I propose that 343i set up a rating system exactly like halo 3s, but where you must complete all specializations before being able to start the ranking system, everything before that would be “social” instead of ranked. This would give players enough time to get used to all the maps, get used to laying the game if they are new so as not to ruin the possibility ranking up in the future due to bad records, and give people a time investment that they are less likely to give up by cheating. Most cheaters use new accounts, and this is because they realize it takes zero time to get a new account capable of cheating a skill system, but if they were risking months worth of effort in an exp system they would be less likely to ruin it by getting banned. The people at 130 need an incentive besides commendations and “just playing” because this game needs competition. You need to feel like you are achieving something which is why halo 2 and halo 3 were such a success, besides the obvious lack of halo reach elements that they decided to keep for halo 4.
Just FYI but only one post allowed.
I think you underestimate just how much time it takes to get to 130. Its quite a chore for those that don’t have hours upon hours of free time a day to reach that mark.
And it really doesn’t address why H3’s system failed and why it will no longer return.
“And it really doesn’t address why H3’s system failed and why it will no longer return.”
Why then?
> “And it really doesn’t address why H3’s system failed and why it will no longer return.”
>
> Why then?
Why then what? Why doesn’t it address the H3 system failures?
Because it would still reveal an underlying game mechanic that doesn’t have a reason to be exposed. Expose the mechanic, invite abuse. Its a nice idea to show it, but it was waaaay too open to abuse, abuse that the game’s makers don’t care to invite.
abuse that wont happen because they’ve invested a bunch of time into getting to 130. They don’t want to get banned.
> abuse that wont happen because they’ve invested a bunch of time into getting to 130. They don’t want to get banned.
You’re assuming a lot of things about player mentality. Investing time does not equate to a player being attached to an account. And getting new accounts is not a bannable offense.
I don’t see how this even prevents cheating?
There is a very, very easy way to fix this…
Make a 1-50 ranking system exactly like Halo 2. Bad players didn’t play against good. Good played against good, etc.
Sure people will cheat, but that can’t be fixed, it’ll always happen.
If you want a skill system to function correctly, Halo 2’s was perfect. I was between a 35-40 and the games were always very competitive. You didn’t make it past 30 if you weren’t at least good, and 35-40 you had to good team work. Anything legit beyond 40 was a badass.
> There is a very, very easy way to fix this…
>
> Make a 1-50 ranking system exactly like Halo 2. Bad players didn’t play against good. Good played against good, etc.
>
> Sure people will cheat, but that can’t be fixed, it’ll always happen.
>
> If you want a skill system to function correctly, Halo 2’s was perfect. I was between a 35-40 and the games were always very competitive. You didn’t make it past 30 if you weren’t at least good, and 35-40 you had to good team work. Anything legit beyond 40 was a badass.
Sure, the game’s were terrible, everyone cheated beyond a certain point, but at least only cool people could get to 35! Let’s use that system.
There’s a reason H2’s system was killed off, just like H3’s system was killed off. And its not some unjust indictment on anything resembling competition.
I think it’s a great idea. Maybe not at SR130 (perhaps SR70 or so) but I do see the logic in the way it diverts cheaters who just make an account to boost CSR. This would require them to gain SR70 before they can boost their account and I doubt anyone would spend the time doing that.
> I think it’s a great idea. Maybe not at SR130 (perhaps SR70 or so) but I do see the logic in the way it diverts cheaters who just make an account to boost CSR. This would require them to gain SR70 before they can boost their account and I doubt anyone would spend the time doing that.
I agree. This wouldn’t stop cheating 100%, but it would limit it quite a bit.
The problem we might run into though is derankers. In Halo 3, deranking was a huge problem. I think people should be booted if they’re idle in a game for more than a minute, and repeat offenders should get a ban.
> Sure, the game’s were terrible, everyone cheated beyond a certain point, but at least only cool people could get to 35! Let’s use that system.
>
> There’s a reason H2’s system was killed off, just like H3’s system was killed off. And its not some unjust indictment on anything resembling competition.
Can you please explain your reasoning for you answer?
There wasn’t a single game after the first month of gaming when I played against teams I shouldn’t have played against. You reach a level by being good, period. Sure, again you can cheat but people cheat in Halo 4.
The only reason Halo 2’s system was killed off was to appeal to the masses because those that got stuck at 20 left they weren’t getting anything out of the game anymore. Sorry, you’re a 20, you should play against similar skill. That’s what the -Yoinking!- system did!
Find anyone that made it above a 30 in Halo 2 and have them tell me the ranking system didn’t work. Sure, cheaters will cheat, but when I played a legit game, it was a closely matched game, you didn’t have guys going 20-0, etc. because 2 guys were in the game that had no reason playing the other guys.
This happens all the -Yoinking!- time in Halo 4, the game starts and I look at the other team and thin, WTF? Really? Why would it put me against 3 guests, are they trying to make people want to quit this game?
> Can you please explain your reasoning for you answer?
>
> There wasn’t a single game after the first month of gaming when I played against teams I shouldn’t have played against. You reach a level by being good, period. Sure, again you can cheat but people cheat in Halo 4.
>
> The only reason Halo 2’s system was killed off was to appeal to the masses because those that got stuck at 20 left they weren’t getting anything out of the game anymore. Sorry, you’re a 20, you should play against similar skill. That’s what the -Yoinking!- system did!
>
> Find anyone that made it above a 30 in Halo 2 and have them tell me the ranking system didn’t work. Sure, cheaters will cheat, but when I played a legit game, it was a closely matched game, you didn’t have guys going 20-0, etc. because 2 guys were in the game that had no reason playing the other guys.
>
> This happens all the -Yoinking!- time in Halo 4, the game starts and I look at the other team and thin, WTF? Really? Why would it put me against 3 guests, are they trying to make people want to quit this game?
You seem a little confused. Thank you, H3 ranking system.
There are two mechanics: the Trueskill system used to match players, and the visible ranking system. Despite H3 tying the two functions at the hip, they’re seperate functions. Regardless of the visible ranking system at use, you getting matched with three guests is simply a function of the parameters given the Trueskill system to find you a match. Your match quality is ENTIRELY unaffected by whatever visible ranking system is in play.
Second, the H2 system was flawed because of the illusion of a “hill-climbing” experience, and the ends that promoted for cheating. H2, past a certain rank (as you can likely attest to) was full of the fantastic host-bridging problems and various other means players sought to reach their desired ranking ends. Its a system that disenfranchised a lot of players. You may think its awesome that only the super cool can get past the mid-way rank, but when a majority of players can’t even get to the half-way mark of a system, its stupid.
343 just need to hire some programming or network gurus and solve the cheating problem by preventing it and banning cheaters. The whole attitude of “people will try to cheat, so let’s not even bother offering a ranked mode” isn’t the kind of attitude a developer should have, especially with a franchise like Halo, which should always strive to go above and beyond and be a leader in the industry. I know that it’s impossible to prevent cheating 100%, but in a big budget game like Halo, you would expect that cheating could be minimized enough that having a ranked playlist is actually viable.
I think you should be able to just get ranked straight away, not everyone has enough free time to get to SR130 full stop much less get there quickly. If there has to be a minimum level make it SR50.
> Second, the H2 system was flawed because of the illusion of a “hill-climbing” experience, and the ends that promoted for cheating. H2, past a certain rank (as you can likely attest to) was full of the fantastic host-bridging problems and various other means players sought to reach their desired ranking ends. Its a system that disenfranchised a lot of players. You may think its awesome that only the super cool can get past the mid-way rank, but when a majority of players can’t even get to the half-way mark of a system, its stupid.
No you are the confused one.
I got to level 35, I played against people that were at MY SKILL LEVEL.
If you idled at level 10, 20, or whatever, you played YOUR SKILL LEVEL.
That is what a true-skill system is, you play at your ability. The goal of a game shouldn’t be to reach a rank, etc. It should be to maintain a level playing field. H2 was the only game that has done that in the Halo world. Halo 3 was a freaking joke to get to level 50.
Do I honestly think I should have ever been able to reach 50, NO. If the highest rank is 50, I don’t think I should be able to reach it add is should be for the top 10% and that’s not a place I feel I fit. I would say I am in the top 20% but still, a number means -Yoink- to me. So stop using that in your description, that true-rank VISIBLE rank in H2 created the best matches in Halo, period.
> No you are the confused one.
>
> I got to level 35, I played against people that were at MY SKILL LEVEL.
>
> If you idled at level 10, 20, or whatever, you played YOUR SKILL LEVEL.
>
> That is what a true-skill system is, you play at your ability. The goal of a game shouldn’t be to reach a rank, etc. It should be to maintain a level playing field. H2 was the only game that has done that in the Halo world. Halo 3 was a freaking joke to get to level 50.
>
> Do I honestly think I should have ever been able to reach 50, NO. If the highest rank is 50, I don’t think I should be able to reach it add is should be for the top 10% and that’s not a place I feel I fit. I would say I am in the top 20% but still, a number means Yoink! to me. So stop using that in your description, that true-rank VISIBLE rank in H2 created the best matches in Halo, period.
You’re still seemingly quite confused. Do you seriously think Trueskill was only used in Halo 3 ranked, because that’s the only place you saw it?
Trueskill is always working, behind the scenes, to match you with players of equal caliber. It was present in H3 Ranked. It was present in H3 Social. It was present in Halo: Reach. It is present in Halo 4. I can’t recall if Halo 2 used Trueskill, I don’t think it existed at the time. I think Halo 2 matched using Bungie’s ELO algorithm, but don’t quote me on it.
Regardless of whether or not you see the little number, as you did in prior game’s, its working to match you with players. Your perception of matching incongruenties is because the restrictions on matching on loosened in other playlists where the old ranked playlists were very strict when matching.
And don’t commingle the matching criteria with whatever visible rank you think people should have (again, thank you Bungie for that mistake that continues to be a nuisance). A matching criteria built on a distributive model is easily the best option for matching players. The top 2% (earning a Trueskill 50 assignment) get matched together, the middle bunching (centered around a Trueskill 25) get matched together, etc. It works.
A visible ranking, as long as its not tied to that Trueskill rating, would be good as long as its clear whether or not its a hill climbing experience or its a comparative experience. Either way, I think an option to reset that rating and take another stab at it is best. Anything to alleviate the incentive of second account creation.