TU playlists needs DMR change.

Games Other Halo
1

I’ve been playing a lot more team objective since the 10 person change and Big Team Slayer because of the added Heavies variant (in my opinion, one of the best/funnest things 343 has done yet)into the playlist. There is a major problem that myself and friends also cannot stand that it almost makes it not even worth going into the playlist.

Generally, TU is not a great update for any of us, not fans of the less bloom tweak, bleed through, removed sword block etc - only update I did like from it was the stuck grenades will still kill you even in armor lock and I love armor lock as a load out.

Specifically, starting with a DMR in every game type based on TU update is mind-numbly painful. The DMR is a great gun, its a good edge in almost all situations and its just cool in general. But starting the entire game with them is brutal. In team objective specifically, there is almost no reason to try to return flags, assault with the bomb etc because you’ll be headshot downed in seconds. It gets to a point where no one even cares about the objective and will just find a good spot and DMR enemies until either it ends 0-0 or one team has quitters at that point the higher manned team with score 1 point and return to DMR killing.

What is the point of playing a objective based playlist when it just reverts to basically slayer + swat and people only are going for better KD ratio/kills.

Big Team Slayer - another brutal variant with DMR’s all round. As in objective you will hit the same exact scenario if the variant is anything other than Slayer. If you do manage slayer, it’s still not enjoyable. Assault rifles, needlers, plasma auto’s - anything none scope are completely useless. Warthog gunner’s/passengers are all easy to dmr out of their roles as I do so many times to people. Two bad examples of dmr gameplay; Hemorrhage slayer, with a 5 party group on my team, the enemies had a wraith still standing with ours destroyed. We tried a few tactics of plasma cutting the engine etc but were all DMR killed before reaching it. Eventually, we just focus fired shot at the moving wraith all with DMR. In a matter of 15 seconds the wraith was destroyed, by a gun you start with? Really, I’ve never played a game where a accurate rifle can destroy a tank - ridiculous. Why even grab rocket launchers or plasmas if you can sit back at base with a gun that can shoot the entire hemorrhage map length and destroy the toughest vehicles.

Ex 2: Graveyard heavies (or boneyard reg.) There are two banshees in heavies, many times a team will be able to control both. If you’re without a good take down weapon, same tactic, just team up for a few seconds, rapid fire into the banshee with your starting DMR and it will go down. We’ve downed both banshees this way. It is unfair and lacking skill all together. The only vehicles I will step into in heavies is the scorpion tank (occasionally) or revenants or Gauss hog if applicable. Anything else to me is a waste of time, especially aircrafts as you are literally as good as a flying flock of geese waiting to be hit with rifle fire that will bring you down in no time.

I’m not saying DMR’s or Needlerifle (covy equivalent) should be removed from TU playlists. Keep them in the game, there super viable and a great tool. Just do not spawn every player in the map with one. The standard Assault Rifle/pistol combo is a perfect starter. Mid range/power gun with already a scope and a close up automatic is a fine start. You should be made to find a mid-long range rifle and would cause people to actually go for the objective and use other weapons on the map rather than the standard DMR duels or just going for power weapons. IE. rockets, laser etc.

TU was not a good update by any means but I truly did not experience how bad it really is until now. Myself and friends usually will stick to action sack (for variety), team swat/snipers, living dead, Slayer or sometimes Anniversary playlists. Every playlist (except ann. BTB)) is not TU updated , who would of guessed.

To add; 343 - great job on the extra experience on team objective for wins, that is more of a drive for team based playlists and doing the actual task. This should continue with more benefits for winning objective games, scoring objective points etc. Mad thumbs up towards the new living dead maps, heavies add & trying to push objective further.

Just need to look into cutting the standard DMR from everything.

Thanks,

2

I think you need to add a tl;dr because that post was HUGE. Personally, I’m just fine with DMR starts because in playlists like BTB, the maps are just way too big for AR starts. Nobody would use the AR because it’s a close range weapon, and the pistol doesn’t have enough range to be useful.

3

BTB without a DMR start would be terrible… Just try to take down a vehicle with ARs, you’ll cry.

4

The only thing I will give you is team shooting vehicles with the DMR. I agree that it should never inflict that much damage on vehicles. Having better anti-vehicle weapons such as Rockets and the Laser are much more important to vehicle balance.

However, the DMR is an absolute necessity for BTB. Considering the larger maps, it would be necessary to have it to defend yourself against most attacks. The AR isn’t bad at close range, but the AR/Pistol starts would be a nightmare in BTB, let alone normal slayer. The pistol just lacks the range and consistent shot placement needed, and the AR is a pure close-range weapon, even if burst fired. Even with normal Bloom, the DMR was fine for BTB at long range, but the main problem with it was that it didn’t punish spammers at close range enough and had too much aim assist for closer-range spam to hit.

As for objective games ending in stalemates, it requires teamwork to win, as if it weren’t clear enough. Teams need to coordinate in order to push up into the opponent’s territory, lock them down and play the objective. Running a flag/bomb is never safe if all the opponents are alive and shooting at you, but if you cut them down to four or two players alive at a time, or if the opponents are unable to hit you, the objective can be done.

If you watch MLG CTF games, you’ll hear teams calling out how many players on the opposing team are down. A good team never runs a flag until the opponents are down to two or one player, and they run flags away from the opponent. Slaying is important in any game, but in objective games, it gets your team the opportunity to accomplish the objective, so long as the team plays with that in mind and not simply padding stats.

The Needle Rifle would actually be a better weapon to use since it has less range than the DMR and inflicts less vehicle damage. However, the autofire capability makes it too easy to use and has more aim assist. It also doesn’t help that it is a Covenant weapon, and players may prefer to use human weapons by default, since the Pistol/AR/BR are iconic to Halo.

Without the TU, the MLG ZBNS settings, GoldPro and Anniversary would never have come into existence. If you played those gametypes (you already mentioned Anniversary), you would notice much faster gameplay and less gimmicks involved. I hate that Bleedthrough was taken out since without it, shooting and melee were exclusive and required a full commitment. Of course, you don’t have to worry about that now since it was removed in March. What should have been done along with the TU was buff the other weapons so they can kill faster within their ranges.

I’m looking forward to how Halo 4 BTB will be like, especially with both the BR and DMR in the game. Maybe we’ll spawn with both in BTB games?

5

@rockersk I get what you’re saying about team objective and understand that. But my point is any objective games, no one even cares about the objective itself. I very rarely go up against a team that even tries for the object , when I play objective (with 3-4 other people in party). There’s always one guy hiding in the back with a sniper and the rest off on sides just dmr’ing but no one goes for the objective itself. Myself and friends thought much of this would be because of the starting spawn DMR? Since objective it getting 2x exp for wins, I still don’t go against people attempting to win. Either the drive for winning isn’t strong enough or its because you can kill people so easily without so much as moving. I do not know.

@method I don’t mean take down vehicles with a AR. I would rather kill a enemies vehicle by hi-jack, rocket, grenade sticks etc - something impressive. I hate the fact some burst rounds of DMR will instantly drop a vehicle when an AR does almost nothing, as it should be.

And the BTB maps are very large so it may be a slow game pace for sure. We (friends collaborated ideas) thought, if you didn’t spawn with a long range weapon it - may - cause more teamwork. Passenger seats being used, mongooses used for travel etc. It could bring more dynamic into the game with more use of vehicles and team work to get around the map. Just spit balling ideas here though. Different game but I find BF3 does a good job on that, making teams work together and really put to use of transport vehicles and not think of them of something in the way.

Really, whens the last time anyone stepped in a mongoose mid game? lol

6

> BTB without a DMR start would be terrible… Just try to take down a vehicle with ARs, you’ll cry.

Isn’t that the reason we have a magnum?
It scopes, hard to spam, and headshots quite nicely, just without the 3x scope to reach across the map and a small enough clip to kill one person before reload.

When Hemmorhage existed back in Team Objective, I remember the teams playing differently compared to BTB due to all objective gametypes having AR/Magnum starts.
Became more about base assaults than loitering in the middle it seemed.
Of course there were still a ton of vehicles present in that version too…

7

> I’ve been playing a lot more team objective since the 10 person change and Big Team Slayer because of the added Heavies variant (in my opinion, one of the best/funnest things 343 has done yet)into the playlist. There is a major problem that myself and friends also cannot stand that it almost makes it not even worth going into the playlist.
>
> Generally, TU is not a great update for any of us, not fans of the less bloom tweak, bleed through, removed sword block etc - only update I did like from it was the stuck grenades will still kill you even in armor lock and I love armor lock as a load out.
>
> Specifically, starting with a DMR in every game type based on TU update is mind-numbly painful. The DMR is a great gun, its a good edge in almost all situations and its just cool in general. But starting the entire game with them is brutal. In team objective specifically, there is almost no reason to try to return flags, assault with the bomb etc because you’ll be headshot downed in seconds. It gets to a point where no one even cares about the objective and will just find a good spot and DMR enemies until either it ends 0-0 or one team has quitters at that point the higher manned team with score 1 point and return to DMR killing.
>
> What is the point of playing a objective based playlist when it just reverts to basically slayer + swat and people only are going for better KD ratio/kills.
>
> Big Team Slayer - another brutal variant with DMR’s all round. As in objective you will hit the same exact scenario if the variant is anything other than Slayer. If you do manage slayer, it’s still not enjoyable. Assault rifles, needlers, plasma auto’s - anything none scope are completely useless. Warthog gunner’s/passengers are all easy to dmr out of their roles as I do so many times to people. Two bad examples of dmr gameplay; Hemorrhage slayer, with a 5 party group on my team, the enemies had a wraith still standing with ours destroyed. We tried a few tactics of plasma cutting the engine etc but were all DMR killed before reaching it. Eventually, we just focus fired shot at the moving wraith all with DMR. In a matter of 15 seconds the wraith was destroyed, by a gun you start with? Really, I’ve never played a game where a accurate rifle can destroy a tank - ridiculous. Why even grab rocket launchers or plasmas if you can sit back at base with a gun that can shoot the entire hemorrhage map length and destroy the toughest vehicles.
>
> Ex 2: Graveyard heavies (or boneyard reg.) There are two banshees in heavies, many times a team will be able to control both. If you’re without a good take down weapon, same tactic, just team up for a few seconds, rapid fire into the banshee with your starting DMR and it will go down. We’ve downed both banshees this way. It is unfair and lacking skill all together. The only vehicles I will step into in heavies is the scorpion tank (occasionally) or revenants or Gauss hog if applicable. Anything else to me is a waste of time, especially aircrafts as you are literally as good as a flying flock of geese waiting to be hit with rifle fire that will bring you down in no time.
>
> I’m not saying DMR’s or Needlerifle (covy equivalent) should be removed from TU playlists. Keep them in the game, there super viable and a great tool. Just do not spawn every player in the map with one. The standard Assault Rifle/pistol combo is a perfect starter. Mid range/power gun with already a scope and a close up automatic is a fine start. You should be made to find a mid-long range rifle and would cause people to actually go for the objective and use other weapons on the map rather than the standard DMR duels or just going for power weapons. IE. rockets, laser etc.
>
> TU was not a good update by any means but I truly did not experience how bad it really is until now. Myself and friends usually will stick to action sack (for variety), team swat/snipers, living dead, Slayer or sometimes Anniversary playlists. Every playlist (except ann. BTB)) is not TU updated , who would of guessed.
>
> To add; 343 - great job on the extra experience on team objective for wins, that is more of a drive for team based playlists and doing the actual task. This should continue with more benefits for winning objective games, scoring objective points etc. Mad thumbs up towards the new living dead maps, heavies add & trying to push objective further.
>
> Just need to look into cutting the standard DMR from everything.
>
> Thanks,

1: AL sucks

2: DMR kills slower than the starting weapon in every other game in halo history, except maybe the Reach AR, and only when 15+ feet away. It was never a problem then.

3:Kill team->do objective while they respawn. If your games are ending 0-0, its your fault.

4: Your only good point was about the vehicles…

8

> BTB without a DMR start would be terrible… Just try to take down a vehicle with ARs, you’ll cry.

ARs do more damage to Vehicles than DMRs, and Magnums do the SAME damage.

The reason BTB with ARs is bad is because the maps are just too big for it to be feasible. But I agree, the DMR and it’s “Hitscan perfetly straight impossible to miss-ness” makes it REALLY annoying. I much preferred the BR, which became less damaging farther away because of spread and bullet lag(halo2)/travel time(halo3)

9

I agree with all of your points. The DMR is a boring, overrated, overpowered gun that’s really too easy to use (and get killed by).

10

> I think you need to add a tl;dr because that post was HUGE. Personally, I’m just fine with DMR starts because in playlists like BTB, the maps are just way too big for AR starts. Nobody would use the AR because it’s a close range weapon, and the pistol doesn’t have enough range to be useful.

It’s called AR starts on Highlands lulz. Anyone who isn’t blind can see what a joke that is when the two show up together. You are so defenseless off spawn.

OP has a problem with objective holders which is a game style i do not condone. However, its pretty bad once you consider that the game encourages players to do so (rather than play the obj). The longer the match, the more credits you earn…and the stats you can pad.

Look it doesn’t matter what the better team spawns with really. You are still going to get downed but even more so with AR/Mag starts because you simply can’t defend you’re self at range when the other team is using utility and sniper rifles. The Magnum (even when “paced”) has random spread that’s so awful that you’ll miss vital headshots (even when the reticule is clearly at reset value). At least with a DMR you can hit a hidden sniper at range and throw off his aim.

With DMR/Magnum (or DMR/AR) starts and with a bit of skill/coordination, you can push out of a setup and not be totally boned at range. You can burst fire an AR all you want but you can’t argue how ineffective that is against a flyer or a tank.

While the AR does damage to vehicles, it’s not going to down a decent Banshee or a Gauss Hog of any kind unless it’s really weak. The DMR is much better at this due to superior range and enough ammo in the clip to make a difference when team shooting.

11

>

  1. The TU doesn’t have bleedthrough anymore. It got removed.

  2. If you play with friends in Team Objective, then you should be able to coordinate a flag pull. Just kill the other team and push. But TO pretty much gets people to play longer games as it gets them more credits. So, if you win a long game, you will earn even more credits. Sadly, Reach encourages this.

  3. BTB without DMR starts would be just awful. There would be no defending yourself off spawn. Imagine spawning in your base on Hemo with an AR. You wouldn’t be able to take one step out of your base because you have nothing to defend yourself with at range. The pistol is only so good. The random spread even with fully reset bloom is ridiculous. And the pathetically small clip makes it impossible to kill more than one person at a time. And the pistol barely starts with any extra clips.

  4. If you really don’t like the DMR, then why not advocate to replace it with the NR as the starting weapon? Projectile weapon, 2x scope.

12

Not sure why everyone is assuming I’m complaining about losing/tying team objective. We are trying to find a solution to go against teams that actually fight for the objective, not just dmr duel us. You’d think in team objective it would require team work?

Precision based weapons in nature are long wolf style guns. You do not want to be around other team mates which could ruin your cover and want to be in full view of enemy spawn to pick them off one by one. Swat (one of my favs) has no team work, completely solo, in fact the less players you have on your team the better, 4 vs 1. The one person (if good) will wipe the other team.

@vintage to #3, if no one spawned with a dmr, then why would your team respawning need long range weapons to defend themselves? There’s a limited amount of precision weapons in BTB so you would not have to fight a onslaught of dmr fire to get out of your spawn.
Also Hemm has a large variety of vehicles to use, might make people use them. And without 8 people dmr focusing firing at you, they are a good advantage.

I don’t understand the purpose, of making objective game types (adding no drive to win except to just rack up headshot medals) making big team slayer and playlists built on team work then starting everyone with weapons that go against it? Half the vehicle arsenal is a waste and any automatic weapon they’ve ever created is unusable in these variants.

Am I missing the big picture or do people just care now about a better KD spread and not about the win, fun or teamwork? I’m sorry but the most fun I’ve had in TU’s in a long time was last night Myself and a friend utilizing the warthogs through hemm BTB - still getting owned but broke positive lol.

We came to a conclusion a dmr spawn was a big reason for lacking teamwork that why i posted this. In action sack shotgun assault is a genius game, it’s so heavily teambased and rewarding when you plant the bomb (maybe cause the shotgun is close range, forces you into the fray?). There’s other types like this too and all the same level of teamwork but they don’t have the heavy precisions? It’s a idea.

Our disappointment is in the lacking teamwork. The amount of people who will full out betray everyone for the weapon they wanted is ridiculous, always the sniper - specifically in hemm.

13

> Not sure why everyone is assuming I’m complaining about losing/tying team objective. We are trying to find a solution to go against teams that actually fight for the objective, not just dmr duel us. You’d think in team objective it would require team work?

I never said you were complaining. Holding the objective on purpose to pad and play slayer in obj is not good. Bad enough the game encourages it with more credits the longer the match lasts.

> Precision based weapons in nature are long wolf style guns. You do not want to be around other team mates which could ruin your cover and want to be in full view of enemy spawn to pick them off one by one. Swat (one of my favs) has no team work, completely solo, in fact the less players you have on your team the better, 4 vs 1. The one person (if good) will wipe the other team.

That’s because it’s Swat. You don’t need to team shoot because the shields are already dropped. While you still need set up and gain power positions, i can see why you view the DMR that way.

Outside of Swat, the gun is a tool for team shooting. You cannot argue this when a coordinated team shot can down a player in just a few short seconds or a Banshee being shot down. It’s amazingly beautiful when done correctly. A DMR by itself is not as effective and therefore should not be considered a lone wolf gun (outside of Swat that is).

> Am I missing the big picture or do people just care now about a better KD spread and not about the win, fun or teamwork? I’m sorry but the most fun I’ve had in TU’s in a long time was last night Myself and a friend utilizing the warthogs through hemm BTB - still getting owned but broke positive lol.
>
> We came to a conclusion a dmr spawn was a big reason for lacking teamwork that why i posted this. In action sack shotgun assault is a genius game, it’s so heavily teambased and rewarding when you plant the bomb (maybe cause the shotgun is close range, forces you into the fray?). There’s other types like this too and all the same level of teamwork but they don’t have the heavy precisions? It’s a idea.
>
> Our disappointment is in the lacking teamwork. The amount of people who will full out betray everyone for the weapon they wanted is ridiculous, always the sniper - specifically in hemm.

You are missing the big picture. It’s how a lot of full teams play against those who are casual/just want to chill out and not try hard. BTB is full of players who don’t know how to set up properly and good players take advantage of this through objective gametypes knowing full well they can’t lose so they stat padd by setting up epic spawn traps and locking you down with sniper/vehicle/DMR fire.

Then the team mates that betray or suck at the game is the result of the lax trueskill system paring you up with trolls and morons. The way to remedy this is go full team you’re self if you don’t want randoms.

Is it right to hold? No. However, the teams that hold the objective have superior team work and coordination. Enough to cause people to quit out or go negative. However, holding the objective is just cheap but at the same time, losing map control BTB and getting punished for is anything but cheap. I really wish Reach rewarded objective playing and not Team Slayer within obj.

14

> You are missing the big picture. It’s how a lot of full teams play against those who are casual/just want to chill out and not try hard. BTB is full of players who don’t know how to set up properly and good players take advantage of this through objective gametypes knowing full well they can’t lose so they stat padd by setting up epic spawn traps and locking you down with sniper/vehicle/DMR fire.
>
> Then the team mates that betray or suck at the game is the result of the lax trueskill system paring you up with trolls and morons. The way to remedy this is go full team you’re self if you don’t want randoms.
>
>
> Is it right to hold? No. However, the teams that hold the objective have superior team work and coordination. Enough to cause people to quit out or go negative. However, holding the objective is just cheap but at the same time, losing map control BTB and getting punished for is anything but cheap. I really wish Reach rewarded objective playing and not Team Slayer within obj.

With swat yes I know its because its a one shot but the principles still apply. Objective clearly is broken but as wolfawoo said when a AR/magnum was a starting weapon it caused base assaults and not lurkers in the mid map firing at people. Your point about the banshee, I get it but I do not think its beautiful, just team firing a banshee with a dmr isn’t much skill and it doesn’t make sense. Any game I’ve played that starts you with closer range weapons forces you to enter the battlefield rather than hide even if your trying to collect a weapon. 2vs2, team slayer, action sacks objectives etc are all heavy team based and fast paced, the only conclusion I can think of is because of the fact the weapons given are close up and it requires you to assault as a team and enter mid-field rather than hide.

As a example. I’ve played Delta Facilities - Heavies a few times now. It has two wraiths, 4 rockethogs I believe, 2 chainhogs, 2 ghosts and one Falcon. Now the wraiths are used, hogs…occasionally and I’ve seen the Falcon used once which was lasered before it left ground. Now, the entire game is the enemy team (or your team depending on who gains control first) sitting on the high bridge like structure dmr’ing everyone on the battlefield. There is a laser that spawns there so no need to worry about wraiths and there is so much adequate cover you cannot be touched. From ground you can’t see the enemies clearly and they have easy mobility and from high they can clearly see the field and DMR lock you to death as you work the map. Now, you can’t say this could easily be avoided by not giving the entire team full map length heavy powered guns. The AR/Magnum combo would completely eliminate this because you would gain no benefit from being that high up (or at least your entire team).

15

> > You are missing the big picture. It’s how a lot of full teams play against those who are casual/just want to chill out and not try hard. BTB is full of players who don’t know how to set up properly and good players take advantage of this through objective gametypes knowing full well they can’t lose so they stat padd by setting up epic spawn traps and locking you down with sniper/vehicle/DMR fire.
> >
> > Then the team mates that betray or suck at the game is the result of the lax trueskill system paring you up with trolls and morons. The way to remedy this is go full team you’re self if you don’t want randoms.
> >
> >
> > Is it right to hold? No. However, the teams that hold the objective have superior team work and coordination. Enough to cause people to quit out or go negative. However, holding the objective is just cheap but at the same time, losing map control BTB and getting punished for is anything but cheap. I really wish Reach rewarded objective playing and not Team Slayer within obj.
>
> With swat yes I know its because its a one shot but the principles still apply. Objective clearly is broken but as wolfawoo said when a AR/magnum was a starting weapon it caused base assaults and not lurkers in the mid map firing at people. Your point about the banshee, I get it but I do not think its beautiful, just team firing a banshee with a dmr isn’t much skill and it doesn’t make sense. Any game I’ve played that starts you with closer range weapons forces you to enter the battlefield rather than hide even if your trying to collect a weapon. 2vs2, team slayer, action sacks objectives etc are all heavy team based and fast paced, the only conclusion I can think of is because of the fact the weapons given are close up and it requires you to assault as a team and enter mid-field rather than hide.
>
> As a example. I’ve played Delta Facilities - Heavies a few times now. It has two wraiths, 4 rockethogs I believe, 2 chainhogs, 2 ghosts and one Falcon. Now the wraiths are used, hogs…occasionally and I’ve seen the Falcon used once which was lasered before it left ground. Now, the entire game is the enemy team (or your team depending on who gains control first) sitting on the high bridge like structure dmr’ing everyone on the battlefield. There is a laser that spawns there so no need to worry about wraiths and there is so much adequate cover you cannot be touched. From ground you can’t see the enemies clearly and they have easy mobility and from high they can clearly see the field and DMR lock you to death as you work the map. Now, you can’t say this could easily be avoided by not giving the entire team full map length heavy powered guns. The AR/Magnum combo would completely eliminate this because you would gain no benefit from being that high up (or at least your entire team).

The reason why i oppose AR starts on bigger maps is that the AR and Magnum are not suitable counters to vehicles when you don’t have the option to grab power weapons. The magnum is inconsistent even in range and paced (it’s spread is super random and inconsistent).

Not only that, players that want the DMR usually swap out the AR. Now imagine snipers and DMRs against your team who only have AR and Magnum on spawn. Now with a set up its going to be much more difficult (if not impossible) to push out because of the weapons you start out with. Your bullet hose will be ineffective at longer ranges and good luck on sniping with the magnum (it works when it wants to :()

What i am really trying to say that while you may prefer AR/Mag starts, that’s really hurting you in BTB. You can’t team shot, you can’t demolish vesicles (in fact they will demolish you) and you are are at a disadvantage at range when the other team is using higher end weaponry.

Teams hotting does take skill, you are just being close minded about it IMO. Prove to me that randoms have consistent team shot and that’s when i will believe you because not every team can do it effectively. It requires a good, steady aim and to be aware. Calling out is also key as you relay important information to what to concentrate your fire on next with your team mates. It’s an effective technique to lock down your opponents and prohibit them from pushing on you. It makes perfect sense because the Banshee (or The Falcon) show up often in BTB and threats you should neutralize. Best way to do that besides power weps is team shooting and it works.

Action Sack games are faster because they usually give you power weapons (shottys, pro pipes, lasers etc), 2 V 2 maps are up to 25 ish kills and like TS, use smaller based maps.

For AR starts on objective, that really depends on the teams. If they hold, you are in for a world of hurt and a long game. If they suck, it’s over quickly but competent? The game will also last longer than usual.

That structure you speak of is not viable to use AR/Mags this is correct. However, when i played Delta not only three or four were up their at a time but then eventually we just vehicles :stuck_out_tongue:

Of course that’s what makes it important to get to that upper structure first so you gain that advantage when you do sapwn with DMRs. This is part of setting up a trap and is a perfectly normal thing to do. If you don’t and fail to gain the advantage, your opponents will take notice and set up on you if you are not careful.

16

Don’t you think it adds a new element of strategy to Team Objective?

17

> The reason why i oppose AR starts on bigger maps is that the AR and Magnum are not suitable counters to vehicles when you don’t have the option to grab power weapons. The magnum is inconsistent even in range and paced (it’s spread is super random and inconsistent).
>
> Not only that, players that want the DMR usually swap out the AR. Now imagine snipers and DMRs against your team who only have AR and Magnum on spawn. Now with a set up its going to be much more difficult (if not impossible) to push out because of the weapons you start out with. Your bullet hose will be ineffective at longer ranges and good luck on sniping with the magnum (it works when it wants to :()
>
> What i am really trying to say that while you may prefer AR/Mag starts, that’s really hurting you in BTB. You can’t team shot, you can’t demolish vesicles (in fact they will demolish you) and you are are at a disadvantage at range when the other team is using higher end weaponry.
>
>
> Teams hotting does take skill, you are just being close minded about it IMO. Prove to me that randoms have consistent team shot and that’s when i will believe you because not every team can do it effectively. It requires a good, steady aim and to be aware. Calling out is also key as you relay important information to what to concentrate your fire on next with your team mates. It’s an effective technique to lock down your opponents and prohibit them from pushing on you. It makes perfect sense because the Banshee (or The Falcon) show up often in BTB and threats you should neutralize. Best way to do that besides power weps is team shooting and it works.
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> Action Sack games are faster because they usually give you power weapons (shottys, pro pipes, lasers etc), 2 V 2 maps are up to 25 ish kills and like TS, use smaller based maps.
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> For AR starts on objective, that really depends on the teams. If they hold, you are in for a world of hurt and a long game. If they suck, it’s over quickly but competent? The game will also last longer than usual.
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> That structure you speak of is not viable to use AR/Mags this is correct. However, when i played Delta not only three or four were up their at a time but then eventually we just vehicles :stuck_out_tongue:
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> Of course that’s what makes it important to get to that upper structure first so you gain that advantage when you do sapwn with DMRs. This is part of setting up a trap and is a perfectly normal thing to do. If you don’t and fail to gain the advantage, your opponents will take notice and set up on you if you are not careful.

Keep in mind I do NOT play halo without at least one of my friends with me, as it is not enjoyable at all by myself. So with vehicle destruction, spawn killing etc it is easy for me as I play with the same group of people all the time. I’m not matched with all randoms, usually we are half the BTB team so it is simple to mass DMR vehicles/people etc. Its not fun though, none of it is entertaining or enjoyable to sit in the same region for 10 minutes. I’m sorry but spawn killing is not skill imo nor is it actually enjoyable. Every scenario your describing to is being locked at your spawn. Both teams start at the same level, so why are you making it seem like team 1 gets snipers dmr’s etc all weapons while team 2 is sitting at base for 2 minutes then decide to emerge? They both begin at once.

Unfortunately I do not find much skill out of DMR locking teams. It’s slow and for the most part, the defeated team usually will lose a number of members due to quitting or they will just hide until match ends. Happened a lot of living dead too (use of the magnum, not dmr I’m aware) but original maps such as the cage, once someone turned into a zombie they would hide til round end. I try not to quit at best but if a team is watching my team’s entire spawn and we can’t get anywhere. Why not just sit at base and wait for game end, the other team won’t assault, why would they? There in the best spot and why risk a death right? AR/Magnum may not be a solution either, its a idea. But I can say to me, racing to a specific area and first team to control it is a broken system as well.

Edit: And i used action sack as a example and pinpointed exactly my example of Shotgun Assault. That has no power weapons and no long-range tools, yet it is the most fun and team based variant I have come across in all of Reach’s playlist. You generalize action sack but I’m specifically picking a excellent team variant that has no sign of range.

18

Whats TU?

I never know that all those abbreviations mean.

19

Title Update. It has removed sword block, less Bloom a few other tweaks and Default starting weapons DMR and AR.

@explained and no. If you jump in a few objectives, just watch. it’s just a killing fest but no one goes for the objective. Just a easy way to rack KD.