Unofficial Magnum "Changes and Discussion" Thread

In light of the Halo CE remake, a question arises: is the God Pistol coming back to multiplayer for the maps and should it? Discuss

Discuss the Magnum M6D, C, C/SOCOM, and G (order of appearance) in this thread. Below are changes to the Halo Reach, Magnum M6G that might benefit the game overall and help balance out the Precision, Mid-range weapons.

> 343 will eventually be handed control of Reach, including the power of Title Updates, if my sources are correct. If this is true, I would like the Pistol to become a dominant Precision weapon again, even if it isn’t better than the DMR or NR at the end of the process (its already better than the DMR in my eyes, so its trivial).
>
> These suggestions are just suggestions, and not final. Feel free to discredit them, or improve upon them as the main objective is to attempt to make the Pistol better while still balancing out the Precision weapons.
>
> There are a few issues standing in the way of this that TU’s can fix:
>
>
> > Clip size
> > Seemingly severe bloom
> > Max amount of ammunition carried (Ammo capacity)
>
> Suggestions on how these can be rectified:
>
> Option A:
>
>
> > Clip size: Increase to 10
> > Reduce bloom rate closer to NR’s bloom, make bloom larger
> > Increase amount carried to 60-80 rounds with 20 being the base (what you spawn with)
>
>
> or…
>
> Option B:
>
> > Clip size: increase to 12
> > Max amount of ammunition carried 84-120 wit h24 being the base
> > Reduce firing rate to Pistol, keeping it above DMR max firing rate
>
>
> This essentially buffs the pistol without making it too dominant. It should be a triangle of pros and cons, and right now there are imbalanced cons against the Pistol as listed above. Below are what it would come down to if the changes were to be implemented
>
>
>
> > DMR: Longer range than Mid, greater clip size than Pistol, better scope, 5 shot, must be spammed at Mid Range to be effective
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>
>
> > Pistol: More ammunition capacity, easier to handle/more accurate at Mid range, can be spammed at close range, 5 shot, fails at long range shooting
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>
>
> > **NR:**Largest clip size and capacity, supercombine, has decent longer range shooting capability, can be spammed decently at close range, punishing bloom if spammed, 7 shots to kill
>
> This would make AR/Mag gametypes better and more popular with the addition of a better Pistol, which wasn’t just a side arm in CE, which Reach is attempting to become close to, despite public opinion. The Plasma Pistol can recieve a damage buff as well as a more powerful Overcharge (like CE).
>
>
>
> Other weapons that should be buffed:
> AR
> Plasma Repeater
> Spiker
> Plasma Pistol
>
> Discuss

Completely agreed. As it stands right now that thing is about as helpful as a water gun, making me want to pull my hair out whenever an ARs game is picked.

No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.

> No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.

I honestly don’t even know where to begin.

> > No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.
>
> I honestly don’t even know where to begin.

The Side-arm should never be able to out-beat the Assault Rifle.

> No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.

Explain.
Right now people don’t like the NR, which I believe is the most balanced of the Precision weapon right now, because its Covenant and pink (which is the most insanely idiotic, illogical thing). With the Pistol, we can have a familiar Human weapon that can harken back to CE (which is what Reach was attempting to do, even with AA’s and such), not be too overpowered, and balance the mess that is the Precision weapons of Reach. So unless they fix the DMR to where the NR and DMR are equals in different niches, my suggestion still stands.

> > > No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.
> >
> > I honestly don’t even know where to begin.
>
> The Side-arm should never be able to out-beat the Assault Rifle.

Oops, forgot to say to buff the AR, too. It shouldn’t be a shoot-bash weapon as it is. And the DMR can outplay the AR at close range (the AR’s niche) so I don’t see how the Pistol being able to do it to the current AR is bad (because, again, the AR should be buffed. Its a joke of a weapon).

> > > > No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.
> > >
> > > I honestly don’t even know where to begin.
> >
> > The Side-arm should never be able to out-beat the Assault Rifle.
>
> Oops, forgot to say to buff the AR, too. It shouldn’t be a shoot-bash weapon as it is. And the DMR can outplay the AR at close range (the AR’s niche) so I don’t see how the Pistol being able to do it to the current AR is bad (because, again, the AR should be buffed. Its a joke of a weapon).

Any person who says that the Magnum needs to be buffed to the pistol needs to just go play CE if they want an OP pistol. This is the new generation of Halo called BALANCE that you are trying to destroy.

> > > > > No, that will the most insanely idiotic thing to ever even do. The “Pistol” should never return back into a Halo game. 343i don’t listen to this as you will sacrifice the whole sandbox to fill this inlogical request.
> > > >
> > > > I honestly don’t even know where to begin.
> > >
> > > The Side-arm should never be able to out-beat the Assault Rifle.
> >
> > Oops, forgot to say to buff the AR, too. It shouldn’t be a shoot-bash weapon as it is. And the DMR can outplay the AR at close range (the AR’s niche) so I don’t see how the Pistol being able to do it to the current AR is bad (because, again, the AR should be buffed. Its a joke of a weapon).
>
> Any person who says that the Magnum needs to be buffed to the pistol needs to just go play CE if they want an OP pistol. This is the new generation of Halo called BALANCE that you are trying to destroy.

The NR and DMR are balanced? Who knew?

I’m not asking for an OP Pistol, just a better one. As its stands now, the stakes are against it in most values. Hell, I’m mostly asking for more ammunition than anything else. I’m not making it 3 shot, or giving it a super high accuracy. I’m attempting to balance out the precision weapons by making the Pistol a viable candidate for an actual starting weapon, but not a OP death machine. If you want to take what I posted out of context and focus on “ZOMG, he’s trying to bring back the God-Pistol!” then go ahead. That is NOT what I am calling for.

> DMR: Longer range than Mid, greater clip size than Pistol, better scope, 5 shot, must be spammed at Mid Range to be effective

this isnt how the DMR works… spamming at mid range is not optimal. (when people on this forum use the word ‘spamming’ they mean ‘full auto spamming’ for reference :P, maybe you meant using a cadence, which would be totally true).

> Pistol: More ammunition capacity, easier to handle/more accurate at Mid range, can be spammed at close range, 5 shot, fails at long range shooting

i really do NOT want another spammable weapon in reach. spamming adds a luck factor that is absolutely not needed at all. furthermore, the pistol is already INCREDIBLE at close range combat when you spam it. sure the bloom might make you miss a shot or 2, but you can shoot it very fast so getting 4 hits with it is pretty easy at close range, after which, just slow down and headshot, or melee.

i think if you are spamming ANY of the precision rifles / pistol you should lose 100% of the time against someone who is pacing their shots because the weapons bloom out so epic large you wont hit ANYTHING. having weapons that you can spam (at whatever range) only adds a random luck factor, especially when spamming is OPTIMAL (then it turns into coin flip battles, which is atrocious compared to shoot better -> win).

i think the pistol is in a pretty good spot right now. if anything i’d like to see it be a 4 shot kill instead of a 5 shot kill, but thats a pretty small change. the bloom on the pistol works 100% right now. you cant really spam it optimally except for super close range (not even regular ‘close range’ spamming works) because if you do, you will lose. medium range spamming on the pistol is TERRIBLE, as is long range spamming. you wont get a single kill spamming past super close range, and thats definitely a LOT better than how it is with the DMR and NR where you can spam optimally at close range, and still see success at mid range too.

> > DMR: Longer range than Mid, greater clip size than Pistol, better scope, 5 shot, must be spammed at Mid Range to be effective
>
> this isnt how the DMR works… spamming at mid range is not optimal. (when people on this forum use the word ‘spamming’ they mean ‘full auto spamming’ for reference :P, maybe you meant using a cadence, which would be totally true).
>
>
>
> > Pistol: More ammunition capacity, easier to handle/more accurate at Mid range, can be spammed at close range, 5 shot, fails at long range shooting
>
> i really do NOT want another spammable weapon in reach. spamming adds a luck factor that is absolutely not needed at all. furthermore, the pistol is already INCREDIBLE at close range combat when you spam it. sure the bloom might make you miss a shot or 2, but you can shoot it very fast so getting 4 hits with it is pretty easy at close range, after which, just slow down and headshot, or melee.
>
> i think if you are spamming ANY of the precision rifles / pistol you should lose 100% of the time against someone who is pacing their shots because the weapons bloom out so epic large you wont hit ANYTHING. having weapons that you can spam (at whatever range) only adds a random luck factor, especially when spamming is OPTIMAL (then it turns into coin flip battles, which is atrocious compared to shoot better -> win).
>
> i think the pistol is in a pretty good spot right now. if anything i’d like to see it be a 4 shot kill instead of a 5 shot kill, but thats a pretty small change. the bloom on the pistol works 100% right now. you cant really spam it optimally except for super close range (not even regular ‘close range’ spamming works) because if you do, you will lose. medium range spamming on the pistol is TERRIBLE, as is long range spamming. you wont get a single kill spamming past super close range, and thats definitely a LOT better than how it is with the DMR and NR where you can spam optimally at close range, and still see success at mid range too.

@The DMR Quote: Yes, i was using “Spam” as a familiar term.
@Pistol Quote: I don’t want another "spammable " weapon, either. What I meant about reducing the bloom was more of how how much it blooms with each shot rather than reducing it in size. As it is, its bloom is superior. However, it cannot actively compete with the DMR or NR without a good timing of shots, and thus makes it a poor option for a starting weapon since not everyone will have this discipline as I do. I do not want "coin flip’ battles as we do now. I (again) want more of a ammunition change than a bloom change, but if such a change to bloom were to be made, I would want it punshing like the NR’s bloom, but not entirely niche as it is now. And i did call for discussion. These changes I’m suggesting are in no way final. I’m merely attempting to have a better Pistol, while balancing the precision weapons out. If you have a suggestion on how we can accomplish this, I’m all ears. I personally discredit spamming altogether, and would not want another DMR finding its way here.

What Urza said is right. I misunderstood what you were talking about but now I know. Like Urza said, the pistol would become more spamm-able. What you suggested would make the pistol more powerful when it comes to spamming. There is no need to increase the Pistol clip size because it would make spamming more effiecent than pacing your shots. In Invasion, the Pistol becomes a vital weapon in Phase 1 and if the clip size was anymore than Invasion would be unbalanced for the Elites.

The NR is not broken or whatever you like to call it. It works very effiecently compared to the DMR(spam). There is no need for any changes beside the DMR bloom fix and that is about it. In theory, all the weapons work properly except for the Spiker which is a bit under-powered.

> Completely agreed. As it stands right now that thing is about as helpful as a water gun, making me want to pull my hair out whenever an ARs game is picked.

the pistol is not a water gun, it is actually VERY good. try shooting it EPIC SLOW. you have to use a 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 cadence also. allow for FULL RESET between every shot. you are probably just shooting too fast which makes it terrible.

> @The DMR Quote: Yes, i was using “Spam” as a familiar term.

well… you said "must be spammed at Mid Range to be effective" which totally isnt true XD. if you spam at mid range with the DMR you wont win the majority of the time, especially if they are landing their shots and pacing using a cadence.

as for the pistol being changed, i could see it being changed in that it has a bit bigger MAX bloom, and a bit faster bloom reset rate so you could shoot it a BIT faster (a tiny bit… like maybe 10% faster ‘optimal cadence’). right now you do have to shoot it pretty damn slow to be 100% accurate.

> The NR is not broken or whatever you like to call it. It works very effiecently compared to the DMR(spam). There is no need for any changes beside the DMR bloom fix and that is about it. In theory, all the weapons work properly except for the Spiker which is a bit under-powered.

well… the NR is still broken in that spamming can win, its just not AS broken as the DMR is lolz.

> > Completely agreed. As it stands right now that thing is about as helpful as a water gun, making me want to pull my hair out whenever an ARs game is picked.
>
> the pistol is not a water gun, it is actually VERY good. try shooting it EPIC SLOW. you have to use a 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 cadence also. allow for FULL RESET between every shot. you are probably just shooting too fast which makes it terrible.

I do this all of the time. Problem is that it takes discipline (as in, being able t ocorrectly time it efficiently) in order to use it effectively, and while you could say that it takes skill, look at two other guns that work just as well without needing that disipline. I think the bloom should be widened due to a clip size increase, but have it reset a bit faster just so that discipline isn’t so heavily needed.
Look at my Pistol stats. I know how to use it, but the problem is that most people don’t, and it can’t ever be considered a starting weapon without enough ammunition, which is all I want really. I recognize that the bloom must change according to the clip size, and therefore I called for those changes to be made. I might have worded it wrong, though. I want it punishing like the NR (at some point, the NR is almost compeletly impossible to control), but still having the characteristic of a large bloom.

> > > Completely agreed. As it stands right now that thing is about as helpful as a water gun, making me want to pull my hair out whenever an ARs game is picked.
> >
> > the pistol is not a water gun, it is actually VERY good. try shooting it EPIC SLOW. you have to use a 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 cadence also. allow for FULL RESET between every shot. you are probably just shooting too fast which makes it terrible.
>
> I do this all of the time. Problem is that it takes discipline (as in, being able t ocorrectly time it efficiently) in order to use it effectively, and while you could say that it takes skill, look at two other guns that work just as well without needing that disipline. I think the bloom should be widened due to a clip size increase, but have it reset a bit faster just so that discipline isn’t so heavily needed.
> Look at my Pistol stats. I know how to use it, but the problem is that most people don’t, and it can’t ever be considered a starting weapon without enough ammunition, which is all I want really. I recognize that the bloom must change according to the clip size, and therefore I called for those changes to be made. I might have worded it wrong, though. I want it punishing like the NR (at some point, the NR is almost compeletly impossible to control), but still having the characteristic of a large bloom.

iuno dude… i kinda like the discipline needed to use the pistol in reach. i just LOVE the fact that damn near every time i get into a pistol vs pistol battle i win because im actually capable of using it properly, while the other clown tries to spam like he would his DMR, to no success on his part. if it was a DMR vs DMR battle we’d be pretty close and the victor would be completely random, but when its pistol vs pistol the person who shoots better usually wins.

so what you would like is…

+5 bullets in the clip (or how many?)
+20% MAXIMUM bloom
+10% bloom reset rate

?

those changes would make it work how it does currently in that the person who shoots better in a pistol vs pistol battle will win 100% of the time, and also let you kill an extra person with 1 clip.

This is seriously very stupid. ITS A PISTOL! Its not supposed to be a cannon. Pace your shots with the thing and you could domintae with it, then you wouldnt need a bigger clip size.

> This is seriously very stupid. ITS A PISTOL! Its not supposed to be a cannon. Pace your shots with the thing and you could domintae with it, then you wouldnt need a bigger clip size.

Check my stats for the Pistol in Competitive for Reach. Go on. I know how to use it, but apparently most of the populace of Reach don’t, and while its good for myself tha ti know, its not good when people switch it out for a needler and keeping their AR and I suffer because poeple don’t realize its a good weapon, because of the mindset otehr games instill sayin g"its just a pistol, its bad by default." Its not in Reach, but peopel don’t realize this. So either we nerf it to nothingness and drastically change the NR and DMR so that they are equal (which they aren’t now), or we make it a good weapon so that there can be a triangle of precision weapon with none of them holding too much over the other. Someone else can deal with the DMR and NR, but I feel its my duty to attempt to address this concern with a weapon I have been using since December of '01.

Call it blind nostalgia, call it whatever you want, but this is Halo. Its not CoD, its not Homefront, its not Battlefield, its not Gears of War. Halo was supposed to be a weapon pickup sandbox game where having one weapon but not another could mean your or the enemy’s death. No weapon should have to many perks over another, and even the God Pistol couldn’t beat a Shotgun at close range or a Sniper at long range unless the one using it had enough skill to take on these niche weapons. Halo has been driven from this since Halo 2 with the intro of the BR and Carbine (BR>Carbine, FTR) which messed up the sandbox. I’d much prefer one precision weapon at all (we do not need a bunch of utilitarian weapons) but if we’re going to keep the lot, better to be a pros/cons triangle, then a equal clone line, because either of those are what would need to happen to fix it.

I like the OP’s idea.

It would be great to have the Pistol’s ammo cap out at around 70 instead of 40 bullets, though I would like it to be at 80. I would like it to have less bloom than it does already. The beta Pistol didn’t have a horrid bloom that it does now. Increasing the size of the clip would be nice too, let’s see it go up to 10 shots a round.

For all of the people who say this shouldn’t happen because of balance and that the Pistol is a sidearm: you’ve never played Halo: Combat Evolved.

> > > > Completely agreed. As it stands right now that thing is about as helpful as a water gun, making me want to pull my hair out whenever an ARs game is picked.
> > >
> > > the pistol is not a water gun, it is actually VERY good. try shooting it EPIC SLOW. you have to use a 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 cadence also. allow for FULL RESET between every shot. you are probably just shooting too fast which makes it terrible.
> >
> > I do this all of the time. Problem is that it takes discipline (as in, being able t ocorrectly time it efficiently) in order to use it effectively, and while you could say that it takes skill, look at two other guns that work just as well without needing that disipline. I think the bloom should be widened due to a clip size increase, but have it reset a bit faster just so that discipline isn’t so heavily needed.
> > Look at my Pistol stats. I know how to use it, but the problem is that most people don’t, and it can’t ever be considered a starting weapon without enough ammunition, which is all I want really. I recognize that the bloom must change according to the clip size, and therefore I called for those changes to be made. I might have worded it wrong, though. I want it punishing like the NR (at some point, the NR is almost compeletly impossible to control), but still having the characteristic of a large bloom.
>
> iuno dude… i kinda like the discipline needed to use the pistol in reach. i just LOVE the fact that damn near every time i get into a pistol vs pistol battle i win because im actually capable of using it properly, while the other clown tries to spam like he would his DMR, to no success on his part. if it was a DMR vs DMR battle we’d be pretty close and the victor would be completely random, but when its pistol vs pistol the person who shoots better usually wins.
>
> so what you would like is…
>
> +5 bullets in the clip (or how many?)
> +20% MAXIMUM bloom
> +10% bloom reset rate
>
> ?
>
> those changes would make it work how it does currently in that the person who shoots better in a pistol vs pistol battle will win 100% of the time, and also let you kill an extra person with 1 clip.

10 round clip (it is 8 right now). I can’t really measure bloom since I do not have accurate percentages to use but gist of it is to make the Bloom larger but reset faster so that if a perso nwere to spamm, they woudl need to be point blank in order for a slight chance of a kill, but good pacing would reward a player with accuracy at Mid Range combat.

I also like that every time I get into a Pistol battle, I win because I use it right, or Pistol vs. DMR for that matter (its possible, trust me). Its still not on par with the NR or DMR as a weapon, which is what I am suggesting be rectified. Right now, NR=/=DMR in effectiveness. I’m not going to attempt to fix either, but rather the Pistol. The other option instead of a triangle is to simply make the NR and DMR equal (which will certainly be difficult as it is), so I’m posing the question: “Why take the hard raod and constantly adjust the two to make them equal when you can add a third weapon to the mix and equalize them that way?” Its like adding a support to a structure that requires another cornerstone. I believe the Pistol can be this cornerstone.