultimately my main concern is what introducing financial incentives does to a community.
What it does to a communities Eco-system.

Previously, in older Halo Titles;
The community around Forge was purely for the joy of creation,

In Halo 3 the main contributer to forge content was things posted in Fileshare,
People creating angel wings made of out Sniper rifles and Spartan Lasers,
Players making massive intricate racetracks using glitches.

Halo: Reach,
People were able to create massively popular game modes with tons of new features.
People created roleplay maps, or hosted BtB Style mini Warzones.

Basically the same for Halo 4 and 5, tho the physics system in those were scuffed.

Once you involve money as a cornerstone of the community,
All of that disappears,
You might get a few Gems of of it,
but, Much Like the website Itch.IO ;
you will get a ton of trash, trash the people want you to pay for.
Trash that will use a Ton of Recycled concepts and content.

Example;
A popular custom forge map included a weird custom Scarab/Pelican/Warthog creation?
Well, expect a ton of maps within the next week to ALSO include the metal abomination.

Spooky forest map with a ton of fog and secrets? For Infection and ViP Variants?
Welp, expect a ton of maps using THAT EXACT SAME CONCEPT.

But also each and every one of them will cost you 2$s each to download and host.

The Sad reality of it is that,
People are just going to copy/steal from each other,
Honest and original content is going to end up buried by copy cats trying to ride the coat tails of someone elses success.

We’ll end up with the same problem that Steam has,
Millions of Options; less than 1% of them are good and worth any ones time.

Another part of that sad reality is,
All those people who we’re making the maps for fun?

They become alienated,
Why would they ever make content, knowing full well that someone next week will Steal their ideas and republish them?
Why would they spend the 100’s of hours making maps, when there will be 100 other maps on sale with ideas that are 99% the exact same as theirs?
Why would anyone spend time time developing content that will never be seen, because some other developer has the money to spend on advertising their paid content, on places like Twitter or Discored or Facebook?

Paid content would ultimately be the death of the forge community,

[MS_Ark]

Also, sorry.
I’m very good at typing alot.

[Obliticutter]

Monetizing Forge will kill content creation in the game. It will prevent players from having access to create content that can be used to bolster the multiplayer suite. If we are hoping for Certain Affinity’s new mode to bring back players, we need that Forge content throughout the rest of the multiplayer offering to retain them. This ain’t it.

[Sodium_Bath]

Counter opinion : releasing a game complete with all the core features first before releasing paid support for said features is better for consumers.

@l_HyperLethal_l

I really would rather forge creations be driven by passion rather than money.

Ditto. Look at what Tennogen did to Warframe. While it started out strong and people really got creative and brought much to the game, there have been black sheep who started drama over their pieces not being chosen and creating a rift in the creative community as far as Warframe is concerned.

[XP3C]

No

Forge has always been driven by creativity as opposed to monetary gain and it should stay that way.

[B84_W56_H88]

The game launched and still is (8 months later) in an absolute laughably terrible state.

I don’t know if Forge will bring back any substantial amount of players but adding another money grabbing scheme will absolutely put it into the ground for good.

[N7_Sinner]

Popular Opinion: Monetizing Forge Creations would be disastrous for the community in the long-term.

Halo: Infinite’s population is already on a steady downwards decline due to several unaddressed issues plaguing it currently (Desync is apparently still a major issue that has yet to be addressed in the time that I’ve spent playing anything other than Infinite). How would it look to those that remained in the hopes that the game would miraculously improve or those that, like me, might return to the game if Forge actually delivers upon release if said feature was muddied with the introduction of yet another form of monetization?

While I could see the proposed feature succeeding in the short-term, I could very well see it [Forge] dying upon arrival as well as driving an even larger wedge between the community and 343I due to the game’s already infamous reputation. 343I has already proven themselves inept at solving several key problems that are still plaguing the game, yet the Store is fully functional and never once had any issues in the time that I played the game. If 343I were to monetize Forge features, it could, no, would, artistically bankrupt the community due to the desire to create for the sake of profit over creativity.

343I spending less time formulating more monetization schemes and actually delivering upon their promises and giving us the game that we all wanted from the very beginning is what would truly be best for the community/consumer. Until I know for certain that the game is actually improving, and that Forge is actually going to deliver, I, for one, am going to remain far and away from Infinite.

[Mitty_Oo]

Like explained in a different Thread:
I just don’t see how this could work on a technical level.

• You can Co-Create Maps with friends in the same session. Everyone needs the same permissions to do so. It’s a huge obstacle if only 1 player buys an item and the others don’t.

• Forge lives from sharing creations. This also means opening a Map you found in the file browser and edit it further on your own. As long as there is 1 monetized item on a map, you kinda can’t share it anymore. Or you could use this mechanic to cheat your way into getting monetized items by opening the maps of others.

This doesn’t mean any sort of credit for the creators would be bad!
I would find it very interesting if you get some kind of In-game Credits for every lobby-match played on your map, so you could at least buy something from the store, as a little “thank you” by the developers.

But in the end, if you really want to make a small margin:
Become a streamer and open a Patreaon account or whatever.
This way, people can just tip you if they like your stuff. Perhaps 343 could integrate a connection somehow, so you can easily see how to tip the map creators.

[WSerg]

did someone just say diabolo 3 marketplace?
why don’t you just ask 343 where to send them your money if you are so happy to spend some? it would save you time and 343 (or any of the other greedy AAA game devs/publishers) wouldn’t have to bother making a marketplace like halo infinite is. this would also save us the struggle to try out these games.
(and if you really think this idea would benefit any content creators on a similar level then the investors behind microsoft, then just send these content creators the money directly)

[KCD0DGER]

People like you are the world is in the state it’s in right now, thinking every single thing has to be driven by profit, by the grind, making money.

Some things, we wish to do for love, for the passion of it - no. Enough of this ivory tower jargon. To your ideas I prep a molotov or ten.

Your mindset on this is exhaustive to people and heartless. Your beliefs are why every one of us is exhausted at day jobs for barely-enough compensation and garnished wages, with little to no company healthcare.

Enough.

Just ENOUGH. Stop trying to monetize every. Single. Thing.

[UEG_HOOCH_XO]

@MS_Ark

Paid content would ultimately be the death of the forge community,

There are a lot of people saying this. Makes sense.

I see the mistake in the title of the thread and the initial post. How about a pivot:

Let us say that everything that ships with the game that 343 makes (models, skins, add-ons, whatever) is 343 property. Doesn’t matter which player does what with 343’s property because all you’re doing is rearranging the content that 343 provides you. That’s why it’s community content, people can share, reopen, tweak, re-save, all that. Forge and the concept and history behind forge is improved with the halo infinite set of tools. Forge as we know it isn’t monetized.

Set aside forge.

By opening up development tools and a formal submission process, review, vetting by a third party or by 343, a real Indy game studio makes new custom-made content from scratch. Whatever it is. Not a rearranging 343’s property into a version of blood gulch (forge community) but modeling a new map via Maya or Blender or a 3D modeling program, New textures, new objects, new voice acting, rigging, animations, a new story to tell, etc. This is stuff 343 didn’t make, but they make the development tools that package original assets into the game engine for use. Before publishing, the reviewer ensures anything unique to the Indy developer is solidly “protected” and doesn’t imitate another halo creator’s materials or copyright of an outside entity or directly compete with the official halo story. These materials aren’t copied and reposted, it’s made from the ground up by the developer and reuses only some 343-supplied materials that may be available in forge.

Not “a mod” or a rearranging of objects or features 343 made. New custom objects or additions to a development environment that tell stories or unique experiences.

By opening up the game at a level like this, would it not allow even more creativity by really talented artists and passionate game devs?

[cam8528]

this is what i’m talking about

for example what if i want to make a Y manifold in my forge map and meld it using solid tools to another wall/ceiling/floor of the map collision geometry?

forge should be free and accessible and it should not be monetized. there will be NO paywall to access halo infinite forge.

at the same time, if really dedicated content creators want to use solid tools in their map and extruding a curved face along some uniquely crafted tangent, then there should be a clearly outlined path for them to take to lease and access locally parts of the advanced development software package used by 343.

[SPRTNWindsor]

I try to keep an open mind generally but I completely disagree. I dont even use forge but i enjoy peoples’ creations. A monetised forge would make me find something else to do.

[HozerDude]

I have never paid for Custom Mods Or Customs Maps nor will I ever since Halo Combat Evolved. There were some awesome custom maps for Halo Combat Evolved And Halo CE.

We did not have forge back then. We had to use a program called “Sparkedit”. It was real B…ch to use but it worked.

In past Halo Games there have been thousands of custom maps and custom mods that you had access to for free. Granted some maps and mods were crap. But there have been thousands of awesome maps and mods you did not have to pay for,

Example: Halo 5 there were thousands prefabs you could get for free. Most people including myself took pride of our maps and prefabs. What was really gratifying was to see your maps, mods and prefabs being played on other people’s servers. That was our compensation for doing a job well done.

Like the old saying goes: “A job well done is better than a job well said!”

Side Note: We need our own dedicated server software and to be able to save our own maps and mods on our own storage devices.

Peace!

[BlitzGear02]

Forge stays free or I riot. Prefabs can be monetized by their hard-working makers, as they deserve such reward.

Keyword is can. I imagine that just as many Forgers will forgo the option to keep the spirit of Forge intact.

[HozerDude]

@BlitzGear02

I imagine that just as many Forgers will forgo the option to keep the spirit of Forge intact.

AMEN BROTHER!

Peace!

[Revan_XVIV]

@UEG_HOOCH_XO

How does the player base support game developers if not through an exchange of money for service or products?

BY PURCHASING THE GAME! Why is this such a hard concept?! Free to play is a scam, Halo SHOULD NEVER have gone fee to pay, and microtransactions have no logical reason to exist outside of GREED.

Games did just fine before microtransactions came along, in fact they did better in the long run BEFORE MTX infected the industry.

[HozerDude]

@Revan_XVIV

BY PURCHASING THE GAME! Why is this such a hard concept?

I have no problems paying $60 for a game, but all the features I want have to be fixed before I buy the game.

IE: Custom Games Area, Custom Game Browser and Forge.

I am not a beta tester!

Peace!

[UEG_HOOCH_XO]

@Revan_XVIV

BY PURCHASING THE GAME!

I’m in agreement. Unfortunately buying the MP game now, as free-to-play, means buying pieces of it a little bit at a time or a “subscription” to season passes.

@Revan_XVIV

microtransactions have no logical reason to exist outside of GREED.

In a monopoly, yes, the micro transactions may become that as 343 is the sole source of content. If more developers, Indy and hobbyists or otherwise, are able to post new content more frequently than 343 can create new content and the devs can pay their bills in order to do so, than the player base gets more content, more options, and 343 devotes more resources to fixing the annoying issues (desync and others) plaguing the game.

@Revan_XVIV

Games did just fine before microtransactions came along

I remember at the onset of the Xbox One / PS4 era that game devs had to either produce mega blockbuster titles with tens of millions of purchases to get a profit or suffer scraping by from game to game teetering on bankruptcy.

“Outsourcing” content development to independent or hobbyists lowers costs and offsets the risks to smaller groups that can innovate better than corporations can with all the red tape and personnelle issues.

What if content from the marketplace was $1 for spartan ops - like scenarios?

$2 for licensed crossover armor and weapon customizations to your favorite sports teams?

$8/mo for your own server space with your custom-made maps and modes (created in slipspace not just a forge creation) that players download on demand but they’re unable to repost, modify or use outside your server?

Competition drives down prices and a marketplace allows others to take risks and reap a reward for real custom content.

[UEG_HOOCH_XO]

As the original poster, I’m definitely not a 343 false flag operative, lol.

I’m just some guy arguing the unpopular viewpoint; devil’s advocate.

It’s silly to simultaneously expect a free game and expect it to be free forever with expectations of new content and better quality player experiences.

As an employee somewhere, do you expect your employer to pay you your wage in exchange for labor or a skill or service or would you do it for free?

Are you a business owner and do you expect to service customers for free while paying employees out of your own pocket?

I’m saying let us eat our cake and have it too, by opening up slipspace and dev tools (perhaps that includes forge) to more talent, more content may be created and available at cheaper prices. More risks, more reward, more content.