TU Invasion

Games Other Halo
#1

Invasion is by far my favorite playlist, as I think it manages to combine slayer with objective quite nicely. However, I’ve noticed that 343 is slowly making all playlists TU. I would like to express my thoughts on why I think it should stay vanilla.

Population seems to be fine with it.
At its peak, the invasion playlist can have over 4000 members. That’s 4000 people playing two gametypes on mostly just two maps. Has this gotten stale? Maybe, but not enough to drive people away, as is evidence by its continually high population. It could use some more maps, but obviously the invasion players are happy with the playlist the way it is. I don’t ever see Team Snipers or Objective at consistently over 4000 members. So why Invasion? Because it’s a blast, in its current form.

Armor Lock Modifications
Anyone who’s played an intense game of invasion knows that the grenades, rockets, and banshee bombs rain down with no end. By implementing the TU armor lock changes, invasion would turn into a sticky-fest, banshee-bomb pooping session. Armor lock currently allows Spartans to survive against elites who get two plasmas each spawn, and it protects them (at least for a while) from the omnipotent banshee bomb. Explosions are commonplace, and nerfing AL in this playlist would take alot of the fun out of the experience.

Bloom Reduction
The elites spawn with the goo-blaster on first phase, while Spartans get pistols and DMRs. This is difficult enough as it is. Reduced bloom would only give the Spartans a further advantage. While elites spawn with the NR for phases 2 and 3, this is less important because of the less extreme bloom in the NR, plus all the extra sandbox additions in phases 2 and 3 like heavy weapons and vehicles. Phase 1 would be almost impossible for the elites in all but extreme cases.

Bleedthrough
The objectives tend to lead to plenty of CQC, and map design also brings this about. With bleedthrough and automatic weapons galore for phase 1, this would immediately turn into AR-PR mutual pummels, almost exclusively. It’s already enough of a problem getting pummeled for every other death anyway… bleedthrough would worsen this problem substantially.

I’m okay with sword block and camo modifications (not that those are a big deal anyway), but 343 seems to insist that the TU be an all-or-nothing deal. Why design a TU with the ability to toggle modifications if you never toggle them?

Discussion is welcome, of course. I don’t know how much good it will do, but hopefully someone in charge will read this and be able to understand my thoughts.

inb4tldr
inb4chinacalled
inb4opcantinb4

#2

Invasion needs it’s unbalanced phases fixed before getting a TU that would unbalance them even more.

#3

I’d like it, but the assault team needs more precision weapons in that case, imagine boneyard with DMRs raining on the elites.
I’d honestly like to see it TU’d

#4

> Invasion needs it’s unbalanced phases fixed before getting a TU that would unbalance them even more.

Agreed. Invasion Slayer on Hemorrhage comes to mind almost immediately. One word: unbearable.

However I don’t see how any TU changes could work to fix the current balancing issues; those are problems of map design and weapon sandbox.

#5

tu in invasion?
i say no

#6

> However I don’t see how any TU changes could work to fix the current balancing issues; those are problems of map design and weapon sandbox.

Boneyard phase 1
-Add 2nd spawn for elites or place current spawns behind cover/inside houses

Boneyard phase 2
-Nothing

Boneyard phase 3
-Remove shotty/AL loadout or swap the AL/shotty with an other ability.
Like give the current holo loadout the AL, and the AL loadout the holo.

Spire phase 1
-Add DMRs for spartans

Spire phase 2
-Remove AL loadout

Spire phase 3
-Add barrier to the banshee.
Game is pretty much over is a good spartan pilot grabs hold of the banshee.

Breakpoint
Never played, can’t say.

Invasion slayer
I’d just nuke the gametype as there as so many things wrong with it.

#7

Invasion is fine the way it is. The Boneyard Elite spawns need a serious shakeup. If you were to implement the TU now, the Elites wouldn’t stand a chance.

They get slaughtered by the DMRs anyway, let alone having bleed-through come in and make things worse.

And it’s just so easy to spawn trap in Invasion. Numerous times I’ve seen a guy kill his victim(s), then throw a well timed Plasma Grenade at the ground, resulting in an instant kill. And since the Elites spawn with Plasma Grenades, he can just go over and pick some more up.

But I say it’s their own fault if they get spawn trapped, because they’re the ones who put themselves in that position. Decent players can easily avoid this.

#8

Long story short?

Invasion was one of the few things in Reach meant to go along with REACH itself, not the Halo brand in general. Just Reach, this being the case, this is why it’s doing great population wise. To apply TU is to try and make it more inline with past games, and Invasion just wasn’t built for the past style of play.

Sure, there some broken things, and there needs to be more maps, but this can be fixed with the options we are given in Vanilla.

#9

> > However I don’t see how any TU changes could work to fix the current balancing issues; those are problems of map design and weapon sandbox.
>
> Boneyard phase 1
> -Add 2nd spawn for elites or place current spawns behind cover/inside houses
>
> Boneyard phase 2
> -Nothing
>
> Boneyard phase 3
> -Remove shotty/AL loadout or swap the AL/shotty with an other ability.
> Like give the current holo loadout the AL, and the AL loadout the holo.
>
>
>
> Spire phase 1
> -Add DMRs for spartans
>
> Spire phase 2
> -Remove AL loadout
>
> Spire phase 3
> -Add barrier to the banshee.
> Game is pretty much over is a good spartan pilot grabs hold of the banshee.
>
>
> Breakpoint
> Never played, can’t say.
>
>
> Invasion slayer
> I’d just nuke the gametype as there as so many things wrong with it.

I guess I thought you were talking about more fundamental changes, like why Invasion Slayer is so unbalanced. Quite right, the spawnpoints need to be altered so that players can toggle between two or more locations during phase 1, so that they can break a spawn trap. Boneyard spawns need to be reworked, but that shouldn’t be difficult.

Honestly though, Invasion has gone without an update for so long, it’s almost like these problems have been grandfathered in. Updates would almost seem to go against the spirit of Invasion. Almost.

#10

TU is horrible, except for Armor Lock fix, seriously, a guy shoots you just once and then melees you and you die, it’s so unbalanced

#11

> TU is horrible, except for Armor Lock fix, seriously, a guy shoots you just once and then melees you and you die, it’s so unbalanced

While I don’t disagree, that’s more pertinent to other playlists and not Invasion.

Updating AL would make the loadout entirely useless for its intended function. It could deflect one banshee bomb and couldn’t protect you from stickies (which are far easier to land in Invasion when Elites get 2 per spawn, and Spartans are often standing still in objectives.)

Title-updating AL would reduce the loadout to have but one purpose: the dreaded and n00bish “lock and pop” CQC abuse that plagued team slayer for so long.

#12

I just want a consistent gameplay model to be overlaid across all playlists, whether its TU or default (preferably default) 343i needs to quit segmenting its audience and give people back the game they paid for.

#13

> TU is horrible, except for Armor Lock fix, seriously, a guy shoots you just once and then melees you and you die, it’s so unbalanced

Highly uninformed complaint thus, rendering your complain, invalid.

#14

> I just want a consistent gameplay model to be overlaid across all playlists, whether its TU or default (preferably default) 343i needs to quit segmenting its audience and give people back the game they paid for.

I’m just afraid that they will continue to push the TU onto every playlist, even when it doesn’t need it. Invasion could use some new maps (may be difficult because of splitscreen lag) but it doesn’t need TU changes. I’ve watched playlists go TU for the past couple of months, and I fear invasion could be next.

I have a conflicted opinion about the TU in general, but to discuss it would be beyond the scope of this thread. Suffice it to say, the TU should stay out of invasion.

#15

>

You should be glad TU wasn’t implemented everywhere right off the bat.

#16

Man I was all for the TU being in Invasion to spice things up for once, but after reading this my mind has changed. I still beg for new maps in Invasion and the removal of invasion slayer badly. If they fix those two things by them self I would be happy. But I expect 343i to possibly do a voting system for Invasion like they did with Team Slayer. But time will tell.

#17

> >
>
> You should be glad TU wasn’t implemented everywhere right off the bat.

this.

most games’ TUs would have changed the core mechanics of every custom game and gametype that exists.

#18

Actually no, very rare have developers put out an update that actually changes the core gameplay and some would say combat philosophy of the game they bought (old tactical based vs new aggression based) Infact its rather unprecedented i think. Updates are only meant to make small hindsight tweaks to a game that was completed prior to launch.

343i knew this is a big change despite what some TU apologists try to claim. Thats why theyve done a staggered rollout. I am atleast thankful for this small piece of prescience from 343i during the imposition of this damn update. If it really wasnt a big deal they would have changed the lot in one go.

#19

Any and all gametypes with Elites MUST stay Vanilla.

TU Elite Slayer is infinitely worse than Vanilla Elite Slayer, as the NR is now ridiculously overpowered, and only one loadout has it. As well nerfing Camo, and Armor Lock removes the ONLY useful aspect of those loadout choices, giving the NR loadout the advantage of a TU NR, a Noob Combo, AND an Evade.

It wouldn’t be absolutely terrible for Armor Lock if it wasn’t for the fact that they removed sticky shed. Which was a GOOD thing, except that you aren’t PROTECTED from a stick’s damage. Grenades SHOULDNT fly off your body when you AL, but they also SHOULDNT kill you.

Most Elite weapons are fairly broken with TU Melee too, too many “2 shot punches” with Plasma Pistols and “3 shot punches” with Plasma Rifles. Even Needler + Melee is as, if not more powerful than AR + Melee, which is already ridiculous.

#20

I’ve spoken about this before, and I support keeping Invasion on Vanilla settings.