TU Elite SlayeR. A mistake.

Today I found myself going into Big Team Battle and got into a 6v6 lobby. After a voting none of the above, we get elite slayer on Wayont. The game was a fun experience. I went in on a rather good map and team and had such a good time I don’t remember if I won or lost. But the important thing was the gameplay. I started with a nice dose of needle rifle sprinkled with some plasma pistol. Gradually I moved on to use the needler with camo and then ended the game with a nice top weapon of a plasma repeater. The game type was chaotic, but thrilling at the same time. I could use different weapons and needle rifleman were dangerous, but able to be dealt with.

Later I go into multi team in search of the chaotic fun that the playlist entails. I find a similar gametype called TU Elite Slayer. It has the same loadouts as the original. However, only one is needed. When I spawn I find the needler is heavily outgunned by its cousin the rifle. Plasma repeaters are effectively useless as is any of the other armor abilities save for evade. There was no chaotic fun here. Only explosive boredom and repetitive marksmanship with no sign of any chaos or change in weaponry. Simply needle rifles and perhaps the plasma pistol for extreme cases. What was once a fun and interesting multi team gametype devolved into a marksman contest who’s annoying gameplay was only less aggravating than the terrible bleed through melee system.

TU Elite slayer especially in Multi Team is nothing but a glorified needle rifle marksman contest. People don’t use the fun armor abilities and other elite weapons anymore. They simply use the fully automatic headshot capable rifle that is given on spawn which has no bloom whatsoever. If I even think about using another weapon the only one truly usable are the power weapons and even some of them translate into useless shield stopping tools that do little. One doesn’t even have time to take the shields down sometimes as the other rushes quickly guns blazing and melees them when they have half their shield still up.

Simply put. Multi Team TU Elite slayer isn’t a good gametype in the least and it would be nice if it were the only gametype in Multi Team unaffected by the title update. I’ll admit to not being a fan of the update, but it hasn’t encroached to the entirety of the matchmaking network and I’m fine with where it is. But elite slayer simply doesn’t work anymore with the title update. There just isn’t any point in playing it anymore.

This is the whole problem with the TU update. It’s making everything but the DMR and NR useless (same with the magnum, depends on which settings). Some people say they were already useless but that just means we have to work towards weapon balance, not making it worse. That would be like if Valve decided to make the Demoman stronger rather then nerf him as much as they have.

If people want to play a DMR only gametype they’re more then welcome to. But forcing everybody to play their way, going against everything that has made Halo great, will do nothing but hurt the community.

Sounds like Elite Slayer might actually playable now.

I found myself actually enjoying the TU Elite Slayer. Maybe it’s cause I enjoy playing as Elite’s more than Spartan’s, but also because it’s crazy, but also adds new tactics into thinking how to win the match, but thats just me speaking what I think of it.

> I found myself actually enjoying the TU Elite Slayer. Maybe it’s cause I enjoy playing as Elite’s more than Spartan’s, but also because it’s crazy, but also adds new tactics into thinking how to win the match, but thats just me speaking what I think of it.

See, I don’t really understand how it gives you more tactics. If anything, it limits tactics for me. I mean, evade and a needle rifle, isn’t exactly a fairly broad selection. And the other weapons are effectively useless. I live playing as elites as well, but it turns it into another one of the title update’s annoying “skill” gametypes.

I agree with the first response to this thread. A minority of people are trying to force marksman gametypes to everyone. Next they’re going to ask for all DMR starts and remove all weapons save for the power weapons. People are trying to change a game that people have played and gotten used to over a full year just so suit their selfish needs for a “skill” based multiplayer. If I want to play DMRs fine, I’ll play it and school you skill lovers, but I don’t want to use just a damn DMR and Needle Rifle all the time. I want to be able to use other weapons.

That was one of the things I loved about Reach. It nerfed the marksman weapons which have always been too powerful. With this update they’re not only too powerful, but they’re just like the BR in Halo 2/3, so powerful nothing short of a rocket launcher is useful.

TU Elite Slayer is a blast. The plasma weapons serve their role: baseball bats.
No AL Sticky shedding, so nades are worthwhile.
No bloom NR. It has no randomness, accuracy is rewarded.

The Jetpack loadout just needs no grenades off spawn.

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The marksmen weapons were never too powerful, the other weapons just all suck. Reach is a suspect to this, too, just with a useful pistol. People don’t want AR starts because they can’t properly defend themselves off spawn, and are limited to close range.

DMR/NR starts promote variety because those specific weapons work well at any range, and aren’t limited to just one like the AR and Pistol.

Every automatic weapon(the only non-power weapons) function all the same, and promote boring close-range-only combat. Variety isn’t just what reskinned AR you have in your hands.

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> The marksmen weapons were never too powerful, the other weapons just all suck. Reach is a suspect to this, too, just with a useful pistol. People don’t want AR starts because they can’t properly defend themselves off spawn, and are limited to close range.
>
> DMR/NR starts promote variety because those specific weapons work well at any range, and aren’t limited to just one like the AR and Pistol.
>
> Every automatic weapon(the only non-power weapons) function all the same, and promote boring close-range-only combat. Variety isn’t just what reskinned AR you have in your hands.

First off, your post is incredibly biased by the fact that you just say that close range combat is boring. The start off weapons are not meant to be incredibly powerful as they are support weapons designed to make you survive, and if you have some skill, own with them. They encourage the search for more powerful weapons while some may actually like using them. I can’t tell you how frustratingly annoying it is when people pick slayer pro or slayer dmr’s over slayer.

I don’t want to start off with an overpowered (yes they are, a gun that can kill in half a second if spammed 4-5 shots to the head is just overpowered) marksman weapon. I want a good close range weapon that can actually encourage me to change it up a little. If anything, DMR games are the dull and repetitive gametype.

> First off, your post is incredibly biased by the fact that you just say that close range combat is boring. The start off weapons are not meant to be incredibly powerful as they are support weapons designed to make you survive, and if you have some skill, own with them. They encourage the search for more powerful weapons while some may actually like using them. I can’t tell you how frustratingly annoying it is when people pick slayer pro or slayer dmr’s over slayer.

That is the DMR. The AR is either limited to close range, or totally impractical at mid range. The DMR gives you kills if you’re skilled, and is something to defend yourself off spawn while you pick up weapons. Hmm… sounds a bit like what you said. The only difference is that DMRs are useful at all ranges, and power weapons are picked up instead of an essential weapon.

Your post is incredibly biased for saying the DMR is dull, it works both ways, friend.

> I don’t want to start off with an overpowered (yes they are, a gun that can kill in half a second if spammed 4-5 shots to the head is just overpowered) marksman weapon. I want a good close range weapon that can actually encourage me to change it up a little. If anything, DMR games are the dull and repetitive gametype.

Half second? No, try 1.7 seconds. That has been about the regular kill time of any weapon in Halo, Bungie has just been making the automatic weapons not only weaker, but samey.

They are only dull because you think that the AR, PRi, PRe, Spiker, etc. are all different. They may have different damage tables, but function all the exact same way.

> > First off, your post is incredibly biased by the fact that you just say that close range combat is boring. The start off weapons are not meant to be incredibly powerful as they are support weapons designed to make you survive, and if you have some skill, own with them. They encourage the search for more powerful weapons while some may actually like using them. I can’t tell you how frustratingly annoying it is when people pick slayer pro or slayer dmr’s over slayer.
>
> That is the DMR. The AR is either limited to close range, or totally impractical at mid range. The DMR gives you kills if you’re skilled, and is something to defend yourself off spawn while you pick up weapons. Hmm… sounds a bit like what you said. The only difference is that DMRs are useful at all ranges, and power weapons are picked up instead of an essential weapon.
>
> Your post is incredibly biased for saying the DMR is dull, it works both ways, friend.
>
>
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> > I don’t want to start off with an overpowered (yes they are, a gun that can kill in half a second if spammed 4-5 shots to the head is just overpowered) marksman weapon. I want a good close range weapon that can actually encourage me to change it up a little. If anything, DMR games are the dull and repetitive gametype.
>
> Half second? No, try 1.7 seconds. That has been about the regular kill time of any weapon in Halo, Bungie has just been making the automatic weapons not only weaker, but samey.
>
> They are only dull because you think that the AR, PRi, PRe, Spiker, etc. are all different. They may have different damage tables, but function all the exact same way.

The weapons all have a reasonable killing time except the DMR/ NR. Those two push most of the other weapons away as you can easily 5sk someone at CLOSE RANGE before he AR’s you to death. DMR’s make the gameplay quickly become stale, just take a look at Hemmorhage in BTB for example.

The thing that 343 should understand is that the 3 precision weapons (Magnum included) ALL have different amounts of Bloom. Simply applying 85% to all of them makes the rate at which bloom resets faster than the killing time (as it doesn’t expand as much) on the NR as it already had the least bloom out of the 3. We need to find the “sweet spot” between ROF, Bloom, and Damage or else the sandbox will remain with precision weapons dominating.

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That’s not those weapons’ faults, Hemmorhage is a dull map, it is just a pair of bases in an open field. Of course long-ranged weapons will dominate. The AR takes more than half a magazine to kill with. I think when that happens, a weapon is just underpowered. Bloom also helps the DMR excel at close range, since each shot provides an even larger area for shots to hit. ZB, and by extension, 85% NR fix this.

On a gametype without NR starts, the Needle Rifle becomes more of a stronger Focus Rifle that can acquire headshots. This makes it an actually viable pickup, and it practically makes Elite Slayer a ZB gametype.

The sandbox has been dominated by precision weapons since Halo 2. Look to Halo CE for near-perfect balance of a sandbox. Every weapon was unique and had its own individual role. With a slightly buffed AR and Plasma Repeater, and removing the redundant weapons, we can get pretty close to the fragile balance that we got in CE. Just a random thought, but I would like the Plasma Repeater to never vent on its own, so you must manually vent it. Just as something different. Maybe plasma stun again.

> >
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> That’s not those weapons’ faults, Hemmorhage is a dull map, it is just a pair of bases in an open field. Of course long-ranged weapons will dominate. The AR takes more than half a magazine to kill with. I think when that happens, a weapon is just underpowered. Bloom also helps the DMR excel at close range, since each shot provides an even larger area for shots to hit. ZB, and by extension, 85% NR fix this.
>
> On a gametype without NR starts, the Needle Rifle becomes more of a stronger Focus Rifle that can acquire headshots. This makes it an actually viable pickup, and it practically makes Elite Slayer a ZB gametype.
>
> The sandbox has been dominated by precision weapons since Halo 2. Look to Halo CE for near-perfect balance of a sandbox. Every weapon was unique and had its own individual role. With a slightly buffed AR and Plasma Repeater, and removing the redundant weapons, we can get pretty close to the fragile balance that we got in CE. Just a random thought, but I would like the Plasma Repeater to never vent on its own, so you must manually vent it. Just as something different. Maybe plasma stun again.

The issues with 85% bloom in TU Elite Slayer is the Needle Rifle is now completely accurate, so the other weapons in the loadouts are useless. And Reach has pretty good weapon balance. The issue lies with balancing the precision weapons by a combination of Bloom, ROF, and Damage and increasing the accuracy of the Plasma Repeater.

> > I found myself actually enjoying the TU Elite Slayer. Maybe it’s cause I enjoy playing as Elite’s more than Spartan’s, but also because it’s crazy, but also adds new tactics into thinking how to win the match, but thats just me speaking what I think of it.
>
> See, I don’t really understand how it gives you more tactics. If anything, it limits tactics for me. I mean, evade and a needle rifle, isn’t exactly a fairly broad selection. And the other weapons are effectively useless. I live playing as elites as well, but it turns it into another one of the title update’s annoying “skill” gametypes.
>
> I agree with the first response to this thread. A minority of people are trying to force marksman gametypes to everyone. Next they’re going to ask for all DMR starts and remove all weapons save for the power weapons. People are trying to change a game that people have played and gotten used to over a full year just so suit their selfish needs for a “skill” based multiplayer. If I want to play DMRs fine, I’ll play it and school you skill lovers, but I don’t want to use just a damn DMR and Needle Rifle all the time. I want to be able to use other weapons.
>
> That was one of the things I loved about Reach. It nerfed the marksman weapons which have always been too powerful. With this update they’re not only too powerful, but they’re just like the BR in Halo 2/3, so powerful nothing short of a rocket launcher is useful.

Trust me, I use alot of dodge rolling which is one kind of tactic since I cannot rely on the AL(Which I do not like whatsoever) plus I need to keep myself out of the heat of the crowd and pick other’s off from the distance. We both do have our own points of views on this whole TU thing with elite slayer so I’m not ganna counter act on your opinion.

The needler shouldn’t even be a starting weapon in elite slayer. The elites hitboxes are huge, making dodging a needler at anything outside of close range impossible. It was the most abused weapon in elite slayer after they lowered the grenade count and nerfed the AL loadout.

This is a halo game. Precision weapons kill faster than spray weapons when aiming at the head, because this requires more skill. The spray weapons kill times vs precision weapon body shot kill times are the pretty much the same. The advantage of using spray weapons comes into play in close range where aiming with precision weapons and landing headshots becomes more difficult against a strafing opponent.

Even before the TU, elite slayer heavily favored the NR.

> The needler shouldn’t even be a starting weapon in elite slayer. The elites hitboxes are huge, making dodging a needler at anything outside of close range impossible. It was the most abused weapon in elite slayer after they lowered the grenade count and nerfed the AL loadout.
>
> This is a halo game. Precision weapons kill faster than spray weapons when aiming at the head, because this requires more skill. The spray weapons kill times vs precision weapon body shot kill times are the pretty much the same. The advantage of using spray weapons comes into play in close range where aiming with precision weapons and landing headshots becomes more difficult against a strafing opponent.
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> Even before the TU, elite slayer heavily favored the NR.

The needler is fairly easy to evade from my experience, but I guess that’s more about how you play the game.

Elite slayer however never fully went with the NR. It could be used, but it could be defeated by a skilled spray weapon. Halo has favored prescision weapons, that is true. But it’s also an annoying fact. Games should be accessible to all, which means precision weapons should be balanced like they are in default Reach. An assault rifle can beat a DMR. A plasma repeater can beat a needle rifle.

I think if the NR gets 85% bloom then all spray weapons should get it to.

> > The needler shouldn’t even be a starting weapon in elite slayer. The elites hitboxes are huge, making dodging a needler at anything outside of close range impossible. It was the most abused weapon in elite slayer after they lowered the grenade count and nerfed the AL loadout.
> >
> > This is a halo game. Precision weapons kill faster than spray weapons when aiming at the head, because this requires more skill. The spray weapons kill times vs precision weapon body shot kill times are the pretty much the same. The advantage of using spray weapons comes into play in close range where aiming with precision weapons and landing headshots becomes more difficult against a strafing opponent.
> >
> > Even before the TU, elite slayer heavily favored the NR.
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> The needler is fairly easy to evade from my experience, but I guess that’s more about how you play the game.
>
> Elite slayer however never fully went with the NR. It could be used, but it could be defeated by a skilled spray weapon. Halo has favored prescision weapons, that is true. But it’s also an annoying fact. Games should be accessible to all, which means precision weapons should be balanced like they are in default Reach. An assault rifle can beat a DMR. A plasma repeater can beat a needle rifle.
>
> I think if the NR gets 85% bloom then all spray weapons should get it to.

If they don’t beat the NR at close range, they never will. Bloom makes the NR harder to use in close range, since the reticule is much smaller than any other weapon you can spawn with. It is also balanced since Needle Rifles are on the map, and the other loadouts get different armor abilities like Camo and Jetpack.

> They are only dull because you think that the AR, PRi, PRe, Spiker, etc. are all different. They may have different damage tables, but function all the exact same way.

No they don’t! Not in Reach 1.0. For example, the AR and PRe are much better against health than against shields. The opposite is true for the PRi and Spiker. So, 5 quick hits from a PRi or Spiker and then a melee is a kill against a fully shielded Spartan. Not so for an AR or PRe (they require 11 hits before a single melee will kill). Conversely, if someone has no shields, they can be quickly dispatched by a PRe (7 hits) or an AR (8 hits); not so with a PRi or a Spiker. PRis and Spikers have no spread; ARs and PRes do. PRis overheat; the other three do not (though a PRe does slow down instead). When fired in small bursts, the AR is incredibly precise and can even hit a mid to long range target accurately. Etc.

TU Elite Slayer is terrible because everyone uses the needle rifle and it gets really annoying but, they still can’t handle me.

> > They are only dull because you think that the AR, PRi, PRe, Spiker, etc. are all different. They may have different damage tables, but function all the exact same way.
>
> No they don’t! Not in Reach 1.0. For example, the AR and PRe are much better against health than against shields. The opposite is true for the PRi and Spiker. So, 5 quick hits from a PRi or Spiker and then a melee is a kill against a fully shielded Spartan. Not so for an AR or PRe (they require 11 hits before a single melee will kill). Conversely, if someone has no shields, they can be quickly dispatched by a PRe (7 hits) or an AR (8 hits); not so for a PRi or a Spiker. PRis and Spikers have no spread; ARs and PRes do. PRis overheat; the other three do not (though a PRe does slow down instead). When fired in small bursts, the AR is incredibly precise and can even hit a mid to long range target accurately. Etc.

They’re still not that different enough to actually promote any joy in me. The only thing I like about the PRe is the venting system, but the weapon vents itself, so it is pointless.

> > > They are only dull because you think that the AR, PRi, PRe, Spiker, etc. are all different. They may have different damage tables, but function all the exact same way.
> >
> > No they don’t! Not in Reach 1.0. For example, the AR and PRe are much better against health than against shields. The opposite is true for the PRi and Spiker. So, 5 quick hits from a PRi or Spiker and then a melee is a kill against a fully shielded Spartan. Not so for an AR or PRe (they require 11 hits before a single melee will kill). Conversely, if someone has no shields, they can be quickly dispatched by a PRe (7 hits) or an AR (8 hits); not so for a PRi or a Spiker. PRis and Spikers have no spread; ARs and PRes do. PRis overheat; the other three do not (though a PRe does slow down instead). When fired in small bursts, the AR is incredibly precise and can even hit a mid to long range target accurately. Etc.
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> They’re still not that different enough to actually promote any joy in me. The only thing I like about the PRe is the venting system, but the weapon vents itself, so it is pointless.

That’s way different from falsely claiming they all function exactly the same.