To those who are opposed to Sprint

I’m posting this under the Gameplay topics, but it may well fit under Fiction also.

To everyone who is vehemently opposed to Sprint being in the game, I invite you to explain to me how a super soldier with body augmentation and the best, most highly advanced suit of force-multiplying armor that humanity can produce is unable to “run a little bit faster for a short period of time.”

I’ll reference this excerpt from the Halo Wiki, which references statistics found in the Halo books (official canon):

> Only a few months after augmentation procedures the SPARTAN-IIs were noted of being capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 kmh or 34.2 mph. Kelly-087 was capable of running even faster than this speed. Later during the Human-Covenant war while in her Mark V MJOLNIR Armor, Kelly-087s the top speed recorded was 62 kmh or 38.5 mph John-117 has been noted to have briefly ran at around 105 kmh or 65.2 mph during a MJOLNIR MARK V training exercise, however his Achilles tendon was torn because the strain put on his body was unsustainable.

Clearly, Sprinting is not outside of the capabilities of a Spartan.

There is a high level of dissonance introduced to the player when they are aware of exactly what a Spartan (II, III, IV, whatever) is, and is capable of, and then proceed to play a character that feels less capable than a standard marine, or at least an ODST - as we saw in Halo 3: ODST, with ODSTs clearly being easily capable of performing all of the tasks a Spartan performs within the context of the gameplay.

Halo 5 is the first game in the Halo franchise where I’ve actually felt like I’m controlling a super soldier with abilities that far exceed that of a normal marine, and I’ve played every single game in the franchise since Halo 1 on the original XBox.

I love the storyline, and I love the gameplay, but seriously people, it’s time for us to actually play as Spartans. Gameplay balance of Sprint can easily be maintained with proper map layouts, and I will definitely admit that maybe the current layouts aren’t the best, but thankfully we’ll have Forge to turn to if 343i is unable to make maps suitable for competitive play.

My $0.02 on the matter,
-Anubis

The problem with sprint isn’t that its not established in the canon. it’s that from a game play perspective, it breaks, and ruins the flow of combat within halo. it’s worse considering a pivotal thing about halo was it’s run AND gun game play, as apposed to being run OR gun.

Gameplay > lore in multiplayer, it’s just a bad excuse to have sprint in.

Hey Anubis, I’m brand new to these forums (this is literally my first post lol) but ive been constantly reading every post on here and lots on reddit as well. I am a level headed person who is “vehemently” opposed to sprint. My reasoning has nothing to do about Spartans 1,II, IV or anything. I just feel like it messes up how Halo is meant to feel.

I’ll admit sprint would improve a few things:

  • BTB- Campaign- Possible custom game ideas (the community can be so creative, in fact i clearly remember sprint maps on forge world meant to challenge players to run and jump their way down obstacles being chased by those giant insta kill fireballs you could make in Reach’s forge) However, for baseline matchmaking I think it really hurts Halo’s style of gameplay.

Bare with me, I’m sure I’ll get flamed for opposing sprint, but Halo has always been very slow paced, obviously very much about team shooting and teamwork in general. When shooting, its been about keeping ur reticle on ur opponent as long and consistently as possible.

Sprint itself isnt necessarily the problem but the side effects from needing to balance it do effect the game and make it less “halo-y”.

  • To combat sprint: Maps are much larger. When maps are larger then battles get further and farther between. Think about older halos: an average battle would encounter about 15 yards away or so. Now recall Reach and 4: Its common to be in a gun fight about 50 yards away. I painfully recall DMR “sniping” people during the 2 months i withstood halo 4.- Time-To-Kill (a new term to me, i always called it kill time but now its ttk): To also combat sprint, kill times are much much quicker now. As stated above shooting in halo is meant to be about steadily keeping ur reticle on ur guy (last shot the head). Halo 3 has the slowest kill times, the BRs fire rate felt slower in my opinion (especially compared to the DMR in reach and 4). But also 5 and 6 shot BR kills were always way more common than 4 shots. When the ttk is slower it means team shooting is more important! (obviously very important imo).- Escaping. Obviously this is mentioned all the time and pro-Sprint people seem to think its the same with or without sprint. But with sprint, escaping is wayyy easier and way more common. Someone posted a silly youtube link up here as proof. But all the proof i really need is for yall to use ur memory. Reach and 4 was so much more of a cat and mouse game than the older iterations.CONCLUSION:
    Yeah Halo 5 “needs” to be different, but sprint messes up the Halo formula. And btw No, not all AAA shooters in 2015 absolutely need sprint… At all…

Anyways you asked for a vehement anti sprint opinion and I gave mine, Id love to chat about it all with everyone, but yeah… Haha as long as it doesn’t become hostile.

> 2592250499813579;1:
> I’m posting this under the Gameplay topics, but it may well fit under Fiction also.
>
> To everyone who is vehemently opposed to Sprint being in the game, I invite you to explain to me how a super soldier with body augmentation and the best, most highly advanced suit of force-multiplying armor that humanity can produce is unable to “run a little bit faster for a short period of time.”
>
> I’ll reference this excerpt from the Halo Wiki, which references statistics found in the Halo books (official canon):
>
>
> > Only a few months after augmentation procedures the SPARTAN-IIs were noted of being capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 kmh or 34.2 mph. Kelly-087 was capable of running even faster than this speed. Later during the Human-Covenant war while in her Mark V MJOLNIR Armor, Kelly-087s the top speed recorded was 62 kmh or 38.5 mph John-117 has been noted to have briefly ran at around 105 kmh or 65.2 mph during a MJOLNIR MARK V training exercise, however his Achilles tendon was torn because the strain put on his body was unsustainable.
>
>
> Clearly, Sprinting is not outside of the capabilities of a Spartan.
>
> There is a high level of dissonance introduced to the player when they are aware of exactly what a Spartan (II, III, IV, whatever) is, and is capable of, and then proceed to play a character that feels less capable than a standard marine, or at least an ODST - as we saw in Halo 3: ODST, with ODSTs clearly being easily capable of performing all of the tasks a Spartan performs within the context of the gameplay.
>
> Halo 5 is the first game in the Halo franchise where I’ve actually felt like I’m controlling a super soldier with abilities that far exceed that of a normal marine, and I’ve played every single game in the franchise since Halo 1 on the original XBox.
>
> I love the storyline, and I love the gameplay, but seriously people, it’s time for us to actually play as Spartans. Gameplay balance of Sprint can easily be maintained with proper map layouts, and I will definitely admit that maybe the current layouts aren’t the best, but thankfully we’ll have Forge to turn to if 343i is unable to make maps suitable for competitive play.
>
> My $0.02 on the matter,
> -Anubis

first of all, fiction and non fiction should never be the de facto reasoning for gameplay makeup, unless you play a try hard reality sim like arma.

secondly, by the logic, spartans should be able to move in all directions super fast (increased player base speed) and therefore it makes no sense they move so slow without sprint compared to older halos.

so the soloution to your lore/gameplay problem is increase base speed, remove sprint, and everyone will be happy. a fast paced halo game where you move much faster, constantly, ground pound and dash, clamber, etc etc. no negatives to lore or gameplay

Even if were going to say that realism should overshadow gameplay(which it shouldnt) realistically speaking a supersoldier spartan should be able to move at top speed in all directions at all times while shooting. Which is what we did have before sprint.

While we’re at it, spartans should also be able to realistically do all of the following :

  • Basically have aimbots because of their hud integrations with their suits.- Carry a flag while driving a vehicle.- Carry an oddball while driving a vehicle.- Shoot guns while driving a vehicle.- Climb out of any map.- Not be constrained by invisible walls.- Not die from being outside of a map.- Basically dual wield any weapons.- Throw other spartans across maps.- Throw flags from enemy bases to teammates.- Hand each other weapons.- Set traps for enemies using explosives.- Punch and kick.- Tell jokes.- Smoke cigars.- Choose to not fight and flee.- Basically anything that a fictional badass can do in reality!
    Does that sound like a fun multiplayer game? 343, get on it!

> 2535448600499399;4:
> Hey Anubis, I’m brand new to these forums (this is literally my first post lol) but ive been constantly reading every post on here and lots on reddit as well. I am a level headed person who is “vehemently” opposed to sprint. My reasoning has nothing to do about Spartans 1,II, IV or anything. I just feel like it messes up how Halo is meant to feel.
>
> I’ll admit sprint would improve a few things:
> - BTB
> - Campaign
> - Possible custom game ideas (the community can be so creative, in fact i clearly remember sprint maps on forge world meant to challenge players to run and jump their way down obstacles being chased by those giant insta kill fireballs you could make in Reach’s forge)
> However, for baseline matchmaking I think it really hurts Halo’s style of gameplay.
>
> Bare with me, I’m sure I’ll get flamed for opposing sprint, but Halo has always been very slow paced, obviously very much about team shooting and teamwork in general. When shooting, its been about keeping ur reticle on ur opponent as long and consistently as possible.
>
> Sprint itself isnt necessarily the problem but the side effects from needing to balance it do effect the game and make it less “halo-y”.
>
> - To combat sprint: Maps are much larger. When maps are larger then battles get further and farther between. Think about older halos: an average battle would encounter about 15 yards away or so. Now recall Reach and 4: Its common to be in a gun fight about 50 yards away. I painfully recall DMR “sniping” people during the 2 months i withstood halo 4.
> - Time-To-Kill (a new term to me, i always called it kill time but now its ttk): To also combat sprint, kill times are much much quicker now. As stated above shooting in halo is meant to be about steadily keeping ur reticle on ur guy (last shot the head). Halo 3 has the slowest kill times, the BRs fire rate felt slower in my opinion (especially compared to the DMR in reach and 4). But also 5 and 6 shot BR kills were always way more common than 4 shots. When the ttk is slower it means team shooting is more important! (obviously very important imo).
> - Escaping. Obviously this is mentioned all the time and pro-Sprint people seem to think its the same with or without sprint. But with sprint, escaping is wayyy easier and way more common. Someone posted a silly youtube link up here as proof. But all the proof i really need is for yall to use ur memory. Reach and 4 was so much more of a cat and mouse game than the older iterations.
> CONCLUSION:
> Yeah Halo 5 “needs” to be different, but sprint messes up the Halo formula. And btw No, not all AAA shooters in 2015 absolutely need sprint… At all…
>
> Anyways you asked for a vehement anti sprint opinion and I gave mine, Id love to chat about it all with everyone, but yeah… Haha as long as it doesn’t become hostile.

Thank you for listing well-thought-out reasons and decent arguments without turning this into a bias-ridden flamewar.

1.) I agree here completely. One of the most egregious instances of this that I noticed was the extreme distance between the two “towers” of Truth, the “new Midship” map.

2.) From the very first game of the beta, I noticed and made mention (to all of my friends, at least) that it seemed like people died quite a bit too fast in this Halo. I’m not 100% certain that this is fully attributable to the inclusion of sprint, but I wouldn’t try to debate that sprint doesn’t have an effect here. To be honest, I think nearly all weapons should have their fire rate reduced to increase the TTK just a little bit.

3.) As far as escaping is concerned, yes it’s annoying but honestly that’s a really poor reason to be opposed to sprint, in my opinion. Without sprint, people’s shields would recharge faster as they ran, and with the thrust pack it wouldn’t be terribly difficult to dart into cover almost just as quickly (in fact, I use the thrust pack to escape far more often than I use sprint). The same argument could be levied against crouch jumping in previous Halo games, a mechanic that opponents of sprint would undoubtedly defend to the death as a core element of Halo gameplay, but also has likely “robbed the kill” from many a pursuing attacker (I know it’s saved me plenty of times).

However, I have noticed from a gameplay balance perspective, DMRs and BRs don’t seem to be nearly as effective at killing an opponent as an AR or SMG directly due to sprint. Someone out in the open is easily likely to receive 2 or 3 BR shots, or 3 to 4 DMR shots, but getting that final hit more often than not requires team effort. This is one area where sprint has opened up the possibility for people to roam about in the wide open, carefree and largely safe from sharpshooters picking them off.

I’ll further expand that point into saying that the removal of sprint would introduce other balance issues. In previous Halo games, the sniper rifle in the hands of even a semi-competent user meant the death of many before he either ran out of ammo or was rushed. In Halo 5, the sniper is great and can still be used to great effect in the hands of a skilled user, but the inclusion of sprint further balances the weapon by making it require more skill to nail that headshot on a target that is not necessarily moving at a constant speed.


What I will say, in conclusion to this reply, is that it is highly unlikely that sprint will be removed. It was in Reach, people complained. It was in Halo 4, people complained. It shows up in Halo 5 and hey, people are complaining. At this point, it seems like it’s here to stay. There was another guy on these forums that made a very good point to the same effect and I will echo him here (I think his name was C 0 5 M 1 C or something similar) - since it isn’t going to be removed, let’s have a more productive discussion and come up with an innovative way to make sprint into something both sides can agree on. I hate the way it’s a carbon copy of CoD sprint, surely there is a more innovative way that 343i can implement this functionality such that both sides can be satisfied with it?

Also, BUS DR1V3R, quit being a child please. Many of your points you listed are correct, Spartans should definitely be able to do those things and I would not be opposed to them being included in the game (honestly, getting outside of the map on Halo 2 with friends was one of the most fun passtimes I’ve had on XBox Live), but your post largely devolved into the realm of being immature.

> 2533274794673678;7:
> While we’re at it, spartans should also be able to realistically do all of the following :
> - Basically have aimbots because of their hud integrations with their suits.
> - Carry a flag while driving a vehicle.
> - Carry an oddball while driving a vehicle.
> - Shoot guns while driving a vehicle.
> - Climb out of any map.
> - Not be constrained by invisible walls.
> - Not die from being outside of a map.
> - Basically dual wield any weapons.
> - Throw other spartans across maps.
> - Throw flags from enemy bases to teammates.
> - Hand each other weapons.
> - Set traps for enemies using explosives.
> - Punch and kick.
> - Tell jokes.
> - Smoke cigars.
> - Choose to not fight and flee.
> - Basically anything that a fictional badass can do in reality!Does that sound like a fun multiplayer game? 343, get on it!

I believe the solution to sprint is rather simple. It should behave like a sprint, your over all horizontal maneuverability should be severely limited. Most people when sprinting can only turn in wide arcs, and turning sharply is near impossible even for a super soldier, it is simple physics. Sprint should function in a few simple steps.

  • One you sprint shields do not recharge, this is a good feature keep it in.- Once you start sprinting your ability to aim and shoot is taken away.- You can move fast in a straight line, your ability to turn is limited to wide arc/slow turns.- Strafing is impossible as your forward momentum prevents you from doing so.

These changes would make sprint a valuable map crossing mechanic, vehicle evasion mechanic, and bugging out mechanic. However, it would not be advisable to perform if the enemy has a bead on you, or there is not a clear path far enough to make changes before slamming into a wall.

> 2533274793867365;9:
> I believe the solution to sprint is rather simple. It should behave like a sprint, your over all horizontal maneuverability should be severely limited. Most people when sprinting can only turn in wide arcs, and turning sharply is near impossible even for a super soldier, it is simple physics. Sprint should function in a few simple steps.
>
> - One you sprint shields do not recharge, this is a good feature keep it in.
> - Once you start sprinting your ability to aim and shoot is taken away.
> - You can move fast in a straight line, your ability to turn is limited to wide arc/slow turns.
> - Strafing is impossible as your forward momentum prevents you from doing so.
> These changes would make sprint a valuable map crossing mechanic, vehicle evasion mechanic, and bugging out mechanic. However, it would not be advisable to perform if the enemy has a bead on you, or there is not a clear path far enough to make changes before slamming into a wall.

Agreed, would contribute to realism while making sprint more balanced.

Another thing is, when you run full speed into a wall, it is going to stun you for a brief moment. I like that the shoulder charge mechanic does this to you, but I feel that if you hit a wall while sprinting it should:
1.) Knock you out of sprint immediately, forcing you to re-engage it
and
2.) Stun/slow you for just a very brief moment, as you just faceplanted a wall/corner and need to regain your bearings (maybe 1/2 or 1/3 the time of the shoulder charge stun effect)

This would make sprinting while under fire a much riskier choice unless you had a clear target you were sprinting for, as “panic sprinting” would likely get you killed when you run straight into a corner.

> 2533274794052092;2:
> The problem with sprint isn’t that its not established in the canon. it’s that from a game play perspective, it breaks, and ruins the flow of combat within halo. it’s worse considering a pivotal thing about halo was it’s run AND gun game play, as apposed to being run OR gun.

Your run and gun still works… Just cause they added sprint doesnt mean you cant spend the game not sprinting at all. Sprint allows for better mobility, and escaping or getting to the fight faster. Im stil strafing left and right to finish a kill, but it helps that after im done killing someone, i can run to help an ally somewhere else

> 2592250499813579;10:
> > 2533274793867365;9:
> > I believe the solution to sprint is rather simple. It should behave like a sprint, your over all horizontal maneuverability should be severely limited. Most people when sprinting can only turn in wide arcs, and turning sharply is near impossible even for a super soldier, it is simple physics. Sprint should function in a few simple steps.
> >
> > - One you sprint shields do not recharge, this is a good feature keep it in.
> > - Once you start sprinting your ability to aim and shoot is taken away.
> > - You can move fast in a straight line, your ability to turn is limited to wide arc/slow turns.
> > - Strafing is impossible as your forward momentum prevents you from doing so.
> > These changes would make sprint a valuable map crossing mechanic, vehicle evasion mechanic, and bugging out mechanic. However, it would not be advisable to perform if the enemy has a bead on you, or there is not a clear path far enough to make changes before slamming into a wall.
>
>
> Agreed, would contribute to realism while making sprint more balanced.
>
> Another thing is, when you run full speed into a wall, it is going to stun you for a brief moment. I like that the shoulder charge mechanic does this to you, but I feel that if you hit a wall while sprinting it should:
> 1.) Knock you out of sprint immediately, forcing you to re-engage it
> and
> 2.) Stun/slow you for just a very brief moment, as you just faceplanted a wall/corner and need to regain your bearings (maybe 1/2 or 1/3 the time of the shoulder charge stun effect)
>
> This would make sprinting while under fire a much riskier choice unless you had a clear target you were sprinting for, as “panic sprinting” would likely get you killed when you run straight into a corner.

I think both of these combined would make sprint dynamic. If 343 is reading this, I think this should be a happy medium to make sprint like this.

> 2533274793867365;12:
> I think both of these combined would make sprint dynamic. If 343 is reading this, I think this should be a happy medium to make sprint like this.

Alright, so now I’ve gotta know, what does the hardcore anti-sprint crowd say about this?

This is about game mechanics. WTF does any of that have to do with it?

> 2533274797884886;14:
> This is about game mechanics. WTF does any of that have to do with it?

Please read the rest of the bloody posts before responding with a clearly ignorant response.

Bumping this post because I keep seeing a lot of really limited suggestions for balancing sprint. This needs to be seen.