Im not the best at reading all of the extended lore but i do try and do research into new canon that is out there. Lately however i feel like 343 is getting so convoluted with all of the different story telling platforms that the canon is becoming confusing. As an example i would like to point to the domain. It started as essentially a forerunner equivalent of the internet that provided an almost collective conscience of their civilization. But then it became the organon… then it became Abaddon… It seems like an unnecessary attempt to create new story lines or to over-explain something that really would have been much simpler as it was originally presented. It was nothing short of confusing to me. What is this, inception?
So that leads me to ask, is the 1.) amount of lore and 2.) lack of coordination between 343 and their storylines, actually taking away from the halo universe? Is it becoming too convoluted?
I dont want to get rid of the lore, but i think instead of shelling out book after book, or the various other outlets, the process needs to be centralized and streamlined by 343 to make sure that first and foremost the storytelling is the logical and immersive, not just trying to invent all these crazy plot twists and new stories for the sake of sales. What do you think?
No its not a bad thing at all. You could be lost or confused. That happens.
Quite the opposite really. The more lore and the deeper it is, the better that the series becomes. The amount of avenues to expand it just makes it better. Many good series get dragged down because they don’t have enough extra space to fill in the lore and there’s simple worldbuilding stuff that gets completely overlooked. Halo does not have that problem and I am eternally greatful for it.
What they COULD do is make the lore a bit more accesable in-game, like they did with the Phoenix Logs in HW2.
I should also note that Abbadon is not THE Domain, just part of it. Its guardian. And the fact that its so much more than just a “Forerunner Internet” makes it all the better.
The domain was started to be an ancient, mysterious thing to forerunners from the outset, it becoming the organon isn’t too outrageous and fits with the rest of its protrayal throughout the forerunner saga.
Randomly making organon some weird misinterpretation of Abaddon though does seem silly though. Though I’m guessing precursors if they ever get proper names are going to all get angel/demon names.
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> I should also note that Abbadon is not THE Domain, just part of it. Its guardian.
Then what is the Warden Eternal?
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> > 2533274907200114;3:
> > I should also note that Abbadon is not THE Domain, just part of it. Its guardian.
>
> Then what is the Warden Eternal?
He’s guardian of Genesis specifically I think, or at least, its Domain portal. Cortanas fragment was dragged there along with the remnants of Mantle’s Approach after all. Thats why she brings the Guardians there. Or perhaps, the gatekeeper to the Domain, whereas Abbadon is the caretaker and director of it.
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> The domain was started to be an ancient, mysterious thing to forerunners from the outset, it becoming the organon isn’t too outrageous and fits with the rest of its protrayal throughout the forerunner saga.
>
> Randomly making organon some weird misinterpretation of Abaddon though does seem silly though. Though I’m guessing precursors if they ever get proper names are going to all get angel/demon names.
The Domain initially seemed to me like a metaphysical self-conscious realm or entity that contained all the knowledge/memories and essences of the beings who existed in the comsos and this knowledge could be accessed by the living if they knew how like the Akashic Reocrds/Plane. With Halo 5 and recnt lore additions it seem to be making more like a sci-fi digital construct like the Grid from Tron Legacy or a Simulated/Virtual Reality from other sci-fi stuff. Aself-awre one but a Simulated/Virtual Reality non-the-less.
Also as far as names go, names and terms like Didact, Librarian, Faber, Organon, Abaddon etc. wouldn’t be the true names of these things or beings, just translations or the closest approximations or using analogous words familiar to the viewer, derived from the history, culture and mythology of the modern human civilization. This explains why Abaddon is called such in human translations as it is a fmailiar idiom to them. The true name of Abaddon is unknown.
> 2533274817408735;5:
> > 2533274907200114;3:
> > I should also note that Abbadon is not THE Domain, just part of it. Its guardian.
>
> Then what is the Warden Eternal?
I believe the story “Promises to Keep” in Halo Fractures provides evidence that the Domain is a part of Abaddon, which he made available to the Forerunners, rather than being something separate from him. This would make the Warden Eternal just the Forerunners’ gate-keeper they placed to protect “their” means of accessing the Domain. Killer Orca and I disagree on this point, but as much as I’m convinced of my interpretation, I’m not sure the evidence is solid enough to definitively say that Killer Orca’s interpretation is proven wrong.
We all know that in Halo Silentium (pg322), the Flood tells the Librarian enough for her to piece together that the Domain is the Organon, and on page 119 of Halo Fractures we learn that “Organon” is a corruption of the name Abaddon.
If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. The Domain is Abaddon, or at least part of him. This is tenuous evidence, but I believe we have further evidence that the Domain is part of Abaddon (Halo Silentium pg 121). Chant-To-Green treats them as interchangable in her solution (which was ultimately carried out by Growth-Through-Trial-of-Change). Abaddon is subdued and the Domain reborn with a single action, the sacrifice of a Lifeworker to serve as a template for Abaddon to be revived to what he was meant to be.
> Abaddon was re-creating our own, familiar technology in a more organic fashion, I realized it was learning from us. And… I suspected it needed a template of some sort to be revived." Not repaired, he noted. "I think Trial believed as I did, that Abaddon needed a Lifeworker mind, or genetic pattern, or something from one of us.
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> > 2533274964189700;4:
> > The domain was started to be an ancient, mysterious thing to forerunners from the outset, it becoming the organon isn’t too outrageous and fits with the rest of its protrayal throughout the forerunner saga.
> >
> > Randomly making organon some weird misinterpretation of Abaddon though does seem silly though. Though I’m guessing precursors if they ever get proper names are going to all get angel/demon names.
>
> The Domain initially seemed to me like a metaphysical self-conscious realm or entity that contained all the knowledge/memories and essences of the beings who existed in the comsos and this knowledge could be accessed by the living if they knew how like the Akashic Reocrds/Plane. With Halo 5 and recnt lore additions it seem to be making more like a sci-fi digital construct like the Grid from Tron Legacy or a Simulated/Virtual Reality from other sci-fi stuff. Aself-awre one but a Simulated/Virtual Reality non-the-less.
>
> Also as far as names go, names and terms like Didact, Librarian, Faber, Organon, Abaddon etc. wouldn’t be the true names of these things or beings, just translations or the closest approximations or using analogous words familiar to the viewer, derived from the history, culture and mythology of the modern human civilization. This explains why Abaddon is called such in human translations as it is a fmailiar idiom to them. The true name of Abaddon is unknown.
Previous lore has made mention of Forerunner equipment being so advanced at translating that it takes similar equivalents from the readers own language and supplements them into the text being read, hence why the Halo 3 terminals mentioned the Forerunner Magniont Line, whereas the actual name for it was something else (the name escapes me at the moment). All current and previous Forerunner-based stories have been translations for the most part, taken from recovered items.
Lack of lore coordination is always a bad thing, but too much lore could never be bad as long as you don’t shovel it in people’s faces.
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> No its not a bad thing at all. You could be lost or confused. That happens.
Im not really confused… i mean i understand it, its just not good story telling. 343 has a way of doing something while doing nothing. example = the didact dying in the comics. people who dont know just think he died in halo 4, then he dies in the comic as an excuse to be able to sell a comic book series, then there are essentially no gaps to fill because people who dont read the lore are like yeah of course hes dead… thats a prime example of lore being expanded for literally no reason. the story went nowhere. the janus key story went nowhere, the universe has not changed. if you start an arc it should have a lasting effect in the universe.
> 2535406833481471;11:
> > 2533274805386380;2:
> > No its not a bad thing at all. You could be lost or confused. That happens.
>
> Im not really confused… i mean i understand it, its just not good story telling. 343 has a way of doing something while doing nothing. example = the didact dying in the comics. people who dont know just think he died in halo 4, then he dies in the comic as an excuse to be able to sell a comic book series, then there are essentially no gaps to fill because people who dont read the lore are like yeah of course hes dead… thats a prime example of lore being expanded for literally no reason. the story went nowhere. the janus key story went nowhere, the universe has not changed. if you start an arc it should have a lasting effect in the universe.
I didn’t read the comics. But I know a little about them.
Outside of a few weak lore additions that failed 343’s continuing to do a fantastic job with the expanded universe. Bungie had a terrific go at it, but in the end 343 has just about outdid them.
I personally love it and the more I get into it, the.more excited I get for Halo 6.
It shouldn’t be that hard for 343 to give people more backround information whenever they bring stuff from extended universe to halo games.
Having deep and expansive lore is not an issue. The problem is when things are not explained well (if at all), and certain elements of the lore are shoehorned in.
meh.
it’s only a big deal if you’re the kind of fan that loves to know how many Elites can dance on the head of a pin. Pretty much all fiction has this problem, and it’s a balance between telling too much, and coming up with new stories. Star Wars was like that with the old canon (which I was blissfully unaware of) and is slowly heading in that direction again with the new Disney canon.
Personally, I’m of the opinion that whenever you explain everything the universe starts to feel a little smaller. But the nice thing is that as much as people whine about Halo 5’s story, you can play just the core games and Reach and know everything you need to know without getting lost. You just need to pay a little more attention to the cutscenes and what the npcs and your squadmates are saying.
I would love to read some of the books though.
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> meh.
> it’s only a big deal if you’re the kind of fan that loves to know how many Elites can dance on the head of a pin. Pretty much all fiction has this problem, and it’s a balance between telling too much, and coming up with new stories. Star Wars was like that with the old canon (which I was blissfully unaware of) and is slowly heading in that direction again with the new Disney canon.
> Personally, I’m of the opinion that whenever you explain everything the universe starts to feel a little smaller. But the nice thing is that as much as people whine about Halo 5’s story, you can play just the core games and Reach and know everything you need to know without getting lost. You just need to pay a little more attention to the cutscenes and what the npcs and your squadmates are saying.
>
> I would love to read some of the books though.
Some the old Star Wars canon is pretty good to excellent such as KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 The Sith Lords video games. For the books my favorites would Darth Plagueis, Cloak of Decption, Labyrinth of Evil, The Star Wars Episode 3 novelization, and Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader. Other stuff isn’t that great but it’s all subjective.
> 2533274869999832;17:
> > 2535415966174493;16:
> > meh.
> > it’s only a big deal if you’re the kind of fan that loves to know how many Elites can dance on the head of a pin. Pretty much all fiction has this problem, and it’s a balance between telling too much, and coming up with new stories. Star Wars was like that with the old canon (which I was blissfully unaware of) and is slowly heading in that direction again with the new Disney canon.
> > Personally, I’m of the opinion that whenever you explain everything the universe starts to feel a little smaller. But the nice thing is that as much as people whine about Halo 5’s story, you can play just the core games and Reach and know everything you need to know without getting lost. You just need to pay a little more attention to the cutscenes and what the npcs and your squadmates are saying.
> >
> > I would love to read some of the books though.
>
> Some the old Star Wars canon is pretty good to excellent such as KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 The Sith Lords video games. For the books my favorites would Darth Plagueis, Cloak of Decption, Labyrinth of Evil, The Star Wars Episode 3 novelization, and Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader. Other stuff isn’t that great but it’s all subjective.
RepCom (books and game both, though SOMEHOW Traviss’s skills didnt seem to transfer over to Halo well), the X-Wing novels.
getting confused isn’t the problem with a large and well thought out lore. the real problem is the lack of mystery which is something halo use to be big on.
Any story that goes on long enough get convoluted