Unpopular opinion. I like Halo 5....kind of.

Hey guys,

I’m sure this has been posted about but I wanted to get my two cents out there, though I realize H6 is most likely too far along in development for this to make a difference. First, some background. I’ve been playing since 05, could have played before but I didn’t have access to an xbox. My best memories were stomping around Delta Halo with ODSTs, and I still remember my first match on xbox live. Back then not everyone had xbl, and you would run the gauntlet of competing with all of your neighbors to see who was the best Halo player. The chance to test my skills against other people across the world was fricken mind blowing. So needless to say, I’m not new to this series, and I guess I’m kind of old school when it comes to this community. But…

I say that to set a precedence before I tell you this: I think Halo 5 has the best multiplayer out of all of them. I know what you’re thinking, sacrilege, but seriously…with the exception of spartan charge and ground pound(which in my opinion need to go, as there is no hard counter, thus they inherently detract from competitive gameplay) H5 has the silkiest, smoothest, and most intuitive gameplay I think I’ve seen(excluding the weapon tuning update which I think ruined the BR). The enhanced mobility, excluding the two abilities I just mentioned, feels like a natural evolution of the gameplay. The ability to duck and strafe adds new depth to gun battles, and the motion tracker is now tuned to be useful but not overpowered. The grenades go exactly where you feel like they should go, and the hitscan means no random BR spread, thank God. That being said, I think there are obviously some things they can do to make this experience better overall.

First of all firefight, or warzone or whatever you want to call it, is absolutely terrible. It’s a great idea, take your friends and go roleplay as spartans on missions. That’s a great idea on paper, however when it comes to execution you end up with the mess that is mythic warzone firefight. Absolutely atrocious in every way. Enemies spawing behind you, or deep in a corner so dense you cant get to the bosses they are protecting(especially since they activate iron skull and you die in 5 hits from a grunt plasma pistol). It’s terrible. I’ll say the same thing here I said in the Ghost Recon forum on Reddit, the way to make things fun and add difficulty at the same time, is not to add enemies that cheat. That is literally the laziest thing you could possibly do as a game dev. I played 8 games of mythic firefight today and lost every single one, because nobody could get to the stupid elder hunters in the back of Escape from ARC. That’s not difficulty 343, that’s a broken game mode.

Second, obviously the art style from the original games needs to come back. That doesn’t mean get rid of the armors we have, though I hate them. Keep seeker for those weirdos that like that crap, but give us more of the stuff we love. Halo has a tone, like Blade Runner or Star Wars. You can’t just walk in and change the BR and Pelican. Like, seriously? What were you guys thinking? Also the old enemies looked better.

Third, again with weapon tuning, you guys need to look at what EA is doing with BFV, and what Ubisoft is doing with Siege. The live service model fits perfectly with this franchise. This gives you the opportunity to test and roll out seamless updates on balancing and bug fixes, while giving the community time to test said implementations. In addition, Warzone should not be a scripted rinse and repeat game mode, but instead should be a sandbox that can be tweaked and made to fit different scenarios. The idea is to keep gameplay fresh, so use it as a tool to think up new adventures which can be changed before they get too stale. This could also be an interesting way to implement what you failed to do with Spartan ops. Think of the Special Operations that Ghost Recon is doing, they just added a mission with Sam Fisher, and it was awesome. Imagine the stories from the Halo universe that could be represented in such an open game mode. This also opens doors for community involvement but that’s a topic for a different time.

And fourth, though I don’t think it really needs to be said at this point, Campaign. Firstly, can I just say how lame the Prometheans are. Every enemy in Halo used to have a weakness. Elites were tough to hit and would hide behind cover, but if you flank them or use grenades you could catch them with their shields down. Or use a sniper rifle or plasma pistol to drop their shields and leave them exposed. Compare this to the gameplay loop for Promethean soldiers. You shoot at them, they dont seem to be affected. You throw a grenade. They teleport away. Finally after 2 boring minutes, you kill them, only to be swarmed by the worlds most infuriating enemy. Crawlers. Yes, crawlers, the things that are invincible unless you shoot them in the face. Or maybe we could even look at knights. You shoot them, they fire back with some ridiculous overpowered weapon, eventually you break through their armor, they charge you and kill you in one melee hit regardless of your health…it’s just boring and cheap. They aren’t fun to fight. The covenant were fun. The flood were challenging but fun. Prometheans are lame, cheating, badly programmed excuses for enemies.

Also, you guys need to seriously hire some writers that know what they’re doing. Despite what the publishers want you to believe, story matters in games. Writing matters. What you did with H4 and Cortana had real emotional value. All of that was lost on H5. Take inspiration from literature if you have to, but appeal to our emotions here. Tell a story that shows character growth and for God’s sake don’t sacrifice the reputation of an established character to show that a new one is bad -Yoink-. Use cinematography techniques from movies, your cutscenes are great, they just need to tell a story that actually invests the players. Then do all of that, have the main character shut the hell up during the gameplay sequences, and bring back that 30 second gameplay loop that got us all hooked, all in a compelling, action packed return to the franchise that honors the original DNA of Halo and doesn’t try to be something it isn’t. It’s that easy.

And on a side note, please never bring back the reticule being in the lower third of the screen. Again I love Halo but I always hated how Bungie decided to do that. It’s so awkward. It’s great where it is in H5. Thanks for reading, and hopefully H6 doesn’t break my heart like Battlefield 5 did.

Jon A045

I don’t think that it’s such an unpopular opinion. Halo 5 as a stand alone game is not the worst, not by a long shot. It may surprise many here that I just wrote that lol.

Halo 5 falls short as a Halo game for me. The shiney spartans, the lack of playable elites, no split screen, the lack of customisation (both character and emblem), the introduction of rng loot boxes, the toning down of blood effects, the lack of a decent btb, a bare bones game at launch etc etc. I could go on but we all know what’s missing. Too much was removed along the way, and some most unsavoury things introduced, like rng loot boxes.

Halo 5 is a great multiplayer experience when you get a local server, it’s not consistent though. Again, other titles do it so much better than Halo 5, Titanfall is the best example imo, server selection with pings from 20ms to 35ms in my case. Halo needs that too.

That’s my opinion.

As for Battlefield 5, I like the look of that. I do need to see more first, I do not trust EA though, if they truly drop loot crates, kudos to them. I’m sceptical at this time.

I’m my opinion I don’t find Halo 5 the best multiplayer, but I will admit it can be fun at sometimes…Only when I’m not versing a sweaty team

> 2535428779736382;3:
> I’m my opinion I don’t find Halo 5 the best multiplayer, but I will admit it can be fun at sometimes…Only when I’m not versing a sweaty team

Alot of people seem to feel the same. While I enjoy the competitive aspects, I don’t think there are enough playlist options for more casual players.

Well, knights do technically have a weakness in H4, which is an overcharged plasma pistol round, but it took me nearly five years to figure that out. I honestly don’t think they have a weakness in H5.

I agree with most of your gripes overall, but one thing I don’t get is the “shiny” argument. Why does everybody think Spartans look shiny in this game? The resolution is obviously higher and the armor is more detailed, but I don’t see the shininess. The only shininess I do see is of certain environment elements used in forge maps, which differ greatly from classic forge maps. That, however, is an art style issue. The shininess present elsewhere in maps like Truth and Mercy actually look pretty cool, though.

My opinions:

  • The appeal of Mythic WZFF is that it is unfair. Halo 2 Legendary Campaign is unfair. People play it because when you finally beat it, you feel like you accomplished something. There’s always Heroic WZFF as well. You win 95% of games there. If you’re just in it for the XP, you should just play Heroic. Mythic WZFF appeals to a very specific group of people. You and I do not fall in that group. - I personally don’t see what the big deal is with the art style. I don’t see much of a difference. However, I do understand that some people have very strong opinions about it. I think that having a mixture of old and new would be nice. Some of the armor sets in Halo 5 need to go and never come back (ahem Seeker ahem Cyclops). I like your idea of having a mixture so there is something for everyone. Alternatively, they can base Halo 6 on the new Halo Wars 2 art style which seemed to have received generally positive opinions from everyone. - Refreshing WZ boss rotations ore frequently would be awesome. 100% agree with you there. I’m personally not a big fan of weapon tuning. I don’t think the weapon tuning update was necessary (The OG sandbox was fine, the new sandbox is fine, but the grey area between the two was absolutely awful). I do not like the idea of frequent weapon tuning updates. I want to know exactly how my guns are going to feel and don’t want that feeling changing every week. - I personally find the Prometheans to be fairly fun to fight. Crawlers are pesky and if you can’t hit their tiny faces they’re really annoying. The H5 watcher are infinitely superior to the H4 ones. They actually, you know, die. The soldier teleportation mechanic is cheap and unfair. I think it should be nerfed so they can’t use it as frequently. I hate it when a soldier teleports 100 meters away from you while completely invincible. This mechanic can go. Otherwise, soldiers are tolerable. they aren’t as tanky as elites, and if you get up close and take out their armor, you can easily get behind them for a quick backsmack/assassination. Knights are… meh. If you don’t know how to fight them they’re awful, and if you do they’re… meh. I like how you have to target the cores to get them to expose their faces momentarily. Prometheans are ok. Halo 5’s campaign was bad (from a story standpoint), and ok from a gameplay standpoint. - I think (97% certain) that 343 hired a new writer.I also like Halo 5… Most of the time. It is a very polarizing game. you either love it or hate it.

And yes, the reticle belongs in the middle of the screen.

> 2535447940912902;5:
> Well, knights do technically have a weakness in H4, which is an overcharged plasma pistol round, but it took me nearly five years to figure that out. I honestly don’t think they have a weakness in H5.
>
> I agree with most of your gripes overall, but one thing I don’t get is the “shiny” argument. Why does everybody think Spartans look shiny in this game? The resolution is obviously higher and the armor is more detailed, but I don’t see the shininess. The only shininess I do see is of certain environment elements used in forge maps, which differ greatly from classic forge maps. That, however, is an art style issue. The shininess present elsewhere in maps like Truth and Mercy actually look pretty cool, though.

They have the large glowing orbs the game tells you to fire at which makes them vulnerable, fitting for the Forerunner version of a Hunter.

And invincible crawlers? Hardly, half of my crawler kills are from shooting the body. They’re more resiliant than the head, but what headshot-capable enemy isn’t?

> 2535405449919732;6:
> My opinions:
> - The appeal of Mythic WZFF is that it is unfair. Halo 2 Legendary Campaign is unfair. People play it because when you finally beat it, you feel like you accomplished something. There’s always Heroic WZFF as well. You win 95% of games there. If you’re just in it for the XP, you should just play Heroic. Mythic WZFF appeals to a very specific group of people. You and I do not fall in that group. - I personally don’t see what the big deal is with the art style. I don’t see much of a difference. However, I do understand that some people have very strong opinions about it. I think that having a mixture of old and new would be nice. Some of the armor sets in Halo 5 need to go and never come back (ahem Seeker ahem Cyclops). I like your idea of having a mixture so there is something for everyone. Alternatively, they can base Halo 6 on the new Halo Wars 2 art style which seemed to have received generally positive opinions from everyone. - Refreshing WZ boss rotations ore frequently would be awesome. 100% agree with you there. I’m personally not a big fan of weapon tuning. I don’t think the weapon tuning update was necessary (The OG sandbox was fine, the new sandbox is fine, but the grey area between the two was absolutely awful). I do not like the idea of frequent weapon tuning updates. I want to know exactly how my guns are going to feel and don’t want that feeling changing every week. - I personally find the Prometheans to be fairly fun to fight. Crawlers are pesky and if you can’t hit their tiny faces they’re really annoying. The H5 watcher are infinitely superior to the H4 ones. They actually, you know, die. The soldier teleportation mechanic is cheap and unfair. I think it should be nerfed so they can’t use it as frequently. I hate it when a soldier teleports 100 meters away from you while completely invincible. This mechanic can go. Otherwise, soldiers are tolerable. they aren’t as tanky as elites, and if you get up close and take out their armor, you can easily get behind them for a quick backsmack/assassination. Knights are… meh. If you don’t know how to fight them they’re awful, and if you do they’re… meh. I like how you have to target the cores to get them to expose their faces momentarily. Prometheans are ok. Halo 5’s campaign was bad (from a story standpoint), and ok from a gameplay standpoint. - I think (97% certain) that 343 hired a new writer.I also like Halo 5… Most of the time. It is a very polarizing game. you either love it or hate it.
>
> And yes, the reticle belongs in the middle of the screen.

Before you read this please don’t misunderstand and think I’m attacking you in any way. I respect your points and value your input, thank you for your response. It was well thought out and received. Now in response…

I never said I didn’t like a challenge. But I’ll say the same thing I’ve been saying, “If it’s too hard go play Heroic” is not the answer to a broken game mode. And no, beating Mythic firefight, and yes I’ve beaten it many times, does not give any semblance of what you’re speaking of. I don’t feel like I accomplished something, I feel like I got one over on the AI. Unlocking Recon in H3 after surviving 12 rounds of firefight in ODST felt like I accomplished something, this doesn’t.

Second, I appreciate your candor, but as I stated previously, it’s about a tone, an artistic identity. If you change that you inherently change the franchise. In small doses this is okay, change isn’t always bad, but in H5 they literally changed EVERYTHING and added in the stuff we loved from the first games as an afterthought. That’s not okay.

As far as the sandbox I really hope the devs see the opportunity here for this game mode. Warzone is a fantastic idea, it’s just poorly utilized. But what I specifically mean goes beyond boss rotations/enemies etc. It extends to everything from scripted, modular mission sets like Spartan Ops, to interactive narratives only previously explored in other forms of media. Imagine if you could literally reenact the novel The Fall of Reach with period specific weapons and vehicles, in Warzone, as part of a quarterly special event, in addition to regularly rotating scenarios that require less development time, yet keep gameplay fresh. Worlds worst run on sentence I know, but that is the scope that is possible with the right implementation and framework.

As far as the prometheans, I just feel like they are bullet sponges. I still haven’t figured out the soldier thing other than empty 3 mags into them until they eventually expose their head, all while they can kill you in 4-5 hits. I also get extremely annoyed when crawlers can apparently shoot your banshee out of the sky. Idk, I guess my major complaint stems from not just halo, but gaming in general these days. There are ways to make games challenging and engaging without resorting to cheeseball AI.

Overall though, you’re right, this is a pretty great game gameplay wise. Hopefully that new writer is worth his salt. Thanks again for the input.

> 2533274814390441;8:
> > 2535405449919732;6:
> >
>
> Before you read this please don’t misunderstand and think I’m attacking you in any way. I respect your points and value your input, thank you for your response. It was well thought out and received. Now in response…
>
> I never said I didn’t like a challenge. But I’ll say the same thing I’ve been saying, “If it’s too hard go play Heroic” is not the answer to a broken game mode. And no, beating Mythic firefight, and yes I’ve beaten it many times, does not give any semblance of what you’re speaking of. I don’t feel like I accomplished something, I feel like I got one over on the AI. Unlocking Recon in H3 after surviving 12 rounds of firefight in ODST felt like I accomplished something, this doesn’t.
>
> Second, I appreciate your candor, but as I stated previously, it’s about a tone, an artistic identity. If you change that you inherently change the franchise. In small doses this is okay, change isn’t always bad, but in H5 they literally changed EVERYTHING and added in the stuff we loved from the first games as an afterthought. That’s not okay.
>
> As far as the sandbox I really hope the devs see the opportunity here for this game mode. Warzone is a fantastic idea, it’s just poorly utilized. But what I specifically mean goes beyond boss rotations/enemies etc. It extends to everything from scripted, modular mission sets like Spartan Ops, to interactive narratives only previously explored in other forms of media. Imagine if you could literally reenact the novel The Fall of Reach with period specific weapons and vehicles, in Warzone, as part of a quarterly special event, in addition to regularly rotating scenarios that require less development time, yet keep gameplay fresh. Worlds worst run on sentence I know, but that is the scope that is possible with the right implementation and framework.
>
> As far as the prometheans, I just feel like they are bullet sponges. I still haven’t figured out the soldier thing other than empty 3 mags into them until they eventually expose their head, all while they can kill you in 4-5 hits. I also get extremely annoyed when crawlers can apparently shoot your banshee out of the sky. Idk, I guess my major complaint stems from not just halo, but gaming in general these days. There are ways to make games challenging and engaging without resorting to cheeseball AI.
>
> Overall though, you’re right, this is a pretty great game gameplay wise. Hopefully that new writer is worth his salt. Thanks again for the input.

Edited out my quote so this isn’t absolutely colossal

I’ve never played Mythic WZFF. All of my opinions come from an external point of view. You, being someone who has played it and has more experience is the expert in this situation. I can totally see what you mean by the victories feeling empty as opposed to similar ones in previous titles (H3 ODST FF, H2 Legendary, etc.). I think the playlist would gain a massive amount of popularity if 343 offered a significant reward for beating it or doing well (tons of XP for the 152 grind? An exclusive cosmetic for beating it?)

I am relatively new to the series (got MCC very late. Halo 5 was my first real Halo, but now I own and have played almost every game). I played through every campaign on MCC (E A S Y . D I F F I C U L T Y) and finished just before H5 came out. I wasn’t yet advanced enough to be critiquing the visual differences between the games. The art styles kind of blurred together which probably leads to my relative indifference on the subject matter. Nothing was genuinely ugly in the old style, and a lot of stuff in the new style is ugly, but there are some hidden gems in the new style (Athlon, Achilles, and Venator to name a few). I think that Halo Wars 2 really nailed the art style. Everything from the old style would fit in, and the better parts of the new art style would as well. I hope Halo 6 looks like HW2.

I really like the idea of themed Warzone events. Giving Firefight more story and more interactivity (pushing buttons, holding multiple bases, seizing areas and holding them for a period of time, etc.) would also be really cool (rather than just running the same “missions” over and over again).

I may be wrong, but it feels like Prometheans (especially soldiers) have WAY more health on higher difficulty levels. They’re almost tolerable on Normal (3 or 4 Lightrifle shots), but they seem to be way too strong on Legendary (> half a Lightrifle clip (scoped!)). I was recently playing Evacuation on Legendary, and I shot one of those sniper Soldiers (that’s pretty much made of paper mache on Normal difficulty) with a Sniper rifle in the chest and it tanked it without even losing its armor. The regular soldiers don’t die to Sniper headshots which is really stupid. I think 343 generally moved in a positive direction with the Prometheans from H4 to H5. The Knights are more challenging (fighting them is like a little minigame), and you can at least tell where a soldier is teleporting (as opposed to the H4 Knights), and the Watchers actually take damage and die. There is still a lot of improvement to be made though. The Knights are a bit too strong and hard to fight, the soldiers have way too much health and the teleportation mechanic is annoying especially when they do it multiple times and cover half the map, and the Watchers have the weirdest hitboxes in the game.

I promised myself this response would be short and now I’ve created another wall of text. Oops.

In terms of just the Multiplayer, Halo 5 is probably my favorite Halo since Halo 3. It captured to competitive feeling that Halo had been lacking since 2007, (although at times a bit too competitive). The only full mainline Halo games to come out between Halo 3 and Halo 5 were Reach and 4, and while I still enjoy them a great deal, I’ve also got some of gripes with them.

Halo: Reach had 0 noticable skill gap. The teams were never balanced, and 75% of the time you would be placed on a team with 3 people who walk (or fly depending on if they’ve got Jet Pack equiped) in a straight line towards enemies, firing off rounds without realizing you have to time your shots in that game due to reticle bloom, which was also abysmal. And then you had the people who mostly sprinted around like headless chickens trying to only pull off assassinations.

Halo 4 removed reticle bloom, but it also got rid of another staple feature, de-scope. Suppressing people who were just waiting with their scopes zoomed in with a Sniper Rifle was pointless, as that only gave them some verticle kick on their screen. On map weapons and equipment were replaced by the custom class feature and ordinance drops, which made combat feel frantic and at times very random.

Halo 5 is in no way a perfect game, but I do have a ton of fun playing it. Giving everybody equal starts through universal weapon loadouts again, reintroducing de-scope, and everybody being equipped with the exact same Spartan Abilities takes the random elements away from the game, and creates an even playing field. It all comes down to how well you’re able to use those abilities and weapons compared to your enemies.

Halo 5 is my favorite multiplayer. The only things I don’t like are spartan charge and the useless BR. I’ve been playing since CE and I have put more time into H5 multiplayer than any other halo game. And I played a lot of H2 and 3