26,000 views on this thread… I think that means something.
iQ II Urza, I’m glad you’re in the anti-bloom camp. I was wondering about you for a while! Haha.
> iQ II Urza, I’m glad you’re in the anti-bloom camp. I was wondering about you for a while! Haha.
im not in the ‘anti-bloom’ camp, im in the ‘anti-blooms implementation in reach’ camp. XD
i think bloom is a good idea, its just TERRIBLY implemented in reach.
i’d still prefer a BR that i could double shot any day tho 
> 26,000 views on this thread… I think that means something.
absolutely! i’d say it probably means people are curious // interested in change!
> iQ II Urza, I’m glad you’re in the anti-bloom camp. I was wondering about you for a while! Haha.
Urza isn’t anti-bloom, but he sees how Bloom could be optimally implemented into Halo: Reach. Which is why i’m glad he is voicing his opinion to others. Makes me feel like I don’t need to post! lol Thanks Urza!
What is this? The only DMR and Bloom thread? Please talk about other aspects of the game besides bloom because people know about the DMR and Bloom. I would like to see other things discussed because the DMR bros(reaper and urza) keep talking about the DMR and Bloom.
> What is this? The only DMR and Bloom thread? Please talk about other aspects of the game besides bloom because people know about the DMR and Bloom. I would like to see other things discussed because the DMR bros(reaper and urza) keep talking about the DMR and Bloom.
I think that the reason bloom is talked about so much is because it is the No. 1 main problem with the gameplay of Reach. We can also talk about how movement speed, and jump height hurt gameplay. There’s always grenades too.
> > What is this? The only DMR and Bloom thread? Please talk about other aspects of the game besides bloom because people know about the DMR and Bloom. I would like to see other things discussed because the DMR bros(reaper and urza) keep talking about the DMR and Bloom.
>
> I think that the reason bloom is talked about so much is because it is the No. 1 main problem with the gameplay of Reach. We can also talk about how movement speed, and jump height hurt gameplay. There’s always grenades too.
Yes, we all definetly need to discuss the movement speed, as well as the over powered grenades but theres not too much to argue about those. Movement speed needs to be increased a tad to make overall movement and strafing better in overall gameplay. Grenades should also be nerfed down and not allow as many single hit kills as your sheilds start going up. I believe if you have shields the nades should simply take all your shields and a little health. Nades are meant to pop shields and allow for the headshot kill, not nuke everything within its blast radius.
I really hope these changes are made to the game.
There are also the small glitches that need to be fixed as well!
> > iQ II Urza, I’m glad you’re in the anti-bloom camp. I was wondering about you for a while! Haha.
>
> Urza isn’t anti-bloom, but he sees how Bloom could be optimally implemented into Halo: Reach. Which is why i’m glad he is voicing his opinion to others. Makes me feel like I don’t need to post! lol Thanks Urza!
thanks for your support!
> What is this? The only DMR and Bloom thread? Please talk about other aspects of the game besides bloom because people know about the DMR and Bloom. I would like to see other things discussed because the DMR bros(reaper and urza) keep talking about the DMR and Bloom.
if you have something you’d like to talk about speak up. however i agree with AngeLexus that bloom is the primary issue.
I haven’t really been following this thread so forgive me if I’m interrupting some common debate that’s going on, but the thread title perfectly expresses how I feel. Its gotten to the point where I feel the only hope for Reach is 343i taking over and listening to the fans. I used to defend Bungie to the death, but it just keeps getting longer and longer without any significant change and I feel somewhat betrayed like they’ve turned their back on the fans. I’m sure that’s not entirely true, but I’m sure we would all appreciate a little more from their weekly updates than “Hi, here are a bunch of screenshots and a playlist update we’re working on.” At the very least they could acknowledge that they see the complaints of the community and are working on them, or even tell us that they won’t be changing anything because they believe everything is fine, just something to show the community that they haven’t completely turned their backs on us. Well now that I got that off of my chest, here’s what I think are the biggest problems with Reach and what I would do to solve them.
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Bloom - Easily the #1 problem with Reach. Bloom its self is a genius idea, but it was implemented so horribly that it’s ruining what could be an incredible game. The fix is incredibly simple (in concept, I don’t know the exact programming or mechanics that go into making these changes) just make it so one shot sends the reticle to max and it quickly retracts again. The player spamming shots will have a huge range in which shots could go, the person pacing will have consistent accuracy. The problem with bloom now is that for some reason Bungie thought it would be a good idea to have the reticle slowly increase in size, but all it does is make the first 2-3 shots of the spammer nearly as accurate as the person who is shooting more slowly. Horrible implementation, great idea.
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Bloom (Classic) - I constantly play the Team Classic playlist. This is really just a request on my part, but if it’s possible I think bloom should be removed from the classic playlist. Damage is tweaked, movement speed is tweaked, jump height is tweaked, the maps are all from CE and H2, everything has been changed to make that playlist feel like a classic Halo game, so why keep bloom when there’s nothing even remotely classic about it? Whether you think bloom is a good thing or not, you have to agree that removing it from just this one playlist would be a good idea.
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Increase movement speed and jump height - If you go from any playlist to Team Classic you’ll instantly notice how much faster gameplay is. Between the lack of AAs that delay the game (I’m looking at you AL) and the increased speed and damage the games are dramatically faster and much more enjoyable. This is what Halo is meant to be. CoD and more “realistic” shooters have their slow paced “tactical” combat, and they’re good at what they aim to do, so can we please keep Halo as the fast paced one-man-army style game that it has always been and that the fans have always loved? It should be obvious from the overwhelming cries of the community that we enjoy fast gameplay, so why slow the speed of the characters and decrease our height to limit where we can jump to?
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Grenades - Grenades really aren’t that bad, I believe the problem is that when someone throws it at your feet, even if you see it coming a mile away, there’s absolutely no getting away from it because of the slowed movement speed. Increase the movement speed and jump height and players who are quick to react will be able to get away to minimize the amount of damage received from the blast, rather than taking the full force of the explosion regardless of how quick they are to react. This is one of those little things that would improve the skill gap in Reach. Newer players will be slow to react or panic and take the massive mini-nuke-like damage. Veteran players will know exactly what to do and take half damage or less. Another little thing I would like tweaked about grenades is to reduce the spawning amount to 1. There’s no reason to have 8+ people running around with 2 grenades each with more on the map.
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Weapon Damage - Increase it. This also ties in with another huge problem I have with the game is that the AR is horribly HORRIBLY weak. In Team Classic where the damage is increased the AR is a viable weapon and heavily used in CQC, but in any other playlist because of the lower weapon damage and the shallow clip it takes virtually the entire magazine to kill a single player, and since the AR is an automatic weapon some missed shots are nearly guaranteed. This leads to switching weapons or reloading during a shootout which only further slows down gameplay. All weapons should be able to kill at least 2 players before needing to be reloaded. The only exception to this rule should be the AR because it is THE starting weapon of Halo. It’s simple to use, a perfect starting weapon for new players, and a deadly weapon in the hands of skilled players. It shouldn’t be nearly as weak as it is now, but obviously you shouldn’t be able to go around killing 2-3 people with one magazine from the weapon you spawn with or there would be no reason to pick up any other weapons. The AR should be able to kill a single player with 60-70% of the magazine if every bullet hits.
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Melees - Copy & Paste the melee damage from Team Classic to every other playlist in Reach. 1 melee hit taking away 100% of shields is just horrible. It should be 3 hits. Being 2 hits nearly every CQC battle devolves into running toward each other and hitting the melee button. I’m fairly sure this is because players realize it’s much faster than using nearly any other weapon at CQC, and that’s just not right. If you’re within melee range, yes, melee, that’s why it’s there, but players at in a CQC scenario but too far apart to melee should not be running through bullets to hit each other.
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Objective Credits - Bungie has done so much to encourage people to work as a team, so why give no credits for capturing an objective? This is one of the big reasons so many people sit around killing people and ignore the objective. In objective gametypes if a kill is worth +20 detonating a bomb or scoring a flag should be worth at least +150 and holding a hill or ball should be worth at least +2/sec. This would really promote working as a team and actually trying to complete the objective rather than sitting back and killing people from credits.
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Armor Lock - Those who use Armor Lock correctly use it for a split second of invulnerability (ex: Rockets are flying at me - AL for 1 sec - attack. A guy with sword is getting closer, shoot shoot shoot, he’s close - AL - attack). This is how Armor Lock should be used. Players who don’t use Armor Lock correctly or are horribly desperate not to die when they know they’re about to are the ones who hold it for the entire duration and this does nothing but slow down gameplay. Yes, yes, I’ve heard the arguments before that it’s tactical and it allows the person’s teammates to move to that location and rain hell on the person attacking, but while that may be true it’s also true that it slows things down quite a bit. When a player is about to earn a kill they should earn the kill and move on while the person dead waits in respawn for a few seconds and comes back. There should be no holding a button to delay the kill then coming back for round 2. This is another one of those problems that are incredibly easy to fix and I don’t know why Bungie hasn’t. If I was making the call I would give AL a 2sec duration with a 10sec recharge. This way it’s fine for a quick burst of invincibility if there happens to be a grenade under your feet or a rocket coming at your face, but it still requires a relative amount of skill to get the timing near perfect, and there’s no hiding in your shell after the event is over. You use the ability, and if done skillfully you will be successful in surviving and come out in mere seconds to fight your opponent on a level field. The 2sec duration will also prevent ALs from ruining multikills, and lets be honest, everyone LOVES multikills, it just feels great, but being robbed of a multikill you earned because some pressed a button to not die is very irritating. Another thing to change about AL - No EMP. Just no. It should not be there. Also, no frosting, it’s just a horrible idea. There have been various times where I’ll be waiting for someone to come out of AL after getting them down to no shields, they finally come out after I’ve been standing around doing nothing (completely ruining the perception of Halo being a fun fast paced game) and I shoot IMMEDIATELY as soon as I see that aura drop and magically they take no damage and I watch their shields come back up as I’m shooting them. Of course the whole time their shields are coming back up mine are being shot away so I end up dying to someone who I beat but then they held a button and magically I lose. I don’t think AL has to be removed, but heavily changed so it can’t be abused.
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Camo - Remove it or make the camo far less effective. I don’t see anything about it that promotes fast gameplay. People who use camo sit in a corner 100% invisible and wait for their victims to pass by. Yes, it may be tactical to sit invisible in a corner of your base to kill that person who’s coming to steal the flag, but it just makes the game slower and nobody likes to die to someone who’s sitting there completely invisible.
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Other AAs - Just to clear up any confusion that I might be one of those people who just hates all AAs, I actually do like them, I just don’t like AL or Camo how they are at the moment. Hologram doesn’t slow gameplay and is very tactical, jetpack is a huge advantage for getting around the map but leaves you as a giant target with no cover, sprint is just to get around faster or run away, etc. You see where I’m going with this. The reason I don’t like AL or Camo is because they both encourage or cause players to be immobile and that does not make for a fun game.
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Sword Clash - This should have never been in the game to begin with. Sword v Sword, fine, but Sword v arm? No. Why take a power weapon and make it not powerful? I can’t swing my arm and knock the shotgun bullets away from me, so why should I be able to with the covenant close-range power weapon when I can’t with the UNSC close-range power weapon? It’s meant to be powerful at only its 1 incredibly close range. Making it so anyone can counter the sword at its only range while being able to easily kill a player with it at any other range just makes it nearly useless.
I’m sure if I sat and thought about it some more I could come up with a few more problems I have with Reach, but these are the big ones that I believe desperately need to be changed. 343i, when you get control of Reach, please listen to the fans and fix these problems. Halo is meant to be fast-paced and Bungie has done everything to slow it and then seemingly turned their backs on the fans. I would hope I’m wrong in that aspect, but they don’t seem to talk about or change anything that players have a problem with. It’s like they’ve forgotten what made Halo so great in the first place in their quest to change up the formula.
> What is this? The only DMR and Bloom thread? Please talk about other aspects of the game besides bloom because people know about the DMR and Bloom. I would like to see other things discussed because the DMR bros(reaper and urza) keep talking about the DMR and Bloom.
It’s going to be talked about until there’s a fix, or a new game.
I’d prefer a fix.
> No where in this game or from the developers do they stress the fact that this is the right way and that you should only do it this way.
Carnage Carnivale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUv98eWVnL0&feature=related
See 0:22-0:30 for a quote from the Designer
See 1:18-1:38 for DMR segment w/ Designer, Engineer, and Executive Producer
This is the one and only thing Bungie has said about how to use the DMR.
Simply posted this for reference and clarification
>
first of all i’d like to thank you for putting such time and effort into making such a long post covering so many topics
i basically whole heartedly agree with almost everything youve said 100%. a few things i’d like to address are as follows:
> All weapons should be able to kill at least 2 players before needing to be reloaded. The only exception to this rule should be the AR because it is THE starting weapon of Halo.
i think, if you shoot at 90% accuracy (hitting 90% of your shots) you should be able to kill 2 people with a single AR clip. this would obviously have to be balanced in its kill times versus say, the new DMR/pistol/BR weapon so that it BEATS it at close range (with 90% accuracy) but it doesnt beat it by THAT MUCH if the person using the DMR/pistol/BR has 100% accuracy (and perfect cadence if bloom is implemented).
its basically atrocious right now where 1 clip kills 1 person, and if you miss, even a little bit, you will have to reload or switch weapons. the AR could REALLY use a small buff in my opinion.
> 1 melee hit taking away 100% of shields is just horrible. It should be 3 hits. Being 2 hits nearly every CQC battle devolves into running toward each other and hitting the melee button.
the problem with the current melee system isnt the number of hits it takes to kill someone IMO, its that melees dont bleed thru like they did in halos 1, 2, or 3. if we had bleedthru melees, people couldnt just run at you and smack you twice (altho im a firm believer that people sprinting should stop sprinting when they take damage, and are unable to sprint again for 2.5 seconds after the last damage they took [from enemies only]).
the 2 melee system has worked for EVERY halo game except for this one because of no-bleed. smacking someone twice has always felt right, and not ‘clunky’ like it feels in team classic / MLG. if no-bleed melees return, with the same sprint we have currently, im all for the 3 melee kills.
i also dont think team classic should be a 3 melee kill because the only real reason why it was bad for default reach was because of sprint. sprint is not in team classic, so running at someone for the double melee doesnt work at all because you can just walk backwards and they cant do anything with their melee only strategy lol. i’d actually advocate a 2 melee kill for this playlist (ONLY because it doesnt have AA’s, however). every playlist with sprint should absolutely be 3 melee kills in reach. it might feel more clunky that way, but at least you cant just sprint at people and melee them twice to remove the viability of shooting -some- of the time.
> Camo - Remove it or make the camo far less effective.
i dont think camo is that big of a deal right now to be honest. its pretty easy to predict where the person with camo is based on the ‘jamming’ of your radar.
honestly i could see the invisibility effect being completely removed (changing the AA altogether), and in its place make it so it ONLY jams the radar of people on the OTHER team and NOT YOU OR YOUR TEAM. this would be a very cool AA to use
> jetpack is a huge advantage for getting around the map but leaves you as a giant target with no cover
i disagree with jet pack being fine. for me the 2 armor abilities that are problematic and in need of being removed from every non-joke playlist are jet pack and armor lock. jet pack completely destroys the concept of ‘map control’ which has been a fundamental part of halo since halo CE. it is incredibly frustrating to see halo reach taken to the air as it has been in many maps in halo reach. map control is too big of a fundamental part of halo to lose to a silly armor ability such as this. its fine in multi team, or action sack, or griffball even, just keep it out of team slayer, team objective, team doubles, arena, and all of the other semi-competitive playlists please.
> sprint is just to get around faster or run away
like i said before, i dont think you should be able to just sprint away when you get outplayed. if sprint was implemented as a default ‘AA’ (even tho its really not lol), but made you stop sprinting when you took damage, and prevented you from sprinting for 2.5 seconds after the last bit of damage you took, you couldnt just run away every time you were down a shot or 2 in a DMR battle. i dont like that people can just run away when they get outplayed, it doesnt feel like halo at all.
> 11. Sword Clash
see, it doesnt make much sense, i’ll give you that, but for gameplay purposes its fantastic. the only other thing i could see the ‘sword clash’ being replaced with is a sword that glows EPIC blue wherever you are so you cant just camp random corners on the map with it. lets face it, using the sword to camp corners is INCREDIBLY easy. give the sword to a 8 year old kid who’s played call of duty, and teach him a few corners to move back and forth from, and watch him go on multiple killing sprees.
the sword block prevented this (to some extent) because now instead of it being
see dude camping corner / choke point you just ran thru with sword -> RAGE (DAMN SWORD) -> die
its
see dude camping corner / choke point you just ran thru with sword -> CLUTCH TIME?!? -> maybe block / probably die.
blocking the sword really doesnt do a whole helluva lot in the grand scheme of things anyways. if the person with the sword is using it properly, they will still be able to get massive killing sprees with ease with relatively little effort (mostly positioning that matters, skill plays very little part with this weapon).
one thing tho. the sword block needs to be MORE CONSISTENT! in halo reach its basically 100% random, with no rhyme or reason as to how to do it lol. this being said, it should still be HARD TO DO so the sword isnt completely useless. you should have to be looking DIRECTLY at the person trying to sword you for it to work, and you should have to melee within a .5 second time frame (or less).
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i agree with everything else in your posts :D. again, great job posting!!! im glad more smart people are coming to the forum!
> > No where in this game or from the developers do they stress the fact that this is the right way and that you should only do it this way.
>
> Carnage Carnivale
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUv98eWVnL0&feature=related
>
> See 0:22-0:30 for a quote from the Designer
> See 1:18-1:38 for DMR segment w/ Designer, Engineer, and Executive Producer
>
> This is the one and only thing Bungie has said about how to use the DMR.
>
> Simply posted this for reference and clarification
in case you dont wanna watch the video, the quote at 0:22 is
“2 men enter, the better man leaves. the lesser man is respawning, and thats halo”
-luke ‘lukems’ smith
which is NOT how it works in reach if someone is spamming.
the quotes at 1:18-1:38 is as follows
“the DMR is absolutely an awesome ‘worthy’ successor to the BR”
-joe tung
“you kind of get control over how accurate your shot is going to be. if youre spamming that trigger as fast as you can fire it, its gunna go ‘kinda wild’. if you are trying to hit a guy really really far away then you have to slow that down”
-jon cable
Thanks for the response. It’s nice to share ideas and see where mine fall short. I’ll just go down the list and respond to yours responses one by one:
AR - It would nice if the AR had the ability to kill 2 people with one magazine, but only if the user is extremely accurate. However, the problem I find with this is that the AR has such a shallow magazine that if that’s the case it will kill a single player incredibly fast. The only solution I could think of for this problem is to increase the amount of bullets per magazine. I’m not sure exactly how much the increase would be, I’m sure it would take some testing to find the perfect amount, but it’s doable and a good idea.
Melee - You make a great point. I don’t understand why Bungie changed the melee system in the first place when it worked so well in the previous games.
Camo - I just can’t stand the fact that this AA encourages people to sit in corners motionless. If the camo was removed and it became a radar jamming AA it would be much better and a great tool to use when rushing an enemy base with teammates so they don’t know what direction everyone is coming from.
Jetpack - You make another good point. Jetpack is semi-balanced in that while using it players are virtually defenseless, but it does ruin the idea of map control, and it allows players to completely ignore routes that the map creators intended them to use. With jetpack the map might as well be one huge plane.
Sprint - Again I love your ideas. Sprint is great for quickly getting to an objective or weapon, but it is annoying when players sprint in for a melee or sprint away from certain death. This would solve that problem and still make it an extremely useful AA.
Sword Clash - This is where I have to disagree. If there’s a sword clash in the game it’s only fair that we’re also able to clash with the gravity hammer and magically swat away the blast from a shotgun. I don’t understand why Bungie chose to nerf only one of the three close-range power weapons. If someone camps a corner with the sword then ya, it sucks, but that’s really more of a problem with camping than with the sword. People can just as easily camp in a corner with shotgun, gravity hammer, rockets, or even just sit there and smack someone as they walk by.
If you have any more ideas I’d love to hear them. It’s nice to see the 30min I took typing out that huge response didn’t go unread and I enjoy bouncing ideas off of people who don’t see things in only black and white (ie AL is fine leave it, AL sucks remove it, etc.)
> Thanks for the response. It’s nice to share ideas and see where mine fall short. I’ll just go down the list and respond to yours responses one by one:
no problem dude im always super stoked to see more intelligent people coming over here from the bungie forums. on the bungie forums it seems like no one really has any idea what they are talking about. we really only have a handful of people on this forum that ive seen (less than five for sure) that defend things like bloom and armor lock that are clearly broken by most peoples standards. protip: if you run into someone arguing that bloom is ‘fine’ as it is, just ask them why its BETTER for the person who shoots technically worse (full auto spamming) to win a 1v1 DMR-only battle. they’ll stop arguing with you INSTANTLY at that point (works 100% lol).
> [AR tweaking]
yea it would take some doin’, but it could definitely be done. they have a LOT of different things to tweak to make it balanced, so its really just a matter of setting the kill time you want for the weapon, then using math to tweak the variables. these include rate of fire, damage, accuracy, bloom reset rate, max bloom, and clip size. the AR in reach is basically awesome as far as shooting goes with its bloom and what not. the problem / things that need tweaked are the clip size, damage, and rate of fire to make it kill 2 people with 90% accuracy like i said.
> Sword Clash - This is where I have to disagree. If there’s a sword clash in the game it’s only fair that we’re also able to clash with the gravity hammer and magically swat away the blast from a shotgun.
well, i think its good to have diversity in the weapons. if the map or the forger decide they dont want people blocking their close combat weapon they could use the hammer, or for a bit less range they could use the shotgun. the sword can be used as a close combat weapon for maps that have a lot of choke points (spots where it can be easily abused). the shotgun could be used in spots where there are choke points, but if you maneuver correctly / optimally you can get around someone camping with it. the hammer can be used for maps that are more wide open due to its range. different weapons for different maps i guess :P. the sword block really isnt a problem in that its only nerfed for one weapon because it opens up more diversity in the close quarters gun you would want to use for different maps / settings / gametypes yanno?
> but that’s really more of a problem with camping than with the sword. People can just as easily camp in a corner with shotgun, gravity hammer, rockets, or even just sit there and smack someone as they walk by.
well, the problem is people will often times use weapons optimally, and if they do, it really turns off a lot of the fun for the game. the best example of this is someone camping random corners with the sword / shotgun / hammer (or rockets but they could easily be transversing the map so its basically stupid of them to camp with them lol).
think of it this way: a lot of people REALLY do NOT like sword base as a map. the reason behind this is most likely because of how easy it is to ‘set up’ in and camp, especially in certain areas like the top (yellow lift room and area around it).
you cant really say the problem with this map is people playing it optimally, the problem really lies in the maps design. you can literally lock down the entire sword base map with 2 people in the doubles playlist. im not talking about 2 spots that are good, or above average, im talking about 2 spots that if you stand in them, with power weapons, you basically win the game unless you EPIC CHOKE. they are more like ‘god spots’ or a ‘god-tier setup’ than just powerful spots to be in. if sword base had more routes / lifts / teleporters that lead to the top of sword base, the top floor would not be nearly as powerful as it currently is in reach. even if it was just one teleporter that led from the bottom (protected, not out in the open) to the top of the ‘attic’, it would fix 99% of the camping problem on that map, and make it a LOT less problematic.
the same concept is basically true with weapons too. its not the players fault they are using their weapons optimally, its the game designers fault for making them so horribly. dont get me wrong, im not advocating the complete removal of the sword / shotgun / hammer from matchmaking (cept maybe super competitive halo like arena, and especially doubles), im merely saying that if the sword retains the sword block, it will give people a chance to actually be able to defend themselves against the camp random corners tactic. the sword would then become more of a instant adrenaline boost in hopes of pulling off that clutch sword block instead of it being an instant rage boost because you know you are dead (cant do anything to get out of said situation almost ever) and you know they put almost no effort into the kill, besides moving from 1 random corner to the next, and waiting.
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keep posting bro spread your intelligence! dont let this forum turn into the plague that is the bungie forums :C
You make a good point about sword clash opening the door for different close-range weapons for different style maps, and when you put it that way it makes sword clash seem like a good thing. Maybe I was wrong to judge sword clash so harshly, but I don’t think those weapons were designed poorly. If you go so far as to argue that sword/shotgun/hammer are poorly designed because they perform so well in CQC (the only range where they’re even remotely effective), which encourages camping, then you could just as easily expand it to any other game with a CQC weapon and maps that aren’t flat planes completely void of corners. The way I see it as long as there are CQC weapons there will always be people who camp with them, no matter how well they’re designed. The developers can either recognize that and try to make the maps so they don’t encourage camping (something Bungie failed at with a few maps including Sword Base) or remove every CQC weapon from the game. So I’ll have to agree that some maps are poorly designed in that they encourage camping, but disagree that the CQC weapons are what’s poorly designed.
> You make a good point about sword clash opening the door for different close-range weapons for different style maps, and when you put it that way it makes sword clash seem like a good thing. Maybe I was wrong to judge sword clash so harshly, but I don’t think those weapons were designed poorly. If you go so far as to argue that sword/shotgun/hammer are poorly designed because they perform so well in CQC (the only range where they’re even remotely effective), which encourages camping, then you could just as easily expand it to any other game with a CQC weapon and maps that aren’t flat planes completely void of corners. The way I see it as long as there are CQC weapons there will always be people who camp with them, no matter how well they’re designed. The developers can either recognize that and try to make the maps so they don’t encourage camping (something Bungie failed at with a few maps including Sword Base) or remove every CQC weapon from the game. So I’ll have to agree that some maps are poorly designed in that they encourage camping, but disagree that the CQC weapons are what’s poorly designed.
i agree. most of the problem with people camping random choke points are that the choke points are HUGE in that you basically are forced to transverse thru them if you want to get to a different area of the map. a good example of this is countdown going from where the concussion rifle spawns (top of the middle ‘tri-lift’ area) to the top floor of the map. there are 2 doorways there that are super choke points. because of this you will see people grenading the heck out of these 2 spots, and hiding around the corner there with the shotgun / sword often too.
this spot isnt THAT problematic per se, because its a pretty obvious strategy so people will encounter it with more caution so they’ll be ready for shenanegans to happen at said choke point.
the CQC weapons arent super poorly designed IMO. they still need tweaking for sure. the hammer is the only one that really feels ‘correct’ like its in a good place right now. you cant block it so it serves that purpose that the sword currently doesnt (so you can switch it out easily plus you get a nice and satisfying BOOM! when you hit people lol). the shotgun could probably use a range nerf so you cant snipe people with it. its kinda frustrating to encounter someone inevitably camping a random corner with the shotgun, juke the heck out of him in one way or another with your pro movement / shotgun dodging prowess, get far enough out of his range that he cant 1 shot you, just to have him fire off 3 more pop shots and basically snipe you with the shotgun from 10 feet away lol. i’d like to see the shotgun placed in CQC ONLY so that it has maybe a TAD bit more range for a 1 shot kill (like 5% more from the reach shotgun), has an additional 20% range after the 1 shot kill range for 20% of the damage, then does 0 damage for everything after that. with that change it would be well placed for close combat without being able to snipe people when they juke you and get out of its range.
they basically need to anticipate people playing optimally (camping random corners) and make it so if you are pro enough you can actually survive provided that you pull some super clutch moves to get out of the situation, on top of making maps that dont have incredibly easy choke points to lock down.