Title Update Discussion

> > I sincerely hope that 343i will continue to listen to its community, and make some adjustments in the game. As for seeing bloom and armor lock changes, I highly doubt it. If changes are made, I suspect they will be more subtle than simply wiping them out.
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> all we really need is small changes. i’d much prefer they kept bloom in, and only made it so spamming NEVER WINS, NOT EVEN ONCE out of 100 times. that, and take off 3 seconds of the duration of armor lock and the game would be 10x better IMO.
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> > The bloom is soft coded in the game as a variable so all they have to do is change the variable in a given gametype to make it tighter or looser; and no it’s not hard, it’s as easy as changing a 1 to a 3 because thats what it is. Bungie announced that Playlist support will be all 343, so my guess is Bungie doesn’t want to mess anything else up for 343 to fix. This my opinion but I’m glad cause I think Jeremiah doesn’t have his head right.
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> you sure its that easy? how do you know this is true?

343i please fix the game! We all know the subtle changes that we need to make Reach find its truest potential. I can wait till HaloFest for the announcement of the Title Update but you better do it then! The community has been kicking and screaming for way too long.

> > Well, despite the arguing it’s pretty easy to see that developers are trying to get the fixed mindset crowd into gaming more. Both Reach and Black Ops are prime examples in the first wave of what will most likely be many more games to come. With Reach’s Cr system it can allow a terrible player to at least feel progress (whether or not it’s a fact) and Black Ops does the same with cash to buy weapons. However these are both deturents for the growth mindset because there is no failure, only menial success. Goals are still achieved, just not as quickly.
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> CoD’s leveling system and Reach’s cRs system has little to do with growth or fixed mindset people. You don’t motivate players who are testing or expanding their skills with promises of pixels. In short, a growth-minded person views failure as a need to continue to learning where a fixed-minded person believes we are already where we deserve to be. Neither 2 has to do with being competitive.
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> A growth minded player will loose a game or encounter and think of how to better themselves because of it. A fixed minded player will loose a game or encounter and claim because it is because skill levels are different or its the game’s fault (or team’s).
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> But you are right about 1 thing. Developers don’t want to loose fixed minded players. It’s just difficult to progress a game further without leaving those people feeling left behind. All good things come to an end. If you cannot embrace the cycle, you get lost in it.
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> I don’t like regurgitating what has already been said so I have but I’ll bring attention to this one
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> > growth mindset people dont die to armor lockers, they just walk away because they know if they try to fight them, they will probably die to the armor lockers teammates (or if he expect the teammates to fight them, the armor locker can come out and get 1 or 2 shots into him, effectively making the teammate win).
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> Neither, a growth mindset person would judge the situation according to their experience and choose to engage or disengage from the Armour-Locking enemy.
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> … Fixed plans have we?

sure. a growth mindset person would judge the situation then decide whether or not to engage or disengage. the problem is, however, the VAST majority of the time (if the armor locker isnt horrible, and if the armor lockers team isnt horrible) it becomes disengage. because of this, the game effectively becomes

see person armor lock -> probably run away, or die.

and what growth mindset person who goes from playing halos 1, 2, and 3, to playing halo reach looks at armor lock and thinks “wow this is a lot of fun having to run away the vast majority of the time because the people i play against can press a single button and stay kinda next to their team”??

i’d say most growth mindset people actually like GROWTH in games, not downgraded mechanics lowering the skill gap across the board.

First off I lol at the AL bashing still going on! the game has been out for 8months, armor lock is staying. Just because you don’t take the time to figure how it works or to counter it doesn’t make it a bug in the system that needs to be fixed! They’ve taken it out of almost every playlist already.

Ok but on a more serious note! Love the game but it could be so much better and half this crying about DMR battles, well Ive never lost one due to spamming but, have lost plenty due to laggy connections (let me straighten up what lag is, any delay in game play what soever, doesn’t mean ppl are hopping and skipping around the map, anything from late grenade throws to hit recognition being off and seeing it a second later!) This happens to me on an avg of almost every other host(sometimes multiple hosts per game!! love the black screen of death, not). So many of the complaints in this forum could be fixed just by cleaning up the connections. Not sure if that means they need to go dedicated or what, but something needs to be done ASAP and then ask what other bugs are.

Summary,
Great game with small bugs that are being amplified by horrible network connections!

> First off I lol at the AL bashing still going on! the game has been out for 8months, armor lock is staying. Just because you don’t take the time to figure how it works or to counter it doesn’t make it a bug in the system that needs to be fixed! They’ve taken it out of almost every playlist already.
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> Ok but on a more serious note! Love the game but it could be so much better and half this crying about DMR battles, well Ive never lost one due to spamming but, have lost plenty due to laggy connections (let me straighten up what lag is, any delay in game play what soever, doesn’t mean ppl are hopping and skipping around the map, anything from late grenade throws to hit recognition being off and seeing it a second later!) This happens to me on an avg of almost every other host(sometimes multiple hosts per game!! love the black screen of death, not). So many of the complaints in this forum could be fixed just by cleaning up the connections. Not sure if that means they need to go dedicated or what, but something needs to be done ASAP and then ask what other bugs are.
>
> Summary,
> Great game with small bugs that are being amplified by horrible network connections!

first of all, people bash armor lock because its blatantly overpowered. its not even remotely close to being debatable either. the reason you dont think its blatantly overpowered is because you probably play in low skill-tier games where people dont stay next to their team, and arent fast enough to press a single button when a grenade is thrown at them, or a rocket is shot at them, or are terrible at the unbeatable melee tricks you can do with armor lock against people using anything but armor lock and evade. also, how, exactly, does one counter against invincibility? literally the ONLY thing you can do to an armor locker in a higher skill-tier game is headshot them with a sniper rifle. not only is armor lock blatantly overpowered, at higher levels of play it is literally a +80% survival rate button provided that the armor locker stays… kinda… next to his team, and doesnt have teammates who are horrible at the game. not only that, it forces good players, the vast majority of the time, to just turn around and walk away from people who press a single button because if they stay, they will get killed by their even semi-competent teammates.

blatantly overpowered. not even close to being balanced.

secondly, if you arent noticing when spamming beats you, you are oblivious as to what is going on in the game. not only does spamming win vs perfect cadence and flawless aim, it happens FREQUENTLY. also, when the game is played on LAN the DMR’s algorithm is still bad. sure it sucks when games are laggy, but even in perfect conditions (LAN) the game is still garbage from a competitive persons point of view because the person who shoots better in 1v1 DMR-only battles doesnt win 100% of the time, and there is LITERALLY NO REASON (not a single one. no really, not one.) for it to be like that because it isnt better that way in any way, shape, or form. not only that, spamming doesnt benefit a SINGLE one of the average halo players in halo reach in 1v1 DMR-only battles.

people complain because those 2 things are broken. where there is a smoke there is a fire. while this may not be true 100% of the time with halo complaints, these 2 things are literally not even close to being debatable when you are looking at higher levels of play because they are just flat out broken.

If everyone here has such a huge problem with Reach please stop playing it, the rest of us will appreciate the peace and quiet as we play our game without hearing, “OMG that guy used hologram what a noob” or “What the $%&# that guy is in armor lock this game is soooo dumb”.

Sincerely
Everyone who actually likes the game

P.S.
343 do not listen to the people on this forum if you want to know what people actually think about the game go into the game and talk to the people who play it not the people who sit on these forums and complain about it.

> If everyone here has such a huge problem with Reach please stop playing it, the rest of us will appreciate the peace and quiet as we play our game without hearing, “OMG that guy used hologram what a noob” or “What the $%&# that guy is in armor lock this game is soooo dumb”.
>
> Sincerely
> Everyone who actually likes the game
>
> P.S.
> 343 do not listen to the people on this forum if you want to know what people actually think about the game go into the game and talk to the people who play it not the people who sit on these forums and complain about it.

ya its clearly more optimal to listen to the people who like everything about the game and are incapable of seeing even the obvious flaws that it has.

i see the bungie kids are finally starting to migrate over here.

hey buddy, who does spamming benefit in 1v1 DMR only battles?

do you enjoy watching an armor locker for 5 seconds just to get killed by his teammate?

do you enjoy getting beat when you land your shots and someone just mashes his R trigger? (are you even observant enough to see when this happens?)

why is it better for the DMR to let the person who shoots worse (spamming) win even one time out of 100 1v1 DMR-only battles?

its cute that you like the game, but for those of us with a long history of playing halo at a even mildly competitive level, reach is nothing short of a joke.

things like mini nuke grenades, the horrible no-bleed system, the failed DMR algorithm, and armor lock being blatantly overpowered are wildly accepted by competitive people as BAD mechanics.

*This post has been edited by a moderator. Please treat all forum members with courtesy and respect.

> things like mini nuke grenades, the horrible no-bleed system, the failed DMR algorithm, and armor lock being blatantly overpowered are wildly accepted by competitive people as BAD mechanics.[

MW2 was removed from MLG. Reach and Black OPS are featured FPSs in MLG.

> > things like mini nuke grenades, the horrible no-bleed system, the failed DMR algorithm, and armor lock being blatantly overpowered are wildly accepted by competitive people as BAD mechanics.[
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> MW2 was removed from MLG. Reach and Black OPS are featured FPSs in MLG. It doesn’t take a genius…

also took out halo 3. MLG uses the current game of the series for the competitive games. it has always been like that. what, exactly, are you trying to prove?

you come up with an answer to my questions that decimate your logic yet?

> first off i play big team and I’m a team player.

what is the relevance in telling me you play big team and are a team player? what does that have to do with anything? lol

> Not one of these lil kids like yourself who feels the need to take all the kills and complain about everything they dont understand!

not sure what you dont think i understand. care to elaborate? the things ive been saying are
-spamming beats pacing, even if the cadence is flawless, and the aiming is perfect, and it makes absolutely no sense for it to. 2 things here:
1.) not a single person benefits from the DMR letting spamming win even 1 time out of 100 (spamming wins a LOT more than that), in 1v1 DMR-only battles with no outside factors. you could ponder for days, but you will never be able to come up with a single person that benefits (do try tho, if you really feel like trying to argue the main point that decimates your logic, along with any other person who disagrees logic, to the core).

and

2.) there isnt a single reason why its better to let the person who shoots worse win 1v1 DMR-only encounters. again, you could ponder for days, but you will never be able to come up with a non-laughable reason why its BETTER this way (do try tho, if you really feel like trying to argue the main point that decimates your logic, along with any other person who disagrees logic, to the core)

-no bleed melees factually remove the viability of shooting from some close combat situations involving at least 1 melee.
-grenades are incredibly powerful, and damn near impossible to dodge.
-armor lock is blatantly overpowered.
-jet pack completely devastates the word ‘map control’, effectively taking the entire concept out of any gametype it is featured in.

> its in the game learn how to use it and how to work against it! Its there and you cant learn how to use it so you fail in the competition!

it is a game. its also a game that ive been playing for over a third of my life, RELIGIOUSLY, and competitively too. not only can i hands down say that i know what im talking about more than you do about this game, i can tell you i know more than you know about every single other halo game also (not halo wars, i dont play that). the problem is that i HAVE learned. i catch on to new halo mechanics very fast, how to use them to the fullest, and how to be an incredible asset to my team every single game i play. im a team player as well. my role for the team is usually main slayer (i play objective mostly), but i do it in such a way that it enables my team to play the objective. when i wipe their team, i am also known to grab the flag and run with it because i strive to win 100% of the time. every single time i die i think to myself “how could i do this better, how could i approach this situation differently so i come out ahead next time, instead of dying”. in halo reach this has led me to the following conclusions:

1.) even tho i am better at shooting, 1v1 DMR battles are not reliable in that the person who flails around and mashes the R trigger can beat me, even if i get the first shot, and follow up with flawless cadence and perfect accuracy (which is pathetic, and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and literally could not be any less intuitive for an FPS game to function in this way). in previous games it has always been:

shoot better -> win the 1v1 battle with between me and another player both using our primary weapon spawns only (person who shoots better wins 100% of the time)

currently it is

shoot better -> win the 1v1 DMR-only battle between me and another player, unless he is spamming, then god knows who will win.

also, spamming till you get the first 4 hits is actually OPTIMAL at the majority of the encounters in 4v4 gametypes, effectively making every single DMR-only battle a COIN FLIP as to which player can get lucky with their shots and land 4 before the other person can get lucky and land his 4, then follow up with a headshot. halo has always been about shooting skill (on top of everything else), and now, that skill is thrown out the window.

FLAWLESS at shooting? TOO BAD! SPAM SPAM SPAM

2.) even tho i am better at throwing grenades than most people, grenades are not even the slightest bit hard to throw in halo reach, when compared to every other halo game. not only that, they are also damn near impossible to dodge. because of this you have ~5 choices (ive probably forgot some, but this gives you a good idea of how -Yoink!- it makes the game play) to help you survive these mini nukes and never die from them (or die very few times to them):

-use armor lock (and feel slimy and gross for using such a blatantly overpowered armor ability)
-use evade (this one i dont mind :D)
-stand in the most random, sporadic spots on the map that people will never be able to grenade from where they are in relation to where you are (hiding lol.)
-be constantly aware of every single time someone on the other team dies, be able to predict EVERY SINGLE PLACE they could possibly spawn, and put yourself in places that you can still shoot them, but they cannot throw mini nukes back at you.
-kill the person before he can look at you (because people can throw grenades as they are dying with ease in halo)

its not that im getting killed by grenades in halo. that happens all the time in every halo game. the difference here is, they are MINI NUKES than any mediocre kid can toss and they are damn-near impossible to escape from. sorry but, especially at higher levels of play, halo reach is more like a first person grenadier than a first person shooter. not only are grenades your best option to kill people (if you dont have a power weapon), if you arent actively seeking them, scavenging the map for them, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG because they are INCREDIBLE.

3.) because of no bleed melees, i have to know the EXACT distance where my shooting isnt viable in situations where they sprint at me for the double melee. if i try to shoot someone and they are just 2 centimeters closer than the viable range, they will be able to melee me twice before i can pop their shields and melee them once with shooting. in halos 1, 2, and 3, the person who was more proficient at close quarters combat won the encounter. halo 3 was the best example of a melee system i’d say, it worked as follows:

player A and B damage each other then melee at the same time, the player who did more damage lived, while the other person died. pretty straightforward and intuitive dont you think?

in halo reach, it works as follows:
player A shoots at player B sprinting at him for the inevitable double melee kill.

if player A knows that shooting is viable he will then shoot at player B and melee him after his shields are popped, resulting in a kill.

if player A knows that shooting is NOT viable, he will NOT shoot at player B, and instead wait, doing nothing, till player B comes within melee range, at which point both players melee each other. after this, if player A is playing optimally, he will then jump backwards and headshot player B.

this is if player A knows the EXACT range that its viable, which is very hard to tell.

if player A does NOT know the EXACT range that it is viable it works as follows:

player A shoots at player B, waiting for his shields to pop so he can melee for a kill, only to get double meleed because it wasnt viable in that situation.

or

player A shoots at player B, waiting for his shields to pop, then melees for a kill because it WAS viable in that situation.

effectively making the ‘optimal’ way of playing if you dont know the exact number of centimeters where shooting isnt viable, to stand still and let the clown sprinting at you for the ‘double derp’ kill melee you, at which point you melee him, and jump backwards for a kill.

CLEARLY this way is roughly 20000000000x more convoluted than the halo 3 melee system was.

4.) armor lock is blatantly overpowered. because of this, the vast majority of the time it will be optimal (at higher levels of play where people actually have some semblance of an idea whats going on) to actually TURN AROUND, and RUN AWAY before his teammates kill you. basically what im saying is, with halo reach, ARMOR LOCK gives players the ability to get outplayed, then press A SINGLE BUTTON for a +80% survival rate provided that they dont have teammates who are horrible at the game, and that they… kinda… stuck next to their team.

you say the answer is ‘team work’ but what it the entire other team is using armor lock? team work might work against a SINGLE armor locker, but that person has a team using team work TOO.

armor lock is blatantly overpowered. it might not seem that powerful in the games that you play in, but thats probably because you were paired up with a bunch of bad kids who have no idea whats going on, and are (somehow) too slow to press the armor lock button before a grenade blew up, too fail to be able to use it to win every melee encounter against non armor locking, non evade using players, or too slow to be able to armor lock before a rocket / grenade launcher shot hits them. when you play in higher skill-tier games, its nothings short of BLATANTLY overpowered. notice how its not in arena? can you take a WILD GUESS as to WHY that is? i’ll give you the answer: ITS BLATANTLY OVERPOWERED, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING BALANCED. not only that, it also slows the game down to a HALT on a FREQUENT basis, effectively inducing rage in the majority of people every time it is used.

the list goes on, but i’ll end it there.

> now go play some more games then get on here and cry some more about how this game has ruined halo and u are so upset your goin to throw a tantrum.

i dont play it. times when i do play it are few and far between these days. when i do end up playing it, i dont have fun either. im hardly ‘throwing a tantrum’ lol. i just happen to be very passionate about halo, and very aware of how slap-in-the-face TERRIBLE the mechanics in this game really are.

> Its a good game! I enjoy it and sometimes I hate it

you hate parts of the game? you mean its not SUPERTURBOFUNTIMEZ 100% of the time? GHASP! thats awesome to hear. baby steps i guess. what parts of the game dont you like? what parts / times make you HATE it?

> You clearly are not good at halo cause if you were you woudlnt be crying all the time!

lol you should really compare the stats of the person you are calling bad before you call them bad.

hope you learned something :smiley:

MW2 was removed because of too many glitches, not because it is 1 year newer. MW2 was so broken, it could let you break into other games too.

There is no counter to invulnerability. Waiting is not a counter. When a player is in AL there is nothing you can do but let it go and hope his buddies don’t finish you. It is a crutch for new players or bad players. Nothing more.

I have to avoid my favorite playlist because of DMR bloom. That’s right I don’t play MLG or Arena because when two or more great players match up the game becomes a joke. I realize MLG still has this game and I watch the tourny’s but you know what. Its boring and slow just like the game plays. i feel like I have been given a handicap.

MLG has a lot of close to mid-range encounters and we all know how well the DMR functions there. It’s not even that I do bad in those playlist, was onyx every season except this one where I just stopped playing. I realized I have hit the skill ceiling. There is no going up. There is not magical a DMR cadence to master. After thousands of games I know that its just plain random. First I timed, then I spammed. Now I am back to timing. Do I lose to spammers? YES!!! but I have decided it was more frustrating having perfect aim and shots miss because of bloom than to do it right and lose to a spammer. O.O

I have found the only way to enjoy this game is to beat up on players in double team where trueskill creates great games for me :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Obligatory reminder to respect your fellow forum goers along with their opinions.

Forum rules and guidelines:

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Please 343i fix the DMR and Pistol bloom, I hate timing my shots and getting beaten by a person spamming the trigger, it’s frustraiting.

Also the melees, spriting for the double pummel is such a cheap tactic, if you’re good the only thing you can do is trade deaths, why not 75% melee damage as deafult, or then bringing melee bleedtrought back.

AL needs a nerf also, it’s annoying playing in condemned and having all those armor lock noobs camping in the space area armor locking to delay their death.

You know what? Forget fixing Reach. Just please don’t mess up Halo 4 by making random changes that hurt gameplay. I’d like for Halo 4 to be an actual Halo game.

MAEK TEH ARMER LOCK HAZ UNLIMITED TIMEZZ!!!

No seriously, I want Armor Lock OUT OF MATCHMAKING!
Also, I want more hiding spots! Like in Halo 3!
Now when you find an awesome hiding spot it’s all “Return to battle field! 10… 9… 8… 7… 6…”

> MW2 was removed because of too many glitches, not because it is 1 year newer. MW2 was so broken, it could let you break into other games too.

still fail to see your point, or why that is relevant.

At this point, I don’t think Reach can be fixed.

  1. Ranking system is unpopular and holds no meaning in the game as a whole.

  2. No motivation to win.

  3. Only motivation is cR, which leads to rampant boosting.

  4. Gameplay is unappealing to previous Halo players.

  5. All the reasons stated above have caused the game to have a bad stigma attached to it, and the drastic population drop has proven that the new direction Reach has taken has alienated and outright driven away many of the core fans of Halo, and has not made the game appealing to new players.

> At this point, I don’t think Reach can be fixed.
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> 1. Ranking system is unpopular and holds no meaning in the game as a whole.
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> 2. No motivation to win.
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> 3. Only motivation is cR, which leads to rampant boosting.
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> 4. Gameplay is unappealing to previous Halo players.
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> 5. All the reasons stated above have caused the game to have a bad stigma attached to it, and the drastic population drop has proven that the new direction Reach has taken has alienated and outright driven away many of the core fans of Halo, and has not made the game appealing to new players.

i find it kinda funny that this is the only halo game where you will see people afking in playlists for benefit. not only that, they arent even punished for it!

the game CAN be fixed, but it would take a LOT.

fix bloom, fix mini nukes, remove no-bleed, tweak every single armor ability, bring back 1-50 (or something that actually pairs up like-skilled people), and give cR bonuses for the team that wins. do those things and the game would be 1000000x better :smiley:

I’m hoping 343 will see this post as I’m assuming the TITLE UPDATE for Halo Reach (that Bungie mentioned may be implemented in 2011) will try to be brought together by the developers of 343 and come to life within the competitive life span of Halo Reach.

I’m a huge competitive Halo player (Whether it be MLG or Grifball) and the changes to the DMR and customization options have been an interesting topic I must say. For the best of the Halo Community I think it is safe to say there are hardly any cons for the community wanting a future Title Update for Halo Reach. Here are some of my personal ideas of what could be changed.
These changes/updates are going to be kept on a realistic and professional level as I’m well aware of how long the process can be and how difficult it is to implement new ideas then execute those thoughts into actions into the game. For a massive AAA title like the Halo franchise this isn’t a small task so, before I get ahead of myself I should be asking you the developers if this is even a subject matter that will be taken into consideration?

This thread is open to suggestion by any individual with a logical and reasonable Idea that you believe could be implemented in a title update. This thread will also hopefully leave an impact that strives to improves the quality of the game by multiple meanings. EXE: (Competitiveness,Game Mechanics,& Overall Fun Level)

Go for it guys/girls :slight_smile: I’ll add my ideas as well.