Title Update Discussion

Games Other Halo
781

I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.

Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.

Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:

782

> I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.
>
> Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.
>
> Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8

bloom isnt the problem. bloom is a concept / definition, so it cannot be ‘broken’. the implementation of bloom in halo reach’s DMR and, to a lesser extent, NR, IS broken, however.

if you are at close-mid range (up until your reticule covers half of their spartan), spamming is actually OPTIMAL till you get the first 4 hits, then headshot after that. because of this, every single battle of this range is determined by whomever gets lucky, not given to the person who did a better job aiming, using cadence, or actually trying to maintain 100% accuracy.

bloom itself is a REALLY cool concept to add both skill gap AND depth into halo reach. it does add a bit of skill gap, not much, but a little bit. it doesnt add depth at all (to DMR vs DMR battles). the thing it adds the most, however, is a random factor that is 100% unneeded because it doesnt add anything of value.

783

> > I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.
> >
> > Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.
> >
> > Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8
>
> bloom itself is a REALLY cool concept to add both skill gap AND depth into halo reach. it does add a bit of skill gap, not much, but a little bit. it doesnt add depth at all (to DMR vs DMR battles). the thing it adds the most, however, is a random factor that is 100% unneeded because it doesnt add anything of value.

Sorry, but bloom adds no such skill gap you talk about, it removes the skill gap. DMR fights at close range are just spam fests and while the better play may have an advantage at strafing, the lesser player can get a few lucky shots in because of the bloom and may win the fight. Lesser players got trashed on in close range BR battles in H2 and H3, because aiming and firing actually went together and shots landed where you wanted them to.

784

> > > I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.
> > >
> > > Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.
> > >
> > > Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8
> >
> > bloom itself is a REALLY cool concept to add both skill gap AND depth into halo reach. it does add a bit of skill gap, not much, but a little bit. it doesnt add depth at all (to DMR vs DMR battles). the thing it adds the most, however, is a random factor that is 100% unneeded because it doesnt add anything of value.
>
> Sorry, but bloom adds no such skill gap you talk about, it removes the skill gap. DMR fights at close range are just spam fests and while the better play may have an advantage at strafing, the lesser player can get a few lucky shots in because of the bloom and may win the fight. Lesser players got trashed on in close range BR battles in H2 and H3, because aiming and firing actually went together and shots landed where you wanted them to.

You guys know.

Bloom for precision weapons = worst thing to happen to Halo since SMG starts. /fact

785

> > > I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.
> > >
> > > Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.
> > >
> > > Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8
> >
> > bloom itself is a REALLY cool concept to add both skill gap AND depth into halo reach. it does add a bit of skill gap, not much, but a little bit. it doesnt add depth at all (to DMR vs DMR battles). the thing it adds the most, however, is a random factor that is 100% unneeded because it doesnt add anything of value.
>
> Sorry, but bloom adds no such skill gap you talk about, it removes the skill gap. DMR fights at close range are just spam fests and while the better play may have an advantage at strafing, the lesser player can get a few lucky shots in because of the bloom and may win the fight. Lesser players got trashed on in close range BR battles in H2 and H3, because aiming and firing actually went together and shots landed where you wanted them to.

i said it adds a BIT of skill gap (when people arent spamming is where the added skill gap comes in). meaning, not very much, but a little.

i completely agree with you, were on the same page.

> > > > I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.
> > > >
> > > > Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.
> > > >
> > > > Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:
> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8
> > >
> > > bloom itself is a REALLY cool concept to add both skill gap AND depth into halo reach. it does add a bit of skill gap, not much, but a little bit. it doesnt add depth at all (to DMR vs DMR battles). the thing it adds the most, however, is a random factor that is 100% unneeded because it doesnt add anything of value.
> >
> > Sorry, but bloom adds no such skill gap you talk about, it removes the skill gap. DMR fights at close range are just spam fests and while the better play may have an advantage at strafing, the lesser player can get a few lucky shots in because of the bloom and may win the fight. Lesser players got trashed on in close range BR battles in H2 and H3, because aiming and firing actually went together and shots landed where you wanted them to.
>
> You guys know.
>
> Bloom for precision weapons = worst thing to happen to Halo since SMG starts. /fact

worst thing to happen to halo is bungie making the game for people who just want to shoot things, fly around, and see explosions, instead of making it for the people who actually know whats going on.

bloom isnt a bad idea, its just implemented terribly in halo reach. if bloom made spamming absolutely ATROCIOUS at EVERY RANGE cept like… point blank… it would be an AWESOME addition to the game. unfortunately for all of us, the thing that it adds most of is a random factor that isnt needed, doesnt help anyone, and doesnt add to the game at all.

786

I’m pretty sure Bungie just couldn’t fix Reach. 343 and Bungie were probably going to switch from the day the game came out, and maybe Bungie just couldn’t legealy do it or something? I don’t know.

I still love Bungie over 343 anyways :slight_smile:

787

> I’m pretty sure Bungie just couldn’t fix Reach. 343 and Bungie were probably going to switch from the day the game came out, and maybe Bungie just couldn’t legealy do it or something? I don’t know.
>
>
> I still love Bungie over 343 anyways :slight_smile:

dont kid yourself. they not only could fix reach, they are also easily better for the job in doing so because they created the game. its all about the $$$$$$$$$ involved in patching. since they patching will take a dent out of the bungie stash, they wont do it because they cant be 100% sure that it will make them more $ in the long run.

788

> I’m pretty sure Bungie just couldn’t fix Reach. 343 and Bungie were probably going to switch from the day the game came out, and maybe Bungie just couldn’t legealy do it or something? I don’t know.
>
>
> I still love Bungie over 343 anyways :slight_smile:

I sincerely doubt that. Bungie most likely had the power to make a TU. However they think they’re infalliable, and they don’t want to spend $$$$$$$.

789

> > I’m pretty sure Bungie just couldn’t fix Reach. 343 and Bungie were probably going to switch from the day the game came out, and maybe Bungie just couldn’t legealy do it or something? I don’t know.
> >
> >
> > I still love Bungie over 343 anyways :slight_smile:
>
> I sincerely doubt that. Bungie most likely had the power to make a TU. However they think they’re infalliable, and they don’t want to spend $$$$$$$.

Ive always believed that Bungie had the ability to create a TU but since they understood from the very completion of Halo: Reach that they would eventually pass the torch to 343 industries. Which lead to them deciding to hold off until everything could fall into 343i hands in which 343i can invision their own Title Update that would perfect Halo: Reach gameplay for many years to come.

In a recent interview with mah boy Frankie O Con Con, he stated that “Halo: Reach is the kind of game that lives forever right?” Halo 2 lasted literally forever, after its title update and its population never died until it was taken off of Xbox Live. Hopefully all this time that has passed since launch will be the best thing that could ever happen to this game since 343i has had more than enough time to create a dialed in and balanced Reach experience that the community itself has invisioned over the many months of kicking and screaming on the Bungie forums and now 343i forums. I have a feeling the community is in for a bigger surprise than we could all imagine.

790

> I really don’t understand how there could be Bloom supporters out there. It is completely broken in close range DMR duels. The spammer gets rewarded the majority of the time. That’s unfair to the pacer. Bloom also makes it more difficult to get the last headshot on a kill. It’s just an awful addition to the game.
>
> Better solution is just to remove the Bloom on the precision weapons like the NR, Pistol, and DMR. The only thing that needs altered after it is removed is the rate of fire on the guns.
>
> Just watch this youtube to see what it would be like without Bloom:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8

Ya know I love this argument so much. What honestly makes you believe that in a close range DMR fight that the person who shoots slower should take precedence over someone shooting faster? This is completely idiotic that people think you HAVE to pace your shots in every situation and battle. Bloom is there so Halo Reach is not being played from the 2 bases of Hemorrhage. If bloom didnt exist you could get a 5 shot with the DMR across the map in a second.

Bloom adds in a risk-assessment factor. If someone is so close to you that the expanded reticule is the same as that as the enemy, then you should fire as fast as possible. Its skill not luck or some random act. In so you are getting in and out of a engagement faster to either A)survive the engagement, or B)finish the engagement and start another.

Now it you are more than 10 meters away you will not benefit from spamming shots. You need to know how fast you can shoot, and when it will benefit you and put you at a disadvantage.

791

Bloom adds randomness and slows the game down. It needs to be removed.

792

I dunno if it’s just me but Bungie has made every Halo game play ‘‘slower’’

793

> If bloom didnt exist you could get a 5 shot with the DMR across the map in a second.

That’s why the solution would be to alter the rate of fire with the DMR. I would make it so that it shot at a speed similar to the BR of H2/3. It would be very powerful if it still had its current speed without bloom. But with a slower fire rate it would be just fine.

794

> > A) There’s nothing to fix
> >
> > and
> >
> > B) If you ever actually took the time to read Bungie’s messages (BWU), then you would know that they’ve been working on a major multiplayer update for quite some time now.
> >
> > And don’t make up rumors. It doesn’t make you look cool.
>
> from a competitive standpoint this game is the most broken mess I’ve witnessed

It’s better than most of the other FPS’s on the market right now.

I was hoping that 343’s forums would actually have constructive arguments, not raging people like in the bungie forums, but I guess I was wrong. Also, if you’re going to complain so much, this is more the reason to ignore you.

795

I mean heres the thing, without bloom weapons like the assault rifle and plasma repeater would become horrifyingly broken at short-mid range, the DMR and Needle rifle would make maps like hemhorrage and paradiso even more campy, and the pistol would return to its halo CE days of glory.

Actually, i’d like to see how that would play out. If everything’s broken… nothing is. Someone make this happen for a day.

796

> I mean heres the thing, without bloom weapons like the assault rifle and plasma repeater would become horrifyingly broken at short-mid range, the DMR and Needle rifle would make maps like hemhorrage and paradiso even more campy, and the pistol would return to its halo CE days of glory.
>
> Actually, i’d like to see how that would play out. If everything’s broken… nothing is. Someone make this happen for a day.

Well each weapon has a different rate for the bloom so the coding should be weapon specific, theoretically you should be able to alter the bloom for the DMR but keep the Pistols bloom the same.

797

I shoot the M-4 Carbine in real life. 5.56MM NATO round. Equipped with an EOTech holographic sight and iron sights. The real world equivelant to a DMR.

If you are within real world handgun range of me I’m not even going to use my sights, I’m going to look down the barrel and press the trigger as fast as I can. If you take the time to use your sight or your optics in real life in that situation you’ll lose.

If you’re beyond handgun range I’ll use my sights.

Bloom is fine. The problem is 99% of the people who play Reach have never fired a real firearm in their life, they’re used to Halo 3 making it easy on them.

Real life guns, you don’t use sights and you fire as fast as you can in close range battles. You only use sights and pace your firing when shooting at a distance.

798

> Ya know I love this argument so much. What honestly makes you believe that in a close range DMR fight that the person who shoots slower should take precedence over someone shooting faster? This is completely idiotic that people think you HAVE to pace your shots in every situation and battle.

right, but the person who shoots better should absolutely win 100% of the time. if you just mash the R trigger you should not get kills at any range, ever, because you are completely ignoring the mechanic. in halo reach close range DMR-only battles, when played optimally, are coin flips. it ends up being whichever person gets lucky and hits the first 4 spammed shots first, then headshot afterwards. we want it to be the person who shoots better wins 100% of the time, because thats intuitive, good shooting mechanics for a primary weapon spawn. anything else is suboptimal.

> Bloom is there so Halo Reach is not being played from the 2 bases of Hemorrhage. If bloom didnt exist you could get a 5 shot with the DMR across the map in a second.

bloom could be tweaked, it doesnt have to be removed like some will suggest. if bloom WAS removed, however, it would probably come with a decrease in max shooting speed. if max bloom was increased by 100%, combined with a proportionally faster ‘bloom reset rate’, the DMR would be a billion times better than it is now, and have 0% luck factor like it currently does.

> Bloom adds in a risk-assessment factor. If someone is so close to you that the expanded reticule is the same as that as the enemy, then you should fire as fast as possible. Its skill not luck or some random act.

false. it absolutely is luck-based shooting when someone is spamming. not only that, spamming, like i said before, is actually optimal at close range. there is no reason for it to have a ‘risk assessment’ factor (which basically just means pace and hopefully they wont get lucky). luck doesnt add anything of value to the game. not one single thing.

the way the DMR is currently also doesnt benefit anyone in 1v1 DMR-only battles when someone is spamming. it doesnt benefit spammers because they lose a LOT more than they win against pacers. it doesnt benefit pacers because even tho they are using mechanics properly, they can still get beat by the person making absolutely no attempt at using them properly (which makes literally no sense).

799

Remove bloom, all it does is slow down the gameplay = make it boring, and add randomness = make it frustrating.

Worst addition to Halo. /fact

800

> Remove bloom, all it does is slow down the gameplay = make it boring, and add randomness = make it frustrating.
>
> Worst addition to Halo. /fact

Not fact.

Bloom does not slow down gameplay. It gives the player a choice, and adds depth to using the weapons.

The DMR has an ideal rate of fire. Rather than lock the gun to that rate of fire, Bungie gave the player the option to fire faster, but sacrifice some accuracy in the process. There is nothing random about it. The accuracy of the DMR is completely under your control.