To Save Halo 4, We Must End Halo 2.

Games Other Halo
1

In the most general way to summarize this post, we need to minimize the opinions of hardcore fans from the Halo 2 era, and focus more on what will make Halo 4 a modern game with modern characteristics that the community is truly looking for in a warfare game.

Everyone has heard of the term “Halo 2.5” which is simply describing a Halo game that will be created to pretty much be just like Halo 2, and succumb to the will of the Halo 2 fans. Of course, such a perspective on how Halo should be created is not collectively shared amongst the Halo community. Now there’s one thing that is really impeding on the progress of the Halo series:

Nostalgia.

Yes. Nostalgia. That feeling of missing the past. Halo 2 was probably a big moment for most hardcore gamers out there. Many gamers first experience with online/competitive gaming was in Halo 2. It was something you grew up with, and it was something that allowed you to have fun. This is where the problem lies.

For example. My friends and I listening to several bands including A Day To Remember, Parkway Drive, etc… all of which have several albums from different years. For me, I started listening to A Day To Remember when they released Homesick, and therefore, my love for them grew with that album. Due to such love for that album, any progress after that was never seen being better. My friends as well. They found Parkway Drive during Horizons, and I found it during Killing with a Smile. Anything after those albums were looked as not being as good as the original.

Okay, back on topic, ladies and gentlemen.

See how that relates to Halo? We grew to love Halo 2, and our development in gaming was structured around Halo 2, and how we played it growing up. Now we are faced with new Halo games that follow, and with each game, we see it as “not as good”. Is this true? No. Are we reminiscing over the past and irrationally comparing every Halo game to Halo 2 and judging it based on that? Yes.

To save Halo 4, we must clear our mind, and any pre-conceived ideas of this idealistic Halo 2 that we have created. Halo is growing, and advancing, and as a community, we are destroying the growth of its potential by holding it back in the past. In order for Halo to evolve, we must evolve as a community and accept that Halo 4 will offer new and different characteristics from every other Halo game.

Tl;dr - Out with old, in with the new. Discuss.

2

I made a thread saying on all the Halo games are great. This is nearly what I was saying in a way.

I agree 100%, Halo 2 seemed like the perfect game because it was when MOST OF US had our first taste of Xboxlive, Competitive gaming and so on. Or even so our first great console online game.

Yet do people not forget how much rage and frustration came with halo 2. I said it in another thread how I would love to play Halo2 online again, however people need to stop acting like Halo2(OR ANY HALO GAME) is perfect and should be a role model for the rest.

The nostalgic part is 100% right, I miss Halo 2 for sure, Got it today and was hit with sadness, happiness and nostalgia. However I’m not going to pick up Halo3 or Reach and bash it because it cant reach that level of memory. Sometimes games take time for you to realize how good they were. Halo 3 itself is starting to give me feelings of nostolgia I would never have felt when it came out.

AS I said before all Halo games have a core, spirit and general feeling that are alike, but each game is differrent and unique, let them be, stop wanting Halo1,2,3,odst,Reach again and want new. As long as it’s got the Halo soul then let it be, Halo 4 needs to be new, and better, not a way of you getting back a feeling of memory.

AND YOU WILL NEVER GET A GAME TO FEEL LIKE HALO(x) BECAUSE THAT FEELING IS NOSTALGIA, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A FAVORITE HALO GAME NOTHING 343/BUNGIE CAN DO WILL EVER MAKE A GAME TO MAKE YOU FEEL THE SAME. HELL EVEN HALO:cea WONT FEEL THE SAME.

3

Good attempt at an analogy, but not really as relevant as you might hope. Take me for instance, I listen to Dream Theater. Yet I think their newer music has shown real progress throughout the years, and their latest album is easily one of the best they’ve ever written, even though one of the first albums I ever listened to by them, was one of their first.

So to sit there and say, “People are just nostalgic about Halo 2, that’s why they want that game back” is a gross misunderstanding as to why people actually want that game back. Don’t get me wrong, Halo 2 wasn’t a perfect game, Halo 3 and Reach have brought about changes that would have been awesome to have back in the days of Halo 2. But people liked the way Halo 2 flowed overall. It was a much faster paced game than Reach or Halo 3. Nostalgia really has nothing to do with it. From day one of Halo 3, I still liked Halo 2 better, and I didn’t even like Reach as much as I liked Halo 3. While Bungie brought new features to each game (some good, some awful), they also kept making changes to the core aspect of the game itself and how it flowed, that unfortunately, were not for the better.

4

Well, at least one thing is a matter of fact, the skill gap of Halo has been steadily decreasing since 2004. Tne people who loved Halo 2 do have a valid reason to want Halo 4 more like Halo 2, it undoubtly had the best balance between competitive and casual gameplay. Something that also made Halo 2 fun was the amount of glitches, something that hasn’t since then been in any other Halo.

So while nostalgia plays some part, Halo 2 still was great game and for most people more fun game than any of the other Halo games.

Only thing I want is Halo to evolve, but keep true to it’s core. The game can’t succeed at this if we just let the developers do anything they want. Halo CE and 2 unarguably had the most skillful gameplay’s of all Halo games. Most people also share the opinion that Halo 2 was the most fun game in the series.

This is why the core gameplay elements should be taken from these games and every innovation and new feature should be built around those elements. Trying to change the core gameplay of Halo is like inventing a square shaped wheel, sure it’s innovative, but not as good as the original.

> Good attempt at an analogy, but not really as relevant as you might hope. Take me for instance, I listen to Dream Theater. Yet I think their newer music has shown real progress throughout the years, and their latest album is easily one of the best they’ve ever written, even though one of the first albums I ever listened to by them, was one of their first.
>
> So to sit there and say, “People are just nostalgic about Halo 2, that’s why they want that game back” is a gross misunderstanding as to why people actually want that game back. Don’t get me wrong, Halo 2 wasn’t a perfect game, Halo 3 and Reach have brought about changes that would have been awesome to have back in the days of Halo 2. <mark>But people liked the way Halo 2 flowed overall.</mark> It was a much faster paced game than Reach or Halo 3. Nostalgia really has nothing to do with it. From day one of Halo 3, I still liked Halo 2 better, and I didn’t even like Reach as much as I liked Halo 3. While Bungie brought new features to each game (some good, some awful), they also kept making changes to the core aspect of the game itself and how it flowed, that unfortunately, were not for the better.

That’s undoubtely the reason that made Halo 2 so magnificent. The gameplay flow felt perfect. That’s the thing I love most about Halo 2.

5

> In the most general way to summarize this post, we need to minimize the opinions of hardcore fans from the Halo 2 era, and focus more on what will make Halo 4 a modern game with modern characteristics that the community is truly looking for in a warfare game.
>
> Everyone has heard of the term “Halo 2.5” which is simply describing a Halo game that will be created to pretty much be just like Halo 2, and succumb to the will of the Halo 2 fans. Of course, such a perspective on how Halo should be created is not collectively shared amongst the Halo community. Now there’s one thing that is really impeding on the progress of the Halo series:
>
> Nostalgia.
>
> Yes. Nostalgia. That feeling of missing the past. Halo 2 was probably a big moment for most hardcore gamers out there. Many gamers first experience with online/competitive gaming was in Halo 2. It was something you grew up with, and it was something that allowed you to have fun. This is where the problem lies.
>
> For example. My friends and I listening to several bands including A Day To Remember, Parkway Drive, etc… all of which have several albums from different years. For me, I started listening to A Day To Remember when they released Homesick, and therefore, my love for them grew with that album. Due to such love for that album, any progress after that was never seen being better. My friends as well. They found Parkway Drive during Horizons, and I found it during Killing with a Smile. Anything after those albums were looked as not being as good as the original.
>
> Okay, back on topic, ladies and gentlemen.
>
> See how that relates to Halo? We grew to love Halo 2, and our development in gaming was structured around Halo 2, and how we played it growing up. Now we are faced with new Halo games that follow, and with each game, we see it as “not as good”. Is this true? No. Are we reminiscing over the past and irrationally comparing every Halo game to Halo 2 and judging it based on that? Yes.
>
> To save Halo 4, we must clear our mind, and any pre-conceived ideas of this idealistic Halo 2 that we have created. Halo is growing, and advancing, and as a community, we are destroying the growth of its potential by holding it back in the past. In order for Halo to evolve, we must evolve as a community and accept that Halo 4 will offer new and different characteristics from every other Halo game.
>
> Tl;dr - Out with old, in with the new. Discuss.

Edited by the moderator - Please do not attack other members.

Halo 2 was, scratch that…is still, by far the best ever multiplayer FPS ever created. PERIOD.

6

> Halo 2 was, scratch that…is still, by far the best ever multiplayer FPS ever created. PERIOD.

He’s not saying Halo 2 was bad. I agree, Halo 2 transcends most games released after it, but that’s the problem. In order to make a new, awesome game we need to suspend the old from our minds because if we DON’T, no matter what 343/Bungie makes, we will never accept them as “good enough”.

That doesn’t make him a troll. Lrn2read

7

> > In the most general way to summarize this post, we need to minimize the opinions of hardcore fans from the Halo 2 era, and focus more on what will make Halo 4 a modern game with modern characteristics that the community is truly looking for in a warfare game.
> >
> > Everyone has heard of the term “Halo 2.5” which is simply describing a Halo game that will be created to pretty much be just like Halo 2, and succumb to the will of the Halo 2 fans. Of course, such a perspective on how Halo should be created is not collectively shared amongst the Halo community. Now there’s one thing that is really impeding on the progress of the Halo series:
> >
> > Nostalgia.
> >
> > Yes. Nostalgia. That feeling of missing the past. Halo 2 was probably a big moment for most hardcore gamers out there. Many gamers first experience with online/competitive gaming was in Halo 2. It was something you grew up with, and it was something that allowed you to have fun. This is where the problem lies.
> >
> > For example. My friends and I listening to several bands including A Day To Remember, Parkway Drive, etc… all of which have several albums from different years. For me, I started listening to A Day To Remember when they released Homesick, and therefore, my love for them grew with that album. Due to such love for that album, any progress after that was never seen being better. My friends as well. They found Parkway Drive during Horizons, and I found it during Killing with a Smile. Anything after those albums were looked as not being as good as the original.
> >
> > Okay, back on topic, ladies and gentlemen.
> >
> > See how that relates to Halo? We grew to love Halo 2, and our development in gaming was structured around Halo 2, and how we played it growing up. Now we are faced with new Halo games that follow, and with each game, we see it as “not as good”. Is this true? No. Are we reminiscing over the past and irrationally comparing every Halo game to Halo 2 and judging it based on that? Yes.
> >
> > To save Halo 4, we must clear our mind, and any pre-conceived ideas of this idealistic Halo 2 that we have created. Halo is growing, and advancing, and as a community, we are destroying the growth of its potential by holding it back in the past. In order for Halo to evolve, we must evolve as a community and accept that Halo 4 will offer new and different characteristics from every other Halo game.
> >
> > Tl;dr - Out with old, in with the new. Discuss.
>
> Halo 2 was, scratch that…is still, by far the best ever multiplayer FPS ever created. PERIOD.

Ghost Recon and Ghost Recon Island thunder are the best ever multiplayer FPS ever created.

Guess what that means? It’s all opinion.

8

You are amazing, the only way Halo 4 can feel like a awesome, new experience that Halo 2 was, is if they re-invited it.

9

your definition is halo 1.5 Anniversary

10

Yay for ADTR :stuck_out_tongue:

11

That would reduce a huge chunk of the halo fanbase.

12

I agree with the OP, we need to stop measuring new Halo games up to the last one/Halo 2. So I welcome this new chapter of the Halo universe without any references/comparisons to that game.

13

> Out with old, in with the new.
[/quote]
Yesss.

14

If CE had Live capabilities, we wouldn’t ever bring up that abomination of a game Halo 2. It was fun because you were playing a shooter on the Xbox against real people without having to bring over more TV’s, consoles, controllers and games. Apart from that, it had nothing going for it.

Halo 4 should be something new, and I hope to god that 343 takes suggestions from the community with a pound of salt. When your up against beasts like CoD, BF and Gears, you gotta bring it hard, not go back to a subpar, broken game which is only remembered because it was the first to have online play.

15

> If CE had Live capabilities, we wouldn’t ever bring up that abomination of a game Halo 2. It was fun because you were playing a shooter on the Xbox against real people without having to bring over more TV’s, consoles, controllers and games. Apart from that, it had nothing going for it.
>
> Halo 4 should be something new, and I hope to god that 343 takes suggestions from the community with a pound of salt. When your up against beasts like CoD, BF and Gears, you gotta bring it hard, not go back to a subpar, broken game which is only remembered because it was the first to have online play.

Talking like that about Halo 2 really shows that you personally seem to ahve not played the game or just have some very personal reason to hate it. Anyway, there is no arguing that it was a phenomenal game compared to what came afterwards.

Sure, the game had some glitches, but most of them were fun, even super jumps outside of matchmaking. I don’t mean for 343i to intentionally start makign glitches, but if they ever by the time of development find a glitch that isn’t game breaking and has potential to be fun, let it be, the players will just be happy to find it and the game will get more replay value.

Aside from few of the glitches and the bit exaggerated amount of bullet magnetism, the gameplay was absolutely amazing. And glitches such as button combos only gave more value to the gameplay.

Halo 2 is as far from subpar as can be. It’s truly one of the most amazing console FPS games ever made.

16

Halo 4 CAN BE A WIN IF it is kept simple, accurate, solid, and interesting.

It can have NEW accurate and useful weapons/vehicles, a great story, excellent graphics and gameplay, excellent NET CODE and SKILL LEVELS.

The vehicles and player mechanics can be TRUE TO ‘original Halo’ while still offering ‘new’ material.

IT CANNOT BE GLITCHY LIKE REACH.

Reach’s glitchiness comes from LOADOUTS and AA’s. These MUST DISSAPPEAR.

17

Perhaps it went completely over my head…but where is anyone’s argument stating that in order to “Save Halo 4” “We Must End Halo 2.” Perhaps I’m completely missing it and it’s staring me right in the face, but I just don’t see it.

18

This “out with the old in the new” philosophy was probably something similar Bungie were thinking when they made Reach. They took aspects from CE and then made some crazy completely different design decisions not seen in a Halo game.

Look at the result. Not pretty.

The reason us Halo 2 fans want to see Halo 4 return to Halo 2’s type of gameplay is because it simply was the best Halo game for MP. Nostalgia doesn’t even come into it. It was fast, fluid and fun. What series now takes those three elements and is so successful? CoD. Halo lost it way when Halo 3 was released. It’s progressively got slower in movement, kill times have gotten slower and it’s got features that it never needed, think equipment, AA’s, bloom. The word bloated comes to mind.

We just want to return to the fast paced, simple, but complex, easy to play, yet hard to master, casual and competitive game that was Halo 2.

Because when it comes to the balance of all of those things Halo 2 did it the best. It was a game that any type of FPS player could enjoy.

19

> This “out with the old in the new” philosophy was probably something similar Bungie were thinking when they made Reach. They took aspects from CE and then made some crazy completely different design decisions not seen in a Halo game.
>
> Look at the result. Not pretty.
>
> The reason us Halo 2 fans want to see Halo 4 return to Halo 2’s type of gameplay is because it simply was the best Halo game for MP. Nostalgia doesn’t even come into it. It was fast, fluid and fun. What series now takes those three elements and is so successful? CoD. Halo lost it way when Halo 3 was released. It’s progressively got slower in movement, kill times have gotten slower and it’s got features that it never needed, think equipment, AA’s, bloom. The word bloated comes to mind.
>
> We just want to return to the fast paced, simple, but complex, easy to play, yet hard to master, casual and competitive game that was Halo 2.
>
> Because when it comes to the balance of all of those things Halo 2 did it the best. It was a game that any type of FPS player could enjoy.

True, I did enjoy the campaign and versus modes however, I never got the chance to play online :frowning: So from what I’ve heard about it I would like to return to it, or possibly have a similar taste of it…NOT Halo 3’s system or Reach! Please for the Love of Halo Don’t use Halo 3 or Reach’s System!

20

> Talking like that about Halo 2 really shows that you personally seem to ahve not played the game or just have some very personal reason to hate it. Anyway, there is no arguing that it was a phenomenal game compared to what came afterwards.

Edited by the moderator - Please do not attack other members.

Halo 2 was a major disappointment to a legion of CE fans. It was not even half the game CE was, and it’s ONLY claim to fame was Live. It’s probably how H2 kids responded to H3, but the difference between CE and 2 is much greater than 2 and 3.

Stop accepting mediocrity into gaming. Halo 2 had absolutely no competition on Live. Now days we are competing with gaming giants, who know what the online community wants. Bringing out a Halo 2.5 would just be a nail in the coffin.