TrueSkill2 Feedback

Community General Discussion
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I’m going to try to keep this as constructive as possible.

I’ve never been a fan of the true skill 2 ranking system since it was first introduced in Halo 5. I believe basing the matchmaking and ranking system on MMR is bad. I think most of the population agrees but for some reason we can’t seem to convince 343 so I’m going to give it another go.

Every player is your customer and the most important thing for any company is customer experience. MMR gives me a bad experience.

I believe the foundation of any ranking system should be win = rank increase, lose = rank decrease with the exception of 3v4 situations. Call me crazy but I think the goal of any game should be to win and if you can do that then you deserve some CSR. And stats can determine exactly how much, although it should always be more than 1 imo with maybe a few exceptions. I also think game time should factor into your CSR increase as in if you beat a team in 3 minutes it’s going to limit how good your stats are but you obviously destroyed the other team and that should be reflected in your rank. Players shouldn’t be punished for being efficient. I don’t know if any of this is taken into account in your ranking system because I can’t see the rank that my games are based on (MMR).

Recently it was revealed that you still gain MMR for losing a game as long as your stats are good. This is so confusing, I thought the point of a playing a game was to win, I guess it’s to stat? This is a huge disconnect between 343 and the community. If the point of the game is just to get good stats (and it shouldn’t be) then that needs to be more clear to players somehow.

Why MMR gives me a bad experience:

From what I understand a player that has a Diamond 1 MMR but a Platinum 1 CSR would be put into games with other Diamond players but this makes it so much harder for players to get out of Plat. The difficulty I experience shouldn’t be the same when I’m Plat 1 as it is when I’m diamond 1 just because my secret hidden rank says I’m already diamond 1. I can’t see my secret hidden rank, so it’s irrelevant. If I get trashed talked in game for being plat 1 am I supposed to say “I’m not really plat 1, my MMR is diamond 1”? No. No one cares.

I’m not a fan of my CSR being limited by my MMR, I can’t see my MMR and so I don’t care that it exists. I’m not even suggesting that it should be taken out. I just think more care needs to be put into how games impact a player’s CSR and my CSR should NEVER be limited by my MMR. If I’m winning games I expect to gain rank and when I don’t I feel very unmotivated to play. In fact, I stop playing all together. I actually don’t play halo infinite anymore but I would like to, I just find the matchmaking system so unenjoyable.

I don’t really fully understand the need for so much of the matchmaking and ranking system to be based on MMR, I think it could easily be updated to just use CSR instead and if I’m wrong I’d love to hear why. To be honest I think 343 is overcomplicating the ranking system. In apex it’s as simple as wins and kills = increase in rank. Why can’t we get that kind of transparency here?

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You may be interested in this article:
`https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/closer-look-halo-infinites-ranked-experience’

I don’t know whether it addresses your concerns though.

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it doesn’t help that there are no br only modes outside of ranked and swat, so someone might be a killing machine with an AR but utterly suck with a BR

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Being as constructive as possible, it’s bad

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There are some fans :slight_smile:

But I would think most of the population couldn’t care less!

Which is essentially how ELO systems work.

Agree. 343 need to look at the 3v4 situation ASAP.

Which is exactly how it works now. Win and your CSR goes up by 1 to 15 points. Lose and it goes down.

Not sure why it needs to be more than 1?

The whole x-axis of the CSR is completely arbitrary. 0 to 1800. 1 to 50. Bronze to Onyx. It’s all just a range made up by 343 to suit the experience.

You’re not.

The movement of CSR and MMR is based pretty much on the win / loss.

Any weightings, eg K/D or kills/minute are not inhibited by time. We don’t know what is used and to what extent. The suspicion is K/min (from the discussion paper) so being expedient is probably better anyway.

I agree this needs further clarification.

I imagine it’s an exceptional case - probably a change in weightings during placement.

But mixed-messages is confusing.

This sort of discrepancy only happens just out of placement. Your skill curve is still wide and volatile. Your CSR is conservative (lower than your MMR).

But the important point is that the system thinks you are around Diamond 1 and is happy to match you vs Diamonds. If it’s right (and it usually is by this stage) you will have no problem competing and ranking up very quickly. Your MMR is actively trying to pull your CSR up and because your curve is wide and volatile it is happy to do so.

Onyx players who are initially placed as Diamond describe ranking up to Onxy in a handful of games.

The tricky bit is that your MMR is your rank. But it’s a curve that gives a range of possible skill. So you need a CSR of some type (eg. 1 to 50) to translate this value.

This is the big problem. A skill rank should never go up just because you win a game. It has to be tied to the rank of your opponent.

What you are describing is an XP system. Or a W/L ratio. Neither of which describe your skill level.

343 are working on an XP system. Hopefully it’s weighted to skill (wins and medals). And this should satisfy the itch of those who need game by game reward / gratificiation.

Because match-making needs to be based on the skill level.

If your CSR is no longer reflecting your skill rank, or is doing it less accurately, then match-making will suffer.

We know that ELO systems are faster and more accurate than result sorting.

I’m a fan.

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My open playlist is ranked at plat 6 and my controller playlist is ranked at plat 1. I randomly played a game yesterday on my Plat 1 to get BR kills for a challenge.

We won and I went up half a rank - there were diamonds in the game. However if I play on on Plat 6 it has been moving up by a quarter.

So if you do win the games you will move through Plat a lot quicker if your MMR is in diamond say. But yes it can be difficult to move through Plat if you’re not winning every game.

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I guess I just think you’re wrong lol game is dead for a reason