Title Update Discussion

This Post is for Ideas Implemented by the community and will be edited frequently over time.

Game Play Mechanic Customization: One thing that has been discussed and is a dream while not really a feasible reality is the idea of having complete control of every possible game mechanic from the changing of Halo Reach’s grenade system EXE: Options to increase or decrease both damage and blast radius to the totally absurd idea that developers should remove bloom from the game completely.

My proposal for one aspect of a potential title update for Halo Reach is just to add even more flexibility for the custom game developers out there that create not only competitive game types but in the long run build complete communities of gamers with preference over competitiveness or just an overall fun experience. This factor (or experience in my own words) is what Halo brings to the table. No other AAA title that I know of for the Xbox 360 has these options and this factor should be utilized even more then what Bungie has brought us over the years.

  1. Grenades: my main example (time to explosion,blast radius, and potentially damage)

Reason: I for one and many other feel that the blast radius is to big and a fix for both sides of the argument is to create an option to change this.

Fighting Argument: The blast radius isn’t to big its actually how much damage the grenades do with comparison to the Weapon Damage Modifier.

My Response: Differentiate the two modifier mechanics and have one for grenades one for weapons so as to not potentially break the game with an Over Powered weapon.

  1. Armor Ability Usage Time: idea by competitive & casual gamers alike
    (increments of time that are adjustable for sprint, jetpack ect…)

Reason: Prevention method of abusive styles of play exe: abusive sprinting

Fighting Argument: It’s the way the game was made so deal with it.

My Response: There can always be a Title Update we have seen it in the past.

I don’t recall Bungie ever saying there may be a title update for Reach. If you can link it that’d be great. Plenty of people on the B.net forums are asking for it, but I doubt it will happen. There is nothing gamebreaking in Reach. There are a couple small things that could be tweaked, but I think the majority of the problems in Reach stem from the poor playlist implementation and lack of quick updates to simple issues.

> I don’t recall Bungie ever saying there may be a title update for Reach. If you can link it that’d be great. Plenty of people on the B.net forums are asking for it, but I doubt it will happen. There is nothing gamebreaking in Reach. There are a couple small things that could be tweaked, but I think the majority of the problems in Reach stem from the poor playlist implementation and lack of quick updates to simple issues.

i disagree. the mechanics in reach are so bad, myself, a halo player who has RELIGIOUSLY played halo since CE has stopped playing halo altogether.

i’d say the following things are ‘game breaking’, being the main reasons why i stopped playing:

1.) DMR algorithm. the person who shoots better should win 100% of the time. its not even remotely close to that in halo reach. in every single other halo game thats how it was, and with good reason too. there is literally not a SINGLE REASON why its BETTER the way it is in reach. im not talking about removing bloom, im talking about tweaking it so that if you spam it like a clown, you lose 100% of the time. spamming doesnt benefit a single person either, in 1v1 DMR-only battles. it adds frustration to players who are competent enough to tell when they are getting beat by it, and mystery to newer players who dont know how to use their primary weapon spawn. shooting should be straight forward, and its not. because of that we have a GRIP of people who do nothing but mash their R triggers, for success. it adds more of a RANDOM factor than actual skill gap (it adds some skill gap, but it adds 10x more random factor, especially if everyone knows how to use it because spamming is actually optimal for the first 4 hits in a lot of ranges, effectively making every battle at those ranges a coin flip if its DMR-only). the only ‘depth’ that it adds is ‘oh, by the way, even if you shoot better this clown can still win if he mashes his R trigger simply because he got lucky’, and i wouldnt exactly call that ‘depth’ at all. its horrible, to say the very least. this alone is the main reason why i quit playing halo reach.

2.) grenades are MINI NUKES. seriously. it used to be grenades were tools to AID in players getting kills, to be used in a few key situations like when you could predict movement because players that see you throwing a grenade could actually be pro and dodge them often times. in reach, they are literally the first thing you use if you dont have a power weapon the VAST majority of the time. not only are they SIMPLE to use, they are also damn-near IMPOSSIBLE to dodge. it used to be grenade skill mattered in halo, now it doesnt. anyone and their mother can throw a mini nuke, and heck, they will actually KILL YOU from FULL SHIELDS now (if you have a bit of health missing).

3.) no bleed melees make absolutely no sense whatsoever. ive heard it all in defense of this, everything from ‘lore and realism’ (LOL) to players having to ‘guess’ how much they have to shoot before its a 1 smack kill. no-bleed melees are literally one of the most unintuitive game mechanics i have ever seen in a FPS game, straight up. now instead of seeing someone in close combat and shooting / trying to damage them straight away, you have to be knowledgeable as to if shooting is even VIABLE in the first place to get ahead or benefit you in any way, shape, or form. it turns melee combat into a constant guessing game if you plan on trying to shoot to get ahead. alternatively, of course, you can always just wait for the sprinting double derp clown to get within melee range then go from there (which is hilarious, if you think about it).

4.) armor abilities. every. single. one. is horribly implemented. sprint is widely used, and its actually one of the more broken ones. get outplayed? run away. any competent halo player will tell you straight away that chasing people is a TERRIBLE idea, ESPECIALLY in halo reach because if theyve shot you… what… 2 times with a DMR a single grenade is a kill! good luck chasing thru a mini nuke laid behind the person escaping at the main choke point / doorway that he ran thru. then you have armor lock, that is straight up BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED, not even close to being debatable. evade is SUPER fun, but its stronger than all of the other armor abilities by 10x if you actually know how to use it even remotely well. invis is just horrible when you are using it against good players. its basically like telling them exactly where you are (seriously, who would want to tell a good player where you are?). hologram is 100% useless when compared to the other armor abilities, not even close. bubble takes about a billion clips to actually pop, and it doesnt really serve a single purpose in the game (other than making objective games with 1 smack melee kills with the objective a nightmare). then jet pack just completely and totally removes the word ‘map control’ from every single map / gametype combination that its a part of outside of MAYBE sword base (an already awful map that jet pack makes sense in because its so broken).

in short, every single one of the games core game mechanics are horrible. if i could play halo 2 online, myself, and about a million other people would probably rather be playing that. i should probably go re-buy halo 3 (my disc scratched :C) since i kinda miss playing halo every once and awhile, but halo reach just makes me want to see sparks fly with the reach disk in my microwave.

> i disagree. the mechanics in reach are so bad, myself, a halo player who has RELIGIOUSLY played halo since CE has stopped playing halo altogether.

and the world thanks you so much!!! Look man I get it you dont like the game and you dont play it! Then why do you spend so much effort into the whining in here!!! Like I get it man!! I play the hell out of reach or well I used to ! but i dont play it to be competitive i play to laugh and have fun! However I enjoy the game for more then just multiplayer however I also i agree it was pooped on by bungie almost like they just wanted to to let loose and try whatever they felt like regardless of if it went with the rest of the cannon! I get all that! but whats with the constantly rainign on everyones parade! just go play something else and enjoy

> > i disagree. the mechanics in reach are so bad, myself, a halo player who has RELIGIOUSLY played halo since CE has stopped playing halo altogether.
>
> and the world thanks you so much!!! Look man I get it you dont like the game and you dont play it! Then why do you spend so much effort into the whining in here!!! Like I get it man!! I play the hell out of reach or well I used to ! but i dont play it to be competitive i play to laugh and have fun! However I enjoy the game for more then just multiplayer however I also i agree it was pooped on by bungie almost like they just wanted to to let loose and try whatever they felt like regardless of if it went with the rest of the cannon! I get all that! but whats with the constantly rainign on everyones parade! just go play something else and enjoy

i spend so much effort because i care about the game a great deal. halo has always been my #1 game to play. i grew up learning how to excel at halo. it is natural for most people to strive for mastery. for me, i worked very hard to get good at halo. im not one of those players who just plays to have fun, dont get me wrong i play for fun (or used to, i dont play reach because its not fun), i play for fun AND mastery. not only do i think about what i could do better every single time i died, i also think about what i could do better WHEN I GET KILLS TOO. sometimes its just shooting better, but a lot of the time its positioning, and incorperating trick jumps, etc. into my kills.

i have always had a great deal of satisfaction from knowing that all of my hard work pays off. in reach, however, all of my hard work means very little. everyone can throw mini nukes to get kills, people can flail around with shooting and just mash the R trigger to get kills, the melee system is horrible, and armor abilities are all horribly implemented (every single one).

halo used to be the ‘golden triangle’

now its the ‘brown square’ because bungie dumped all over the game. im not raining on anyones parade. if you like the game thats fine. i dont like the game and im vocal about it. if my ‘hating’ on reach is enough to make your mood alter in the slightest, you should probably re-consider your time spent on the forum.

Yes,I hope 343 fix reach :slight_smile: Anyway,I really like reach,but like all games,It is not perfect
And about the melee system,I like it better in reach then halo 3.
Halo 2>Halo Reach>Halo 3

The story could have done better.

> Yes,I hope 343 fix reach :slight_smile: Anyway,I really like reach,but like all games,It is not perfect
> And about the melee system,I like it better in reach then halo 3.
> Halo 2>Halo Reach>Halo 3

why did you like it better in reach than in halo 3? what does the reach melee system do better than the halo 3 system?

Hitscan > Bullet Travel
Halo 3 Melee > Halo Reach Melee
Bleed Through > Reach
Static Aim > Bloom

> Hitscan > Bullet Travel
> Halo 3 Melee > Halo Reach Melee
> Bleed Through > Reach
> Static Aim > Bloom

This is how every real Halo veteran thinks.

Reach = Fixing what wasn’t broken.

Just reminding you guys why:
Hitscan = Better than Bullet Travel, less blood shots on laggy conditions, but if the netcode is amazing, then bullet travel is welcome.
Halo CE/2/3 Melee Bleed Through = The players with the most health would always win a simultaneous beat down (H3 patched melee system), no kill trading, promoted more shooting.
Static Reticles (For precision weapons) = Promotes faster gameplay, the player with better aim wins, no luck factor, less frustraiting, looks better <3.
It’d be pretty cool if grenades wouldn’t bleed through shields, not for plasmas, because they have always been considered powerful grenades that you get from the map.

Or then 343i could just make a new game with the things I mentioned above.

> We all now know Bungie are ignoring the communitys crys for the gameplay to be changed. I just hope when you’re “handed the keys”, you will see things differently.
>
> I’m not going indepth about the problems. We all know what they are.

Well, that’s a bit of a leap to make, don’t you think? Bungie’s forums have been filled with the same arguments about armor abilities, bloom, etc, for months now. This tells me that for every person who thinks there is a problem, there is another person who disagrees with them.

With Reach, it is very clear to me that Bungie shipped the game they wanted to ship. They are “ignoring” the community’s cry’s for gameplay changes because:

a) nobody in the community agrees on everything

b) In bungie’s eyes, nothing needs changing.

Bungie made some design choices that have become controversial with the community, but the same thing happened with Halo 3, and Halo 2.

All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t expect 343 to suddenly start tearing apart and re-building Reach as soon as they have full control over it.

> > We all now know Bungie are ignoring the communitys crys for the gameplay to be changed. I just hope when you’re “handed the keys”, you will see things differently.
> >
> > I’m not going indepth about the problems. We all know what they are.
>
> Well, that’s a bit of a leap to make, don’t you think? Bungie’s forums have been filled with the same arguments about armor abilities, bloom, etc, for months now. This tells me that for every person who thinks there is a problem, there is another person who disagrees with them.
>
> With Reach, it is very clear to me that Bungie shipped the game they wanted to ship. They are “ignoring” the community’s cry’s for gameplay changes because:
>
> a) nobody in the community agrees on everything
>
> b) In bungie’s eyes, nothing needs changing.
>
> Bungie made some design choices that have become controversial with the community, but the same thing happened with Halo 3, and Halo 2.
>
> All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t expect 343 to suddenly start tearing apart and re-building Reach as soon as they have full control over it.

Bungie never had the ability to make title updates so all they can change are gametypes, it’s not that they’re ignoring it, it’s just that they can’t change it. Although I must commend Jermiah’s effort for matchmaking. I’ll be honest, I’m not sure if 343 can do as good with matchmaking as Jermiah has.

> > We all now know Bungie are ignoring the communitys crys for the gameplay to be changed. I just hope when you’re “handed the keys”, you will see things differently.
> >
> > I’m not going indepth about the problems. We all know what they are.
>
> Well, that’s a bit of a leap to make, don’t you think? Bungie’s forums have been filled with the same arguments about armor abilities, bloom, etc, for months now. This tells me that for every person who thinks there is a problem, there is another person who disagrees with them.
>
> With Reach, it is very clear to me that Bungie shipped the game they wanted to ship. They are “ignoring” the community’s cry’s for gameplay changes because:
>
> a) nobody in the community agrees on everything
>
> b) In bungie’s eyes, nothing needs changing.
>
> Bungie made some design choices that have become controversial with the community, but the same thing happened with Halo 3, and Halo 2.
>
> All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t expect 343 to suddenly start tearing apart and re-building Reach as soon as they have full control over it.

except, people that think bloom needs to be tweaked can actually tell you that there isnt a single person that will be able to tell you why its BETTER the way it is over a way that makes it so that if you just mash the R trigger it wont work.

they also wont be able to argue with the fact that the average halo player, and everyone better doesnt benefit from spamming in the least.

so… its not better, no one benefits, but they still think its fine. which basically equates to ‘its better because i say so’.

game developers shouldnt look at the people who are terrible at their game for ‘words of wisdom’ or some opinion to consider. they should look at the people who actually have some semblance of an idea whats going on. not only will the casual gamers literally have no idea whats going on if things were changed (just like they dont have any idea whats going on now) they would defend the new changes to the teeth too, simply because it has ‘halo’ in the title and bungie made it.

No weekly update this week on Bungie.net
Reach is going down

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=31451

> Forums are a slightly different story. I’ve been threatening Frankie with a plan to pump the raging river of Reach posts directly into the gentle waters of halo.xbox.com.

> That’s it for this week’s update. In fact, that’s it for this and the next two Friday’s worth. My travels will take me far away from this weekly affair, and sadly there’s no one else to sit in my filthy chair and make words for your reading pleasure. I’ll be with you in spirit, though. We’re going to get through this. Together.
>
> Talk to you soon. Ish.

> > > We all now know Bungie are ignoring the communitys crys for the gameplay to be changed. I just hope when you’re “handed the keys”, you will see things differently.
> > >
> > > I’m not going indepth about the problems. We all know what they are.
> >
> > Well, that’s a bit of a leap to make, don’t you think? Bungie’s forums have been filled with the same arguments about armor abilities, bloom, etc, for months now. This tells me that for every person who thinks there is a problem, there is another person who disagrees with them.
> >
> > With Reach, it is very clear to me that Bungie shipped the game they wanted to ship. They are “ignoring” the community’s cry’s for gameplay changes because:
> >
> > a) nobody in the community agrees on everything
> >
> > b) In bungie’s eyes, nothing needs changing.
> >
> > Bungie made some design choices that have become controversial with the community, but the same thing happened with Halo 3, and Halo 2.
> >
> > All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t expect 343 to suddenly start tearing apart and re-building Reach as soon as they have full control over it.
>
> Bungie never had the ability to make title updates so all they can change are gametypes, it’s not that they’re ignoring it, it’s just that they can’t change it. Although I must commend Jermiah’s effort for matchmaking. I’ll be honest, I’m not sure if 343 can do as good with matchmaking as Jermiah has.

Of course Bungie had the ability to do a title update… they just didn’t feel Reach needed one. Bungie has never used title updates to change gameplay design… they’ve used them to fix bugs, glitches, or issues where the game didn’t perform the way they wanted it to.

I’m not saying that bungie thinks Reach is perfect, but there is a cutoff point where a developer needs to decide “do we continue to tweak what we’ve already released, or do we move on”. Nothing in Reach was objectively broken. All the complaints are purley subjective.

I do agree with you that Bungie has done a fantastic job with the playlists so far. I’m sure 343 will do well when they take over too.

> Bungie never had the ability to make title updates so all they can change are gametypes, it’s not that they’re ignoring it, it’s just that they can’t change it. Although I must commend Jermiah’s effort for matchmaking. I’ll be honest, I’m not sure if 343 can do as good with matchmaking as Jermiah has.

I don’t understand how a developer can’t make a title update (I’m being serious please explain this).
It is to my understanding that Bungie is very adamant about the game they made and are not going to change anything major for any reason. A couple bugs, glitches and tweaking sure but nothing like the community is asking for.
IMHO I don’t think Jeremiah is actually quite capable of his job. Don’t get me wrong I couldn’t do nearly as much or better and i’m glad that he is very passionate about it. However everyone should know that the biggest contributor to Jeremiah’s (or any developer for matter) work is the game play data which is misleading because people do what works whether they actually agree with it or not.

> > Hitscan > Bullet Travel
> > Halo 3 Melee > Halo Reach Melee
> > Bleed Through > Reach
> > Static Aim > Bloom
>
> This is how every real Halo veteran thinks.
>
> Reach = Fixing what wasn’t broken.
>
> Just reminding you guys why:
> Hitscan = Better than Bullet Travel, less blood shots on laggy conditions, but if the netcode is amazing, then bullet travel is welcome.
> Halo CE/2/3 Melee Bleed Through = The players with the most health would always win a simultaneous beat down (H3 patched melee system), no kill trading, promoted more shooting.
> Static Reticles (For precision weapons) = Promotes faster gameplay, the player with better aim wins, no luck factor, less frustraiting, looks better <3.
> It’d be pretty cool if grenades wouldn’t bleed through shields, not for plasmas, because they have always been considered powerful grenades that you get from the map.
>
> Or then 343i could just make a new game with the things I mentioned above.

ALL of this.

The only way that Projectile based precision weapons can work in a Halo game is if Dedicated Servers are added. Otherwise hitscan is and always will remain the BEST option for balanced and competitive Halo.

Honestly 343, KEEP Hitscan, and then add dedicated servers on top of it! The next Halo would be amazing…

> http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=31451
>
>
> > Forums are a slightly different story. I’ve been threatening Frankie with a plan to pump the raging river of Reach posts directly into the gentle waters of halo.xbox.com.
>
>
>
> > That’s it for this week’s update. In fact, that’s it for this and the next two Friday’s worth. My travels will take me far away from this weekly affair, and sadly there’s no one else to sit in my filthy chair and make words for your reading pleasure. I’ll be with you in spirit, though. We’re going to get through this. Together.
> >
> > Talk to you soon. Ish.

By threat, does Urk mean he wants to make Frankie aware that the community wants fixes to Reach?

GEE THAT SURE WOULD BE NICE!!!

Win over you community 343i, before you make the next Halo. Its just good business…

> > http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=31451
> >
> >
> > > Forums are a slightly different story. I’ve been threatening Frankie with a plan to pump the raging river of Reach posts directly into the gentle waters of halo.xbox.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > > That’s it for this week’s update. In fact, that’s it for this and the next two Friday’s worth. My travels will take me far away from this weekly affair, and sadly there’s no one else to sit in my filthy chair and make words for your reading pleasure. I’ll be with you in spirit, though. We’re going to get through this. Together.
> > >
> > > Talk to you soon. Ish.
>
> By threat, does Urk mean he wants to make Frankie aware that the community wants fixes to Reach?
>
> GEE THAT SURE WOULD BE NICE!!!
>
> Win over you community 343i, before you make the next Halo. Its just good business…

I think this song sums up Bungie’s feelings very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6b3V2MNxQ

I can only say; I never forget my towel and you’re welcome.