Unlockable Weapons makes me worry.

Games Other Halo
1

Everything else–including the leaked enemies–seems like a welcome addition to Halo; even the return of armor abilities. (I mean, they axed Armor Lock so they must have SOMEONE in the multiplayer design team who has a semblance of balance).

However, having weapons as unlockable, and being able to spawn with a custom loadout, bothers the crap out of me.

I know Halo needs to change up the game or risk being stale at launch–but I feel that this direction with the weapons system is nothing more than pandering to the Call of Duty crowd, and is being done on a primarily monetary gain-based decision, rather than picking what’s best for gameplay.

I have nothing against Call of Duty, but as time progresses, the line of separation between what makes Halo different is diminishing at what seems an accelerated rate.

Halo used to be an arena shooter that started everybody off on equal footing, with map control being the key factor to weapon selection and chance of victory.

Starting with Reach however, this entire system has been changing, and Halo 4 is about to crank that bell curve up a little further.

The problem lies within players starting off with two different weapons. Let’s say, the DMR versus the BR, a debate that has already started raging in the forums.

343i, I know you’re doing internal playstesting to balance the sandbox to promote variance, but let’s face it: Two weapons with unique functionality will always-despite your best playtesting efforts–lead to one being invariably a better weapon than another.

Case in point; every class-based shooter released to date. MW3, for example, has the Type 95. World at War had the MP40. Even Halo Reach had the Needle Rifle in Slayer Pro gametypes.

Perhaps not right away, but down the road, you will see players start trending towards one weapon over another. I am no statistical analyst; I do not analyze such things professionally–but I am a gamer, and I can say this from a first-person perspective as one of those players.

2

> Everything else–including the leaked enemies–seems like a welcome addition to Halo; even the return of armor abilities. (I mean, they axed Armor Lock so they must have SOMEONE in the multiplayer design team who has a semblance of balance).
>
> However, having weapons as unlockable, and being able to spawn with a custom loadout, bothers the crap out of me.
>
> I know Halo needs to change up the game or risk being stale at launch–but I feel that this direction with the weapons system is nothing more than pandering to the Call of Duty crowd, and is being done on a primarily monetary gain-based decision, rather than picking what’s best for gameplay.
>
> I have nothing against Call of Duty, but as time progresses, the line of separation between what makes Halo different is diminishing at what seems an accelerated rate.
>
> Halo used to be an arena shooter that started everybody off on equal footing, with map control being the key factor to weapon selection and chance of victory.
>
> Starting with Reach however, this entire system has been changing, and Halo 4 is about to crank that bell curve up a little further.
>
> The problem lies within players starting off with two different weapons. Let’s say, the DMR versus the BR, a debate that has already started raging in the forums.
>
> 343i, I know you’re doing internal playstesting to balance the sandbox to promote variance, but let’s face it: Two weapons with unique functionality will always-despite your best playtesting efforts–lead to one being invariably a better weapon than another.
>
> Case in point; every class-based shooter released to date. MW3, for example, has the Type 95. World at War had the MP40. Even Halo Reach had the Needle Rifle in Slayer Pro gametypes.
>
> Perhaps not right away, but down the road, you will see players start trending towards one weapon over another. I am no statistical analyst; I do not analyze such things professionally–but I am a gamer, and I can say this from a first-person perspective as one of those players.

A good player in MW3 (Defining good as a player with skill, and not a player with high killstreaks) can take out a Type 95 user with a knife to the foot. It isn’t about making 1 weapon equal to the other, its about making every weapon good at one thing, but only one thing.

If players are trending towards 1 weapon, it’s 343’s job to issue out patches.

The BR and DMR have been confirmed to be good only in their selective ranges.

3

The only reason why players picked NR in pro was not because of the needles but the stickie grenades. That was in the old Slayer Pro at least, it’s been replaced by DMR and frags now. So that doesn’t mesh well with your other two examples as result of this explanation. The power was in the nades, not the gun.

However, i do share concerns on issues of balance. We are receiving a bigger, updated sandbox for Halo 4 (most likely due to the custom loadouts) and that could lead to some problems as having a higher count of guns could lead to some of them being considered as too useful or not used enough.

Not to mention adding in Specializations and AAs within these loadouts. It has more worried but at the very least no one is forced to play with Water Gun starts (AR starts) and can pick DMR/BR instead.

The DMR and BR have their intended ranges. The former works best at range but the BR beats it at closer ranges. The DMR pwns BR at long range due to recoil and scope.

However, i think 343 is planning on using something called the Cortana Web to update the game after release. It keeps track of all the weapon usage and stats and instead of a costly TU, they can tweak the game easily by using the Web to make adjustments.

If one weapon is too weak or not used enough it gets buffed. If a weapon is a bit too strong, it gets re balanced.

4

Worrying about classes is understandable. But I think it will be a great addition to the game, it allows players to use a portion of the sandbox their way. No more fighting over AR or BR starts, YOU GET TO CHOOSE!!!
But yes balance is a concern and hopefully 343i is playtesting the hell out of the game.

5

It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.

And yes it is a horrible idea.

6

> The problem lies within players starting off with two different weapons. Let’s say, the DMR versus the BR, a debate that has already started raging in the forums.

These debates are all but over now, it all comes down to personal preference.

7

> It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
>
> And yes it is a horrible idea.

Why is it a bad idea?

8

> > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> >
> > And yes it is a horrible idea.
>
> Why is it a bad idea?

Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?

9

i don´t know how it´s going to work, but i find quite strange that there will be several weapons spawning on the map, but they won´t be affected by those settings you made to your custom loadout. i mean, who is going to rush for a BR that is “plain” when you have a better one everytime you respawn?

10

> > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > >
> > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> >
> > Why is it a bad idea?
>
> Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?

343i has said preset classes will be in like Reach so players that aren’t a high level are not a disadvantage. So people that don’t have a BR or DMR for custom classes can still use them.

11

> > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > >
> > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> >
> > Why is it a bad idea?
>
> Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?

+1

even COD has to reset that unlockables to balance the game.

12

> The only reason why players picked NR in pro was not because of the needles but the stickie grenades. That was in the old Slayer Pro at least, it’s been replaced by DMR and frags now. So that doesn’t mesh well with your other two examples as result of this explanation. The power was in the nades, not the gun.
>
>
>
> However, i do share concerns on issues of balance. We are receiving a bigger, updated sandbox for Halo 4 (most likely due to the custom loadouts) and that could lead to some problems as having a higher count of guns could lead to some of them being considered as too useful or not used enough.
>
> Not to mention adding in Specializations and AAs within these loadouts. It has more worried but at the very least no one is forced to play with Water Gun starts (AR starts) and can pick DMR/BR instead.
>
> The DMR and BR have their intended ranges. The former works best at range but the BR beats it at closer ranges. The DMR pwns BR at long range due to recoil and scope.
>
>
> However, i think 343 is planning on using something called the Cortana Web to update the game after release. It keeps track of all the weapon usage and stats and instead of a costly TU, they can tweak the game easily by using the Web to make adjustments.
>
> If one weapon is too weak or not used enough it gets buffed. If a weapon is a bit too strong, it gets re balanced.

Where did you learn that?

13

> It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
>
> And yes it is a horrible idea.

Yeah, well that’s just like, your opinion man.

14

> > > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > > >
> > > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> > >
> > > Why is it a bad idea?
> >
> > Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?
>
> 343i has said preset classes will be in like Reach so players that aren’t a high level are not a disadvantage. So people that don’t have a BR or DMR for custom classes can still use them.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they have said that the player can still use them but they will not spaw on the map, therefore a player will have to pick it up off a dead body just like in COD or BF. That still isn’t fair in my eyes, not being able to spawn with a BR is still a huge disadvantage.

15

> > > > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> > > >
> > > > Why is it a bad idea?
> > >
> > > Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?
> >
> > 343i has said preset classes will be in like Reach so players that aren’t a high level are not a disadvantage. So people that don’t have a BR or DMR for custom classes can still use them.
>
> Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they have said that the player can still use them but they will not spaw on the map, therefore a player will have to pick it up off a dead body just like in COD or BF. That still isn’t fair in my eyes, not being able to spawn with a BR is still a huge disadvantage.

You didn’t read my post 343i said you will be able to spawn with them in preset classes. So players not a high level won’t be at a huge disadvantage.

16

> > > > > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why is it a bad idea?
> > > >
> > > > Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?
> > >
> > > 343i has said preset classes will be in like Reach so players that aren’t a high level are not a disadvantage. So people that don’t have a BR or DMR for custom classes can still use them.
> >
> > Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they have said that the player can still use them but they will not spaw on the map, therefore a player will have to pick it up off a dead body just like in COD or BF. That still isn’t fair in my eyes, not being able to spawn with a BR is still a huge disadvantage.
>
> You didn’t read my post 343i said you will be able to spawn with them in preset classes. So players not a high level won’t be at a huge disadvantage.

Can you link me to the place that this was I said, sorry I really can’t remember.

17

> > > > > > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why is it a bad idea?
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?
> > > >
> > > > 343i has said preset classes will be in like Reach so players that aren’t a high level are not a disadvantage. So people that don’t have a BR or DMR for custom classes can still use them.
> > >
> > > Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they have said that the player can still use them but they will not spaw on the map, therefore a player will have to pick it up off a dead body just like in COD or BF. That still isn’t fair in my eyes, not being able to spawn with a BR is still a huge disadvantage.
> >
> > You didn’t read my post 343i said you will be able to spawn with them in preset classes. So players not a high level won’t be at a huge disadvantage.
>
> Can you link me to the place that this was I said, sorry I really can’t remember.

Unfortunately I don’t have a link otherwise I’d post it for you, but you have the ability to use google and hopefully research skills.

18

unlockable weapons is part of all games its the new generation and besides COD isn’t the only who use classes:S

19

> > > > > > > > It’s just another tactic to try and persuade COD fans to play Halo, anybody who think there is any other reason is just kidding themselves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And yes it is a horrible idea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why is it a bad idea?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo has always been better than other MP games due to its balance, up until Reach it was actually unique in that aspect but now it apparently has to go down the route of unlockable weapons, simply rewarding a player who plays more rather than a player who is actually better, so how is this balanced?
> > > > >
> > > > > 343i has said preset classes will be in like Reach so players that aren’t a high level are not a disadvantage. So people that don’t have a BR or DMR for custom classes can still use them.
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they have said that the player can still use them but they will not spaw on the map, therefore a player will have to pick it up off a dead body just like in COD or BF. That still isn’t fair in my eyes, not being able to spawn with a BR is still a huge disadvantage.
> > >
> > > You didn’t read my post 343i said you will be able to spawn with them in preset classes. So players not a high level won’t be at a huge disadvantage.
> >
> > Can you link me to the place that this was I said, sorry I really can’t remember.
>
> Unfortunately I don’t have a link otherwise I’d post it for you, but you have the ability to use google and hopefully research skills.

Fortunately, i have the link right here :stuck_out_tongue:

20

> Everything else–including the leaked enemies–seems like a welcome addition to Halo; even the return of armor abilities. (I mean, they axed Armor Lock so they must have SOMEONE in the multiplayer design team who has a semblance of balance).
>
> However, having weapons as unlockable, and being able to spawn with a custom loadout, bothers the crap out of me.
>
> I know Halo needs to change up the game or risk being stale at launch–but I feel that this direction with the weapons system is nothing more than pandering to the Call of Duty crowd, and is being done on a primarily monetary gain-based decision, rather than picking what’s best for gameplay.
>
> I have nothing against Call of Duty, but as time progresses, the line of separation between what makes Halo different is diminishing at what seems an accelerated rate.
>
> Halo used to be an arena shooter that started everybody off on equal footing, with map control being the key factor to weapon selection and chance of victory.
>
> Starting with Reach however, this entire system has been changing, and Halo 4 is about to crank that bell curve up a little further.
>
> The problem lies within players starting off with two different weapons. Let’s say, the DMR versus the BR, a debate that has already started raging in the forums.
>
> 343i, I know you’re doing internal playstesting to balance the sandbox to promote variance, but let’s face it: Two weapons with unique functionality will always-despite your best playtesting efforts–lead to one being invariably a better weapon than another.
>
> Case in point; every class-based shooter released to date. MW3, for example, has the Type 95. World at War had the MP40. Even Halo Reach had the Needle Rifle in Slayer Pro gametypes.
>
> Perhaps not right away, but down the road, you will see players start trending towards one weapon over another. I am no statistical analyst; I do not analyze such things professionally–but I am a gamer, and I can say this from a first-person perspective as one of those players.

you can’t unlock power weapons. so you shouldn’t even worry to begin with. and trending always happens no matter what game your playing. hell in most montages you would always see them getting a few snipes then switching to a rocket launcher to get another multi or to continue it. just like certain paths or “behaivors” would trend on certain maps. the only thing that is now different is theres mor of a variety on wich things could trend to. but things will still be balanced. AA’s in reach were mostly balanced besides AL. you may spawn with different weapons or AA’s to give you a different advantage but its balanced because you had access to the same AA’s etc before you spawned. the game and fights still play down to wits. halo is getting DEEPER.