> Hahaha! That’s exactly what most players did! They left for other games! Now Reach is left with a population that doesn’t even “Reach” 100,000 anymore!
>
> Reach mechanics were garbage. People realized that and left. The TU made Reach playable for a lot of people, but by the time it rolled around, it was too late. The TU didn’t ruin Reach. Reach ruined itself from the get go. The TU was an answer to stem the tide of leaving players. But the damage was done.
>
> Reach was a flop, and the majority knows it.
If you think the majority is always right, then I guess Twilight was the best film ever…
And if you think you would have done a better job than Bungie did with their parting gift, then there’s nothing I can do for you…
Believe me, I’ve been in the videogames world for a long time, and I can tell you Reach is one of the best FPS ever made.
Edit :And I’m not telling the TU ruined the game.I actually like most of it(ok, I don’t like bleedthrough), but instead of listening to kids whinning, I would like to see 343 putting more efforts about maps, networking and quality MM, which are the most important things imo.
> And I can tell you that Mario Cart feels more as a FPS than Reach does. And that is in third person.
>
> You being in the “videogames world” for X amount of time means squat to me when I look at Reach.
Maybe you’re right, but maybe not.And that’s something you need to be alive for a while before you learn it
> > Hahaha! That’s exactly what most players did! They left for other games! Now Reach is left with a population that doesn’t even “Reach” 100,000 anymore!
> >
> > Reach mechanics were garbage. People realized that and left. The TU made Reach playable for a lot of people, but by the time it rolled around, it was too late. The TU didn’t ruin Reach. Reach ruined itself from the get go. The TU was an answer to stem the tide of leaving players. But the damage was done.
> >
> > Reach was a flop, and the majority knows it.
>
> If you think the majority is always right, then I guess Twilight was the best film ever…
> And if you think you whould have done a better job than Bungie did with their parting gift, then there’s nothing I can do for you…
> Believe me, I’ve been in the videogames world for long time, and I can tell you Reach is one of the best FPS ever made.
What is this, a Strawman?
You can’t use arguments like Twilight in this argument. You need to keep it in the realm of Halo, otherwise it’s invalid. Reach was a flop. The majority (~600,000) left long before the TU was even announced. The numbers continued to drop even before a TU was released. 343i is a business, they want to make money. Leaving Reach as is (which only a year later barely has 100,000 players on a VERY good day) was bad for business and drove people away.
And the TU wasn’t implemented in all playlists. It’s still Out of Team Slayer, Living Dead, and most of the " Competitive" playlists. So the TU didn’t do anything to harm those players. So saying the TU caused people to leave is bull. Reach was a flop, even in terms of DLC, there no envying or denying it.
And I don’t care how long you’ve been in the gaming world. I care about statistics and results. And none of those are on the side of Default Reach or Reach in general.
*Twilight may be “popular” with a certain group, but each movie/book is trashed by most (if not all) reviewers and regular people alike. So, your argument doesn’t hold.
> What is this, a Strawman?
>
> You can’t use arguments like Twilight in this argument. You need to keep it in the realm of Halo, otherwise it’s invalid. Reach was a flop. The majority (~600,000) left long before the TU was even announced. The numbers continued to drop even before a TU was released. 343i is a business, they want to make money. Leaving Reach as is (which only a year later barely has 100,000 players on a VERY good day) was bad for business and drove people away.
>
> And the TU wasn’t implemented in all playlists. It’s still Out of Team Slayer, Living Dead, and most of the " Competitive" playlists. So the TU didn’t do anything to harm those players. So saying the TU caused people to leave is bull. Reach was a flop, even in terms of DLC, there no envying or denying it.
Well, a few (or maybe many?) years ago, videogame was not a bussiness.It was a passion.
And read again please, I think you misunderstood my post.
> > What is this, a Strawman?
> >
> > You can’t use arguments like Twilight in this argument. You need to keep it in the realm of Halo, otherwise it’s invalid. Reach was a flop. The majority (~600,000) left long before the TU was even announced. The numbers continued to drop even before a TU was released. 343i is a business, they want to make money. Leaving Reach as is (which only a year later barely has 100,000 players on a VERY good day) was bad for business and drove people away.
> >
> > And the TU wasn’t implemented in all playlists. It’s still Out of Team Slayer, Living Dead, and most of the " Competitive" playlists. So the TU didn’t do anything to harm those players. So saying the TU caused people to leave is bull. Reach was a flop, even in terms of DLC, there no envying or denying it.
>
> Well, a few (or maybe many?) years ago, videogame was not a bussiness.It was a passion.
> And read again please, I think you misunderstood my post.
No, I understood it clearly. You have not read/understood my posts. News Flash! This isn’t “a few years ago!” this is 2011, almost 2012! Things have changed.
Reach flopped in terms of DLC and player longevity. Reach had many thing people disliked. Even MLG was on the brink of dropping Reach from the main circuit. It would have been massive blow to Halo. Thanks to the TU, that might not happen.
You may like Default Reach, but that doesn’t make it a good game.
> No, I understood it clearly. You have not read/understood my posts. News Flash! This isn’t “a few years ago!” this is 2011, almost 2012! Things have changed.
>
> Reach flopped in terms of DLC and player longevity. Reach had many thing people disliked. Even MLG was on the brink of dropping Rwach from the main circuit. It would have been aassive blow to Halo. Thanks to the TU, that might not happen.
>
> You may like Default Reach, but that doesn’t make it a good game.
I understand your position.But before discussing this, we should know what is a good game.
Could you give us a definition of a “good game”, please?
The same question could be asked to you, and the result should be obvious; a good game is determined by preference. I dislike default Reach because my own preferences make it hard for me to enjoy it. Simple as that.
> > > Hahaha! That’s exactly what most players did! They left for other games! Now Reach is left with a population that doesn’t even “Reach” 100,000 anymore!
> > >
> > > Reach mechanics were garbage. People realized that and left. The TU made Reach playable for a lot of people, but by the time it rolled around, it was too late. The TU didn’t ruin Reach. Reach ruined itself from the get go. The TU was an answer to stem the tide of leaving players. But the damage was done.
> > >
> > > Reach was a flop, and the majority knows it.
> >
> > If you think the majority is always right, then I guess Twilight was the best film ever…
> > And if you think you whould have done a better job than Bungie did with their parting gift, then there’s nothing I can do for you…
> > Believe me, I’ve been in the videogames world for long time, and I can tell you Reach is one of the best FPS ever made.
>
> What is this, a Strawman?
>
> You can’t use arguments like Twilight in this argument. You need to keep it in the realm of Halo, otherwise it’s invalid. Reach was a flop. The majority (~600,000) left long before the TU was even announced. The numbers continued to drop even before a TU was released. 343i is a business, they want to make money. Leaving Reach as is (which only a year later barely has 100,000 players on a VERY good day) was bad for business and drove people away.
>
> And the TU wasn’t implemented in all playlists. It’s still Out of Team Slayer, Living Dead, and most of the " Competitive" playlists. So the TU didn’t do anything to harm those players. So saying the TU caused people to leave is bull. Reach was a flop, even in terms of DLC, there no envying or denying it.
>
> And I don’t care how long you’ve been in the gaming world. I care about statistics and results. And none of those are on the side of Default Reach or Reach in general.
>
> *Twilight may be “popular” with a certain group, but each movie/book is trashed by most (if not all) reviewers and regular people alike. So, your argument doesn’t hold.
One of the few people that post on this site that knows what he is talking about. The TU made the game ALOT better for a lot of people. But not worse for any. I don’t see the point in the existence of this thread.
> The same question could be asked to you, and the result should be obvious; a good game is determined by preference. I dislike default Reach because my own preferences make it hard for me to enjoy it. Simple as that.
You’re righ, “good” is subjective.So we can agree that’s only a personal preference.
But in a more objective way, what makes a “good game”?
It’s difficult to answer to this…maybe the fact that it allows quality interaction between users through the game.It’s an efficient tool.
So, if we look at Reach this way I would say it has:
Nice graphics
Solid physics
Gameplay variety(AA,weapons,vehicles)
Allows great freedom(forge, customs)
Overall, I would say it’s a good game because it has a lot of potential.It’s like having several games in one.But, I agree this potential is difficult to deal with, so finding the “perfect” balance…
The problem with people that don’t like Reach, and want H3 back, is that you refuse innovation.It’s a new game.Why do you want it to be just the same than the last one?
We will end playing a remake of H3 every year, just like CoD series.Because it sells.Because people buy it.Because it has 999.999.999.999 players online every day.It’s a “good game”, it’s popular.Is that what you want?Halo 3.5?If so, you can start playing MW2.5 right now;)
> > The same question could be asked to you, and the result should be obvious; a good game is determined by preference. I dislike default Reach because my own preferences make it hard for me to enjoy it. Simple as that.
>
> You’re righ, “good” is subjective.So we can agree that’s only a personal preference.
> But in a more objective way, what makes a “good game”?
> It’s difficult to answer to this…maybe the fact that it allows quality interaction between users through the game.It’s an efficient tool.
> So, if we look at Reach this way I would say it has:
> Nice graphics
> Solid physics
> Gameplay variety(AA,weapons,vehicles)
> Allows great freedom(forge, customs)
>
> Overall, I would say it’s a good game because it has a lot of potential.It’s like having several games in one.But, I agree this potential is difficult to deal with, so finding the “perfect” balance…
The question what makes a great game is an easy one to answer. A game that is fun. Halo 1 nor 2 didn’t have half of the things you listed. Yet some can argue that they are better then all of the games that have proceeded them.
What made them fun? They were easy to learn but hard to master. That’s the fundamental key to all successful games. Not graphics or gimmicky things that clog the games true game play.
> > No, I understood it clearly. You have not read/understood my posts. News Flash! This isn’t “a few years ago!” this is 2011, almost 2012! Things have changed.
> >
> > Reach flopped in terms of DLC and player longevity. Reach had many thing people disliked. Even MLG was on the brink of dropping Rwach from the main circuit. It would have been aassive blow to Halo. Thanks to the TU, that might not happen.
> >
> > You may like Default Reach, but that doesn’t make it a good game.
>
> I understand your position.But before discussing this, we should know what is a good game.
> Could you give us a definition of a “good game”, please?
A good game is determined by preference. We’ll never agree on what is “good”.
What are you babbling about? The TU isn’t the cure for Reach population anyway. Nomatter how good it ends up!
The casuals couldn’t care less of bloom or bleed through.
343 needs to overhaul the playlists and remove 2/3rds of them. Every playlist has so little players nowdays that people quit because of bad connections and low quality matchmaking alone. This must be adressed asap!
Stick to a handful of playlists in total + some for the TU-beta.
And for gods sake put up a pure 4 vs 4 TEAM SLAYER playlist. I’m sick and tired of having two players dashboard as soon as “Slayer Pro”, “Slayer DMR”, or “Elite Slayer” is chosen.
And if there’s any sense left in Microsoft and 343, they realize that what’s at stake with a population of 30-90k is the entire future of the Halo franchise, and think up a package to really draw the average joe schmoe back.
And btw: Why are they TU-ing and majory overhauling the core mechanics now? That should have been done after the beta and been inplemented in first release like two years ago.
The only thing such a TU will achive now, is making 500 “veteran” geek-players happy, and confuse (and possibly scare away) the last remnants of the casuals still playing the game.
Sometimes I wonder which people makes these business descisions… idiots.
It should definitely have been like this 1 year ago, but since Bungie refused to see how much it inflicted upon the “core” of Halo, they didn’t change it or do it this way. Something that 343 now has done, which I think was the right call.
The problem with reach is the pace of the game. It is the slowest halo game released by Bungie. People these days want fast paced games. Bungie has added things in this game that have slowed it down.
Reach is the slowest halo game to date. The kill times are so slow. The DMR kills in 2.2 seconds paced or 1.5 seconds spammed. This is assuming you get a 5 shot. In halo 3, the BR was a 1.5s kill. In halo 2, the BR was a 1.4s kill. In halo CE, the pistol was a 0.6s kill! Notice how as each game released, the utility weapon’s kill time got longer. The game is so slow that it’s boring getting in a 1v1 fight. In fact, you must team shot in order to keep the pace fast. This is a problem, a team shot shouldn’t be required. The individual has to be able to get in a fight without feeling bored, which is what we have now.
COD is the number one played game on Xbox live. One reason for this is because it’s fast paced. An individual in that game can win the game for the whole team. Now we don’t want to go that far because halo should be a team game and an individual shouldn’t be able to win the game, but they should be able to make an effect without needing help all the time. But you can see how COD is exciting for people. If it took you 2 seconds to kill someone in COD (compared to the 0.3s it’s at right now), I can assure you that it wouldn’t be as popular as it is.
Kill times aren’t the only thing that make Halo Reach slow. Bungie added bloom and armour abilities which slow the game down to a crawl. With bloom, you can spam to make the kill time quicker, but you will miss shots, so the kill time becomes longer. You can also pace your shots, but now the kill times are long. Long kill times allow your enemies to make mistakes and run away from them. If I’m shooting at someone, they have a lot of time to run away, unless I have a team mate shooting with me. Armour Abilities also slow the game down. Sprint allows people to run away once they start losing a fight. This person should have died, but they just sprinted away, so nobody gets a kill. This slows the game down. Armour lock does the same thing. You start losing, and you are able to be invincible for 7 seconds. That 7 extra seconds slows the game down. Evade does the same thing. Losing a fight? no problem, just evade away. All these things are robbing people of kills. Kill that they should have gotten, but they didn’t because of these mechanics.
There is no point in arguing with someone like the OP. Please refrain from posting and forget about this thread entirely. It is the best way to deal with a matter like this.
