Title Update Discussion

Why? Because they are slightly overpowered.

In Halo 3, and even now they don’t FEEL like grenades, they feel like firworks. In Halo 3 they were perfect.

This is supposed to be military grade explosives. Is that why it is as big as a pineapple?

Updated list:

THINGS TO CHANGE:

  • For active camo to look the same in your first person view as it does to others. As of now if you looks 50% invisuble, you are actually like 80% invisble to everybody else. Just use active camo, move around a little, and view it in theatre while swithcing from 1st person and 3rd, and you’ll see a huge difference. Making it so it stops flickering in 1st person would be nice too. Totally agree

- I’d also like to see the secondary emblem “four diamonds” to go back to how it was in 3, in reach it’s just a duplicate of “4 plots”. It’s annoying to see an emblem removed, more so when it’s just replaced with a emblem already present in game. Just bring them all back, the one from Halo 2-3- ODST.

- Can we please get purple and green, not red and blue? I know we can’t have indivual shades of purple and green, or make it so spartans are always green and elites purple, but just make it so the forced color is changed to those two. Agree

- Make use of ALL of Boneyard in non-invasion games, as of now only half of the map is used. I agree that they should use more of the maps.

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THINGS NOT TO CHANGE

  • Don’t touch bloom. Every halo game has had it, this is the first time it’s directly visible, like how we have had health in every halo game, it’s not not always been shown on the HUD Make it opinional so the classic playlist don’t have it and the other’s do. Btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHGItn8JCz0 <-- that is how it SHOULD be.

- Leave grenade damage as is, or even increase it a bit, not quite to beta levels. These are military grade explosives, not fireworks Increase it??? What? I don’t give a rat’s -Yoink- about if they are military grade explosives. Balance > realism.

Regarding the Grenade Launcher, it is very situational. Extremely useful in tight corridors found in Swordbase, but on the other hand it’s very hard to use in open spaces where you have to hit your enemy right on and that’s very hard to accomplish if your target is constantly moving. It’s tough to balance.

Don’t touch bloom. Every halo game has had it, this is the first time it’s directly visible, like how we have had health in every halo game, it’s not not always been shown on the HUD
halo 2 and 3 didn’t have bloom…

I had posted a thread a while back on this, and now that 343 has confirmed that they are doing a title update, I decided to bring it back as a more condensed and readable post.

Please 343, if you want the hardcore Halo fans playing Reach and Halo: CEA again, add a control option to TURN OFF AIM ACCELERATION. This should be in conjunction with updates to the melee system, bloom, and armor lock.

Aim acceleration has nothing to do with aim assist, auto aim, or bullet magnetism. It has to do with making Halo 3 and Halo Reach feel like you are trying to control a lumbering tank compared to a nimble Spartan in Halo 1 and Halo 2.

This. Reach is slightly better in this regard than Halo 3, but both of them take a few games to get used to the strange aim acceleration. Whenever I play Halo 1/2, you get on and the aim feels perfect.

I have no idea why aim acceleration was ever introduced.

Considering that the title update will allow 343 to hopefully add more options to make Halo have a more classic feel, I would be beyond happy if they finally gave the option to turn off aim acceleration. The unresponsiveness of aiming in Halo 3 and Halo Reach is what drove me away from Halo, and as a fan of Halo since CE, this option would bring me, as well as many other Halo 1 and 2 fans, back to Reach and CEA multiplayer. There are of course many other changes I am hoping for, such as tweaks to armor lock and the melee system.

> I had posted a thread a while back on this, and now that 343 has confirmed that they are doing a title update, I decided to bring it back as a more condensed and readable post.
>
> Please 343, if you want the hardcore Halo fans playing Reach and Halo: CEA again, add a control option to TURN OFF AIM ACCELERATION. This should be in conjunction with updates to the melee system, bloom, and armor lock.
>
> Aim acceleration has nothing to do with aim assist, auto aim, or bullet magnetism. It has to do with making Halo 3 and Halo Reach feel like you are trying to control a lumbering tank compared to a nimble Spartan in Halo 1 and Halo 2.

I would rather them remove Aim Acceleration from Halo: Reach as it is. The game has similar bullet magnetism to Halo 2, which had no Aim Acceleration. Reach has what seems like twice the Aim Acceleration that Halo 3 had. Both games (Reach and H2) have hitscan on weapons so I am drawing parallels.

Put more skill back into Halo, make it harder for people. Reach is Halo Lite at the moment with all these things to assist aim.

The granddaddy Halo CE had very little bullet magnetism and no Aim Acceleration.

Bring back skill please.

I want to be clear, right out of the gate…That this is not a “hate” thread. This is, however, a criticism thread that looks negatively upon many aspects of Halo Reach. I’m going to try as hard as I can (And I assure you, this is not easy.) to check my negative emotions at the door.

I’ve made many topics criticizing, nitpicking, and yes, even raging about Reach in my day. However, over the past few months, I stopped playing Reach regularly, and pretty much just stuck to talking about how to improve it. I thought it was a bit ironic that while I was talking about Reach a lot, I never really played it. Well, today being Bungie day and all…And me not having much to do…

I decided to put my nose to the grindstone and play as much Reach as I could today, with the purpose of finding out if all those problems that basically made me quit playing Reach were as bad as I remember them to be.

Results?

THEY WERE.

At first, I wasn’t really noticing much, and I was actually having fun herp-derping around with a Jetpack and a Plasma Repeater. But, after that got old…All those problems started coming back, and I began to get frustrated. Mild frustration turned to Anger, and that led to me putting down my controller about a half-hour ago, deciding that I was going to write this post, and probably never, ever, EVER play another game of Default Slayer ever again.

So…coming fresh off of an entire day of Reach…Here are Reach’s problems:

1. Armor Lock:

So, this Armor Ability is broken. It just is. If you’re still in denial about this, you should probably seek professional help, because there is something deeply wrong with you. I can’t tell you how much I had to deal with this AA today. It was BAD. Funny thing was…In the hands of a herp-derp, this Armor Ability is the easiest one to counter. You really do just sit there, wait for the right time, and throw a 'nade…

However, in the hands of anyone who has some degree of skill, and uses team coordination…This Armor Ability is just a nightmare. The skilled players know they can win any CQC fight with this AA by quickly locking as you melee them, then getting out of lock when you’re still in contact with them, causing your shields to fall, and they pummel you. But that isn’t even the worst of it.

I saw many teams simply running the “Dual Lockers” strategy; Pairing up and just trading off locks to take down individual players. It was unbeatable in the right hands. If these people were derps, again, this would be easy as pie…But these were highly-skilled players using this AA as a tool to give the other team no fighting chance at all.

I tell you, some of those games I really felt like rage-quitting. I didn’t…But when you have a bunch of ignorant teenagers all using Armor Lock, Power Weapons, and are all laughing and Tea-Bagging you when you’re the last person left on your team…That’s some strong temptation.

Bottom Line: Armor Lock is an overpowered Armor Ability in the right hands, and should frankly be removed from all small-team Slayer gametypes ASAP, if not removed from the entire game. It’s that broken, and based on my experience, anyone who denies this is either a USER of this broken, overpowered ability…Or has simply had the luck of never running into entire teams of very skilled players using Armor Lock to move themselves up from “Very good” to “Unbeatable”.

2. Bloom/Weapon Damage

I’m going to lump these two because I think they overlap more than most people realize.

First of all…We all know the problem with Bloom: Spammers have the ability to win over Pacers. No matter what percentage of the time…The fact that this can happen at all is a problem, and does not lend itself well to competitive play…Or really any kind of play. There is a far more overlooked problem with Bloom, however, and it ties in perfectly with my other big complaint in this category…

The difference in power from “Power weapons” to “Utility weapons” is too great…And this is actually BECAUSE of Bloom. Allow me to explain:

Power Weapons are supposed to be powerful…Duh…But they’re also supposed to be able to be countered in some form. In the previous Halo games, we saw that if a user was good enough with a utility weapon (Usually a BR/Pistol), then they could counter someone with a power weapon if they out-played them, and the power weapon user had to be smart to stay alive.

However, the utility weapons in Reach are set to such a slow kill-time, and are so nerfed, that you will have a VERY hard time taking down anyone with a power weapon by yourself. The obvious fix would be to “Buff the utility weapons!”…But not so fast, guys. We have Bloom to worry about…

See, the reason the utility weapons like the DMR and Needle Rifle are so weak power-wise is because they are SPAMMABLE. If you’re going up against a power-weapon user at a spammable range…Then that kill time just got cut in half, and the utility weapon user just got more powerful. This creates a disconnect. If you buffed the Utility Weapons to help combat Power Weapons and even the playing field, you would inherently turn those utility weapons into Power Weapons at a spammable range.

Follow?

Basically, Bloom forces utility weapons to be nerfed so they aren’t overpowered at spammable ranges. However, in doing this, it makes them almost useless against power weapons at their intended ranges. Because of this fact, power weapons become a very dominant force in the battlefield…And if you’re going up against a half-decent team hell-bent on Weapon Control…You might as well send them a steak yourself.

Bottom Line: Something needs to happen here. I think fixing Bloom so spamming is no longer an option is the easiest one. However, this would have to be fixed so well that spamming a utility weapon would not be effective at ANY range, including super-close. The other option is to remove bloom entirely, and go back to recoil and capped rates of fire. I personally think the second solution is better, because you can then buff the Utility Weapons to stand a chance against Power Weapons without turning them into CQC killing machines.

(Cont…)

3. Shield Recharge Rate

This is something that after going back to Halo 3 for a bit…You just can’t help but be frustrated by. It seems that in Reach, once your shields are down, it takes an eternity for them to come back up. Your shields not only stay DOWN for a long time, but it also takes a while for them to fully recharge. I don’t have the exact numbers, but I feel like once my shields get popped, it takes about 7 seconds for me to go back to a combat-ready status.

This is way…WAY too long.

On smaller, or more compact maps - Where grenades are flying almost constantly, and there’s an enemy around every corner - that amount of time is simply unacceptable. Whenever my shields went down, I would immediately try to find some cover to get them back up. Unfortunately, most of the time, someone found me before my shields could come back up. I also found that if I was in a tight spot, it was very hard to get away and get my shields back. I’d get around a few corners, away from the immediate threat, but then I’d run into someone else before my shields even started to come back.

Fun fact: I played a lot of Elite Slayer today…And Elite’s shields come up very quickly. This felt a lot better, and I found myself dying less because I could get away for a second, get some shields back, and get back in the fight in about 3 seconds as opposed to 5-7.

Bottom Line: Shields need to recharge faster, and not stay down as long. This cannot be changed in Custom Games, actually, because the amount of time shields stay down is un-editable. Recharge rate, however, is.

4. Grenade Damage and Movement Speed

Ever heard of the term “Nuke nades” before? Of course you have…Because the grenades in Reach are little atomic bombs. This, of course, wouldn’t be a problem if we didn’t start with two of the darn things. Arena has it right: One nade is ENOUGH. Part of the reason I saw so much Armor Lock usage today was because the Grenade Spam WOULD NOT STOP. If I saw someone, and went in for the kill, the first thing they’d do is start spamming grenades to try to save themselves. Not even tactically placing them…Just spamming them like mad!

Thing is, it worked a lot of the time. If you fill up a player’s area with grenades to the point that they have nowhere to go…They will probably die. And it’s not hard to do with Reach’s nades, because they’ve got such a darned LARGE blast radius!

This all wouldn’t be so bad if we were equipped to actually AVOID grenades. Reach’s movement speed is just slow enough where if a nade lands at your feet, you can’t get completely outside of the blast radius no matter how hard you tried. I found it to be more effective to use the Jetpack to GET ABOVE grenades than to try to jump or side-step away. That’s a problem…

Bottom Line: Grenades need a nerf. Badly. They need to serve two purposes: Taking down shields, and killing unshielded opponents. I personally believe that Grenades should not be able to eat into Health if a person has at least half shields. The Blast Radius doesn’t even need to be modified if this nerf was in place. The other aspect of this is movement speed, which is in dire need of some speeding up. I just feel clunky and heavy in Reach…Not at all like a well-oiled Spartan Killing Machine!

Oi. Man, what a long post. I’m trying to think of anything else, but it’s not coming to me. Point is…The above 4 items really make this game frustrating and very un-enjoyable after a while. I’m a pretty tolerant and cool-headed individual in video games, but Reach just gets right in there and pushes all the wrong buttons for me. Perhaps it was because I was playing Default Slayer all day…But what does that say about Default Slayer, eh? What does this say about Armor Abilities? What does this say about what is supposed to be Reach’s core experience?

I think all these points are objective as well. I hope I did a good enough job with them where it didn’t just sound like random whining about Armor Lock or Nades. I feel like I backed up each point with evidence and things that are straight up TRUE about the game.

TL;DR?

I welcome any changes that 343 has in mind with open arms…Because I honestly, truly, un-trollingly feel that this game’s core gameplay can’t get any worse.

Thanks for your time, readers.

Apologies in advance for my lack of creativity, but here are some threads that I made a while ago on bnet that are applicable. I’ll quote bits from each to give an idea…

Veto 2.7: Strata Variety, Map Preferences, & Symbiotic Adaption

Government 101: If you’re going to give people the right to vote, don’t put Stephen Colbert on the ballot every time. He’ll steal all the votes (same logic applies)

> Posted by: Humblamity Calamity
> + Veto system is currently broken, failing to provide equivalent or equal choice. Tyrannies rule and all are unsatisfied.
> + Veto system should use organized ‘strata’ groupings that pit ‘like’ gametypes against each other to enable fair competitive voting.
> + Voting occurs in two parts: First Gametypes, then Maps.
> + “Adaptive” System monitors your game choices and adds a ‘preference box’ to help match you with like-minded players. This also helps to choose the most desired gametype among current players.
>
> >>>
>
> […]Let’s roll back into (or remain within) our schoolboy days in the lunch line. Every day I was forced to make a decision on the main course, three sides, and a drink. The main course usually had 2 or 3 options to choose from, like Pizza, Eggrolls, FUBAR Lasagna, etc. Sides included oranges, plums, carrots, salads, jello, etc. And w/ drinks it was basically white/choco/strawberry milk.
>
> Stay with me. Notice how you were never forced to make the decision between choosing a main course or a side. You were never asked, “Do you want Pizza OR Carrots, because you can only have one…” No, that doesn’t make any sense now does it? However, given the choice, most people would choose the pizza because, of the two, it is the more fufilling over all and contains the majority of nutrients we need to survive the idiocracy and crude ignorance of the high school local.
>
> Compare this to Reach. Let’s hypothetically jump into Big Team and see the following options:
>
> 1. BTB Slayer on Hemo (Main Course, Pizza)
> 2. 2 Flag on Zealot (Side, Carrots)
> 3. Stockpile on Atom (Dessert, Jello + Whip Cream)
>
> Why in the blazes are we being forced to choose between all of these things when they are inherently unrelated. It’s like forcing the lightweight and heavyweight champions to box each other. It’s silly and totally unfair; see what I mean?[…]

Seasons: Champions of the Arena (I’m Spartacus)

> + If seasons are the biggest beef against Arena’s progress, I’m all smiles. This is chump change compared to a lack of visible ranks. (Thanks for fixing that Jeremiah! 108 FTW)
> + CHEATING is the reason for the redesign of the entire matchmaking setup. It is the driving force behind all the change.
>
> + Fixes = Axing: “Ranked” (1) Visibility (2) Permanency (3) Mid Term Investment (4) Long Term Investment (5)
> + Jeremiah’s system aims to pump familiar competitive lifestyle back into halo while also condemning forms of cheating. It decides that you CAN rely on a single anti-cheater implement and chooses “seasons” as its weapon of choice.
>
> + Reanimated by J & Team: “Ranked” (1) Visibility (2) MID Term Investment (4)
> + Up for grabs: Permanency (3) & LONG Term Investment (+ Variety) (5)

Reasonable User Interface Upgrades: Arena & Then Some

^^^ Caveat: Some of these changes were made AND I no longer endorse #5. Instead, I would propose that massive cR bounties go out to ranked players at the end of every season to incentivize players to ‘do it their own way’. You want to show dedication to 100% social, that’s fine. Play however you want. You want the quickest way to mythic ranks? Play competitive vanilla Halo. Simple.

And just for fun: Christmas 2010… my version of a BWU: [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=54566628

I agree with all of these. One thing you didn’t mention was the horrible no-bleed through melee system. It just encourages people to double melee all the time instead of using a gun.

Good post, I completely agree with you. If 343 fixed these issues default would actually be enjoyable instead of frustrating.

i like the game just how it is. Although i cant wait to see what new things they do.

One of the best critiques on Reach I’ve ever seen. I agree with everything except that you would want a recoil on the DMR when it has no bloom. I don’t think a recoil would be needed. Never been a fan of those on precision weapons.

I agree with all your thoughts on armor lock, bloom, shield recharge rate, and grenades.

We are in need of that Title Update for Halo to be fun again. Otherwise it is just a frustrated mess (bonus points to people who get this reference).

Nice post. I agree with everything except for the utility weapon not standing a chance against power weapons. The DMR does plenty enough damage in my opinion. In a 1v1 encounter, it is only logical that the player with the power weapon will win (unless he chokes). On the other hand, getting shot by 2-3 DMR’s will make any player drop as quick as lightning regardless of what weapon he has. Also, getting rid of spamming will only worsen the weapon damage dilemma you’ve explained.

dude i hate to flame but this game is fun and all your changes are making it into halo 3. this is reach not halo 3. these events take before halo series so you have to think of that you really do. armor lock is not broken or anything it is barely included any more in any playlist i hope 343 industries doesnt change anything and i think they wont really. did you play halo 1 btw this game was in honor of that and is like that reminds me of halo 1

> I saw many teams simply running the “Dual Lockers” strategy; Pairing up and just trading off locks to take down individual players. It was unbeatable in the right hands. If these people were derps, again, this would be easy as pie…But these were highly-skilled players using this AA as a tool to give the other team no fighting chance at all.

It’s like they’re Headhuntes or something :smiley:

As for everything, I understand you want a playlist that plays more exactly like Halo2 or 3 (cause you don’t want Halo:CE’s fall damage, slow recharging shields or low jump height), but to make all of Reach play just a certain way, I think your missing the point of your intended point.

> dude i hate to flame but this game is fun and all your changes are making it into halo 3. this is reach not halo 3. these events take before halo series so you have to think of that you really do. armor lock is not broken or anything it is barely included any more in any playlist i hope 343 industries doesnt change anything and i think they wont really. did you play halo 1 btw this game was in honor of that and is like that reminds me of halo 1

These things aren’t frequently bashed on because of simple nostalgia. They are bashed on because they are actual problems that ruin gameplay in one way or another. You don’t want 343i to change anything? In other words, you want 343i to abandon Reach? Not gonna happen, buddy. This game was definitely not in honor of Halo 1.

Completely agree OP. Very well written post.

I would also like to add I played as much Reach today on bungie day as I could bare. So I could pay my respects to bungie, and teams spamming armor lock drew me to the edges of sanity.