Too much change is never good.

Am I the only one who thinks people expect way too much from 343i? Now hear me out, I don’t agree with a lot of the features they put in halo 4. Load outs and perks and personal ordinance was a bit much for me. To me I don’t think classic halo is so horrible that the new halo’s should start sprinting the other direction. I just can’t seem to understand the hate towards classic halo. I don’t get why people demand change when the last classic halo game (halo 3) was so successful. Yes it did die a lot but It took like four years. And even look at it now it has a peek population of about 11 thousand players. Halo 4’s is I think somewhere around 20 thousand. Now while halo 4 is higher its not by a lot if you consider there age difference. So why does halo have to change so much there really hasn’t been a classic halo game that didn’t keep a huge population playing for less then four years.
So what’s everyone’s problem? People keep saying halo needs to change to stay alive but it looks like that is exactly what’s killing it. I think people expect to much from one game IMO. People want a one size fits all video game and that’s too much to ask for, cause that’s when they try to please everyone and put way to much into a game. Now I think halo should stay halo. Why does it have to have this and that and this and that because another game does or cause most games do?
Why can’t people just play different games from time to time? Why if you want more options can’t you play cod or battlefield or ac4 or gears? Wouldn’t it be easier to find a game that has what you want? Or make more sense then forcing features into a game that was never meant to have them simply because you’re bored of the kind of gaming halo offers. I think it’s unfair to the community and to 343i to ask them to make a game change and have things it was never meant to have and to make a game that never gets old and then stand there and get mad when you see halo losing out to other games, and say that halo needs to change even more when that’s only gonna make it worse. Ever heard of the saying more is less? That’s halo 4 it seems like it has more when it really doesn’t.

Now I think people are/have played too much halo. I know sounds impossible but it’s true. A game can only be played so much before it gets old. Not to say its to old in general but to old for you maybe you should play other games do other things and I bet you over reasonable amount of time your love and want to play halo will come rushing back. But classes were never meant for halo. My brother who use to play halo all day every day now play cod pretty much always. He loves halo but he got bored of it and felt the need to play something else. Now I’m not saying anyone has to start playing Cod or anything. I personally can’t stand that game but I do respect cod.
Why you ask? Well as much as people like to say its dumb the all the cod games are a lot alike.
I thinks it’s a great thing that they’re sticking to what cod is and not copying someone else’s success.
To me that’s not milking a game. IMO milking a game is when you keep trying to copy new and successful games as they come out because you don’t have any faith or respect in your own product. If halo can’t be a success by being halo then it shouldn’t be made at all. And I personally don’t want them to stop making halo games it’s the only mp game I play.
But sometimes you need to stop and think is it really classic halo the bothers me or is it because I play one mp game to much.

We all have loved halo from the time it came out to today. and each halo game from the first trilogy love them or hate them was different. I can’t stand AAs but I loved equipment. Why? Because it was something new and fresh that didn’t hurt core gameplay.
If you take equipment out of halo 3 you would never have even knew it was ever in the game.
But If you take AAs out of halo 4/reach it plays and feels like -Yoink-!.
New ideas are good but if the game plays like garbage because there not in the game, then you’ve been messing with the core of halo.

And I just don’t get it to be honest, how people can claim to be the biggest halo fans around but if the game doesn’t have all the same features as every other shooter people get mad and say halo is boring and that it should change.
No other game can play like halo plays.
Could you imagine weapons being on map in cod?
Or having shields in bf4?
Or having a Battle rifle in ac4?
While great things about halo not so much in another game.
So why should halo be more like them, when halo’s way of doing things is so much better.
And wanting to sprint because you’re a spartan is not enough reason to have such a thing.
In the books some Spartans were moving at speeds up to 55mph. That would be annoying as -Yoink- in mp.
Just because it makes sense as far as realism doesn’t mean you should be Able to do it.

There can never be a one size fits all video game.
And it’s not fair to ask 343i to make a success out of game by changing what made it a success in the first place.
If you want something different play something different.
Why does halo have to change when you could just play a game that already has everything you want, and was built around it.
And having everyone you play with be on the same page as you as to why the game you’re playing is so fun.
Now like I said I’m not saying people have to leave halo and never comeback, but it doesn’t hurt from time to time to play something else.
But if you look at the most successful games they don’t change very much.
Like super smash bros. or cod, or bf4. Or ac4 or gears.
Lost planet tried to change and look what happened to them. I was a big lost planet fan, and I didn’t even know lost planet three was out until like three months after it came out because it got to far away from what made it great and fun and got a very bad rep for it.

So all I ask is that people be a little reasonable when they think about new ideas or what should stay and go.
Cause if halo keeps changing it won’t even be an arena shooter anymore.

Ps. Sorry for the long post just like to make sure I make sense and I’m clear about what I’m trying to say and why. Thanks for your time, and please leave constructive opinions below. https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst233994_Classic-vs-modern-demo.aspx

Totally agree that there has been too much change in the halo franchise. There have hardly been any changes that make multiplayer better since Halo 2. Everything they have tried to make the game more “flashy” from adding equipment and dual wielding in Halo 3 to AA’s and POD’s in Halo 4 has made the gameplay worse. If they would have just stuck to the strong core of halo gaming the halo community would be thriving rather than diminishing. Just imagine H2 with Halo 3 graphics and Halo 4 shot registration! Would be 10x better than H4 is now.

I also agree that they are tryin too hard to compete directly with COD. They ripped load outs and sprint straight from those games. I also believe they tried to make halo more noob friendly like COD by adding more one shot weapons, making the AR stronger and having random weapon drops. Effectively killing the competitive nature of halo with all the randomness. Which I think completely backfired on them as the competitiveness of halo is where I thought the advantage lied.

I agree that with trying to combine all the successful aspects (the identities) of different games with your own game will not make it automatically any more successful or form a better experience but it will very likely lose its own identity.

I think the lack of a clear identity was the main issue of Halo 4’s multiplayer. The issue wasn’t necessarily the new additions and features but that the multiplayer seemed to be an arena shooter and a class based shooter at the same time, what made it nothing really individual or recognizable, in my opinion.
I mean, Battlefield’s MP is known for its massive battles, its “realistic” war spectacle and its classes. COD’s MP is known for its custom loadout system and its easy accessible gameplay and mechanics.
But for what is Halo 4’s MP actually known for? I think nothing really concrete or deciding.
Former Halo titles’ MPs have primarily been known for terms like fairness, equality and balance. Easy to pick up but hard to master.

Fortunatley, Halo has a strong foundation with its massive, beautiful and beloved lore and universe, what offers it the opportunity to be highly successful outside of the multiplayer.
But I think in regard to multiplayer it has to find a clear and individual identity again.
I think either go back and build upon and advance the former identity or create an entirely new one.

People did complain about but halo reach that was only about one AA which armour lock but the game offered a lot more than what you were sacrificing which wasn’t much and when halo 4 came it was like they grounded reach and sent it to its room were it was unable to express itself (silly smilie but you get the point lol) the ordinance drops sounded good but made the game unbalanced as someone could get a rocket launcher but the best thing you could of gotten was plasma grenades. You gave to remember that this is next gen Halo, people want to see a huge leap like halo 2 to halo 3.

People aren’t demanding change though…if anything, they’re demanding it to CHANGE BACK!! The game was neglected way too heavily. Most of the custom games options gone, MP heavily unbalanced, game breaking mechanics that no one likes (save for a few people), bits and pieces of the campaign not fully explained to the level that it should be, many plot holes, and the incredibly slow pace of spartan ops, not to mention some poor story telling decisions that negatively impacted the great potential that it had. Oh, and then we have basic features such as theatre mode, and file share that are completely absent in the game, and a lack of competitive ranking system. Now, i don’t exactly drool over ALL of those things. In fact, i know crap all, but even i know that they are basic features that should be there from the beginning. Its not change that’s ruining Halo, its how these changes are handled and the amount of neglect that went into developing Halo 4. If they take all of those things into consideration, the i’m sure the population will stick around for longer.

I’m sorry but halo 4 changed a lot to much.
They need to go back to Halo’s roots of success.
AAs need to go how many halo games have to suffer through this idea of AAs and load outs before they get that it just wont work.
IMO AAs are a handicap button for people who lack the skill to fight with just there gun.
People can’t expect halo 5 to change even more just because its next gen.
Because that’s an excuse people like to use to reason that what they want isn’t that big of a deal when it in fact brakes the game.
Yes next gen should be good but that’s the difference it should be good not different.
Like one of you guys said better halo 3 graphics and halo 4’s shot registration. And I think they should drop AAs and sprint and just increase base movement speed.
And they should build on the idea of equipment from halo 3. Because equipment was something new a cool but could be takin out and the game would stil play just fine.

There’s a point I think we’re generally missing about change. In a marketplace as diverse as this no game needs to be the Omni-product, the one which can dominate all. Nor should it because such consolidated power is boring (see what happens to any genre when one game rules). So we say “make our game better according to what made it desirable in the first place” which is a perfectly reasonable statement to make. However in applying that statement we ask 343 not to change the gameplay mechanics (within reason) that made Halo so enjoyable back in 2001, 2004, or 2007 or whatever, assuming that all we need to do to get back to form is reprint the formula that worked so well for us.

But that worked NOT because the intrinsic value of melee, no-bloom, and no-abilities but because of how Halo fit within the genre at the time which was, I might say, far less developed than it is now. You look at even the lowliest shooters and you’re just as able to do stuff (to interact with the environment and use weapons) as you are today. With additional mechanics too those games can have even richer, deeper gameplay than Halo 1, 2, 3, or even 4. So what do we gain by simply going back to the fundamentals? Well, nothing because we won’t have replicated the setting too which is how we were able to find such favorable impressions of Bungie’s haphazard work. In going back in that overly-literal way we will only have removed what improvements have been made to Halo thus far (however awkward and unwieldy they may be) and perhaps put it into an even less tenable position (ie. one dependent on how nostalgic people are for the glory days of the original Xbox. As it stands not many outside of this community seem to care about it.)

What 343 needs to do instead is to imagine what a modern Halo game would be, IE. apply a creative interpretation of what Halo is and apply that to what a Halo would be like if it succeeded in those same qualities that CE or Halo 2 did but for today’s technological and conventional standards. We may first start by cutting the unnecessary fluff from the modern Halo design, but then (most critically) we need to move beyond the original design and into the unexplored territory of (for example) even more organic sandboxes, even more intuitive combat interactions, and campaigns that are even further driven by player initiative.

This may even require that long-standing features, mechanics, or design tropes be nixed should they interfere with this Halo reimagining as not every single component of the original games did not necessarily contribute to the final positive aspect. But in any event we shouldn’t stop at a remake of classic Halo. That’s spent creative ground that can’t possibly hope to recreate the social environment that made those games in their time have such a big impact. Always we need to move intelligently beyond that.

> People did complain about but halo reach that was only about one AA which armour lock but the game offered a lot more than what you were sacrificing which wasn’t much and when halo 4 came it was like they grounded reach and sent it to its room were it was unable to express itself (silly smilie but you get the point lol) the ordinance drops sounded good but made the game unbalanced as someone could get a rocket launcher but the best thing you could of gotten was plasma grenades. You gave to remember that this is next gen Halo, people want to see a huge leap like halo 2 to halo 3.

Well I think with the way everything is now that halo next gen should see a huge leap.
A huge backwards.
Classic halo has been gone for far to long that’s what I wanna see on next gen halo classic halo done right with better graphics and shot registration.
And I want the origanal art style back idk about you guys but this new art style is kinda metroid primey to me.
Cartoony feeling to say the least.
Halo should stay halo and that’s that.
If you have a problem with classic halo then you have a problem with halo.

> If you have a problem with classic halo then you have a problem with halo.

Ummm… No

Because I want halo to changed for the better, you say I have a problem with halo but I’m a massive fan I’ve played them all so I must have a problem? There are people who are arrogant that when there is a good idea just kick it away because it’s not like the previous halos, now so we are clear halo 4 wasn’t the best but it did have some nice new ideas the Promethens are cool enemies that are more challenging than the flood, I prefer the new colour scheme were the world looks more colourful and vibrant instead of it being gloom and doom, the sprint makes things more fast pace especially for big maps so I don’t have to walk across a huge stretch of land to get into a fight, the load outs weren’t all bad the idea having the option of using DMR rather than a BR and get this not everyone likes having to use the same guns people have preferences, also the some AAs also made things more interesting and tactical e.g a shield to help you retreat or protect you from a sniper a long range so you can get close enough and fight, or thrusters that allow you to quickly dodge projectiles now because you weren’t able to take advantage of the AA system doesn’t mean that others weren’t too so why should they not have that because you don’t want it. Now granted the ordinance drops were unbalanced but they could make it so that all you get is equipment like a bubble shield or a trip mine. Also if you are complaining that the next halo should be more like halo 2 or 3 because you didn’t like the last two then you have a problem with halo not me :slight_smile:

Gotta find that balance. Don’t go all the way back to 3’s style (too boring now) but not as chaotic as 4’s style.

If you make a classic halo game again it will succeed.
Stop pushing this bad space age cod peice of -Yoink-.
Classic halo was balanced fun and fair.
Where with halo 4 nobody can agree on anything and the population is deing faster then any halo game ever.
You can’t just keep making excuses for why it doesn’t work it sucks that’s why it doesn’t work the numbers prove this.

> Because I want halo to changed for the better, you say I have a problem with halo but I’m a massive fan I’ve played them all so I must have a problem? There are people who are arrogant that when there is a good idea just kick it away because it’s not like the previous halos, now so we are clear halo 4 wasn’t the best but it did have some nice new ideas the Promethens are cool enemies that are more challenging than the flood, I prefer the new colour scheme were the world looks more colourful and vibrant instead of it being gloom and doom, the sprint makes things more fast pace especially for big maps so I don’t have to walk across a huge stretch of land to get into a fight, the load outs weren’t all bad the idea having the option of using DMR rather than a BR and get this not everyone likes having to use the same guns people have preferences, also the some AAs also made things more interesting and tactical e.g a shield to help you retreat or protect you from a sniper a long range so you can get close enough and fight, or thrusters that allow you to quickly dodge projectiles now because you weren’t able to take advantage of the AA system doesn’t mean that others weren’t too so why should they not have that because you don’t want it. Now granted the ordinance drops were unbalanced but they could make it so that all you get is equipment like a bubble shield or a trip mine. Also if you are complaining that the next halo should be more like halo 2 or 3 because you didn’t like the last two then you have a problem with halo not me :slight_smile:

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

I beat -Yoinking!- -Yoink- at halo 4/reach so stop with this you’re just mad because you’re not good at it. Halo 4 is not hard under no circumstances is it hard. Going 30 and 5 every game isn’t fun. I like a challenge not this big random idiot fest that throws whoever into a game with who ever with AAs ruining map flow because jet pack sprint and seeing through walls doesn’t take skill but it doesn’t mean I can’t use them it means I think that I doesn’t belong.
I can go into cod and go 25+ every game I’ve done it.
But that doesn’t make it fun.
Just because you need to fly with a rocket to have fun doesn’t mean we should put up with it.
You’re standards are to high for an arena game.
With AAs perks ordnance drops 3 different pistols 4 different rifle 4 different assault rifles and ect.
It’s like trying to balance every gun in cod.
It can’t be done.
Accept that they tried with halo 4 and it didn’t work.
Numbers speak for themselves.

> > If you have a problem with classic halo then you have a problem with halo.
>
> Ummm… No

Be constructive.
Um no is not a constructive response.

> If you make a classic halo game again it will succeed.
> Stop pushing this bad space age cod peice of Yoink!.
> Classic halo was balanced fun and fair.
> Where with halo 4 nobody can agree on anything and the population is deing faster then any halo game ever.
> You can’t just keep making excuses for why it doesn’t work it sucks that’s why it doesn’t work the numbers prove this.

Making it classic doesnt guarantee a success

Halo 4 is hardly COD and barely any of the features from it have to stay, some should though like AAs, sprint and loadouts

Modern halo can be balanced and fair if loadouts are balanced properly

People agree on many things in halo 4. Plus the population was caused by many things not purely the lack of classic such as lack of assault invasion etc., lack of custom game options, lack of decent forge maps, being spread over several games on the 360 which have these things (not to mention one being free)

Excuses, its more like logic arguments. If anything simply saying ‘modern halo sucks’ is an excuse for classic. You can modern and classic.

> > > If you have a problem with classic halo then you have a problem with halo.
> >
> > Ummm… No
>
> Be constructive.
> Um no is not a constructive response.

Neither is you insulting people who prefer modern over classic and rather modern over classic. Practice what you preach.

> > > If you have a problem with classic halo then you have a problem with halo.
> >
> > Ummm… No
>
> Be constructive.
> Um no is not a constructive response.

You know what? I genuinely don’t care. I do have problems with “Classic Halo”, some very major ones. Does that mean I have a problem with Halo as a whole? No. Hell, what is “Halo”, and what makes Halo, “Halo”.

> If you make a classic halo game again it will succeed.

No it won’t. The FPS market is completley different to when Halo was in it’s “Prime”. Know one wants an Arena Shooter these days, everything new Halo did are now standard AAA features. Hell, Halo has this feeling among general gamers that it is a little “backward”.

Halo was the CoD of it’s day - the FPS that showed the genre could survive on console and appeal to the casual audience. Then, IW created the ultimate casual FPS with CoD 4, and Halo’s main audience moved.

> If you make a classic halo game again it will succeed.
> Stop pushing this bad space age cod peice of Yoink!.
> Classic halo was balanced fun and fair.
> Where with halo 4 nobody can agree on anything and the population is deing faster then any halo game ever.
> You can’t just keep making excuses for why it doesn’t work it sucks that’s why it doesn’t work the numbers prove this.

Halo reach did well and that had a lot of the same features as halo 4. The thing is you probably hate cod so much that anything in halo that has even the smallest similarity would set you off. The loadouts didn’t even have a negative effect on gameplay. Are there armourablities in Cod? Because I can run the gameplay is ruined the game iOS a cod wannabe… The reason why halo 4 isn’t doing so well is because reach has more to offer in terms of game modes and forge, while all halo 4 had to offer was a lesser refined forge and less game modes that you play on halo 2 nothing more and I hate to break it to you halo 2 was broken you could climb up with spectre for crying out loud… At least on halo 2 people couldn’t call in a banshe air strike when they got a 7 killstreak or the map got hit with a mac blast when you got a 25 killstreak…

> Know one wants an Arena Shooter these days

I do. I hate class- and loadout-based shooters.

> > Know one wants an Arena Shooter these days
>
> I do. I hate class- and loadout-based shooters.

lol. I know there are people who wan’t Arena Shooters out there. But really, people like you are a very small minority of gamers these days. People wan’t thier ADS, Classes, -Yoinks!- of customization for just about everything, destruction etc.