Title Update Discussion

Games Other Halo
121

No. What we, have is the competitive gene. We want a halo experience that isn’t biased or baed off a luck factor. Just like previous editons. Innovations are good. But you need to keep the core of the game. Halo Reach looses this. It’s not a competitive and highly annoying for the hard-core community.

There needs to be a skill gap element. It needs to be consistant in weapons. Bloom should be to punish not create a coin toss situation.
I believe a FPS such as halo which has a highly competitive reputation should be 100% accuracy wins. Not a luck factor of rate of fire.

The point i am making is this, if your casual. The changes we wan’t regarding bloom, AL, melee. HELP the game. A weekend player wouldn’t even notice. We arn’t complainers we just see this game as a uncut dimond. It has the potential to be better than halo 2.

So no im not complaining. I just want a fair game that is enjoyable. So i can regain that Halo magic and sit and play for 8+ Hours straight.

122

> A) There’s nothing to fix
>
> and
>
> B) If you ever actually took the time to read Bungie’s messages (BWU), then you would know that they’ve been working on a major multiplayer update for quite some time now.
>
> And don’t make up rumors. It doesn’t make you look cool.

perhaps i should tell you the same thing

1 you saying it doesn’t have problem is a matter of opinion and entirely subjective

2 that is nothing but rumor and the OP is right 343 is taking over reach he has proof so what you say is a rumor because ive been reading the updates and they never said they where doing a big multiplayer update.

you made a rumor yourself and you tell people not to make rumors?
yeah that doesn’t make you look cool.

123

Look, it’s not my intent to put down the competitive community but most of you claiming to be a part of it are either crazy or truly don’t know what you want/are talking about.

> We want a halo experience that isn’t biased or baed off a luck factor.

Which is it, luck based or biased based? It isn’t lucky I won while the system was biased towards me winning.

But while we’re on that, creating a biased encounter removes the luck factor if it was possible to exist.

> It needs to be consistant in weapons. Bloom should be to punish not create a coin toss situation.

Look in a balanced system, there is always a 50-50 chance of winning. Make it anything different and the system is no longer balanced. Guess what the odds of winning a coin-toss are?
The DMR was mathematically proven to be at best, a 50% chance of winning weapon in an everything else is equal match.
So guess what? In a balanced system, every encounter is a coin-toss. Skill is required to tilt the scales of balance.
The bloom is easily seen and therefore predictable and consistent.

> “I believe a FPS such as halo which has a highly competitive reputation should be 100% accuracy wins. Not a luck factor of rate of fire.”

Yet the BR in Halo3 had a random spread (2nd and 3rd bullet) that made the gun less than reliable at the ranges the DMR is suppose to be very reliable at. The spread that was barely noticeable at short and medium range is emulated by the Needle Rifles’s ability to shoot 2 shots before becoming inaccurate.
Your claim of 100% accuracy is now proven false on the BR. Shall we get started on the Halo3 Carbine or Pistol and their inability to shoot in the middle of the reticle? At least all 3 basic precision weapons in Reach can hit their first shots on their mark.

> The point i am making is this, if your casual. The changes we wan’t regarding bloom, AL, melee. HELP the game. A weekend player wouldn’t even notice. We arn’t complainers we just see this game as a uncut dimond. It has the potential to be better than halo 2.

It’s not about what time of the week one plays, it is the modes that ones plays. The full sandbox is definitely fun and useful in Invasion gametypes. Does the Arena need AL?, no. I think evade is better suited than AL. Does it need to be removed from the game? Hell, no. BTB definitely needs AL in it.

Melee itself? It works perfect IMO. Knowing science as I do, popping shields makes perfect sense. It’s how they would work. As far as explosions bleeding through but everything else doesn’t, it’s how explosions work. The blast waves travel faster than the compressions waves and so the shockwave downs the shields and the compression waves do the damage. Projectiles would disintegrate upon impact, depleting shield strength but also ionizing (hence no bleed through as gas poofs off the shields).

As far a bloom, it’s about every weapon vs every weapon, not DMR vs DMR fights. Spamming is an option. It can win a fight. But a better team will prevent the spammer from hitting them. If that is different than previous Halos, so be it. Is it broken or uncompetitive? Heck no, that is besides the point.

124

It’s ok to say it:

We the competitive community want an overpowered precision weapon that is capable of handling itself at any range. We want to use a shotgun at close range if we feel like it might be fun. Even though a shotgun or melee should be the quicker killer at close range, we want a precision weapon that will kill just as quickly. And even though a sniper should be the quick killer during ranged combat, we want a precision weapon that kills just as equally as fast during close range encounters as it does during long range encounters in spite of a sniper being present.

Honestly, it’s ok. That would be the ultimate FPS weapon.

I’m glad we didn’t get onto map size too much. I know how those BTB maps slow down gameplay and all.

125

> A) There’s nothing to fix
>
> and
>
> B) If you ever actually took the time to read Bungie’s messages (BWU), then you would know that they’ve been working on a major multiplayer update for quite some time now.
>
> And don’t make up rumors. It doesn’t make you look cool.

hahaha wow you actually think there is nothing to fix. you are very blind. that major multiplayer update you are talking about is probably just the playlists updates. they some what fixed arena but i doubt the population is going to rise, the put doubles arena(most popular arena playlist) in the competitive playlist, they made multi team 3v3v3v3, and maybe a few other playlist stuff. thats pretty much it. the only thing bungie talks about is playlist updates because they are too lazy to make a patch that changes game mechanics.

126

> I can tell quite a few of you guys are from B.net, so I’m just going to say this once:
>
> Please have some respect for the developer. This includes Bungie. Think about how you’re wording your posts. Try not to come of as demanding. We as the community request changes from the developer, not demand them. Please refrain from using words like “want”, and use more “please” and “thank you”.
>
> > What people view as “problems” are purely based on perception. Things like armor lock, bloom, running speed and height, they aren’t truly problems. Sure, they impact the gameplay, but they don’t break it.
>
> These are the genuine problems. Bugs, glitches, they are the real issues. These are what needs to be fixed.

However, what would be extremely helpful if they did make the game more like a true expansion of the Halo series. As a game, it’s mediocre. As a Halo game, it’s massively disappointing. I’m sorry to say, but Reach has been an overall failure so far. I’m desperately hoping that 343 can turn this around, and I have a lot of faith that they will.

PS: From a competitive standpoint (MLG/Tournament play), the problems DO break the game. It’s determined more by randomness and luck than having skill and being able to outplay your opponent.

127

> It’s ok to say it:
>
> We the competitive community want an overpowered precision weapon that is capable of handling itself at any range. We want to use a shotgun at close range if we feel like it might be fun. Even though a shotgun or melee should be the quicker killer at close range, we want a precision weapon that will kill just as quickly. And even though a sniper should be the quick killer during ranged combat, we want a precision weapon that kills just as equally as fast during close range encounters as it does during long range encounters in spite of a sniper being present.
>
> Honestly, it’s ok. That would be the ultimate FPS weapon.
>
> I’m glad we didn’t get onto map size too much. I know how those BTB maps slow down gameplay and all.

Don’t be a tool. Just because YOU personally do not like the competitive community, does not give you a right to think you are in any way, shape, or form superior. Nor does it mean that YOUR opinion of fun is the only way of fun and that competitive players are misled. You, pal, are ignorant and a plague.

128

I am not thinking like am superior. I am countering false-truths and outright lies.

I will point out, it is you and your competitive minded friends that are telling other people how to have fun. The DMR must be the weapon of choice and all others must balance around it. That is not how Reach is played but it is how you want it played. That is you being a hypocrite, not me. And me telling you how Reach works is not me telling you how to have fun. You telling me I am wrong and that things should be like previous Halos proves your ignorance and arrogance.

The bloom, AL, melees… they’re not broken mechanics, they’re mechanics you don’t like. And because you don’t like them in certain playlists, they must be removed from Reach… Not even a hint of “this playlist should be tweaked” or “this AA should be here but not here.” You outright want them gone from Reach.

That is you being what we call a stop having fun guy.

Wanna read up on it?

129

> The bloom, AL, melees… they’re not broken mechanics, they’re mechanics you don’t like. And because you don’t like them in certain playlists, they must be removed from Reach… Not even a hint of “this playlist should be tweaked” or “this AA should be here but not here.” You outright want them gone from Reach.
>
> That is you being what we call a stop having fun guy.

you can not say for a fact if they are broken mechanics or not because its a mater of opinion
i think AL needs to be nerfd and the DMRs bloom needs to be more random like the needle rifle
also the betrayal system doesn’t work right and is broken

im not stating that as fact because i know its my opinion and you should know him thinking they are broken game mechanics is his opinion and you disagreeing is yours.
though im sure you know this already so i will share my own thoughts

I don’t think AL is a broken mechanic, though i do think its overpowered

look at the other AAs they all do one/two things

1 Drop Shield: once deployed it protects you
2 Active Camo: makes you invisible
3 Sprint: Makes you faster
4 Hologram: creates a hologram of yourself and goes in the direction you want it to
5 Evade: you roll in any direction you want
6 Jet Pack: you can fly

Armorlock does multiple things

1 you can look 360 degrees and you will instantly turn where ever your looking after you get out of AL
2 you have a EMP plus a instant melee
3 vehicles blow up when they hit you [if there going as fast as they can]
4 if you stay in cover for about 2/3 seconds you can go into AL and your shields will recharge while in AL [as long as AL is fully charged and you can use the full amount]
5 AL can be used as a distraction
6 you can live through rockets and plasmas
7 when you melee someone in AL you take damage,

because of this i beleave AL is overpowered and should be nerfd/fixed and i have hope that 343 will fix this problem.

130

> Look in a balanced system, there is always a 50-50 chance of winning. Make it anything different and the system is no longer balanced. Guess what the odds of winning a coin-toss are?
> The DMR was mathematically proven to be at best, a 50% chance of winning weapon in an everything else is equal match.
> So guess what? In a balanced system, every encounter is a coin-toss. Skill is required to tilt the scales of balance.
> The bloom is easily seen and therefore predictable and consistent.

I find it funny that you keep saying the same stuff about how Bloom works as intended yet you never addressed how bloom is based on luck.

Most games don’t get it right the first time. It’s not the end of the world if things needing fixed get fixed. Unless you work for Bungie and your lead designer is scolding you for designing bloom, you aren’t losing anything. There is no need to think Reach is working as intended with all of these issues.

The game is broken.

131

> > Look in a balanced system, there is always a 50-50 chance of winning. Make it anything different and the system is no longer balanced. Guess what the odds of winning a coin-toss are?
> > The DMR was mathematically proven to be at best, a 50% chance of winning weapon in an everything else is equal match.
> > So guess what? In a balanced system, every encounter is a coin-toss. Skill is required to tilt the scales of balance.
> > The bloom is easily seen and therefore predictable and consistent.
>
> I find it funny that you keep saying the same stuff about how Bloom works as intended yet you never addressed how bloom is based on luck.
>
> Most games don’t get it right the first time. It’s not the end of the world if things needing fixed get fixed. Unless you work for Bungie and your lead designer is scolding you for designing bloom, you aren’t losing anything. There is no need to think Reach is working as intended with all of these issues.
>
> The game is broken.

Already addressed it back there. You can see the size of the blooming reticle. You can see what % of it covers the enemy. If 100% covers the enemy, you will hit 100%.

If the reticle, regardless of size if 75% on the body and 25% on the head, you have a 100% chance of hitting the enemy and a 25% chance of hitting the head.

If the reticle is on the enemy by 50% and only on the head by 10%, you have a 40% chance of missing, a 50% chance of hitting and a 10% chance of hitting the head.

You have complete control on the cover and AAs you can use. Pressing select when wielding a DMR states “x3 scoped weapon. Rate of fire determines accuracy.”

Now what is a problem is that it is impossible to 5-shot with a connection that has a ping of over 400ms (or so the rumor goes). That needs to be fixed, not bloom.

132

> “you can not say for a fact if they are broken mechanics or not because its a mater of opinion
> i think AL needs to be nerfd and the DMRs bloom needs to be more random like the needle rifle
> also the betrayal system doesn’t work right and is broken”

You’re right to a degree with your first sentence. An absolute fact, no. But I am using more than opinion or educated guess as my grounds.
As far as AL being nerfed, I don’t think it needs it. Does it need playlist/gametype limitations? Hell ya, it shouldn’t be in every playlist. And I agree, not in most Slayer Matches. Like the DS shouldn’t be in most Objective game.

> Ilook at the other AAs they all do one/two things
>
> 1 Drop Shield: once deployed it protects you
> 2 Active Camo: makes you invisible
> 3 Sprint: Makes you faster
> 4 Hologram: creates a hologram of yourself and goes in the direction you want it to
> 5 Evade: you roll in any direction you want
> 6 Jet Pack: you can fly
>
> Armorlock does multiple things
>
> 1 you can look 360 degrees and you will instantly turn where ever your looking after you get out of AL
> 2 you have a EMP plus a instant melee
> 3 vehicles blow up when they hit you [if there going as fast as they can]
> 4 if you stay in cover for about 2/3 seconds you can go into AL and your shields will recharge while in AL [as long as AL is fully charged and you can use the full amount]
> 5 AL can be used as a distraction
> 6 you can live through rockets and plasmas
> 7 when you melee someone in AL you take damage,

But see, that is what we call a biased opinion. You generalize the other AA functions in very simple points and go into specific uses of Armour Lock.

  1. Drop Shield: once deployed it protects you. Replenishes health only. Destructible. Vehicles can pass through it.

2 ) Active Camo: makes you invisible. can be used as a distraction. Must move slow to be effective.

  1. Sprint: Makes you faster. You can get to powerweapons quicker. You can jump large gaps and you can either increase or decrease the distance to the enemy quickly. Can’t shoot while running. Lets you run away from grenades but usually not well aimed rocket explosion. Can hear you breathing a mile away.

  2. Hologram: creates a hologram of yourself and goes in the direction you want it to. Used mostly as a distraction. Will take a melee or 2 for you if timed right. Players can hide inside their hologram while crouched and avoid being hit by the first few shots meant for the player specifically.

  3. Evade: you roll in any direction you want. Player speed determines size of leap. Not very helpful near the edges of a map/ledge. Gets you to powerweapns quickly. Let’s you avoid grenades, projectiles and explosions with ease. Let’s you attack the enemy or disengage the enemy very, very quickly. Get out of vehicles paths quickly too.

  4. Jet Pack: you can fly. Gets you around the a map vertically. Lets you fly away from explosions. Lets you get to perches. Can prevent fatal falls. Can be an automatic “high ground.” Easier to skyjack.

Now I will correct the AL:

Armorlock does multiple things

  1. You can look 360 degrees and you will instantly turn where ever your looking after you get out of AL. ( I do agree, that this could be reduced to a 270’ view).

2 ) You must charge the AL for a full 5 seconds to get the minimal EMP-blowback.

3 ) Vehicles blow up when they hit you [if there going as fast as they can].

  1. Shields can recharge a sliver of power if a player can maintain AL for the full charge.

  2. AL can be used as a distraction.

  3. You can survive any hit while in AL, as long as the connection to host isn’t buggy. Precision shots are ineffective on a frosted host player leaving AL but explosions and melees are still 100% effective.

  4. when you melee someone in AL, your shields deplete. If you are moving fast enough (sword lunge), you can outright die from the impact (with no shields).

  5. You can instantly toss a grenade without animation up exiting AL.

  6. You are completely immobile while Armour Locked. The powerweapons you are too slow to get to are ineffective when in AL.

  7. Needles and stickies become unstuck.

  8. Can only activate when feet are planted on a solid object. (The concussion rifle can prevent AL activation.)

For me, if any ability is OPed, it is Evade. It allows me to move with speed and agility. Something no other AA can.

133

The best and most immediate relief that we can get for Halo Reach is the classic playlist. Check out the thread I made here. There is a HUGE following on Bungie.net and the playlist is coming out sometime in March.

http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/7/p/3207/20455.aspx#20455

134

> The best and most immediate relief that we can get for Halo Reach is the classic playlist. Check out the thread I made here. There is a HUGE following on Bungie.net and the playlist is coming out sometime in March.
>
> http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/7/p/3207/20455.aspx#20455

The Classic Playlist is a great time guys. Give it a try, it feels more like halo should.

135

> Already addressed it back there. You can see the size of the blooming reticle. You can see what % of it covers the enemy. If 100% covers the enemy, you will hit 100%.
>
> If the reticle, regardless of size if 75% on the body and 25% on the head, you have a 100% chance of hitting the enemy and a 25% chance of hitting the head.
>
> If the reticle is on the enemy by 50% and only on the head by 10%, you have a 40% chance of missing, a 50% chance of hitting and a 10% chance of hitting the head.
>
> You have complete control on the cover and AAs you can use. Pressing select when wielding a DMR states “x3 scoped weapon. Rate of fire determines accuracy.”
>
> Now what is a problem is that it is impossible to 5-shot with a connection that has a ping of over 400ms (or so the rumor goes). That needs to be fixed, not bloom.

You didn’t address time.

Person shooting at 75% has more time to fire more shots than 100%.

Person shooting at 50% has more time to fire than 75% and much more than 100%.

This issue is what you keep failing to address. The way bloom is now is that luck can be on your side to get a faster kill.

136

> > “you can not say for a fact if they are broken mechanics or not because its a mater of opinion
> > i think AL needs to be nerfd and the DMRs bloom needs to be more random like the needle rifle
> > also the betrayal system doesn’t work right and is broken”
>
> You’re right to a degree with your first sentence. An absolute fact, no. But I am using more than opinion or educated guess as my grounds.
> As far as AL being nerfed, I don’t think it needs it. Does it need playlist/gametype limitations? Hell ya, it shouldn’t be in every playlist. And I agree, not in most Slayer Matches. Like the DS shouldn’t be in most Objective game.
>
>
>
>
> > Ilook at the other AAs they all do one/two things
> >
> > 1 Drop Shield: once deployed it protects you
> > 2 Active Camo: makes you invisible
> > 3 Sprint: Makes you faster
> > 4 Hologram: creates a hologram of yourself and goes in the direction you want it to
> > 5 Evade: you roll in any direction you want
> > 6 Jet Pack: you can fly
> >
> > Armorlock does multiple things
> >
> > 1 you can look 360 degrees and you will instantly turn where ever your looking after you get out of AL
> > 2 you have a EMP plus a instant melee
> > 3 vehicles blow up when they hit you [if there going as fast as they can]
> > 4 if you stay in cover for about 2/3 seconds you can go into AL and your shields will recharge while in AL [as long as AL is fully charged and you can use the full amount]
> > 5 AL can be used as a distraction
> > 6 you can live through rockets and plasmas
> > 7 when you melee someone in AL you take damage,
>
> But see, that is what we call a biased opinion. You generalize the other AA functions in very simple points and go into specific uses of Armour Lock.
>
>
>
> 1) Drop Shield: once deployed it protects you. Replenishes health only. Destructible. Vehicles can pass through it.
>
> 2 ) Active Camo: makes you invisible. can be used as a distraction. Must move slow to be effective.
>
> 3) Sprint: Makes you faster. You can get to powerweapons quicker. You can jump large gaps and you can either increase or decrease the distance to the enemy quickly. Can’t shoot while running. Lets you run away from grenades but usually not well aimed rocket explosion. Can hear you breathing a mile away.
>
> 4) Hologram: creates a hologram of yourself and goes in the direction you want it to. Used mostly as a distraction. Will take a melee or 2 for you if timed right. Players can hide inside their hologram while crouched and avoid being hit by the first few shots meant for the player specifically.
>
> 5) Evade: you roll in any direction you want. Player speed determines size of leap. Not very helpful near the edges of a map/ledge. Gets you to powerweapns quickly. Let’s you avoid grenades, projectiles and explosions with ease. Let’s you attack the enemy or disengage the enemy very, very quickly. Get out of vehicles paths quickly too.
>
> 6) Jet Pack: you can fly. Gets you around the a map vertically. Lets you fly away from explosions. Lets you get to perches. Can prevent fatal falls. Can be an automatic “high ground.” Easier to skyjack.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now I will correct the AL:
>
> Armorlock does multiple things
>
> 1) You can look 360 degrees and you will instantly turn where ever your looking after you get out of AL. ( I do agree, that this could be reduced to a 270’ view).
>
> 2 ) You must charge the AL for a full 5 seconds to get the minimal EMP-blowback.
>
> 3 ) Vehicles blow up when they hit you [if there going as fast as they can].
>
> 4) Shields can recharge a sliver of power if a player can maintain AL for the full charge.
>
> 5) AL can be used as a distraction.
>
> 6) You can survive any hit while in AL, as long as the connection to host isn’t buggy. Precision shots are ineffective on a frosted host player leaving AL but explosions and melees are still 100% effective.
>
> 7) when you melee someone in AL, your shields deplete. If you are moving fast enough (sword lunge), you can outright die from the impact (with no shields).
>
> 8) You can instantly toss a grenade without animation up exiting AL.
>
> 9) You are completely immobile while Armour Locked. The powerweapons you are too slow to get to are ineffective when in AL.
>
> 10) Needles and stickies become unstuck.
>
> 11) Can only activate when feet are planted on a solid object. (The concussion rifle can prevent AL activation.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For me, if any ability is OPed, it is Evade. It allows me to move with speed and agility. Something no other AA can.

i will correct myself so you understand better =)

i was basicly saying overall what the abilitys do not what you can do with them

with AL it does multiple things on there own unlike the other AAs
let me explain

1 Jet Pack: all it does is make you fly
2 Evade: all it does is make you roll
3 Drop Shield: all ti does is deploy a bouble that protects you and gives you health
4 Active Camo: all it does is make you invisable
5 Hologram: all it does is send out a hologram of yourself in the direction you want
6 Sprint: all it does is make you go faster

with AL it does multiple things on its own

1 It turns you into stone
2 while in it if someone melees you they take damege
3 AL has a EMP that automaticly activates when you get out of AL
4 if a vehicle runs into you they explode if they are going as fast as they can
5 if a rocket hits you while your in AL it will either A: explode B: redirect itself back at the shooter

AL does all fo those things by itself
that is why i think its overpowered

137

> stop winging about the game if you dont like it play something else like battalfield 2 or cod bo also what is wrong with the dmr ,as far as im concerned its the best gun i have senn in any halo game so far al is just tooo long and affective for some ppl so they complain about it

or i can share my thoughts and give good constructive criticism that will only end up helping the game overall

138

My God, 343, you’re Reach’s last hope. Please, do better than Bungie with Reach… Turn Reach into a Halo game.

inb4 the problems aren’t glitches so they aren’t problems

My response: Was the Halo 3 melee system glitched pre-patch? Nope. People didn’t like it because it was unfair. Whoa, sort of like bloom!

139

Luckily, 343i is listening.

140

The melee system has to be change to a bleed through because it makes for very bad gameplay in CQC. Also the Bloom on the DMR needs to fixed because at the moment it is rewarding spammer at close range which it should not be doing.If not than get rid of bloom on the Sniper,DMR,NR and Pistol. I think they should tweak AL to make it so that it is not OP in 4v4 gametypes. And grenades should be nerfed so that we can carry 2 like in halo 3 without them being such a being mini-nukes . Fix vehicle health so that BTB can be fun again nerf the banshee bomb and tank a little to compensate for the health.Buff the plasma launcher. And start making maps which are actually fun to play on. Lets hope to god that in Halo 4 they don’t mess around with the core gameplay mechanics like in Reach.